Kruger & Ellerbe > Boldin Or Young and Brief Vs Old and Leadership

[BMORE_96]

Boldin is gone folks. Hasta luego. The ravens know that he is on the downswing and that the playoffs were an [i]aberration[/i]. Anquan has never been arizona anquan and will never be that again. So we should draft young and look foward to keeping young players.

Mods this thread is discussing the importance of younger players to older players who have done well in the past.

Boldin may be a leader and decorated receiver, but ellerbe and kruger would mean more to the team next year.

We have no mlb depth, and there is no one worth drafting in the first. So ellerbee would alleviate this and give us more production relatively than boldin would.

Something that is rarely talked about, due to fear and ruluctance, is terell suggs. He might not comeback full strength and could offer no pass rush. then you have upshaw, whose pass rushing is not the best part of his game. Kruger is the elite pass rusher and most productive according to pff, and is at least more deserving of 10 mill then terrell suggs, considering suggs was vastly overpaid this year.

We can draft a receiver at the bottom of the first or early second and replace boldin, while getting an elite linebacker or pass rusher may not be so easy.

Young players with promise provide more than older players. this is tried and true in the nfl.

"right player, right price"

[1/28/01]

I stopped at "Boldin is gone folks". Yet to be determined there.

[BMORE_96]

I dont the believe the fo signs him. It does not make sense because it handicaps our depth and us in free agency. And fo probably suggested severe pay cuts, so I dont foresee boldin returning. you guys predicted a pay cut or cut last year, why hesistation now after average regular seasons for the past 3 years.

And the thread is about keeping young vs old, not the boldin drama.

[gregreid5]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1362866191' post='1383058']
I stopped at "Boldin is gone folks". Yet to be determined there.
[/quote]

i read the whole thing I just disagree on every point. Kruger is a 3rd down player. People forget he sucked the first half of the year. Once Suggs came back, he didnt have to play 3 downs and he was a better player. You dont play a pass rush specialist who cant play on first down 10 million a year.

As for Ellerbe, I would like him back but people seem to forget he has durability issues and has only played 8 good games in his career. He had immaturity issues his first couple of years to boot. Ellerbe is a HUGE risk if we give him guaranteed money.

Out of all our FAs and all the guys who have been mentioned as potential cuts, Boldin is the most valuable.

Lets also not forget that Ozzie is an ELITE drafter of defensive talent and hes 1 for 50 on WRs (Torrey Smith).

[Moderator 3]

Seriously, might be premature to write the obit.

But on the premise of the thread, I believe teams need a mix of young and upcoming talent with experienced leadership. Think about it for a moment, Flacco and Rice are now 5 year vets. Maybe they are the ones to lead the offense. Torrey has 2 full years so he isn't a rookie anymore, either. We're woefully lacking at experienced LBs if we lose Ellerbe.

[Guest llwillow1231]

we can't field a team of all young players esp wide recievers unless we draft someone who can start and be productive right away . kruger is young but i do not see any smart team paying ten million to one player who plays a third of the snaps of an entire game. we need a mix to make things work . young players are good and the speed etc is wonderful but if they are not productive whats the point? the also need guidance or you have issues like other teams with arrest etc.

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1362866602' post='1383069']
Seriously, might be premature to write the obit.

But on the premise of the thread, I believe teams need a mix of young and upcoming talent with experienced leadership. Think about it for a moment, Flacco and Rice are now 5 year vets. Maybe they are the ones to lead the offense. Torrey has 2 full years so he isn't a rookie anymore, either. We're woefully lacking at experienced LBs if we lose Ellerbe.
[/quote]so much misinformation floating around

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362866593' post='1383068']
.

Lets also not forget that Ozzie is an ELITE drafter of defensive talent and hes 1 for 50 on WRs (Torrey Smith).
[/quote] and this scares me more then anything

[Bltravens]

But paying Kruger, who can't beat out Upshaw at LOLB to be a 3 down OLB, 10mil a year is smart?

[beasy2487]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1362866142' post='1383057']
Boldin is gone folks. Hasta luego. The ravens know that he is on the downswing and that the playoffs were an [i]aberration[/i]. Anquan has never been arizona anquan and will never be that again. So we should draft young and look foward to keeping young players.

Mods this thread is discussing the importance of younger players to older players who have done well in the past.

Boldin may be a leader and decorated receiver, but ellerbe and kruger would mean more to the team next year.

We have no mlb depth, and there is no one worth drafting in the first. So ellerbee would alleviate this and give us more production relatively than boldin would.

Something that is rarely talked about, due to fear and ruluctance, is terell suggs. He might not comeback full strength and could offer no pass rush. then you have upshaw, whose pass rushing is not the best part of his game. Kruger is the elite pass rusher and most productive according to pff, and is at least more deserving of 10 mill then terrell suggs, considering suggs was vastly overpaid this year.

We can draft a receiver at the bottom of the first or early second and replace boldin, while getting an elite linebacker or pass rusher may not be so easy.

Young players with promise provide more than older players. this is tried and true in the nfl.

"right player, right price"
[/quote]

[VitaminMawc]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1362867384' post='1383087']
But paying Kruger, who can't beat out Upshaw at LOLB to be a 3 down OLB, 10mil a year is smart?
[/quote]

Nope cya Kruger.

[Stephenjr]

Sorry, your dead wrong Adam Shefter reported that The Ravens have never even asked Q to take a pay cut or restructure his deal! Looks like you got punked!! LMAO

[Stephenjr]

[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362866593' post='1383068']
i read the whole thing I just disagree on every point. Kruger is a 3rd down player. People forget he sucked the first half of the year. Once Suggs came back, he didnt have to play 3 downs and he was a better player. You dont play a pass rush specialist who cant play on first down 10 million a year.

As for Ellerbe, I would like him back but people seem to forget he has durability issues and has only played 8 good games in his career. He had immaturity issues his first couple of years to boot. Ellerbe is a HUGE risk if we give him guaranteed money.

Out of all our FAs and all the guys who have been mentioned as potential cuts, Boldin is the most valuable.

Lets also not forget that Ozzie is an ELITE drafter of defensive talent and hes 1 for 50 on WRs (Torrey Smith).
[/quote]Preach it. I agree with every word written!!!!!

[Ravensuperfan1]

releasing Boldin would be an idiotic move. Without him a receiving corps would be mediocre at best. Torrey's still a deep threat but he'd just get doubled every-time Pitta's got good hands, and is a solid route runner. Jacoby is a number 3 receiver with mediocre hands. The rest of our receivers are mediocre or bad. Boldin is a top 10 receiver with the best hands in the league. He can catch anything thrown his way even in traffic. Not to mention his root running is superb. Ravens don't have a good track record of drafting recievers and it will be extremely hard to come close to replacing Boldin without overpaying. Boldin's got 3 more elite years left in him.

People complaining he is slow are overlooking what he begins to the table he is a savy vet, with Jerry Rice type speed. He's the perfect slot/possession receiver. Not to mention he can catch those deep balls, which Flacco lives off of. Without him and Torrey our offensive efficiency drops significantly.

Tandon Doss and Laquan Williams are just bad. Dickson gets a case of butterfingers now and than. David Reed should never start. Too soon to even evaluate Streeter

Kruger is already gone. Just be thankful for what he gave us he will be in a different uniform next season

I like Ellerbe, but lets not overhype him. See if he can keep it up. He lost some weight and showed a great deal of improvement this year, despite being injured. He's always had potential, but $20 million seems a little high for him. The numbers people are throwing around definitely looks like he will get overpaid. Our MLB corps will be stable if Jameel is healthy and Ellerbe comes back, but it won't be as solid as its been with Ray Lewis in his prime. If a top tier MLB fals to one of our picks I'd love for us to take one.

[runamuk]

[quote name='llwillow1231' timestamp='1362867241' post='1383083']
we can't field a team of all young players esp wide recievers unless we draft someone who can start and be productive right away . kruger is young but i do not see any smart team paying ten million to one player who plays a third of the snaps of an entire game. we need a mix to make things work . young players are good and the speed etc is wonderful but if they are not productive whats the point? the also need guidance or you have issues like other teams with arrest etc.
[/quote]
[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1362867384' post='1383087']
But paying Kruger, who can't beat out Upshaw at LOLB to be a 3 down OLB, 10mil a year is smart?
[/quote]EXACTLY !!!

[redlobster]

Regardless of whether boldin is back or not ( which I don't think he stays ) Kruger is not coming back . No way no how , he is asking more then is possible to afford .

[akacrow]

The Ravens must acquire starters at each position. If there is another player at WR in FA that can out perform Boldin, or perform as well as Boldin for less coin Boldin goes.

As of now I do not see that player, the players we have on the roster who may be able to be replaced reasonably, with a lower priced contract, would most likely be, Ellerbe, Leach and Jones.

[Ravensuperfan1]

[size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][quote name='akacrow' timestamp='1362869943' post='1383145']
The Ravens must acquire starters at each position. If there is another player at WR in FA that can out perform Boldin, or perform as well as Boldin for less coin Boldin goes.

As of now I do not see that player, the players we have on the roster who may be able to be replaced reasonably, with a lower priced contract, would most likely be, Ellerbe, Leach and Jones.
[/quote][/font][/size]

[size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif]there are no WR that can outperform Boldin for less money.[/font][/size]

[size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Johnny Knox[/b] and [b]Devin Hester[/b] aren't nearly as good. [b]Mike Walace[/b] is too expensive not to mention a former Steeler. [b]Greg Jennings[/b] and [b]Wes Welker[/b] are too expensive. Not to mention Jennings has lost a step. [/font][/size]


[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Danny Amendola- [/b]not that good[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Brandon Gibson[/b]- not that good[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]David Nelson[/b]- not that good [/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Emmanuel Sanders[/b]- we could do better[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Braylon Edwards[/b]- can't catch[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Randy Moss[/b]- still fast but thats it. Doesn't have a lot of fight left, can really only run fly routes and fads. Doesn't like going across the middle. Should probably retire.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]T.O.[/b]- just no[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Domenik Hixon[/b]- no[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif]Chad Johnson- never impressed me that much, and isn't worth it[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]

[cobrajet]

@BMORE_96.......You say "Young players with promise provide more than older players." Old or young has nothing to do with it. If a guy is playing at the high level Boldin is I have no problem with him playing out the last year of his contract. If his production is really dropping off then you may want to release the guy. Look at Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, by NFL standards they are old so to just blanketly say young player with promise is better makes no sense. Matt Cassell had promise when Brady, an older player was injured but I think the Patriots made the right move there. Also, if that were true we would have been better this year after releasing Redding plugging in Cody - NOT!

You say we can draft a player in the first round to replace Boldin. I point to the last receiver we drafted in the first round (Mark Clayton), who was a bust, as proof that that is false.

[flaccopoe]

I would like to see Kruger back, so that he can be given more time to develop. However, this might not be economically viable for BAL.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='Ravensuperfan1' timestamp='1362870771' post='1383165'] [size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][/font][/size] [size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif]there are no WR that can outperform Boldin for less money.[/font][/size] [size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Johnny Knox[/b] and [b]Devin Hester[/b] aren't nearly as good. [b]Mike Walace[/b] is too expensive not to mention a former Steeler. [b]Greg Jennings[/b] and [b]Wes Welker[/b] are too expensive. Not to mention Jennings has lost a step. [/font][/size] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Danny Amendola- [/b]not that good[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Brandon Gibson[/b]- not that good[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]David Nelson[/b]- not that good [/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Emmanuel Sanders[/b]- we could do better[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Braylon Edwards[/b]- can't catch[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Randy Moss[/b]- still fast but thats it. Doesn't have a lot of fight left, can really only run fly routes and fads. Doesn't like going across the middle. Should probably retire.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]T.O.[/b]- just no[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif][b]Domenik Hixon[/b]- no[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#292929][font=Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, Georgia, serif][size=4][size=5][font=tahoma, geneva, sans-serif]Chad Johnson- never impressed me that much, and isn't worth it[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [/quote]

Care to comment on the FA WR Thread?

[Ravensuperfan1]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1362871098' post='1383177']
Care to comment on the FA WR Thread?
[/quote]

lol I'll head over there, but I'm pretty sure we are keeping Boldin and don't see any FA WR's worth picking up to be honest given our salary cap situation.

[dhstandard]

Boldin isn't gone yet. This is how our FO works. They wait till the last second to pull the trigger so they can get the best deals.

Suggs came back from an Achilles tear in only 6 months which all has a full year befo[size=4]re guys can even play.[/size]

Who in their right mind pays a guy upwards of 10 million a season to play only on 3rd downs. Kruger will be overpaid.

[PurpleCityLights]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1362866191' post='1383058']
I stopped at "Boldin is gone folks". Yet to be determined there.
[/quote]


This

[BMORE_96]

People who say boldin has 3 "elite " years left.
Define elite:
Boldin has never topped 1000 yards and has had multiple games here where he has been shut out or rendered useless

People, if the fo drafts Hopkins , won't that be a suitable replacement. There is no way boldin would be here beyond this season anyway.

Players can decline abruptly, Troy polamalu chad ochocinco.

Young talent trumps old. Look at the pats. They might let go of welter who has produced more than boldin.

Can you guys please stop being so emotional about boldins clutch catches and think about how to create future success.

Like letting to of replaceable players like aging, slow wide receivers

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1362973839' post='1384752']
People who say boldin has 3 "elite " years left.
Define elite:
Boldin has never topped 1000 yards and has had multiple games here where he has been shut out or rendered useless

People, if the fo drafts Hopkins , won't that be a suitable replacement. There is no way boldin would be here beyond this season anyway.

Players can decline abruptly, Troy polamalu chad ochocinco.

Young talent trumps old. Look at the pats. They might let go of welter who has produced more than boldin.

Can you guys please stop being so emotional about boldins clutch catches and think about how to create future success.

Like letting to of replaceable players like aging, slow wide receivers
[/quote]i think what people are worried over is ..ok let boldin go but every single wide reciever we have "needs time to develop" well who do we use until they are done developing. last year tommy streeter on these forums was the second coming of calvin johnson ..... the reality was he wasn't ready ... i think thats the problem .

[BMORE_96]

But we have the draft to get a suitable replacement
And I have immense trust in our fo that they could have asked put cuts from a lot of people but asked boldin for a reason.

They must think he is overpaid and I will side with Ozzie.

But get back on young vs old discussion

[jdynamite]

I disagree with a couple points to begin, first point is that while Boldin could be cut on today if a pay cut agreement isn't reached ( since I haven't heard anything about an extension to lower his salary) I've never found it valid to compare what Boldin did as a Cardinal to his stats as Raven simply because of Cam Cameron and his inability to ever use Boldin in the slot or in motion to setup routes.
Secondly I disagree with that there are no ILB worthy of 1st round pick. We pick 32nd depending on how the top of the 1st round plays out ( I wouldn't have a problem Olgetree, Minter, A.Brown , or even Te'O fell to us in that order ) unless there is an even better overall prospect available to draft at that time.

I've never had a problem letting go of older players so that younger players can receive their chance to play and prove themselves.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1362866142' post='1383057']
Boldin is gone folks. Hasta luego. The ravens know that he is on the downswing and that the playoffs were an [i]aberration[/i]. Anquan has never been arizona anquan and will never be that again. So we should draft young and look foward to keeping young players.

Mods this thread is discussing the importance of younger players to older players who have done well in the past.

Boldin may be a leader and decorated receiver, but ellerbe and kruger would mean more to the team next year.

We have no mlb depth, and there is no one worth drafting in the first. So ellerbee would alleviate this and give us more production relatively than boldin would.

Something that is rarely talked about, due to fear and ruluctance, is terell suggs. He might not comeback full strength and could offer no pass rush. then you have upshaw, whose pass rushing is not the best part of his game. Kruger is the elite pass rusher and most productive according to pff, and is at least more deserving of 10 mill then terrell suggs, considering suggs was vastly overpaid this year.

We can draft a receiver at the bottom of the first or early second and replace boldin, while getting an elite linebacker or pass rusher may not be so easy.

Young players with promise provide more than older players. this is tried and true in the nfl.

"right player, right price"
[/quote]

You are completely right on here. Boldin is in the twilight of his career. Nobody wants to hear it, but having him on the field is a libability at times. He does a lot of little things that are important, but his lack of speed is a serious drawback. He just doesnt get open. Yeah, he makes great contested catches, but if he could actually get open maybe they wouldnt have to be contested. Maybe our offense will be better with younger, faster WRs on the field.

Kruger is an up and coming defender and one of the better pass-rushers from the OLB position. Sure, he was only a "situational player", but in that situation he excelled. 13.5 sacks in the regular season and playoffs to go with a lot of pressures? He also logged over 800 snaps, so he may have been off the field at times, but that is a lot of snaps for any defender. Suggs may not be the dominant player he was after the injuries and Kruger could be the future.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

surprise-surprise! we might get Kruger back [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/12/report-ravens-closing-in-on-deal-with-paul-kruger/"]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/12/report-ravens-closing-in-on-deal-with-paul-kruger/[/url]