2013 Baltimore Orioles

[H8R]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1365044085' post='1424347']
BAL has really gotten off to a bad start, pitching-wise. 12 runs in their 1st 2 games...
[/quote]

Compared to whom?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365043963' post='1424343']
1 season? Hes consistently gotten better EVERY year.. Either it was more homers, better average more RBI etc.. every year since 2008. He much closer to being the best at his position in baseball (center field ) then Flacco is a football ( quarterback ) Are you trying to debate that?
[/quote]

Yes, I will debate that. Jones is a very good player, but is not anywhere close to being the best CF in baseball. Matt Kemp, Mike Trout (who got moved for no reason other than to get another elite defender on the field), Jacoby Ellsbury, and Austin Jackson are all clearly superior players at CF. What has Adam Jones done to suggest to you he is an elite player? The Gold Gloves are nice, but in reality were not really deserved. He is a good defensive CF but Mike Trout was far superior in every sense last season. Jones has 1 season where he has had 30 HRs, he has never batter .300 or even had a .350 OBP. He has never knocked in more that 84 runs. He strikes out too much and doesnt walk enough, and is only an average base stealer for a player with his speed. Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player but he hasnt consistently been anything special.

I don't really want to compare him to Flacco because it's like comparing apples to oranges. QB is an entirely different position to play obvioulsy. It is the most challenging position on the field and has the most responsibility attached to it. If I were to compare it to any position in baseball it would be Catcher. That said, Flacco is clearly among the top QBs in the league and for all his "inconsistencies" has managed a pretty remarkable career thus far. I dont see how you could possibly argue that Jones is anyway a superior player in their respective sports. Unfortunately it is impossible to argue from a statistical measure, because unlike football baseball is ruled by stats while in football stats can only tell a small part of the story.

Bottom line, what Flacco has done in 5 years in Baltimore is far and away more impressive than anything Adam Jones has done and this is coming from a huge AJ fan. I'm not going to exaggerate his play though.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365044855' post='1424375']
Compared to whom?
[/quote]

WAS' pitchers are currently setting the standard, with 2 shutouts.

[FerrariFan87]

Tough loss tonight. Bullpen was dreadful. Very early of course...

[codizzle]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1365044662' post='1424363']


You think BAL will win 159 straight, lol?
[/quote]
Of course.. I never say a team of mine is going to lose..

That's why I don't do ravens record predictions or any of that crap

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1365046242' post='1424398']
Of course.. I never say a team of mine is going to lose..

That's why I don't do ravens record predictions or any of that crap
[/quote]

Because you automatically assume your team will win every game?! You should be a Heat fan!

[Gordo52]

Don't know who to blame for last nights loss.

Hunter, Buck, Flacco or Obama ???

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1365090155' post='1424748']
Don't know who to blame for last nights loss.

Hunter, Buck, [b]Flacco[/b] or Obama ???
[/quote]

Thank goodness you didn't say this during the season, when all the Flacco haters are out!!!

[H8R]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1365045060' post='1424381']
WAS' pitchers are currently setting the standard, with 2 shutouts.
[/quote]

against the MARLINS... Only hitter on that team is Stanton.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365098733' post='1424862']
against the MARLINS... Only hitter on that team is Stanton.
[/quote]

Nonetheless, it's still impressive!

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365044939' post='1424378']
Yes, I will debate that. Jones is a very good player, but is not anywhere close to being the best CF in baseball. Matt Kemp, Mike Trout (who got moved for no reason other than to get another elite defender on the field), Jacoby Ellsbury, and Austin Jackson are all clearly superior players at CF. What has Adam Jones done to suggest to you he is an elite player? The Gold Gloves are nice, but in reality were not really deserved. He is a good defensive CF but Mike Trout was far superior in every sense last season. Jones has 1 season where he has had 30 HRs, he has never batter .300 or even had a .350 OBP. He has never knocked in more that 84 runs. He strikes out too much and doesnt walk enough, and is only an average base stealer for a player with his speed. Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player but he hasnt consistently been anything special.

I don't really want to compare him to Flacco because it's like comparing apples to oranges. QB is an entirely different position to play obvioulsy. It is the most challenging position on the field and has the most responsibility attached to it. If I were to compare it to any position in baseball it would be Catcher. That said, Flacco is clearly among the top QBs in the league and for all his "inconsistencies" has managed a pretty remarkable career thus far. I dont see how you could possibly argue that Jones is anyway a superior player in their respective sports. Unfortunately it is impossible to argue from a statistical measure, because unlike football baseball is ruled by stats while in football stats can only tell a small part of the story.

Bottom line, what Flacco has done in 5 years in Baltimore is far and away more impressive than anything Adam Jones has done and this is coming from a huge AJ fan. I'm not going to exaggerate his play though.
[/quote]

Jones has the most assists and putouts of any of the players you mentioned. You talk of consistency, discredit what Jones does but then throw Trout in the argument? Right... that makes sense. Trout doesnt even have a long enough career to say if hes consistent or not. Also, Adam Jones was a shortstop converted into a center fielder. He has a better arm then ANY of the guys you mentioned. His stolen bases arent great, but the O's dont steal much as a team anyhow. His RBI count has little to do with him... you have to have guys on-base or hit a tater to get an RBI... The Orioles strike out a a ton as a team, and dont walk much ( not many people on the bases). Not many chances to pick-up the RBI. Jones lead the league last year for game winning hits/ go-ahead runs.

btw... Strikeout wise (since you mentioned it) Jones has less per game then Trout, Kemp and Jackson. Ellsbury does strikeout less, thats for certain but he doesnt have the power that Jones has and has played on a better line-up with better protection.
I see Jones as an elite player, he brings things to the table as a complete package that few center fielders can match.

[H8R]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1365099363' post='1424871']
Nonetheless, it's still impressive!
[/quote]

how about their run production on the other side of the coin... btw, the Rays have one of the best staffs in baseball and the )'s put 7 runs on them each night..

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365100143' post='1424878']
Jones has the most assists and putouts of any of the players you mentioned. You talk of consistency, discredit what Jones does but then throw Trout in the argument? Right... that makes sense. Trout doesnt even have a long enough career to say if hes consistent or not. Also, Adam Jones was a shortstop converted into a center fielder. He has a better arm then ANY of the guys you mentioned. His stolen bases arent great, but the O's dont steal much as a team anyhow. His RBI count has little to do with him... you have to have guys on-base or hit a tater to get an RBI... The Orioles strike out a a ton as a team, and dont walk much ( not many people on the bases). Not many chances to pick-up the RBI. Jones lead the league last year for game winning hits/ go-ahead runs.

btw... Strikeout wise (since you mentioned it) Jones has less per game then Trout, Kemp and Jackson. Ellsbury does strikeout less, thats for certain but he doesnt have the power that Jones has and has played on a better line-up with better protection.
I see Jones as an elite player, he brings things to the table as a complete package that few center fielders can match.
[/quote]

Look, I'm not trying to rag on AJ, I'm just not going to say he is a better or more consistent player than Flacco. The proof is in the pudding. Flacco has been a boss in the postseason while in AJ was simply not clutch in his one postseason appearance. Jones is a very good player and I am glad to have him here in Baltimore, but he isnt even the best player on the team IMO. His numbers have been very good for a CF, but not exceptional. There is a chance he keeps getting better and I hope he has a great year once again, but it's not even close what impact they have on their respective teams.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365101108' post='1424892']
Look, I'm not trying to rag on AJ, I'm just not going to say he is a better or more consistent player than Flacco. The proof is in the pudding. Flacco has been a boss in the postseason while in AJ was simply not clutch in his one postseason appearance. Jones is a very good player and I am glad to have him here in Baltimore, but he isnt even the best player on the team IMO. His numbers have been very good for a CF, but not exceptional. There is a chance he keeps getting better and I hope he has a great year once again, but it's not even close what impact they have on their respective teams.
[/quote]

We wouldnt have been in the postseason if Jones wasnt clutch in the regular season. It really isnt fair to compare them, as Jones plays offense and defense, whereas Flacco is a QB. Who is the best player on the team? Jones is , by far the best Orioles player. Its hard to measure impact across different sports. I dont even know how you'd quantify it. I stand behind AJ providing higher level consistency then Flacco, when compared to their peers.

[Gordo52]

Are you kidding me Chris Davis. Wow

[Cville-Raven]

Chris Davis>>>>>Mark Reynolds

[Moderator 3]

I hope Davis can keep this up. It sure is fun!

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1365104086' post='1424943']
I hope Davis can keep this up. It sure is fun!
[/quote]
162 HR's this season, calling it now.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365103820' post='1424936']


We wouldnt have been in the postseason if Jones wasnt clutch in the regular season. It really isnt fair to compare them, as Jones plays offense and defense, whereas Flacco is a QB. Who is the best player on the team? Jones is , by far the best Orioles player. Its hard to measure impact across different sports. I dont even know how you'd quantify it. I stand behind AJ providing higher level consistency then Flacco, when compared to their peers.
[/quote]Weiters is an amazing all around catcher so it is definitely not by far.

[Cville-Raven]

Brian Roberts failsauce

[Cville-Raven]

Take him out

[Cville-Raven]

Bats needs to produce now

[Cville-Raven]

Davis isnt human

[codizzle]

Refer to post from yesterday

[Cville-Raven]

Nice catch, was getting pretty tired about hearing how good Longoria was

[H8R]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1365106331' post='1424965']
Weiters is an amazing all around catcher so it is definitely not by far.
[/quote]

Catcher, yes.. Hitter? Nope, not yet.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365110882' post='1425035']


Catcher, yes.. Hitter? Nope, not yet.
[/quote]Actually he's not a bad hitter, he is one of the better power hitting catchers and his average isn't terrible.

[H8R]

That was a BALLLLLLLLL!

[H8R]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1365110939' post='1425036']
Actually he's not a bad hitter, he is one of the better power hitting catchers and his average isn't terrible.
[/quote]

Not bad. Not as good as Jones. He turns it on June on... but he starts out VERY slow.

[H8R]

JJ needs to get this bat going, he's a major spark plug