Keeping the "dirt" in-house & Harbaugh vs. Billick

[edreedfromtheu]

The Ravens have been praised for pretty much keeping any "issues" in-house and not airing stuff out to the media under Harbaugh.

They've painted a picture that everything is lovely because they have guys who "play like a Raven" and "The Raven Way."

Anyone else starting to get the same feeling that the lockerroom really wasn't all that cohesive, and there's a division just like Billick's last few years?

Maybe not necessarily offense vs. defense.... but players vs. coach?

It will be interesting to see what is said once everyone is settled on their new teams and rosters shake out. There might be an interesting back-story that could have been added to the recent relase of "Road to the Super Bowl 47: Baltimore Ravens" video.

For a team that just won the Super Bowl, it seems like some big-name guys couldn't wait to leave. I mean, some chased moeny, sure. Some had no choice because they were traded... like Boldin. But Ray Lewis made it clear he really has no intention of coming back. Reed really didn't seem like Baltimore is even an option. Pollard sounds like he knew it was coming and is anxious to get on a new team.

I've never agreed with Mike Preston, but a broken watch is right twice a day and I think he might have finally had one of those moments when he speculated what was going on with all the player movement out of Baltimore.

[EricH]

It doesn't bother me at all.
If Reed and Pollard are running because their egos are too large to buy into the TEAM concept so be it.
Without Ray being around who is going to keep these guys in check? Oh yeah, the team's head coach- Harbaugh.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1363283878' post='1396199']
The Ravens have been praised for pretty much keeping any "issues" in-house and not airing stuff out to the media under Harbaugh.

They've painted a picture that everything is lovely because they have guys who "play like a Raven" and "The Raven Way."

Anyone else starting to get the same feeling that the lockerroom really wasn't all that cohesive, and there's a division just like Billick's last few years?

Maybe not necessarily offense vs. defense.... but players vs. coach?

It will be interesting to see what is said once everyone is settled on their new teams and rosters shake out. There might be an interesting back-story that could have been added to the recent relase of "Road to the Super Bowl 47: Baltimore Ravens" video.

For a team that just won the Super Bowl, it seems like some big-name guys couldn't wait to leave. I mean, some chased moeny, sure. Some had no choice because they were traded... like Boldin. But Ray Lewis made it clear he really has no intention of coming back. Reed really didn't seem like Baltimore is even an option. Pollard sounds like he knew it was coming and is anxious to get on a new team.

I've never agreed with Mike Preston, but a broken watch is right twice a day and I think he might have finally had one of those moments when he speculated what was going on with all the player movement out of Baltimore.
[/quote]

Boldin - traded
Ellerbe - overpaid
Kruger - overpaid
Reed - probably will be overpaid for current production
Pollard - released

Who exactly couldn't wait to leave? Did I miss something? Are players tripping all over themselves to demand to be traded?

[The Raven]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1363283878' post='1396199']
The Ravens have been praised for pretty much keeping any "issues" in-house and not airing stuff out to the media under Harbaugh.

They've painted a picture that everything is lovely because they have guys who "play like a Raven" and "The Raven Way."

Anyone else starting to get the same feeling that the lockerroom really wasn't all that cohesive, and there's a division just like Billick's last few years?

Maybe not necessarily offense vs. defense.... but players vs. coach?

It will be interesting to see what is said once everyone is settled on their new teams and rosters shake out. There might be an interesting back-story that could have been added to the recent relase of "Road to the Super Bowl 47: Baltimore Ravens" video.

For a team that just won the Super Bowl, it seems like some big-name guys couldn't wait to leave. I mean, some chased moeny, sure. Some had no choice because they were traded... like Boldin. But Ray Lewis made it clear he really has no intention of coming back. Reed really didn't seem like Baltimore is even an option. Pollard sounds like he knew it was coming and is anxious to get on a new team.

I've never agreed with Mike Preston, but a broken watch is right twice a day and I think he might have finally had one of those moments when he speculated what was going on with all the player movement out of Baltimore.
[/quote]

You're only good support for this theory is Pollard being cut. Really? Did you use Ray for an example to support the players not liking Harbs? Yeah, he has no plans to come back. Because he's freaking 37 and he's accomplished everything he can possibly accomplish!!! It has nothing to do with a schism between the head coach and players! Reed is leaving for money. I thought that was obvious.

[H8R]

Harbs is the HEAD COACH. As much as everyone says Ozzie is driving the ship, HARBS keeps the guys in check during the season.. Ozzie is an off-season guy. Not every player is going to like their coach. Not to mention, Divas dont sit well in Baltimore.

Couldnt wait to leave>? LOL.. Either the players were cut/traded/unsigned.. That tells me the Ravens couldnt wit for THEM to leave...


Typical ERFTU garbage.

[MTRavensFan]

[quote name='EricH' timestamp='1363284105' post='1396205']
It doesn't bother me at all.
If Reed and Pollard are running because their egos are too large to buy into the TEAM concept so be it.
Without Ray being around who is going to keep these guys in check? Oh yeah, the team's head coach- Harbaugh.
[/quote]
Totally agree.
Harbs is great at putting a positive spin on almost everything.
There was an issue w/ Pollard that had nothing to do with his on-field production. Notice how no one's jumping to pick up him or Cary Williams? Hotheads cost your team dearly.

Lewis was going to retire no matter what. It was about promises he made to his kids, and if you don't believe that, you don't believe anything the man said he was about.

I understand the emotional connection to Reed, but the guy could NOT tackle. Maybe he was playing hurt, but YAC when he was covering killed us last year, and no way does he deserve the kind of money Houston's offering.
And NO ONE appreciated him trying to renegotiate his contract in the media. That was just embarrassing.

If this housecleaning really is about TEAM and character, I'm all for it.

[Tiz]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1363284240' post='1396209']


You're only good support for this theory is Pollard being cut. Really? Did you use Ray for an example to support the players not liking Harbs? Yeah, he has no plans to come back. Because he's freaking 37 and he's accomplished everything he can possibly accomplish!!! It has nothing to do with a schism between the head coach and players! Reed is leaving for money. I thought that was obvious.
[/quote]

Lol ray went out with a ring
After missing 10 games with an injury
Wasn't ultra effective in the Super Bowl
And his reason to not come back is because of harbaugh and not the 17 yrs he played or his decline in ability
Its harbaugh, the man he hugged and thanked repeatedly lol

[hawkprey]

How do you have locker room problems when you just won the Super Bowl?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1363285588' post='1396246']
How do you have locker room problems when you just won the Super Bowl?
[/quote]
The stuff that came out about Pollard is pretty bad...it's obvious that is why he was cut.

[GrimCoconut]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh my mind just blew up.

What the heck are you talking about here? Reed doesn't see Baltimore as an option? He said he loved it here and wanted to return. He said he would meet with Ozzie. He said he wants to play here.

How is all this forgotten?

I won't even address the rest of your post. That alone is mind-blowing.

[MTRavensFan]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1363285588' post='1396246']
How do you have locker room problems when you just won the Super Bowl?
[/quote]
It's not about how you handle success, it's about how you handle adversity. These incidents happened after losses.

There's a fine line between tolerance of healthy self-expression and letting the loudmouth bullies run the hennouse.
There's also a difference between leadership and being a megalomaniac control freak.

I think we're drawing that line right now.

[runamuk]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1363286021' post='1396258']
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh my mind just blew up.

What the heck are you talking about here? Reed doesn't see Baltimore as an option? He said he loved it here and wanted to return. He said he would meet with Ozzie. He said he wants to play here.

How is all this forgotten?

I won't even address the rest of your post. That alone is mind-blowing.
[/quote]quoted for truth wow lol

[jaege]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1363284174' post='1396208']
Boldin - traded
Ellerbe - overpaid
Kruger - overpaid
Reed - probably will be overpaid for current production
Pollard - released

Who exactly couldn't wait to leave? Did I miss something? Are players tripping all over themselves to demand to be traded?
[/quote]

I was going to say the same thing. Boldin said he fully expected to be a Ravens until retirement. Reed said much the same thing. He certainly wanted to come back. Pollard seemed as shocked as we all were about being cut. Lewis was hardly running to leave. I think the combination of his injury and his kids made the decision for him. I do not see the situation that the OP describes.

[Alexir]

Baltimore sun has become TMZ. Harbs runs a tight ship but he isn't a dictator...

[BMORElegacy]

It's funny how this guy disappeared when we started getting hot and eventually won the Super Bowl and now he's sticking his nose in things again now that he smells controversy.

And Ed is essentially gone if he's trying to get 6 million a year. That is being overpaid TO THE MAX.

[cushrinada1986]

[quote name='runamuk' timestamp='1363286532' post='1396270']
quoted for truth wow lol
[/quote]

I agree, players are just like actors when it comes to signing a new contract, everyones their best friend until the signing bonus gets signed for and then all the real dirt comes out about former players and teams. trust me, you wont know how Reed truly feels about Harbs and the Ravens until Houston gets him to sign on the dotted line.

[msufan]

Another thing was ray said there was a great lockerroom. Pollard got release and ppl are trying to figure out why. So there is a lot of spin. The ONLY true difference between this yr and the last few yrs is we won the SB. I'm glad our FO isn't acting differently than they have in previous yrs because this is the way to be a contender for yrs.

[cushrinada1986]

The thing is this, the team is going through a serious purging process. All the vets at can be replaced, are getting replaced, part of the business. The truth is that Ray Lewis was our generations Johnny U and no one else on that team, even Reed, would garner the respect or permission to end on the terms in which 52 could(dont think they would let Reed be in the V formation at the end of a game like they did Ray). That being said, I think the purge is coming due to multiple reasons:

1.) Ravens need cap space. Not just for this season but for the future and Ozzy is making sure he is only gonna pay top dollar to players that are gonna be core for this team in the next 3-4 years or so(Smith, Flacco, Rice, Ngata, etc). The ones that may not be in the foreseeable future or may become a potential locker room issue are usually shipped off or released(or reality bites that player in the but and they then get signed back to Baltimore at a reduced salary since nobody else wants them.)

2.)The Ravens are on schedule to make their team younger. The last 3 season the media has went on and on on how old the D is and how they need a infusion on youth, well media and ESPN, you are getting your wish. Ravens will not make their whole team 28 and younger but expect to have a more 1:4 ratio of vets/youngsters playing next year. This will not be too much of a surprise since all Ozzy really is trying to do is not make the same mistakes he made in 2001.

3.) Yeah, as a coach, you dont want players undermining your authority and since #52 wont be there to keep people in line, Harbs and OZ is making sure any negative vet presence is taken off the roster. Why end up like Marvin Lewis or Oakland or the Vikings when Moss was their(the first time) and have players kick you out due to bad play and bad discipline. Players respond to a strong coach who says its my way or FA and trust me, there are more guys that would want to stay and get that paycheck than test their chances on the market.

4. some of the guys you saw signed to big deals, dont be surprised if by 2 years into the deal, the media is mentioning how much of a overpay it was, even after hyping some of them up in the first place. remember Bart Scott and Adalious Thomas? Landry or that one corner that went to the Vikings(yeah I dont remember his name either), all those guys went elsewhere and their play stalled. Ozzy knows who to keep and what guys are just "system guys". dont be surprised if you see Kruger or Williams get exposed due to that same reason.

[wademan2636]

billick was fired due to a bunch of other circumstances

1. His playcalling led to a bunch of losses. He fired the O-Coordinator (i cant remember the guy's name) and started calling the plays himself. he was really bad at it.
2. He stuck with Kyle Boller too long and a lot of a coach's success rides on his QB. That's probably why Rex Ryan will get fired as soon as Sanchez leaves. Coaches ride their QBs and suffer from their failures.
3. He completely lost control of the locker room. He became incompetent at controlling his players and started to become a wimp.
4. He lost a bunch of ridiculous games. In Billick's last year, the Dolphins went 1-15. Their only win was against the Ravens. That's just embarassing. We lost a ton of easy games.
5. He always blamed everyone else for everything that happened and never took responsibility.

Overall, I think John Harbaugh is much more responsible and a much better leader. It will be interesting to see how the team functions without Ray Lewis, who functioned as a coach in the locker room and was responsible for keeping all the hotheads in check. It remains to be seen how Harbaugh will handle situations without Ray Lewis helping him. Ozzie is already trying to make it easier by getting rid of Pollard and Reed, 2 of the main troublemakers from last year. I hope we don't base our team on passiveness, but it looks like that might be the direction we're going in.

[PolishRifle]

Yeah, I am sure it was Lewis having issues with Harbs, that prompted him to leave as soon as possible. If that's the case, riddle me this! Why didn't he sign with a new team? Yeah, maybe the MLB, who played for [b]17 SEASONS,[/b] had injuries pilling up and had struggled this year and last year to make plays against younger competition understood, that it was time to retire and devote more time to (oh, I don't know) HIS FAMILY. Just a hunch though.
Oh, yeah and the rest of your post is garbage as well OP. Way to throw one of the most successful coaches in this league, who won the last SB btw, under the bus. You're a real fan buddy.I am sure as soon as those great players find new teams to play for, they will start talking alot of mess about their former coach, because when I think Reed, Boldin or Pollard I clearly think classless *sarcasm*.

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='wademan2636' timestamp='1363289163' post='1396327']
I hope we don't base our team on passiveness, but it looks like that might be the direction we're going in.
[/quote]

I don't really see a ton of passiveness in our younger players. Even Flacco who has the reputation of being quiet as gone multiple times out of his way to point out, that he thinks he's the best. Recently Torrey Smith has been very outspoken about repeating and so on. You have alot of confidence still in that locker room.
I just feel like this more of a "change of guard"-moment. That old defensive Ravens team lived and died with Ray Lewis. I don't see him as someone, who "helped" Harbaugh as coach, but as the heart and soul of that unit. The problem is, that this specific unit fell apart right before our eyes last season. The Ravens clearly want to build a team around the players, that played the biggest part in the Ravens ending up in the playoffs and eventually winning the SB and as much as people seem to hate admit that, this begins with our QB. The team will be build around the new rising offense, that the Ravens build up for so long and the couple defensive players, that still play an impactful role on the team.

[wademan2636]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1363290694' post='1396375']
I don't really see a ton of passiveness in our younger players. Even Flacco who has the reputation of being quiet as gone multiple times out of his way to point out, that he thinks he's the best. Recently Torrey Smith has been very outspoken about repeating and so on. You have alot of confidence still in that locker room.
I just feel like this more of a "change of guard"-moment. That old defensive Ravens team lived and died with Ray Lewis. I don't see him as someone, who "helped" Harbaugh as coach, but as the heart and soul of that unit. The problem is, that this specific unit fell apart right before our eyes last season. The Ravens clearly want to build a team around the players, that played the biggest part in the Ravens ending up in the playoffs and eventually winning the SB and as much as people seem to hate admit that, this begins with our QB. The team will be build around the new rising offense, that the Ravens build up for so long and the couple defensive players, that still play an impactful role on the team.
[/quote]

I agree with this. If a team is gonna rebuild, its better to go all in on the rebuilding process. If you keep a couple guys around and get rid of a couple guys, it really can't be considered rebuilding. We have a good QB and a good coach, and instead of building around the older guys, we're cleaning it out and building around the correct people: Flacco and Harbaugh. Plus, we'll get a ton of draft picks this year, so we're bound to find Geno Atkins, Navarro Bowman, Dashon Goldson, Eric Weddle, Antonio Brown, Adalius Thomas, or Jarrett Johnson somewhere in there, right? We'll find a way to cover the weaknesses, and we'll end up being younger, faster, and more prepared than ever.

Edit: I picked those guys because they were later round draft picks that ended up being very good players. If we have a bunch of later round picks, we're bound to find a diamond in the rough, just like those guys.

Edit again: Weddle was a 2nd rounder. I thought he was a 4th rounder, but I was wrong. but its still a later round.

[757RavensFan]

I honestly wonder how much of this revolved around the trade of Anquan. Everyone knew he wanted to retire a Raven and I'm wondering if that decision caused a [profanity deleted] storm amongst the players. It was shocking to everyone not that he was traded by how. And to now hear Q say that even on Friday after talking w/ Harbaugh they were gonna do what they could to keep him, I'm sure that didn't sit well. Just thinking of what transpired after Q's trade that caused all the other moves.

[757RavensFan]

I hear everybody saying we're rebuilding, but who rebuilds weeks after winning the Superbowl? I can see if we lost to the Colts in the 1st round, heck even if we lost in Denver, but right after you win the Superbowl? I guess everyone is lucky, b/c I say ride that horse as far as it will go. Meaning keep as many key players in place as possible to repeat or win multiple championships. When that formula falls apart and you fall way short of your goal, then yes rebuild. But rebuilding when you had a great nucleus already in place doesn't make sense to me.

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='wademan2636' timestamp='1363291542' post='1396409']
I agree with this. If a team is gonna rebuild, its better to go all in on the rebuilding process. If you keep a couple guys around and get rid of a couple guys, it really can't be considered rebuilding. We have a good QB and a good coach, and instead of building around the older guys, we're cleaning it out and building around the correct people: Flacco and Harbaugh. Plus, we'll get a ton of draft picks this year, so we're bound to find Geno Atkins, Navarro Bowman, Dashon Goldson, Eric Weddle, Antonio Brown, Adalius Thomas, or Jarrett Johnson somewhere in there, right? We'll find a way to cover the weaknesses, and we'll end up being younger, faster, and more prepared than ever.

Edit: I picked those guys because they were later round draft picks that ended up being very good players. If we have a bunch of later round picks, we're bound to find a diamond in the rough, just like those guys.

Edit again: Weddle was a 2nd rounder. I thought he was a 4th rounder, but I was wrong. but its still a later round.
[/quote]

I agree with the sentiment, even if I can't agree to call it "rebuilding".

Next season we still will have:

Joe Flacco
Ray Rice
Bernard Pierce
Torrey Smith
Dennis Pitta
Kelechi Osemele
Marshal Yanda
Terrell Suggs (How does the OP consider Pollard outspoken, but not Suggs?)
Haloti Ngata
Ladarius Webb
Cortney Upshaw
Corey Graham
Jacoby Jones

That's waaaaaaaaaay too much talent to consider our current moves "rebuilding". I see the Ravens actually avoiding a rebuilding phase by committing to the new importance of those pieces on the team early. This way we have a best shot of sustaining our current success of continuously getting to the playoffs (like Ozzie said in the "state of franchise" video).

[wademan2636]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1363292356' post='1396451']
I agree with the sentiment, even if I can't agree to call it "rebuilding".

Next season we still will have:

Joe Flacco
Ray Rice
Bernard Pierce
Torrey Smith
Dennis Pitta
Kelechi Osemele
Marshal Yanda
Terrell Suggs (How does the OP consider Pollard outspoken, but not Suggs?)
Haloti Ngata
Ladarius Webb
Cortney Upshaw
Corey Graham
Jacoby Jones

That's waaaaaaaaaay too much talent to consider our current moves "rebuilding". I see the Ravens actually avoiding a rebuilding phase by committing to the new importance of those pieces on the team early. This way we have a best shot of sustaining our current success of continuously getting to the playoffs (like Ozzie said in the "state of franchise" video).
[/quote]

The entire team was built around the defense for years and years. Maybe the offense isnt being rebuilt, but the defense certainly is. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed were the 2 best players at their respective positions for a decade. Now that they're both gone, along with a bunch of other starters, i would call that rebuilding. And after this season, suggs might be gone as well. I would call this a rebuilding effort, even if its only on defense.

Another term that could be used is "refocusing." We're overhauling the defense, but we're also putting the attention and focus on the offense. therefore, we're "refocusing." the offense is now the center of the team, which is a whole new idea for the ravens.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1363283878' post='1396199']
The Ravens have been praised for pretty much keeping any "issues" in-house and not airing stuff out to the media under Harbaugh.

They've painted a picture that everything is lovely because they have guys who "play like a Raven" and "The Raven Way."

Anyone else starting to get the same feeling that the lockerroom really wasn't all that cohesive, and there's a division just like Billick's last few years?

Maybe not necessarily offense vs. defense.... but players vs. coach?

It will be interesting to see what is said once everyone is settled on their new teams and rosters shake out. There might be an interesting back-story that could have been added to the recent relase of "Road to the Super Bowl 47: Baltimore Ravens" video.

For a team that just won the Super Bowl, it seems like some big-name guys couldn't wait to leave. I mean, some chased moeny, sure. Some had no choice because they were traded... like Boldin. But Ray Lewis made it clear he really has no intention of coming back. Reed really didn't seem like Baltimore is even an option. Pollard sounds like he knew it was coming and is anxious to get on a new team.

I've never agreed with Mike Preston, but a broken watch is right twice a day and I think he might have finally had one of those moments when he speculated what was going on with all the player movement out of Baltimore.
[/quote]

But.. I thought we'd never win a Super Bowl with Flacco or Harbaugh? Or maybe we should've listened to you and traded Ray Rice for a corner back 2 seasons ago?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1363292341' post='1396450']
I hear everybody saying we're rebuilding, but who rebuilds weeks after winning the Superbowl? I can see if we lost to the Colts in the 1st round, heck even if we lost in Denver, but right after you win the Superbowl? I guess everyone is lucky, b/c I say [b]ride that horse as far as it will go. Meaning keep as many key players in place as possible to repeat[/b] or win multiple championships. When that formula falls apart and you fall way short of your goal, then yes rebuild. But rebuilding when you had a great nucleus already in place doesn't make sense to me.
[/quote]


We tried to do that (Dilfer being the huge exception) after we won SB35. It was a disaster. They already made it clear they were not mortgaging the team piece by piece to do that in the season ending presser. In reality, we do this every year. It feels different because we won a SB, because Ray Lewis retired, because Ed Reed might be one of the FA to leave, but it really is exactly the same scenario we see every single year. That should give us some comfort because we put a competitive team on the field year after year.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1363292341' post='1396450']
I hear everybody saying we're rebuilding, but who rebuilds weeks after winning the Superbowl? I can see if we lost to the Colts in the 1st round, heck even if we lost in Denver, but right after you win the Superbowl? I guess everyone is lucky, b/c I say ride that horse as far as it will go. Meaning keep as many key players in place as possible to repeat or win multiple championships. When that formula falls apart and you fall way short of your goal, then yes rebuild. But rebuilding when you had a great nucleus already in place doesn't make sense to me.
[/quote]

I love how, just because we won the Super Bowl, there's now all this revisionist history on what type of team we had. Resilient? Yes. Talented? Definitely. Dominant? In no way, shape, or form. Guys played out of their minds trying to send Lewis off the right way, and even in this dismantling of the team no one has anything bad to say about the team. Guys love it here, and will continue to love it. The childish pot-stirring going on around here is hilarious.

Ray Lewis was a [i]liability[/i] in the Super Bowl. Bernard Pollard was a [i]liability [/i]in the Super Bowl. Kruger and Boldin were both cap nightmares that we couldn't afford. Not even Ellerbe thought a team would be as dumb as the Phins and offer him 7 million a year and he chased the money. There's no possible way we would have paid him like that. We're not "rebuilding" after a Super Bowl. We're rebuilding a defense that was 17th in the league and needed to be rebuilt. And in Ed Reed's case, smart GMs w[i]o[/i]uld always rather get rid of a player too soon than too early. Maybe one day Ed can come back to coach, but we aren't going to pay him anyway near the 6 million a year he wants so if he's dead set on that he's going to have to finish his career elsewhere.

Can't wait for the draft so we at least have something productive for folks to whine about.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1363284174' post='1396208']
Boldin - traded
Ellerbe - overpaid
Kruger - overpaid
Reed - probably will be overpaid for current production
Pollard - released

Who exactly couldn't wait to leave? Did I miss something? Are players tripping all over themselves to demand to be traded?
[/quote]
Seriously! There was not a single player you can look at and say they wanted out of Baltimore. I would leave Baltimore and walk to Miami for Ellerbe money. Pollard didn't have a choice in the matter, and Boldin did not want to leave, thats why we traded him.