2013 Baltimore Orioles

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365113957' post='1425102']

Wieters is the best player on the Orioles and the most important to the clubs success. What Flacco does for the offense is immensely more important than a single player on any baseball team. It's really not even comparable.
[/quote]

You have your opinion , I have mine. Jones has more quantitative data to support my claim. What Flacco does or accomplishes is far more dependent on the pieces around him..

[H8R]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1365114452' post='1425110']

What mod 3 said. The O's have minor league affiliates where all the prospects, players coming off injury, and just minor league players (not good enough for majors) play. It's broken down in 4 major categories/leagues... Triple A (AAA) Double A (AA) A Ball, and A Ball advanced. ....prospects that are more ready then others play at higher levels.

Some players spend their whole career playing in the minors because they're not good enough to advance. I believe both Bundy and Gausman are in AAA. Also players get "called up" and "called down" to the minors and big leagues all the time.
[/quote]

That's actually not entirely true... These days prospects , blue chippers usually come out after AA experience. AAA is more for older guys that probably won't or aren't expected to make major impacts.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365116426' post='1425140']
You have your opinion , I have mine. Jones has more quantitative data to support my claim. What Flacco does or accomplishes is far more dependent on the pieces around him..
[/quote]

Yes, clearly we differ in opinion here, but it is a joke to say that the QB is far more dependent on positions around him. A single player in MLB is easily replaced. That is not true for the starting QB especially when they play at a high level like Flacco. You cant possibly argue that Jones a) has been more consistent than a player that has led his team to the playoffs 5 consecutive years or b.)that Jones numbers put him at any kind of upper echelon in MLB. He is a good player but far from the best at his position, and even if he was the best CF in all of baseball the impact of that position is negligible compared to the QB of an NFL team. Flacco plays the most important position on the field and is among the best in the NFL. His role is far and away more important to his team's success.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365117025' post='1425147']


Yes, clearly we differ in opinion here, but it is a joke to say that the QB is far more dependent on positions around him. A single player in MLB is easily replaced. That is not true for the starting QB especially when they play at a high level like Flacco. You cant possibly argue that Jones a) has been more consistent than a player that has led his team to the playoffs 5 consecutive years or b.)that Jones numbers put him at any kind of upper echelon in MLB. He is a good player but far from the best at his position, and even if he was the best CF in all of baseball the impact of that position is negligible compared to the QB of an NFL team. Flacco plays the most important position on the field and is among the best in the NFL. His role is far and away more important to his team's success.
[/quote]

You're moving away from your initial post saying that Jones isn't one of the top center fielders in the game ... The players you mentioned and their stats prove that Jones is as good or better the every one you mentioned .. You're trying to pick different arguments.

Flacco is the most important player on the team, but football is far more team oriented then baseball. You haven't taken into account that Baseball players play both ways for the most part. Flacco doesn't tackle running backs or take on offensive lineman. The point is, both are different ... Jones, by individual statistics ( which baseball is built on ) is much closer to the top of his position then Flacco. Also, as I said ... the way this started was to say Jones is more consistent then Flacco and at a higher individual level.

[JO_75]

2-1! 2-1!

*Remembers it's Baseball*

Doesn't mean as much as 2-1 in the NFL does.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365117750' post='1425155']
You're moving away from your initial post saying that Jones isn't one of the top center fielders in the game ... The players you mentioned and their stats prove that Jones is as good or better the every one you mentioned .. You're trying to pick different arguments.

Flacco is the most important player on the team, but football is far more team oriented then baseball. You haven't taken into account that Baseball players play both ways for the most part. Flacco doesn't tackle running backs or take on offensive lineman. The point is, both are different ... Jones, by individual statistics ( which baseball is built on ) is much closer to the top of his position then Flacco. Also, as I said ... the way this started was to say Jones is more consistent then Flacco and at a higher individual level.
[/quote]

Jones is not a better player than Ellsbury, Kemp, Jackson, or Trout. The only one who is even close is Jackson and even then Jones falls short.

Jones is not a more consistent player than Flacco. His stats are not that impressive. Let's talk about WAR which takes into consideration every aspect of a players contribution to the team's success including base-running, batting, and defense. The best WAR Jones has ever posted was 3.4. That means over the course of a 162 game season his play was worth 3.4 wins more than replacement level which ends up being mere percentage points at the end of the season. That isnt anywhere close to what these other CFs have posted. Kemp has posted WAR of 7.8, Ellsbury 8.0, Trout 10.7, and Jackson 5.3. All of those numbers were in the past two seasons and are significantly higher than Jones best. Jones has had 1 season where he "led" his team to the playoffs. That one season is makes him a more consistent player than Flacco? You have absolutely zero argument. If Flacco is replaced by an average QB we dont make the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons, and it's doubtful we have any playoff wins.

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365116426' post='1425140']
You have your opinion , I have mine. Jones has more quantitative data to support my claim. What Flacco does or accomplishes is far more dependent on the pieces around him..
[/quote]Yeah I personally dont know how you can say anyone other than Jones honestly. He was the only really consistent offensive producer for last year.

[FerrariFan87]

My dad surprised me with tickets to the Home Opener tomorrow! He won them at work! Wahoo!

[Gordo52]

[quote name='ravens__' timestamp='1365114817' post='1425118']


Bundy and Gausman are part of Bowie's rotation (AA) and by the way I'm really excited to catch some Baysox games later in the year, always a fun time. Most top-ranked prospects jump straight from Double-A to the Majors. Triple-A is usually where major/minor league veterans play.
[/quote]
True thanks for clearing that up. Still a little rusty with all these minor league things. . it's early haha

[Gordo52]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365116594' post='1425144']


That's actually not entirely true... These days prospects , blue chippers usually come out after AA experience. AAA is more for older guys that probably won't or aren't expected to make major impacts.
[/quote]
You right.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1365119211' post='1425181']
My dad surprised me with tickets to the Home Opener tomorrow! He won them at work! Wahoo!
[/quote]
Lucky you! Did he just win tickets for this one game, or the 13 game plan??? I know you can't go to opening day without buying the plan I think.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365118838' post='1425172']


Jones is not a better player than Ellsbury, Kemp, Jackson, or Trout. The only one who is even close is Jackson and even then Jones falls short.

Jones is not a more consistent player than Flacco. His stats are not that impressive. Let's talk about WAR which takes into consideration every aspect of a players contribution to the team's success including base-running, batting, and defense. The best WAR Jones has ever posted was 3.4. That means over the course of a 162 game season his play was worth 3.4 wins more than replacement level which ends up being mere percentage points at the end of the season. That isnt anywhere close to what these other CFs have posted. Kemp has posted WAR of 7.8, Ellsbury 8.0, Trout 10.7, and Jackson 5.3. All of those numbers were in the past two seasons and are significantly higher than Jones best. Jones has had 1 season where he "led" his team to the playoffs. That one season is makes him a more consistent player than Flacco? You have absolutely zero argument. If Flacco is replaced by an average QB we dont make the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 seasons, and it's doubtful we have any playoff wins.
[/quote]

The WAR numbers you speak of are CRAP... Jones had 7 game winning hits IIRC last season alone.. so.. 7 games made the difference of making the playoffs and being 4th in the division. 162 games weeds out thoughts of lacking consistency. You want to spit out SABRE metrics crap... but if you do that for Flacco... he's average ( which I don't agree with). So, use those type of stats to project Flaccos worth and he's hardly a top 20 QB ( Which I , of course don't agree with) . You mention playoffs... and the Os not making it. Yeah, that was Jones' fault.. Pitching staffs with nearly 5.0 ERA don't make the playoffs. If you look at Jones career numbers, and extrapolate them with the rate he's improving... Hes probably at a or near HOF level... If you do the same with Flaccos ( in game stats, not wins ) he's in-line with a mid-level QB.

[elliot]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1365044002' post='1424344']
For what? Bat boy? I think our current one has him beat...
[/quote] It Was a joke, son, A JOKE! I think I posted the same thing about Kyle Boller being available to the Ravens on another thread. I had to listen to the game today on the radio. Can anyone explain what happend in Rays ninth with Longoria running past annother runner and being called out? It wasn't made clear by announcers. I thought as long as he didn't touch a base before the other runner, he was ok.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='elliot' timestamp='1365120282' post='1425207']
It Was a joke, son, A JOKE! I think I posted the same thing about Kyle Boller being available to the Ravens on another thread. I had to listen to the game today on the radio. Can anyone explain what happend in Rays ninth with Longoria running past annother runner and being called out? It wasn't made clear by announcers. I thought as long as he didn't touch a base before the other runner, he was ok.
[/quote]

You thought wrong. :-)

One runner may not pass another. It happened in clear view of the ump and he was immediately (and properly) called out. The camera angles were bad, but eventually they got one that showed the pass.

[elliot]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1365120856' post='1425214']
You thought wrong. :-)

One runner may not pass another. It happened in clear view of the ump and he was immediately (and properly) called out. The camera angles were bad, but eventually they got one that showed the pass.
[/quote] Thanks. I learned something.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365120024' post='1425198']
The WAR numbers you speak of are CRAP... Jones had 7 game winning hits IIRC last season alone.. so.. 7 games made the difference of making the playoffs and being 4th in the division. 162 games weeds out thoughts of lacking consistency. You want to spit out SABRE metrics crap... but if you do that for Flacco... he's average ( which I don't agree with). So, use those type of stats to project Flaccos worth and he's hardly a top 20 QB ( Which I , of course don't agree with) . You mention playoffs... and the Os not making it. Yeah, that was Jones' fault.. Pitching staffs with nearly 5.0 ERA don't make the playoffs. If you look at Jones career numbers, and extrapolate them with the rate he's improving... Hes probably at a or near HOF level... If you do the same with Flaccos ( in game stats, not wins ) he's in-line with a mid-level QB.
[/quote]

LOL OK, so I give you actual numbers and you call them crap? How many games did the Orioles lose because Jones made an error in the outfield or because he struck out when there was a runner on 3rd with less the 2 outs? How about the playoff game where he lost Jeter's flyball that directly led to us losing? Jones is at a HOF pace LMAO. You have to be kidding right? Flacco is far close to a HOF level play than Jones. 5 seasons of excellent production from the QB position compared to one season! I am done with this because you have nothing! Seriously, you have NO argument.

[H8R]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365121077' post='1425217']


LOL OK, so I give you actual numbers and you call them crap? How many games did the Orioles lose because Jones made an error in the outfield or because he struck out when there was a runner on 3rd with less the 2 outs? How about the playoff game where he lost Jeter's flyball that directly led to us losing? Jones is at a HOF pace LMAO. You have to be kidding right? Flacco is far close to a HOF level play than Jones. 5 seasons of excellent production from the QB position compared to one season! I am done with this because you have nothing! Seriously, you have NO argument.
[/quote]

You give me convoluted numbers on Jones, but then didn't expect me to flip the script and apply them to Flacco? You're calling out individual plays? I can do that for Flacco for many instances.. AFCCG int to Polamalu. STRIP/Sack/Fumble against Harrison, Polamalu stripping him to lose a game..Doesn't mean he's not a great player. Jones is a RARE 5 tool player. Say what you want.. I believe it , most of baseball believes it.. Jim Palmer, Cal, Brady, BUCK all believe it..

I have plenty argument . Gold Gloves, All-Star appearances , Team MVPs, plenty of game winning moments, spectacular defensive plays. Jones is trending up, as is Flacco. Jones and Flacco have similar cileings but Jones certainly isn't lower.

[The Raven]

Lol comparing athletes from COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPORTS

It's futile.

Anyway, I am further convinced that B-Rob's body is comprised of paper and glue.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365121638' post='1425220']
You give me convoluted numbers on Jones, but then didn't expect me to flip the script and apply them to Flacco? You're calling out individual plays? I can do that for Flacco for many instances.. AFCCG int to Polamalu. STRIP/Sack/Fumble against Harrison, Polamalu stripping him to lose a game..Doesn't mean he's not a great player. Jones is a RARE 5 tool player. Say what you want.. I believe it , most of baseball believes it.. Jim Palmer, Cal, Brady, BUCK all believe it..

I have plenty argument . Gold Gloves, All-Star appearances , Team MVPs, plenty of game winning moments, spectacular defensive plays. Jones is trending up, as is Flacco. Jones and Flacco have similar cileings but Jones certainly isn't lower.
[/quote] Look at what I've started. I should never post in this thread again. All ten O's games I have been too they lost. And now the one A's game I went to they lost. WHY CAN'T I WIN?

[H8R]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365122805' post='1425237']
Look at what I've started. I should never post in this thread again. All ten O's games I have been too they lost. And now the one A's game I went to they lost. WHY CAN'T I WIN?
[/quote]

So, Mr. Irrelevant is relevant to team success !!! hahha : P

Jones also isn't surrounded by a team of HOFs like Flacco : P

[H8R]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365122805' post='1425237']
Look at what I've started. I should never post in this thread again. All ten O's games I have been too they lost. And now the one A's game I went to they lost. WHY CAN'T I WIN?
[/quote]

So, Mr. Irrelevant is relevant to team success !!! hahha : P

Jones also isn't surrounded by a team of HOFs like Flacco : P

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365122666' post='1425236']
Lol comparing athletes from COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPORTS

It's futile.

Anyway, I am further convinced that B-Rob's body is comprised of paper and glue.
[/quote]

Yes.. it is.. and Yes it is.. lol

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365122998' post='1425242']
So, Mr. Irrelevant is relevant to team success !!! hahha : P

Jones also isn't surrounded by a team of HOFs like Flacco : P
[/quote]
The year I move away from Bmore is the year the O's do good, and we win the SB. *wonders what happens when I go to O's at A's this year*

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365123176' post='1425246']

The year I move away from Bmore is the year the O's do good, and we win the SB. *wonders what happens when I go to O's at A's this year*
[/quote]If you could just walk around candlestick that would be great.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Cville&#045;Raven' timestamp='1365128566' post='1425328']
If you could just walk around candlestick that would be great.
[/quote]
I could go to PIT for awhile

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365129002' post='1425333']

I could go to PIT for awhile
[/quote]sounds good to me

[FerrariFan87]

Poor B-Rob, but it was inevitable... thought he'd last more than 3 games though

In other news, my dad won tickets to Opening Day at work this afternoon! So happy

[elliot]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365123176' post='1425246']
The year I move away from Bmore is the year the O's do good, and we win the SB. *wonders what happens when I go to O's at A's this year*
[/quote] Rainout.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Cville&#045;Raven' timestamp='1365129092' post='1425334']
sounds good to me
[/quote]
Good news is effectively I have eliminated the niners as competition.

Bad news. Seattle now gets a wide open shot


As for Os news, is Markakus still pitcher?

[codizzle]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365129536' post='1425347']

As for Os news, is Markakus still pitcher?
[/quote]

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