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gregreid5

Mock Pre-Draft Offseason

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[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]This is what my offseason would look like heading into the draft[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Vonta Leach- hes the best FB in the game but we just dont use a FB enough to warrant his salary. Saves us $3 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Sam Koch- Hes just not a good punter. Had a horrible playoffs and is paid like an all pro. Savings this year basically 0 when a replacement is factored in but we get him off the books for subsequent years when his salaries go up into the 3 million range and we will need future cap space.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Jameel McClain- This is predicated on resigning Ellerbe but McClain getting cut saves us 1.8 million and a cap hit next year. He just wasnt that good this year before his injury and hes making too much. 80/20 rule comes strongly into affect when you look at other options.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Bobbie Williams- Save 1.2 million for a guy who brings nothing for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Obviously a lot will depend on Flacco's contract numbers and cap hits but right now, those moves save us 6.7 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Resign[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ellerbe- After Flacco he is our most important guy. We lose Ray Lewis and Ellerbe played at a very high level last year. He scares me if we give us a lot of bonus[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ed Reed- We cannot afford to overpay but losing him and Lewis would hurt all at once. Reed is a savvy vet and is always in the head of the top QBs we would face in the offseason.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Bryant McKinnie- He looked great in the playoffs but character issues will scare teams away. I think a 1 yr 3 million deal with 1 million Bonus and the other 2 million guaranteed based on offseason workout arrangements and him showing up and going through training camp like everyone else with no problems.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Some Free Agents I like for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Shaun Phillips- a true 3-4 OLB who can still produce. Would be a good fit to replace upshaw on pass rushing downs and give us that 80/20 version of Kruger.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif'][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Terrance Knighton- Character issues make him someone who wont command much money but truth is the Jags dont have the vets or the wins to get through to someone like him. The structure of our organization and a tight leash might make him worth the risk. Sell him on one good year with us and hes a UFA again commanding actual money[/background][/size][/font][/color]
-7

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you had me going until you said to cut sam koch. if we're going by bad post-seasons, we might as well cut #27 while we're at it, right?
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Sam Koch cannot punt in cold weather (playoffs) and had a horrible playoffs. A punter is not worth 3 million a year regardless. There are UDFA punter's who will make 490K and can replace AT LEAST 80% of the production we get from Koch.

Suggs, Ngata, Flacco, Rice and Co. make entirely too much money to pay a punter 3 million dollars a year. Koch has a cap number around 3 million for 2014 and 2015.

EDIT: As for the cutting Ray Rice comment, Koch's salary would be the equivalent of Rice making 12 million a year when factoring in positional value. Rice is on an uncuttable, below market contract. Rice's cap hit would be higher if we cut him then if we keep him for the next 3 seasons because 2/3 of his contract is bonus money. Rice is also a bargain.

Koch is slated to be paid like a top 5 punter in the NFL. Not only is he not a top 5 punter, but the Ravens cannot afford to pay any punter 3 million a year. You think I want to cut Leach? He is the best FB in the NFL. We need to spend our money on DL, pass rushers and OL now that the skill players are set on offense and we have a good secondary (if Reed is resigned)
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362240841' post='1374964']
Sam Koch cannot punt in cold weather (playoffs) and had a horrible playoffs. A punter is not worth 3 million a year regardless. There are UDFA punter's who will make 490K and can replace AT LEAST 80% of the production we get from Koch.

Suggs, Ngata, Flacco, Rice and Co. make entirely too much money to pay a punter 3 million dollars a year. Koch has a cap number around 3 million for 2014 and 2015.

EDIT: As for the cutting Ray Rice comment, Koch's salary would be the equivalent of Rice making 12 million a year when factoring in positional value. Rice is on an uncuttable, below market contract. Rice's cap hit would be higher if we cut him then if we keep him for the next 3 seasons because 2/3 of his contract is bonus money. Rice is also a bargain.

Koch is slated to be paid like a top 5 punter in the NFL. Not only is he not a top 5 punter, but the Ravens cannot afford to pay any punter 3 million a year. You think I want to cut Leach? He is the best FB in the NFL. We need to spend our money on DL, pass rushers and OL now that the skill players are set on offense and we have a good secondary (if Reed is resigned)
[/quote]

from what I've read, koch is being paid 1.9 mil next year. yes, this might seem a bit excessive, but to cut him, of all people, just because he had a sub-par playoff is ludicrous. i agree that we have higher priorities, but to cut a PUNTER isn't entirely necessary. on another note, Sam is a tremendous all-around athlete. he kind of deserves the benefit of the doubt right now.
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1362241641' post='1374971']
from what I've read, koch is being paid 1.9 mil next year. yes, this might seem a bit excessive, but to cut him, of all
[/quote]

I dont Hate Sam Koch. Here is his contract

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/sam-koch/

Cutting him now saves us 700K and if we replace him with someone with Tucker's salary we get 220K savings this year. Doesnt seem like its in our best interests.

However, you need to look toward the future. Cap Hits of 2.8 million for 2014 and 3.1 million for 2015 will be replaced with 480K. Those giant savings in future years allow us to artificially lower a deal for someone like Ellerbe with a low cap number this year, letting the Koch savings help deflect a higher number in future years.

You cannot have a veteran at every position and when you have the highest paid QB in the NFL, punter is probably the first position that needs to get put on a minimum contract and real quick
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Cut Leach? Besides Flacco, he's arguably the best player on our offense, and one of the best FB's in the league. That doesn't make sense. Koch too? I just hope the FO doesn't listen to you.
-2

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I didn't read this yet, but this is the wrong place for this.

With that said, I don't think Sam Koch is assured a roster spot. He hasn't been as good these past two years. Not sure if it's age or what. I don't know if he's going to see himself cut, though. That might not be happening. But, I can definitely see us bring someone in to compete with him at the very least.
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[quote name='sliceanddic3' timestamp='1362242438' post='1374979']
Cut Leach? Besides Flacco, he's arguably the best player on our offense, and one of the best FB's in the league. That doesn't make sense. Koch too? I just hope the FO doesn't listen to you.
[/quote]

Your talking about paying a FB and a Punter a combined 6.8 million dollars. Would you rather cut Jacoby Jones? Boldin? Or would you rather let Ellerbe walk. The NFL is a salary cap league and we have the highest paid player in football playing QB for us. We also have Ngata and Suggs with averages in the 13 million/yr range for the duration of their contracts. Tough decisions need to be made. Leach played 25% of the snaps once Caldwell took over and Koch is a punter. I am a HUGE leach fan and acknowledge that hes the best FB in the NFL. Thats just a luxury we cannot afford at this point


[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1362243184' post='1374994']
I didn't read this yet, but this is the wrong place for this.

With that said, I don't think Sam Koch is assured a roster spot. He hasn't been as good these past two years. Not sure if it's age or what. I don't know if he's going to see himself cut, though. That might not be happening. But, I can definitely see us bring someone in to compete with him at the very least.
[/quote]

Possibility that he gets cut Cundiff style if they like the option in training camp just as much
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i mean, if some great punter stumbles along into TC and out-punts Koch, i have no issue with bringing a new guy in. however, to cut him solely for the purpose of saving money is a bit much.

as for leach, he is probably the best blocker on the entire team. rice running the ball with leach on the field vs him running without is a dramatic difference, and ray will own up to it, too. he's a solid run-blocker, a solid pass-blocker and has shown recently that he can catch the ball, too. while i agree that the FB is typically a useless position, in this team's case the FB plays a vital role.
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1362244233' post='1375006']
i mean, if some great punter stumbles along into TC and out-punts Koch, i have no issue with bringing a new guy in. however, to cut him solely for the purpose of saving money is a bit much.

as for leach, he is probably the best blocker on the entire team. rice running the ball with leach on the field vs him running without is a dramatic difference, and ray will own up to it, too. he's a solid run-blocker, a solid pass-blocker and has shown recently that he can catch the ball, too. while i agree that the FB is typically a useless position, in this team's case the FB plays a vital role.
[/quote]

If you look at the offense under caldwell, Leach played roughly 30% of the snaps. I expect us to open the offense up more under Flacco and use more 2 TE and 3 WR sets. Flacco looked much better in these situations last year.

I love Leach as a person and as a player. I just find it hard to say a player who played 30% of our snaps in the wins versus the Patriots and 49ers is considered vital. I dont want us to cut leach but I would say keeping Ellerbe, Boldin, Jacoby and locking up Pitta Long Term are all ahead of Leach. If we can do all of that then great but if not, then Leach is a casualty of us giving our QB 120 million and we will use very little IFORM and instead use the pass to set up the run moving forward
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362246834' post='1375039']


If you look at the offense under caldwell, Leach played roughly 30% of the snaps. I expect us to open the offense up more under Flacco and use more 2 TE and 3 WR sets. Flacco looked much better in these situations last year.

I love Leach as a person and as a player. I just find it hard to say a player who played 30% of our snaps in the wins versus the Patriots and 49ers is considered vital. I dont want us to cut leach but I would say keeping Ellerbe, Boldin, Jacoby and locking up Pitta Long Term are all ahead of Leach. If we can do all of that then great but if not, then Leach is a casualty of us giving our QB 120 million and we will use very little IFORM and instead use the pass to set up the run moving forward
[/quote]

if the ravens did cut leach, do you think they would replace him with some 350k salary college kid? i think that having a good FB is important for many reasons, but i also see that Vonta is a little too pricey for the short amount of game time he gets. either way, he's a playmaker who would be sorely missed, and unlike Koch he cant be replaced as easily. it would be a big blow to the team.

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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1362247059' post='1375043']
if the ravens did cut leach, do you think they would replace him with some 350k salary college kid? i think that having a good FB is important for many reasons, but i also see that Vonta is a little too pricey for the short amount of game time he gets. either way, he's a playmaker who would be sorely missed, and unlike Koch he cant be replaced as easily. it would be a big blow to the team.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you said. I think we replace him with a 350K guy and we would just not use the position. Patriots among other teams have just stopped really using the FB. We failed enough 3rd and 1s and 3rd and 2s running that we should probably throw on those anyway. I hope we find a replacement for leach but he has a big cap # for the amount of snaps he takes. If we can maybe extend boldin and keep leach this year the team would be better off though
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Oher is someone who could be extended as is leach. Both in final years of their deals, turn their big base salaries into bonuses and extended them 3 or 4 years reducing their cap hits. It's likely oher would be extended next off season anyway why not do it now
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1362249280' post='1375084']
Why does this look copy and pasted?
[/quote]

I wrote it on another website and copied it from there to discuss it here
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Arnie, my friend, Leach should stay. He has good hands out of the backfield and punishes people with his blocks. Koch has been with us since he was drafted in 2006. We can always bring in an UDFA punter to compete, but Koch is the man for the next 3 or 4 years. Now, extending Reed, Oher, Leach, Jones, and Boldin sound like a good idea. How about restructuring Suggs and Ngata while we are at it? I predict that McKinnie will be back. He earned his contract in the playoffs. Let's get Ellerbe signed soon. I don't mind letting Kruger and Williams test the market. We can always pick up their replacements in the draft.
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362250681' post='1375097']
I wrote it on another website and copied it from there to discuss it here
[/quote]

As long as it's YOUR work.
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1362252652' post='1375134']
As long as it's YOUR work.
[/quote]

with that terrible writing style and word structure its clearly not written by someone who writes for a living but I get the point you guys are trying to make. Definitely dont want plagiarized work. I wrote it on another football website where there arent enough ravens so I figured I would bring it over here
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362253001' post='1375142']
with that terrible writing style and word structure its clearly not written by someone who writes for a living but I get the point you guys are trying to make. Definitely dont want plagiarized work. I wrote it on another football website where there arent enough ravens so I figured I would bring it over here
[/quote]

Didn't accuse you, just making sure and clarifying. We've had issues with it earlier this year.
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[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1362250813' post='1375100']
Arnie, my friend, Leach should stay. He has good hands out of the backfield and punishes people with his blocks. Koch has been with us since he was drafted in 2006. We can always bring in an UDFA punter to compete, but Koch is the man for the next 3 or 4 years. Now, extending Reed, Oher, Leach, Jones, and Boldin sound like a good idea. How about restructuring Suggs and Ngata while we are at it? I predict that McKinnie will be back. He earned his contract in the playoffs. Let's get Ellerbe signed soon. I don't mind letting Kruger and Williams test the market. We can always pick up their replacements in the draft.
[/quote]Why are you addressing me? i didnt write this.

But for the record i cant see leach being back at that salary. i think hes cut or extended reducing the cap hit. Same with either jones or boldin if the want to keep reed or kruger.
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1362253201' post='1375148']
Didn't accuse you, just making sure and clarifying. We've had issues with it earlier this year.
[/quote]wonder who that was.....??....... lol
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362253808' post='1375161']
Why are you addressing me? i didnt write this.

But for the record i cant see leach being back at that salary. i think hes cut or extended reducing the cap hit. Same with either jones or boldin if the want to keep reed or kruger.
[/quote]
Leach is really expensive for what he does now with this offense.

Let me ask you, Arnie: do you think we might move on from a ZBS? I've been wondering since Caldwell took over and Castillo came here. I'm wondering how they will change the run game we have.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1362253871' post='1375165']
Leach is really expensive for what he does now with this offense.

Let me ask you, Arnie: do you think we might move on from a ZBS? I've been wondering since Caldwell took over and Castillo came here. I'm wondering how they will change the run game we have.
[/quote]We've already implemented it a bit and you see it someone times and to me it never works. I wouldnt know too much about olin blocking schemes, The Raven could chime in here i think he plays oline at college. But when i see that zone stretch play we run, 9 out of 10 times its a run for a loss.

Im sure there is more than that play we use it, but i dont notice it much, but its def used a bit already. But id say oher, ko, yanda, they are built for a power man scheme, get your hands on him and drive him back, but thats just me.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362254114' post='1375169']
We've already implemented it a bit and you see it someone times and to me it never works. I wouldnt know too much about olin blocking schemes, The Raven could chime in here i think he plays oline at college. But when i see that zone stretch play we run, 9 out of 10 times its a run for a loss.

Im sure there is more than that play we use it, but i dont notice it much, but its def used a bit already. But id say oher, ko, yanda, they are built for a power man scheme, get your hands on him and drive him back, but thats just me.
[/quote]
I agree. It seems that when we go ZBS, it just doesn't get us anything. I could be wrong because like you, I'm not the best at evaluating that aspect of the game, but I wonder if Castillo & Caldwell change the way our run-game operates. If that does happen, I feel like it could have ramifications on whether or not we keep Leach.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1362254372' post='1375171']

I agree. It seems that when we go ZBS, it just doesn't get us anything. I could be wrong because like you, I'm not the best at evaluating that aspect of the game, but I wonder if Castillo & Caldwell change the way our run-game operates. If that does happen, I feel like it could have ramifications on whether or not we keep Leach.
[/quote]it could yes, but remember the texans ran a pure zbs and leach still thrived in it. He's a fit for either.
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LOL we're worried about plaigarizing on this board, while at the same time not giving a darn about a certain "someone's" ability, or inability that is, to post one single darn comment that makes any sense. Jeesh, sometimes I wish that certain "someone" would plaigarize just so we would have something halfway decent to read, instead of a billion and a half posts by the same "someone" that make no sense whatsoever. Real smooth guys, real smooth...

But I would have to say that I agree with the OP here. A punter is a punter. Not nearly as important as a kicker. While they do have the ability to change the momentum for an opposing offense by starting them off deep in enemy territory, they are a dime a dozen. As far as Leach. I love Leach, but if that means we're getting rid of Ellerbe, then I say we cut him and go to a more aggressive, attack-style offense, which we basically did in the playoffs (and won the Super Bowl with, just saying). Yes, he's the best fb in the league, but guys, we need some defense in case you all haven't noticed. Ellerbe was a standout for our D this year. Keeping him should, and will, be a priority.
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I agree with most of what you posted. Leach will need to either take a pay cut or I suspect the FO will cut him. The trouble with cutting Koch is that you'd upset the gentle balance of the Wolf Pack and might affect field goals.

I disagree with cutting McClain. He's not a great MLB, but he's solid. Without him, we need to find a free agent or rookie MLB or stick with Josh Bynes or someone who isn't a natural MLB. I'd say keep him around through training camp. If he can't get past his injury then we'll have to let him go, but he's to good to dismiss out of hand.
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[quote name='NaveSenrag' timestamp='1362271308' post='1375377']
I agree with most of what you posted. Leach will need to either take a pay cut or I suspect the FO will cut him. The trouble with cutting Koch is that you'd upset the gentle balance of the Wolf Pack and might affect field goals.

I disagree with cutting McClain. He's not a great MLB, but he's solid. Without him, we need to find a free agent or rookie MLB or stick with Josh Bynes or someone who isn't a natural MLB. I'd say keep him around through training camp. If he can't get past his injury then we'll have to let him go, but he's to good to dismiss out of hand.
[/quote]
Regarding Koch & McClain:

Koch won't get cut unless someone just beats him in camp straight-up like Tucker did to Cundiff but this rookie punter would have to do it extremely convincingly. Like by a wider margin than Tucker did Cundiff. It's entirely possible, though.

As for McClain: I am not the biggest fan of him but I don't see him cut unless he isn't healthy. If he isn't healthy and fails his physical he's gone. Tight against the cap, the Ravens won't play when it comes to that. He won't be cut due to cap outright, but rather injury + cap. The Ravens will keep him even if he is injured as long as he passes his physical, I think. I make that akin to how we kept Carr & Foxworth around even with them injured. We did finally cut both, though, and that could happen to McClain in 2014. I suspect he returns this year. I doubt he goes anywhere, much to my dismay.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362274188' post='1375425']
Has anyone heard much of ed reed? Any rumblings? Sports people on the local radio?
[/quote]
I heard the Pats have 5 mil waiting for him if he wants to join up. But you've probably already seen that thread.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362274188' post='1375425']
Has anyone heard much of ed reed? Any rumblings? Sports people on the local radio?
[/quote]
He went to a seafood restaurant recently and was offered a choice between a bowl of clam chowder or a crab cake. He chose the crab cake. Perhaps it's a sign?!

Lol, no, nothing. He's laying low. I think I remember hearing that he was getting an agent. That is a big plus, IMO. I do remember the Ravens & Ed saying they would take a few weeks off and then begin discussions. I'm sure they have met or are about to meet.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362274188' post='1375425']
Has anyone heard much of ed reed? Any rumblings? Sports people on the local radio?
[/quote]

Unfortunately, the only things I'm hearing right now are a bunch of people in other cities speculating about whether they can bring him in i.e. New England, Miami, San Francisco, etc.
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I don't know why the OP received such backlash. He talks like a businessman and to be totally honest his ideas are not that absurd. Koch has not been a great punter the last couple of years. His directional punting has been flat out bad at times. Would I cut Koch? Probably not, but its not an unreasonable idea. Cutting Leach is also not unreasonable. He's the best FB in the league, but you're going to pay a guy 4.5mil to play 25% of the total snaps? Just not good money managing. I've been an advocate for letting McClain go, if it saves us any money Im not too cap savvy. He's just not a very good ILB. I really think we can replace his production with McClellan who's a far more violent player and aggressive tackler. Coverage wise they both suck so why not save some money.

However there are also certain things you can't quantify. Losing Lewis and Birk are huge leadership losses and Leach is a salty veteran who is still at the top of his position, even if it's an undervalued position. Rice is not a guy who can really run without a lead blocker very well, unlike Pierce.

But again, these are not outlandish suggestions without reason.
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1362278219' post='1375486']
I don't know why the OP received such backlash. He talks like a businessman and to be totally honest his ideas are not that absurd. Koch has not been a great punter the last couple of years. His directional punting has been flat out bad at times. Would I cut Koch? Probably not, but its not an unreasonable idea. Cutting Leach is also not unreasonable. He's the best FB in the league, but you're going to pay a guy 4.5mil to play 25% of the total snaps? Just not good money managing. I've been an advocate for letting McClain go, if it saves us any money Im not too cap savvy. He's just not a very good ILB. I really think we can replace his production with McClellan who's a far more violent player and aggressive tackler. Coverage wise they both suck so why not save some money.

However there are also certain things you can't quantify. Losing Lewis and Birk are huge leadership losses and Leach is a salty veteran who is still at the top of his position, even if it's an undervalued position. Rice is not a guy who can really run without a lead blocker very well, unlike Pierce.

But again, these are not outlandish suggestions without reason.
[/quote]
I agree.

Would you take Leach's 4.5M and invest it into Delanie Walker? I would seriously consider that move. Walker can block and is a beast on ST.
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we could also use Leach as 3rd string TE, blocking TE, that would elimanate the 3 rd string TE from 53 man roster, which make leach FB/TE. i pretty sure he will take pay cut.
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[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1362284153' post='1375556']
we could also use Leach as 3rd string TE, blocking TE, that would elimanate the 3 rd string TE from 53 man roster, which make leach FB/TE. i pretty sure he will take pay cut.
[/quote]

Leach is 31. If he were cut now he could get one more 3 yr deal with some money up front. Teams have A LOT of cap room. The browns have no QB and a big powerback in trent richardson with 50 million in cap room. Would leach be worth 5 million a year to them? I would think so.

Leach is a great player but our offense flourished when Joe got to have 4 or 5 true threats on the field. Leach is worth what he makes, just not to us at this point. I doubt he takes a pay cut with his age and the fact that he got his ring.
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362340110' post='1375945']
Leach is 31. If he were cut now he could get one more 3 yr deal with some money up front. Teams have A LOT of cap room. The browns have no QB and a big powerback in trent richardson with 50 million in cap room. Would leach be worth 5 million a year to them? I would think so.

Leach is a great player but our offense flourished when Joe got to have 4 or 5 true threats on the field. Leach is worth what he makes, just not to us at this point. I doubt he takes a pay cut with his age and the fact that he got his ring.
[/quote]

Most teams don't used a true FB anymore, so I'm doubtful that Leach would get anything more than a 2 year deal at $2-3 million on the open market. He's clearly the best at what he does, but not many teams would use him. The shift is now to that H-Back role that Aaron Hernandez plays. Leach is a dying breed.

If we could offer him a deal that I think he would get on the open market, I think he'd stay. If he's intent on his current contract, I think he gets cut.
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362247503' post='1375052']
I agree with everything you said. I think we replace him with a 350K guy and we would just not use the position. Patriots among other teams have just stopped really using the FB. We failed enough 3rd and 1s and 3rd and 2s running that we should probably throw on those anyway. I hope we find a replacement for leach but he has a big cap # for the amount of snaps he takes. If we can maybe extend boldin and keep leach this year the team would be better off though
[/quote]

I agree with your assessment on Leach, although Leach is a free agent in 2014, Flacco's cap number in 2013 is 7 million, we very well might be able to keep Leach and let him walk in 2014, I would hope the FO drafts a fullback to groom behind leach who can play special teams.

The idea of not running for short yardage I completely disagree, Ravens offense converted 60% of downs on the ground in short yardage, the worst conversion rate was out of shotgun for short yardage which was 15%, an abysmal failure, and the main reason I wanted to see Cameron gone.
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362240150' post='1374950']
[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]This is what my offseason would look like heading into the draft[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Vonta Leach- hes the best FB in the game but we just dont use a FB enough to warrant his salary. Saves us $3 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Sam Koch- Hes just not a good punter. Had a horrible playoffs and is paid like an all pro. Savings this year basically 0 when a replacement is factored in but we get him off the books for subsequent years when his salaries go up into the 3 million range and we will need future cap space.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Jameel McClain- This is predicated on resigning Ellerbe but McClain getting cut saves us 1.8 million and a cap hit next year. He just wasnt that good this year before his injury and hes making too much. 80/20 rule comes strongly into affect when you look at other options.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Bobbie Williams- Save 1.2 million for a guy who brings nothing for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Obviously a lot will depend on Flacco's contract numbers and cap hits but right now, those moves save us 6.7 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Resign[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ellerbe- After Flacco he is our most important guy. We lose Ray Lewis and Ellerbe played at a very high level last year. He scares me if we give us a lot of bonus[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ed Reed- We cannot afford to overpay but losing him and Lewis would hurt all at once. Reed is a savvy vet and is always in the head of the top QBs we would face in the offseason.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Bryant McKinnie- He looked great in the playoffs but character issues will scare teams away. I think a 1 yr 3 million deal with 1 million Bonus and the other 2 million guaranteed based on offseason workout arrangements and him showing up and going through training camp like everyone else with no problems.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Some Free Agents I like for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Shaun Phillips- a true 3-4 OLB who can still produce. Would be a good fit to replace upshaw on pass rushing downs and give us that 80/20 version of Kruger.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Terrance Knighton- Character issues make him someone who wont command much money but truth is the Jags dont have the vets or the wins to get through to someone like him. The structure of our organization and a tight leash might make him worth the risk. Sell him on one good year with us and hes a UFA again commanding actual money[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]Only Good parts are cutting Jameel McClain Bobbie Williams[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362249410' post='1375085']
Oher is someone who could be extended as is leach. Both in final years of their deals, turn their big base salaries into bonuses and extended them 3 or 4 years reducing their cap hits. It's likely oher would be extended next off season anyway why not do it now
[/quote]Same as Jacoby Jones and Webb to save us Money against the Cap
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[quote name='gregreid5' timestamp='1362240150' post='1374950']
[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]This is what my offseason would look like heading into the draft[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Vonta Leach- hes the best FB in the game but we just dont use a FB enough to warrant his salary. Saves us $3 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Sam Koch- Hes just not a good punter. Had a horrible playoffs and is paid like an all pro. Savings this year basically 0 when a replacement is factored in but we get him off the books for subsequent years when his salaries go up into the 3 million range and we will need future cap space.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Jameel McClain- This is predicated on resigning Ellerbe but McClain getting cut saves us 1.8 million and a cap hit next year. He just wasnt that good this year before his injury and hes making too much. 80/20 rule comes strongly into affect when you look at other options.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Cut Bobbie Williams- Save 1.2 million for a guy who brings nothing for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Obviously a lot will depend on Flacco's contract numbers and cap hits but right now, those moves save us 6.7 million.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Resign[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ellerbe- After Flacco he is our most important guy. We lose Ray Lewis and Ellerbe played at a very high level last year. He scares me if we give us a lot of bonus[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Ed Reed- We cannot afford to overpay but losing him and Lewis would hurt all at once. Reed is a savvy vet and is always in the head of the top QBs we would face in the offseason.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Bryant McKinnie- He looked great in the playoffs but character issues will scare teams away. I think a 1 yr 3 million deal with 1 million Bonus and the other 2 million guaranteed based on offseason workout arrangements and him showing up and going through training camp like everyone else with no problems.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Some Free Agents I like for us[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Shaun Phillips- a true 3-4 OLB who can still produce. Would be a good fit to replace upshaw on pass rushing downs and give us that 80/20 version of Kruger.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#141414][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, 'Sans Serif][size=3][background=rgb(244, 244, 244)]Terrance Knighton- Character issues make him someone who wont command much money but truth is the Jags dont have the vets or the wins to get through to someone like him. The structure of our organization and a tight leash might make him worth the risk. Sell him on one good year with us and hes a UFA again commanding actual money[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote] we can do wonders if we cut Bobbie Williams and Jameel McClain as for leach and Koch bring in competition by drafting Zach Boren and signing possibly an UDFA punter like Jeff Locke to bring competition in all positions
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I think we are going to have to let Ellerbe and Kruger go to free agency before anyone comes to a deal. I have a bad feeling about Ellerbe walking. He showed flashes of greatness but has struggled to stay healthy. If he wants too big of a contract I think we will let him go and try to keep Kruger.

I think we let McKinney walk. Everytime i see him in interviews, it looks like he doesn't want to be there. The Ravens had him in the dog house all year and I think both parties would not be upset if they cut ties. But I don't see him working out with any other teams either. He has been a headcase for the past couple years and doesn't have a high demand. But I have a feeling a stupid team will pick him up and give him too much money


I think we restructure Boldin's contract. I don't think there is a choice. He doesn't get separation and isn't getting younger. I truly believe Doss will not be a big dropoff from Boldin and Smith is our best WR.

Leech may have to take less money too if he wants to stay.

I have a feeling the Ravens will do everything they can to keep Reed. Ravens like the idea of keeping hall of fame players around for as long as they can.
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[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1362364581' post='1376473']
I think we are going to have to let Ellerbe and Kruger go to free agency before anyone comes to a deal. I have a bad feeling about Ellerbe walking. He showed flashes of greatness but has struggled to stay healthy. If he wants too big of a contract I think we will let him go and try to keep Kruger.

I think we let McKinney walk. Everytime i see him in interviews, it looks like he doesn't want to be there. The Ravens had him in the dog house all year and I think both parties would not be upset if they cut ties. But I don't see him working out with any other teams either. He has been a headcase for the past couple years and doesn't have a high demand. But I have a feeling a stupid team will pick him up and give him too much money


I think we restructure Boldin's contract. I don't think there is a choice. He doesn't get separation and isn't getting younger. I truly believe Doss will not be a big dropoff from Boldin and Smith is our best WR.

Leech may have to take less money too if he wants to stay.

I have a feeling the Ravens will do everything they can to keep Reed. Ravens like the idea of keeping hall of fame players around for as long as they can.
[/quote]

Same. I don't think other teams will command that much money w/ both players. Both only had limited productive starts and both have flaws that is of major concern. Ellerbe being injury prone & kruger having only 1 year of actual decent sack #'s. They need at least another full year to show they have consistency. Yeah, I'll have them shop around.
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https://twitter.com/....06262081871872


Jason Cole
‏@JasonColeYahoo
I didn't believe this couple of weeks ago, but do now: LB/DE Paul Kruger looks like he's going to blow past $9m per, could get over $10m
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1362421931' post='1377190']
[url="https://twitter.com/....06262081871872"]https://twitter.com/....06262081871872[/url]


Jason Cole
‏@JasonColeYahoo
I didn't believe this couple of weeks ago, but do now: LB/DE Paul Kruger looks like he's going to blow past $9m per, could get over $10m
[/quote]

So ... third round comp in 2014 maybe? Or am I shooting too high?
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1362422288' post='1377196']


So ... third round comp in 2014 maybe? Or am I shooting too high?
[/quote]
I am seriously hoping. We need to lay low in FA. Sign cut vets. No big contracts.
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[quote name='lowrider' timestamp='1362364581' post='1376473']
I think we restructure Boldin's contract. I don't think there is a choice. [b] He doesn't get separation and isn't getting younger. I truly believe Doss will not be a big dropoff [/b]from Boldin and Smith is our best WR.

[b] I have a feeling the Ravens will do everything they can to keep Reed.[/b] Ravens like the idea of keeping hall of fame players around for as long as they can.
[/quote]

i agree with all of your points but these. i have seen very little from Doss that impresses me, and i don't think any of our WRs are ready to step up into Boldin's shoes. as for Q's 'aging' and 'lack of separation', i think that both of those factor are practically irrelevant, since he has proven that he can still dominate. i do think that we will have to let him go since they won't be able to make a deal with him, but i don't think that Doss/Smith/Jones will be able to take over Boldin's famous 'if-it-hits-me-in-the-hands-I'm-going-to-catch-it' role.

i don't think that we will work as hard to keep reed as you describe. the NFL is a business, and if the Pats are legitimately offering him 5 mil, there's no way we can match that under our current situation, because even though Ed is a HOFer, hes still an [i] aging [/i] HOFer. i think we will work noticeably harder to keep ellerbe, because despite the fact he's injury-prone, as you have said he is a great player to fill a position that we desperately need filled.
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1362423224' post='1377209']
i agree with all of your points but these. i have seen very little from Doss that impresses me, and i don't think any of our WRs are ready to step up into Boldin's shoes. as for Q's 'aging' and 'lack of separation', i think that both of those factor are practically irrelevant, since he has proven that he can still dominate. i do think that we will have to let him go since they won't be able to make a deal with him, but i don't think that Doss/Smith/Jones will be able to take over Boldin's famous 'if-it-hits-me-in-the-hands-I'm-going-to-catch-it' role.

i don't think that we will work as hard to keep reed as you describe. the NFL is a business, and if the Pats are legitimately offering him 5 mil, there's no way we can match that under our current situation, because even though Ed is a HOFer, hes still an [i] aging [/i] HOFer. i think we will work noticeably harder to keep ellerbe, because despite the fact he's injury-prone, as you have said he is a great player to fill a position that we desperately need filled.
[/quote]

True. Doss just isn't Boldin. In fact, very few will ever be Boldin. Boldin is bulky, tall & extremely physical. His range of catching ability is amazing.

I see Doss getting pushed around very easily vs. CBs, and the one redeeming ability he supposedly had (his hands) weren't there this season.
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1362422288' post='1377196']


So ... third round comp in 2014 maybe? Or am I shooting too high?
[/quote]dnt see it, with the cap floor coming in this year I could see a lot of free agents getting huge paydays so 10 a year may just net a fourth. It depends who he goes to, if he could go to a contender, get the playoffs, maybe get enough sacks for a probowl and 10 mil a year then yea we could.
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1362423224' post='1377209']
i agree with all of your points but these. i have seen very little from Doss that impresses me, and i don't think any of our WRs are ready to step up into Boldin's shoes. as for Q's 'aging' and 'lack of separation', i think that both of those factor are practically irrelevant, since he has proven that he can still dominate. i do think that we will have to let him go since they won't be able to make a deal with him, but i don't think that Doss/Smith/Jones will be able to take over Boldin's famous 'if-it-hits-me-in-the-hands-I'm-going-to-catch-it' role.

i don't think that we will work as hard to keep reed as you describe. the NFL is a business, and if the Pats are legitimately offering him 5 mil, there's no way we can match that under our current situation, because even though Ed is a HOFer, hes still an [i] aging [/i] HOFer. i think we will work noticeably harder to keep ellerbe, because despite the fact he's injury-prone, as you have said he is a great player to fill a position that we desperately need filled.
[/quote]

To say Boldin "dominates" is definitely an exaggeration of his play. Boldin's play has been inconsistent from a game to game basis throughout his years in Baltimore. In fact, he has yet to eclipse 1000 yards in one season since joining the Ravens. Now that is not entirely fair because Cam Cameron being terrible and Flacco's inconsistency, but to some extent it is Boldin's fault.

Separation is a problem and throwing jump balls to Boldin is a limited play. Boldin fails to take the top off the defense and often gets the number two cornerback because the number one faces Smith. His leadership, toughness, and blocking are all great qualities but 6 million is steep for a number two wide receiver.

Doss has excellent hands and has more speed than Boldin. I don't think his play this year has been a fair representation of his talent.

Finally, although Reed is an aging HOF, he is still performing at a high level and is still a playmaker for our defense. If the Patriots offer 5 million, I don't think that will be enough to lure Reed to New England because I could see the Ravens making a similar offer
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