Creating more cap space

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1362743721' post='1381335']
Just so I am clear.
We want some players to make less money so others can make more?

WAY too temping to make a political analogy out of this one...
[/quote]

re-structuring a contract doesn't necesarilly mean that players will get less money... just that the money they'll get is divided differently... more bonus than actual sallary so that the team gets a lower cap hit - sizzle and ngata could help here
then there's extensions where you actually give the players more money overall, but less per year - Q, jacoby and leach could fit here
less cap hit from some (established) players means more money we can give to others (the proven youngsters)

[jaege]

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1362745607' post='1381339']
re-structuring a contract doesn't necesarilly mean that players will get less money... just that the money they'll get is divided differently... more bonus than actual sallary so that the team gets a lower cap hit - sizzle and ngata could help here
then there's extensions where you actually give the players more money overall, but less per year - Q, jacoby and leach could fit here
less cap hit from some (established) players means more money we can give to others (the proven youngsters)
[/quote]

Sizzle possibly, but Ngata's contract is still pretty new. I am not sure of the parameters of his contract but I assume he is still in the lower cap hit of that contract and he would still have a lot of years left on it, so I am not sure how much savings could be gotten from him. I think it would be similar for Yanda and even more so for Webb, whose contratc is very new. I think the most lucrative time to restructure is nearer the end of a players contract when the "back-loading" rears its ugly head. Is there anyone else with a fat, older contract?

[PurpleCityLights]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1362681490' post='1380669']

No horrible idea. We don't need to restructure any deals. Losing players is inevitable.
[/quote]

^^^ This

[Bazooka Joe]

Personally the only player I want back is Ed Reed. Kruger, Ellerbe and Cary are replaceable. Why? Because those three stepped up to replace others we lost in prior years.

Amongst the 2013 draft picks, Nigel Carr, Josh Bynes, Adrian Hamilton, McAdoo, Jimmy Smith, Asa Jackson, Lardarius Webb, Courtney Upshaw, we'll be fine. We may even improve defensively.

Mark my words, Kruger, Cary Williams, and Ellerbe will be cap casualties within the next two offseasons with the overbloated contracts they'll get.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1362743721' post='1381335']
Just so I am clear.
We want some players to make less money so others can make more?

WAY too temping to make a political analogy out of this one...
[/quote]

LoL, nope.

I just don't think with remaining 11m cap salary we can't effectively replace the FA we will lose. We need more cap space. We have LT,FS,MLB, DE starting spot that needs to be filled. Even if you brang in just Ellerbe&Reed, we wouldnt have any cap to fill the rest of the starting line up.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1362745607' post='1381339']


re-structuring a contract doesn't necesarilly mean that players will get less money... just that the money they'll get is divided differently... more bonus than actual sallary so that the team gets a lower cap hit - sizzle and ngata could help here
then there's extensions where you actually give the players more money overall, but less per year - Q, jacoby and leach could fit here
less cap hit from some (established) players means more money we can give to others (the proven youngsters)
[/quote]

Thats what ive been trying to say. There's not alot of option left out for us. We either cut few top players, or think of something else.

[jaege]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1362762739' post='1381464']
Personally the only player I want back is Ed Reed. Kruger, Ellerbe and Cary are replaceable. Why? Because those three stepped up to replace others we lost in prior years.

Amongst the 2013 draft picks, Nigel Carr, Josh Bynes, Adrian Hamilton, McAdoo, Jimmy Smith, Asa Jackson, Lardarius Webb, Courtney Upshaw, we'll be fine. We may even improve defensively.

Mark my words, Kruger, Cary Williams, and Ellerbe will be cap casualties within the next two offseasons with the overbloated contracts they'll get.
[/quote]


I agree regarding Cary and to a lesser degree Krugar. We are deep at CB so we can afford to lose the hot headed Williams. Krugar's success, I think stems heavily from teams minding Suggs and Ngata so much, so another decent pass rusher should be able to do well in Krugars spot. Ellerbe is a bit more difficult. We do not have a lot of depth at LB, so he will be a bit tougher to replace. As far as Reed, for nostalgia's sake, I would like him to retire a Raven, and the loss of his leadership would be big. I would like to see him back. Not top of the list, but on the list.

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1362763645' post='1381481']



I agree regarding Cary and to a lesser degree Krugar. We are deep at CB so we can afford to lose the hot headed Williams. Krugar's success, I think stems heavily from teams minding Suggs and Ngata so much, so another decent pass rusher should be able to do well in Krugars spot. Ellerbe is a bit more difficult. We do not have a lot of depth at LB, so he will be a bit tougher to replace. As far as Reed, for nostalgia's sake, I would like him to retire a Raven, and the loss of his leadership would be big. I would like to see him back. Not top of the list, but on the list.
[/quote]

Okay but examine your point closer. You say Ellerbe is the one that leaves a big hole? Just last offseason Ellerbe was himself an unknown and many were done with him after his game against the Pats in 2011 AFCCG.

I think he can be replaced and even improved upon amongst the MLBs I listed plus any prospect from the draft.

MLB isn't the impact position it once was. Guys like Ray and Urlacher are dinosaurs. You can get by with speedy cover guys in the middle now.

I think all three of those can be replaced with what we have plus draft picks. And we'll be even better.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362763442' post='1381476']
LoL, nope.

I just don't think with remaining 11m cap salary we can't effectively replace the FA we will lose. We need more cap space. We have LT,FS,MLB, DE starting spot that needs to be filled. Even if you brang in just Ellerbe&Reed, we wouldnt have any cap to fill the rest of the starting line up.
[/quote]


What happened to next man up?

Kruger and Williams "replacements" in the starting lineup are already on the roster. We dont need to find replacements.
We have Courtney Upshaw and Corey Graham/Jimmy Smith already under contract so you dont need cap space to "fill those spots."

Resign Ellerbe and Reed and the only spot you mentioned left needing to be "filled" is LT. $11m is enough to bring brack McKinnie as well, it just depends on if all 3 accept a fair deal. You've got to remember, Joe's deal is $20mill/yr average, but the cap hit is only $6 mill, less than a third. With $11mill in cap space we could almost sign 2 more Joe's for this year. You can definitely work in 3 guys that will make around or less than $5mill/yr in average salary.

And we havent even accounted for filling positions via the draft! The guys who started for us last year are not the only ones who can play football, and bringing them back wouldnt guarantee another super bowl. Ozzie and co. will field the best possible team with the money they have to use, book it.


** and btw, Kruger isnt a starting DE, or a starting anything for that matter. Upshaw usually got the start at OLB. So losing Kruger isnt losing a starter. Also with Webb returning, Cary leaving shouldnt hurt. In fact the position overall should be upgraded without spending a dime extra

[jaege]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1362764440' post='1381491']
Okay but examine your point closer. You say Ellerbe is the one that leaves a big hole? Just last offseason Ellerbe was himself an unknown and many were done with him after his game against the Pats in 2011 AFCCG.

I think he can be replaced and even improved upon amongst the MLBs I listed plus any prospect from the draft.

MLB isn't the impact position it once was. Guys like Ray and Urlacher are dinosaurs. You can get by with speedy cover guys in the middle now.

I think all three of those can be replaced with what we have plus draft picks. And we'll be even better.
[/quote]


I am not completely disagreeing. In fact I do agree that we could very well find someone through the draft or in (what I think will be) a huge FA market. I just think that the potential replacement for the other two we have already seen play and proven that they can cover those positions. More so than an Ellerbe replacement. Not to say he is not already on the team just waiting for his chance. Could be.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1362692710' post='1380797']
[b]If you ask guys to take a pay cut for one bad season you only run the risk of a unhappy locker room. If they are willing to take a paycut, you can't be made if a guy ask to be paid big money off one good year.

Suggs wasn't asking for more money when he won DPOY so why ask him to take a paycut on a injured year? [/b]
[/quote]
This is all this thread needs to hear. You start asking guys to take pay cuts after 1 bad year, especially if its injury related like it was for Suggs and Webb and you better believe if Webb is All Pro the next year he's going to be knocking on the door asking for more money and then holding out for an entire year if he has to.

Alienating the locker room as the GM/Owner is a surefire way to [[i]upset[/i]] the players, have them perform poorly because they won't play all out or if they have a stubbed toe. FAs won't come here and then what? Baltimore is screwed.

[Purple_ICE 81]

Ozzie made it clear he doesnt want to restructure, I could see a paycut from Webb, Suggs, and maybe Ngata though. We are probably going to have to restructure Flacco bigtime 3 years from now when he is due nearly 30M for 1 season, so if we restructure guys now..it will be a messy cap situation in the future.

I see us cutting Anquan Boldin at first, extending Jacoby Jones 2-3 years, and also possibly cutting Vonta Leach. Then once we get our cap handled we can resign Anquan Boldin to a cap friendly 2 or 3 year deal. Boldin made it clear its Ravens or bust this season, so if he was on the FA market he would wait for the Ravens to resign him and if for some reason we have to move on from him...he will retire a Raven like he said. I see Boldin playing for us next year under a more suitable cap number.

[Bazooka Joe]

It's been explained that a restructure is not a pay cut. Why are folks insistent on calling it a pay cut?

[arnie_uk]

Maybe bcause the op wants theses players to take a flat out paycut. Not a restructure. That's why everyone is talking about paycuts

[rmw10]

Well, we just cut Bobbie Williams for a savings of $800K.

[Raven07]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1362777911' post='1381634']
Well, we just cut Bobbie Williams for a savings of $800K.
[/quote]
yea I just got a Notification saying we cut him, saving 800K

[Ravenseconbeast]

looks like Bobbie Williams is cut.

[Bazooka Joe]

Bobbie got his ring. I'm sure he's happy.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1362777911' post='1381634']
Well, we just cut Bobbie Williams for a savings of $800K.
[/quote]

doh you beat me to it

[rmw10]

[url="https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=RavensInsider"]RavensInsider[/url][color=#444444][font='lucida grande', lucida, tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][left] Ravens' new salary-cap figure after terminating Bobbie Williams' contract: $12.263 million available[/left][/size][/font][/color]

[McBurks]

Anyone else find rumors about Boldin getting cut?

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='McBurks' timestamp='1362779254' post='1381656']
Anyone else find rumors about Boldin getting cut?
[/quote]

oh gosh NO PLEASE

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='McBurks' timestamp='1362779254' post='1381656']
Anyone else find rumors about Boldin getting cut?
[/quote]link us to these rumours

[melvinmelon123]

I'm not sure what the dead money on the cap would be from cutting Boldin, but I could see a cut and resign situation where we give him a two or three year deal with a lower salary. Again, I'm not sure of what that would do to the cap.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='melvinmelon123' timestamp='1362779532' post='1381662']
I'm not sure what the dead money on the cap would be from cutting Boldin, but I could see a cut and resign situation where we give him a two or three year deal with a lower salary. Again, I'm not sure of what that would do to the cap.
[/quote]youd just extended hip. no point letting him hit the mkt

[Ravensuperfan1]

nooo Bobbie!!!!

[Raven07]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362779770' post='1381669']
youd just extended hip. no point letting him hit the mkt
[/quote]
no sense in cutting Boldin. none what so ever.from either aspect. Williams I could see since he only started 4 games , not including the 4 games throughout the playoffs.

[Brandon22]

we just cut Bobbie Williams now how about we Restructure Ngata, Webb, Suggs and a few others to help with more cap space

[rmw10]

[quote name='Brandon22' timestamp='1362783277' post='1381734']
we just cut Bobbie Williams now how about we Restructure Ngata, Webb, Suggs and a few others to help with more cap space
[/quote]

[bauer77]

[quote name='Ravensuperfan1' timestamp='1362782020' post='1381709']
nooo Bobbie!!!!
[/quote]

*says no one ever*