Creating more cap space

[Ravenseconbeast]

Here's an idea, how about trying to cut a small payroll from Ngata, Suggs & Webb? Like what few teams are doing atm?

All underperformed and all of them not necessarily making due of their mega-contracts whether it be b/c of injuries or just plain regression from wear&tear.

We still have to fill a big void in pass rush, safety, cb position whether it be from our own FA or players from FA outside our team @ march12.

It seems like alot of teams are in a tight squeeze to fill some void and players are willing to listen to their FO. Some players Corey Webster(CB) took a paycut of 7.5 to 4.5 after one bad season, Mick Vick reduced his, and Elvis Dumervil is being asked to reduce his salary from 12.5 to 9m. Some players of course were asked, but refused : James Harrison & Jermichael Finley.

Do we have a realistic chance of trying to get these guys to do that?

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362679391' post='1380648']
Here's an idea, how about trying to cut a small payroll from Ngata, Suggs & Webb? Like what few teams are doing atm?

All underperformed and all of them not necessarily making due of their mega-contracts whether it be b/c of injuries or just plain regression from wear&tear.

We still have to fill a big void in pass rush, safety, cb position whether it be from our own FA or players from FA outside our team @ march12.

It seems like alot of teams are in a tight squeeze to fill some void and players are willing to listen to their FO. Some players Corey Webster(CB) took a paycut of 7.5 to 4.5 after one bad season, Mick Vick reduced his, and Elvis Dumervil is being asked to reduce his salary from 12.5 to 9m. Some players of course were asked, but refused : James Harrison & Jermichael Finley.

Do we have a realistic chance of trying to get these guys to do that?
[/quote]
There was a risk of being cut, with those players you mentioned. That risk doesnt exist with any of the guys you mentioned.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1362679716' post='1380653']

There was a risk of being cut, with those players you mentioned. That risk doesnt exist with any of the guys you mentioned.
[/quote]

I don't think Elvis neccesarily warrants risk of getting cut w/ the production he garners for Broncos. Neither Vick with contract he had cashed in on. Vick couldve simply played hardball and force Eagles to cut him eating alot of dead money, but didnt happen. Corey Webster I agree couldve been cut, but he is still their #1 CB. You can argue Webster was a top 5 CB @ their SB year.

I think with Lardarius Webb, you must at least try to do something with him. Both his knees are banged up, and he has too much history w/ injuries. If he gets hurt again this season for a long length of time, i see him getting cut.

Anyway, its worth a try. Isn't it?

[FerrariFan87]

I think we should try and restructure Suggs and Ngata for sure... even if that means putting the money on the back-end of the deals as the new TV deals' revenue will kick in and, in turn, increase the salary cap substantially.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1362681099' post='1380666']
I think we should try and restructure Suggs and Ngata for sure... even if that means putting the money on the back-end of the deals as the new TV deals' revenue will kick in and, in turn, increase the salary cap substantially.
[/quote]
No horrible idea. We don't need to restructure any deals. Losing players is inevitable.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362680507' post='1380662']
I don't think Elvis neccesarily warrants risk of getting cut w/ the production he garners for Broncos. Neither Vick with contract he had cashed in on. Vick couldve simply played hardball and force Eagles to cut him eating alot of dead money, but didnt happen. Corey Webster I agree couldve been cut, but he is still their #1 CB. You can argue Webster was a top 5 CB @ their SB year.

I think with Lardarius Webb, you must at least try to do something with him. Both his knees are banged up, and he has too much history w/ injuries. If he gets hurt again this season for a long length of time, i see him getting cut.

Anyway, its worth a try. Isn't it?
[/quote]
The guys on our team have no reason to take a paycut. Suggs Ngata and Webb are all productive and earn their money. They could command that much on the open market

Everyone you listed is on the verge of being cut unless they take less. They agree to take less because in all liklihood they realize they will not be able to command their current salary on the open market.

Vick playing hard ball only results in him getting a Alex Smith/Matt Flynn esque deal so it hurts more than it helps.

Webster was garbage this year and you dont pay guys for what they did in the past. You pay them for what they are doing now.

Dumervil is a good player, but his production right now is not equaling his pay and if the Broncos think they can find similar production for less money, they will cut him and have looked at Freeney as a potential replacement.

[codizzle]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1362681099' post='1380666']
I think we should try and restructure Suggs and Ngata for sure... even if that means putting the money on the back-end of the deals as the new TV deals' revenue will kick in and, in turn, increase the salary cap substantially.
[/quote]
We'll need that space when flacco starts using up a ton of cap space...

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1362681884' post='1380672']

We'll need that space when flacco starts using up a ton of cap space...
[/quote]

Yup. Thats why paycut..not restrucuture.

[bMore Heathen]

The player has to agree to it. If your boss came to you and said "your a valuable member of our company, but we don't want to pay you the amount we agreed to." Would you?

[hawkprey]

Then: Here's the money you earned! Thanks for being one of our top players.

Now: Oh by the way, we're gonna pay you less this year so we can sign your backup.

Yeah that's great.

[Ravensfan23]

If you ask guys to take a pay cut for one bad season you only run the risk of a unhappy locker room. If they are willing to take a paycut, you can't be made if a guy ask to be paid big money off one good year.

Suggs wasn't asking for more money when he won DPOY so why ask him to take a paycut on a injured year? With the type of performance Boldin had in the playoffs he's probably worth more then 5M he'll make. However he understands the business and knows he'll probably be asked to take a paycut.

You have to understand the business and be willing to take the good with the bad on both ends.

[Brandon22]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362682059' post='1380673']
Yup. Thats why paycut..not restrucuture.
[/quote]or do it like this jacoby has 1 year 3.5 left right how about we extend him two more years so instead of him making 3.5 this year he will make 1 million for the first two then 1.5 for the last one

[rmw10]

[quote name='Brandon22' timestamp='1362693445' post='1380804']
or do it like this jacoby has 1 year 3.5 left right how about we extend him two more years so instead of him making 3.5 this year he will make 1 million for the first two then 1.5 for the last one
[/quote]

Why would he accept $3.5 million over 3 years when he can get that in 1 year?

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1362692710' post='1380797']
If you ask guys to take a pay cut for one bad season you only run the risk of a unhappy locker room. If they are willing to take a paycut, you can't be made if a guy ask to be paid big money off one good year.

Suggs wasn't asking for more money when he won DPOY so why ask him to take a paycut on a injured year? With the type of performance Boldin had in the playoffs he's probably worth more then 5M he'll make. However he understands the business and knows he'll probably be asked to take a paycut.

You have to understand the business and be willing to take the good with the bad on both ends.
[/quote]

That is a pretty good argument. I can agree w/ that.

But comming out of SB win, don't you think players will be willing to keep a few players of ours in order to keep the train moving?

I think we saw how dramatic losing few keys pieces can damage the team. Losing JJ, Redding really unloaded our run defense.

Losing Ellerbe, Kruger, Reed might even be lose. I dont think it hurts to ask/talk to the players, and have players understand the teams situation. Which isnt very bright considering we don't have anyone to replace those 3 guys @ our roster.

[mdrsharon]

Although the money is super important - I really believe that this team did so well because of the chemistry and the intangibles.
These guys want to be Ravens.
Maybe I am naive, but hearing how all these guys want to be a Raven for life - I believe them.

We have a superior front office, coaching staff and this is a class organization.
Not every NFL team can say that.
Those guys do not need to take a cut, they were injured.
Let's see what happens in 2013.

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1362705010' post='1381032']
Although the money is super important - I really believe that this team did so well because of the chemistry and the intangibles.
These guys want to be Ravens.
Maybe I am naive, but hearing how all these guys want to be a Raven for life - I believe them.

We have a superior front office, coaching staff and this is a class organization.
Not every NFL team can say that.
Those guys do not need to take a cut, they were injured.
Let's see what happens in 2013.
[/quote]the sad part the cap is not going to allow us to keep all these players without pay cuts or out right relasing some players.

[mdrsharon]

I believe in Ozzie , Harbs, and Steve B - the man with the purse strings.
They know what they are doing.

[runamuk]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1362705010' post='1381032']
Although the money is super important - I really believe that this team did so well because of the chemistry and the intangibles.
These guys want to be Ravens.
Maybe I am naive, but hearing how all these guys want to be a Raven for life - I believe them.

We have a superior front office, coaching staff and this is a class organization.
Not every NFL team can say that.
Those guys do not need to take a cut, they were injured.
Let's see what happens in 2013.
[/quote]there really is no way to keep everyone. kruger, williams, maybe ellerbe and reed if he's not cheap enough. unless some drastic cuts are made. we have tenders for the rfa, and we also have to pay the players we draft and we can't do all that with the ten million or so that's left. I agree that the team had great chemistry and played well but the team will not look the same next year . i think players love playing for the ravens because the front office is so good and have a "family type work place".i don't want to think about losing Jacoby or Q . here's hoping they can work some magic

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362679391' post='1380648']
Here's an idea, how about trying to cut a small payroll from Ngata, Suggs & Webb? Like what few teams are doing atm?

All underperformed and all of them not necessarily making due of their mega-contracts whether it be b/c of injuries or just plain regression from wear&tear.

We still have to fill a big void in pass rush, safety, cb position whether it be from our own FA or players from FA outside our team @ march12.

It seems like alot of teams are in a tight squeeze to fill some void and players are willing to listen to their FO. Some players Corey Webster(CB) took a paycut of 7.5 to 4.5 after one bad season, Mick Vick reduced his, and Elvis Dumervil is being asked to reduce his salary from 12.5 to 9m. Some players of course were asked, but refused : James Harrison & Jermichael Finley.

Do we have a realistic chance of trying to get these guys to do that?
[/quote]


In a word, NO. The Ravens don't do that on any grand scale and for good reason. Go check out the Steelers if you need to know why. You can pay now, or you can really pay later, but you will pay. I realize the lure of that cap jump is enticing, but what if it doesn't happen? Or happens two years later than expected? It really sucks to lose players, but back-loading a bunch of contracts will only put that off in the short term. Long term there will be losses anyway. Better to stay competitive and fiscally responsible. Spend the extra cap if and when it shows up.

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362682059' post='1380673']
Yup. Thats why paycut..not restrucuture.
[/quote]

Are you serious?!? Cut their pay? LOL. Now that's funny. That would be a fast way to clear up cap space as we wave goodbye to several key players.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1362679716' post='1380653']
There was a risk of being cut, with those players you mentioned. That risk doesnt exist with any of the guys you mentioned.
[/quote]

Exactly. The team has to be able to at least make a semi-credible threat that it's a pay cut or being cut.

With Ngata and Webb, it would actually cost them more to release then to have them on the team, so there's no way the team has any sort of leverage to force a paycut.

And, let's be clear, very few of the restructures that have been going on have actually included paycuts. There have been a few, but as you said, the risk of being cut and making less elsewhere has to be real for the player to even consider it.

[HoldingCall]

A pay cut for multiple top players is the best way to sap enthusiasm from the locker room. I am sure the Ravens will want to do that (sarcasm).

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362695571' post='1380833']


That is a pretty good argument. I can agree w/ that.

But comming out of SB win, don't you think players will be willing to keep a few players of ours in order to keep the train moving?

I think we saw how dramatic losing few keys pieces can damage the team. Losing JJ, Redding really unloaded our run defense.

Losing Ellerbe, Kruger, Reed might even be lose. I dont think it hurts to ask/talk to the players, and have players understand the teams situation. Which isnt very bright considering we don't have anyone to replace those 3 guys @ our roster.
[/quote]

The Ravens will have the money to pay Ellerbe and Reed fair deals. The issue will come if those guys want more. How can you ask someone to take less to give another guyy more? Now if the Ravens just didn't have the cap space then yea someboody would be asked to either take a pay cut or restructure. Look at Yanda last year, I think his restructuring allowed us to bring in Jones and/or Graham. So that's cool.

However you can't say hey Sizzle we want you to take 2M less and so we can give Elllerbe a extra 2M. Then if Ellerbe struggles with injuries or play, now you might have Suggs looking at you like hey you took food out of my families mouths to pay this guy? Next year I want that 2M back plus more. Its a fragile position to be in asking guys to take less.

Teams like Pittsburgh structure their rosters for 5yr runs it seems like. They'll give a lot of their stars big money around the same time and not care much about the cap. Then they'll basically ask guys to restructure and if they don't they cut them. The Ravens don't operate right like that. The Ravens offer fair market deals to everyone and slightly higher deals for key players. But they believe in their draft process and player development. So when it's time for a guy like Kruger to get paid, if he cost more then market value, you have Upshaw waiting. When it was time for AD to get paid, you had JJ waiting. You could cut Heap because you had Dickson and Pitta. If for whatever reason Rice slows down you have Peirce. That's just how they do.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362679391' post='1380648']
Here's an idea, how about trying to cut a small payroll from Ngata, Suggs & Webb? Like what few teams are doing atm?

All underperformed and all of them not necessarily making due of their mega-contracts whether it be b/c of injuries or just plain regression from wear&tear.

We still have to fill a big void in pass rush, safety, cb position whether it be from our own FA or players from FA outside our team @ march12.

It seems like alot of teams are in a tight squeeze to fill some void and players are willing to listen to their FO. Some players Corey Webster(CB) took a paycut of 7.5 to 4.5 after one bad season, Mick Vick reduced his, and Elvis Dumervil is being asked to reduce his salary from 12.5 to 9m. Some players of course were asked, but refused : James Harrison & Jermichael Finley.

Do we have a realistic chance of trying to get these guys to do that?
[/quote]
You have to be joking right? I know you guys were all injured last year, and played through pain to help us win a championship, but if you could go ahead and take a pay cut that would be great...

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1362712790' post='1381171']
In a word, NO. The Ravens don't do that on any grand scale and for good reason. Go check out the Steelers if you need to know why. You can pay now, or you can really pay later, but you will pay. I realize the lure of that cap jump is enticing, but what if it doesn't happen? Or happens two years later than expected? It really sucks to lose players, but back-loading a bunch of contracts will only put that off in the short term. Long term there will be losses anyway. Better to stay competitive and fiscally responsible. Spend the extra cap if and when it shows up.
[/quote]


[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1362713000' post='1381177']
Are you serious?!? Cut their pay? LOL. Now that's funny. That would be a fast way to clear up cap space as we wave goodbye to several key players.
[/quote]

Getting a paycut and restructuring a deal are two different things. You have them mixed up.

Instead of whining, and trolling.. i'd like your output on what you feel we need to do. We only have about 11m in cap space.

And we have Ellerbe, Reed, Kruger, Mckinnie all as FA. How do we replace/keep those guy with that kind of cap? I'd like your opinion, since my suggestion seems so outrageous, i'd love to hear yours.

[codizzle]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362721295' post='1381268']





Getting a paycut and restructuring a deal are two different things. You have them mixed up.

Instead of whining, and trolling.. i'd like your output on what you feel we need to do. We only have about 11m in cap space.

And we have Ellerbe, Reed, Kruger, Mckinnie all as FA. How do we replace/keep those guy with that kind of cap? I'd like your opinion, since my suggestion seems so outrageous, i'd love to hear yours.
[/quote]
We sign ellerbe and hope to/should be able to get reed back also

Kruger is gone. Easy as that.. Mckinnie could return if no one goes after him and we are able to get him cheap

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362721295' post='1381268']





Getting a paycut and restructuring a deal are two different things. You have them mixed up.

Instead of whining, and trolling.. i'd like your output on what you feel we need to do. We only have about 11m in cap space.

And we have Ellerbe, Reed, Kruger, Mckinnie all as FA. How do we replace/keep those guy with that kind of cap? I'd like your opinion, since my suggestion seems so outrageous, i'd love to hear yours.
[/quote]
We can't keep them all. That's a fact that we have to deal with. It's not like we are the only team facing these kinds of decisions, its part of the NFL.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362721295' post='1381268']





Getting a paycut and restructuring a deal are two different things. You have them mixed up.

Instead of whining, and trolling.. i'd like your output on what you feel we need to do. We only have about 11m in cap space.

And we have Ellerbe, Reed, Kruger, Mckinnie all as FA. How do we replace/keep those guy with that kind of cap? I'd like your opinion, since my suggestion seems so outrageous, i'd love to hear yours.
[/quote]Funny how its whining and trolling when its a thread you make... You do know that's what you've been doing the past two years or so in every flacco thread right?

You suggest a pay cut for those that have been injured to help sign our free agents, ok that's all well and good if it happens, but considering ellerbes injury history would it be wise to spend this money on him if this scenario happened? Same for ed reed who could retire at any given time? It's not like you'd be taking money of them and giving it to a Joe or rice who you know are durable and will be around, earning that money.

It could go to reed and ellerbe, ellerbe could miss maybe five games given his history and then reed could retire next off season. I think it wouldn't be wise to spend the money that way, if and a big if those players took pay cuts.

[K-Dog]

Just so I am clear.
We want some players to make less money so others can make more?

WAY too temping to make a political analogy out of this one...

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1362721295' post='1381268']
Getting a paycut and restructuring a deal are two different things. You have them mixed up.

Instead of whining, and trolling.. i'd like your output on what you feel we need to do. We only have about 11m in cap space.

And we have Ellerbe, Reed, Kruger, Mckinnie all as FA. How do we replace/keep those guy with that kind of cap? I'd like your opinion, since my suggestion seems so outrageous, i'd love to hear yours.
[/quote]


I am neither whining or trolling. I am laughing [u]with you[/u] because I have to assume you are not serious and were making a joke. Asking a player to take a paycut would be unprecedented. I do not think that has ever happened in the history of the NFL and I cannot see that it would go over very well.

If you are asking me what I think the Ravens will do with their limited cap space, my answer is they will do what they always do. Make fair market offers to the guys that they feel they can afford and let the others walk, regardless of how valuable they are. They will [u]not[/u] do a lot of risky budgeting manipulation or foolish maneuvering that will put the team in future turmoil. They will replace lost players via the draft and with sharp use of FA, looking for undervalued players at good prices.That is how this team was built.

Krugar is gone. Great player, he will be missed. He is gone. We all have to get past that. He is just too valuable a commodity and there are too many teams with no sense and lots of money out there. If Ellerbe wants what rumors say he wants, he is gone too. If he is reasonable and will take a fair market contract, then he stays. McKinnie is iffy, so I am not sure how the FO proceeds. I think we could afford to keep him, if they want to keep him. Reed is an enigma. He may stay for a box of popsicles, he may want the moon. Hard to tell with that guy. Keeping him will depend on what he wants. Boldin will be restructured to the good of the Ravens since he has already made it clear he is open to dealing.

That is what I think will happen. The cap is the cap and there is really little that the Ravens can do about it while staying true to their business model. Certainly we, as fans, can make all sorts of crazy suggestions and speculate into the wee hours, and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact it is sort of entertaining to try and guess, and read other peoples guesses. Although no one should be too put out if one of those crazy suggestions is not well received. Hint hint.