119 replies to this topic

[Purple_ICE 81]

had to make a seperate thread for em. At the end of the 2012 college season Jarvis Jones was anywhere from number 1 to number 5 on most experts, and scouts big boards. Recently his stock has been scrutinized.

Obviously for those who dont know in 2009 while playing for USC Jarvis Jones took a stinger, and was pronounced with a Mild case of Spinal Stenosis which is a a narrowing of the spinal column. USC doctors told Jarvis Jones he was severely injured and should never play football again. Jarvis felt fine and wanted to go out and get a second opinion. After going to several different specialists saying he can play after taking a year off, Jones went to the University of Georgia in 2011.

He played exceptional in 2011 recording 70 tackles 19 tackles for loss 13.5 sacks, and forced 2 fumbles and a pick 6. In 2012 he played even better with 85 tackles, 24.5 tackles for loss, 14.5 sacks, 7 forced fumbles and an interception. He looked like a beast very tenacious pass rusher.

With the combine nearing, he has gotten a little out of shape and has pulled out of the combine. He has been attending a speed camp where he works out and is getting himself ready for his March 21st pro day where he will showcase his talents.

Jarvis Jones did have his medical exam at the combine, although it was confirmed that he does have a history of spinal stenosis, doctors checked him out as ok. Jones said "I feel ok, I dont have no contusion on my spine or nothing like that". As always he feels 110%. Due to this a few teams have questioned whether to take him in the first round, and some see his draft stock falling.

Jones is my favorite prospect for 2013 I see a lot of talent in this guy. He has overcome a lot of adversity in his life...from his brother being murdered in 2005 and USC doctors telling him Dont play football anymore. He always seems to find a way to shut people up, and prove them wrong.

Im not saying he is the next Von Miller, Im not saying he will be a rookie pro bowler...all Im saying is this kid has talent and more than just a physical set of skills but a mental set of skills as well, he has a good mind set when it comes to the game of football.

Here are some highlight videos what do you guys think of Jarvis Jones after a lot of mixed opinions?

[Purple_ICE 81]

[ravensdfan]

I read an article about him a few weeks ago and the first thing I thought was this kid sounds like a Raven. The most important aspect that I respected, was his attitude after the doctors told him not to play. He wanted his second opinion, can't blame him for that, but he was also accepting of the fact that he might not ever play again.

I don't really follow college football closely though, so not sure if there's a spot for him. He might not even fall far enough for us to nab him either.

[GrimCoconut]

My concerns:
1.) I read he didn't do a lot of working out & game planning. He went out there and just naturally dominated on Saturday. It's both impressive and concerned because that means he has natural talent & athleticism but it also means he could have problems at the next level because that won't cut it on Sunday, Thursday or Monday.
2.) Spinal stenosis can be a death sentence in terms of football and in general. This isn't an ACL here. We're talking about an injury/condition that has prematurely ended great football careers.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

My concerns:
1.) I read he didn't do a lot of working out & game planning. He went out there and just naturally dominated on Saturday. It's both impressive and concerned because that means he has natural talent & athleticism but it also means he could have problems at the next level because that won't cut it on Sunday, Thursday or Monday.
2.) Spinal stenosis can be a death sentence in terms of football and in general. This isn't an ACL here. We're talking about an injury/condition that has prematurely ended great football careers.

Agreed with above. But can be a great player on the next level

[GrimCoconut]

Agreed with above. But can be a great player on the next level

He's a major risk. Major. He's the definition of boom vs. bust. He could be the next Von Miller or the next Sergio Kindle, though that's sort of unfair to Kindle since the stairs was a freak accident.

[Purple_ICE 81]

My concerns:
1.) I read he didn't do a lot of working out & game planning. He went out there and just naturally dominated on Saturday. It's both impressive and concerned because that means he has natural talent & athleticism but it also means he could have problems at the next level because that won't cut it on Sunday, Thursday or Monday.
2.) Spinal stenosis can be a death sentence in terms of football and in general. This isn't an ACL here. We're talking about an injury/condition that has prematurely ended great football careers.

He put 2 solid [profanity deleted] seasons in at Georgia with the condition, I think if there were any serious concern especially with the spine, or contacious vertabralis there would be early brewed signs. Usually a sense of numbing in the legs or back...he got pulled, yanked, twisted, and contorted by doctors and they couldnt find any symptoms or real concerns. The only probable measure they found was a minor septor of the medial spinal column from an MRI if they gave him one which they prbably did... in the back. So its not as bad as people think. He has yet to have a setback in the nearly 3 years since getting the stinger. And doctors give him the A OK...sure there is a long term risk and he may be a bit more injury prone then the next guy but you have ti ask yourself is it worth the risk. Your not paying him 10 million a year, and its going to be nothing over a 4 year deal. The NFL is a business, and billionaire, successful CEOs in life are the ones who take risks.

[GrimCoconut]

He put 2 solid [profanity deleted] seasons in at Georgia with the condition, I think if there were any serious concern especially with the spine, or contacious vertabralis there would be early brewed signs. Usually a sense of numbing in the legs or back...he got pulled, yanked, twisted, and contorted by doctors and they couldnt find any symptoms or real concerns. The only probable measure they found was a minor septor of the medial spinal column from an MRI if they gave him one which they prbably did... in the back. So its not as bad as people think. He has yet to have a setback in the nearly 3 years since getting the stinger. And doctors give him the A OK...sure there is a long term risk and he may be a bit more injury prone then the next guy but you have ti ask yourself is it worth the risk. Your not paying him 10 million a year, and its going to be nothing over a 4 year deal. The NFL is a business, and billionaire, successful CEOs in life are the ones who take risks.

I hear you. Believe me, I understand. You like JJ. He's a talented prospect. Not taking that away. But spinal cord injuries are of the most serious you can have. Period. Just because he's taken hits doesn't mean anything for the future. Nothing.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I hear you. Believe me, I understand. You like JJ. He's a talented prospect. Not taking that away. But spinal cord injuries are of the most serious you can have. Period. Just because he's taken hits doesn't mean anything for the future. Nothing.

But remember, his potential is sky high

[Purple_ICE 81]

He's a major risk. Major. He's the definition of boom vs. bust. He could be the next Von Miller or the next Sergio Kindle, though that's sort of unfair to Kindle since the stairs was a freak accident.

Johnny Knox had one of the worst spinal injuries an athlete can suffer...a torn vertibrae. He suffered the injury in 2011, got spinal fusion surgery 14 months ago and still walks with a limp. He has recently retired from football. Jones had minor spinal stenosis...signs of "a stinger" slight numbness in the arms and such. Many NFL players revive from stingers in the past. Its not like Jones broke his neck or something, more of just a slight tear.

[GrimCoconut]

http://www.austinchr...pinal-stenosis/

According to Dr. Hecht, players with spinal stenosis are at increased risk of stingers. However, they are also at risk for a more serious condition called cervical cord neuropraxia. Dr. Hecht had much to say about cervical cord neuropraxia, but the main distinguishing difference in this condition and a stinger is the presence of these symptoms in multiple limbs; both arms, both legs, or an arm and a leg.

However...

With all this said, Dr. Hecht was extremely clear about one thing. "Congenital spinal stenosis is not a contraindication of playing football."
In other words, you can play with it. Nothing about spinal stenosis indicates that you can't.
In fact, research shows that players with spinal stenosis are at no greater risk of devastating spinal cord injury than any other player with a normal-sized spinal canal. This flies in the face of what one could logically expect, but it is indeed the case

I'm unbiased.

And then here we go...

It means the same thing it meant for Michael Irvin, Sterling Sharpe, Marcus McNeill, and Chris Samuels. Pro Bowlers whose careers were ultimately cut short by the condition.

In other words, former Cowboys WR Michael Irvin is remembered for many things, but never as "the player who had spinal stenosis."

As I said, the definition of boom or bust.

[GrimCoconut]

I used to be a radiologist and diagnosed atleast 15 cases of narrow spinal canals and honestly there was probably a few cases that were serious...5% of stenosis cases require surgery and there is a huge chance for recovery. I have also rehabilitated cases of narrowed spinal canals and have had good recoveries as well. a friend of mine who came in for spinal rehab is an IFBB pro body builder. He was in a power lifting competition and attempted to deadlift 800lbs...as he went up he felt numbness in his arms and legs like they automatically fell asleep. He suffered a severe stinger and his MRI that I took showed severe seperation of his spinal canal. It took him a little over a year but he got through the intense medication and physical therapy. That injury was 3 years ago, I was in San Diego last summer, and I lifted weights with him at World Gymnasium every day I was there. He bench presses 425 squats 600lbs and still attempts to deadlift that 800lbs and has succeeded at doing it. I am confident that Jones and his minor case of stenosis can go have a great healthy career. Im sure he will feel symptoms down the road but they will become more slight as they come while the spine heals over time.

I want to make it clear: my biggest issue with JJ isn't the stenosis; it's the reports of poor work ethic during the week & relying on natural talent on Saturday. I'm concerned about that.

[Purple_ICE 81]

http://www.austinchr...pinal-stenosis/



However...



I'm unbiased.

And then here we go...




As I said, the definition of boom or bust.

I used to be a radiologist and diagnosed atleast 15 cases of narrow spinal canals and honestly there was probably a few cases that were serious...5% of stenosis cases require surgery and there is a huge chance for recovery. I have also rehabilitated cases of narrowed spinal canals and have had good recoveries as well. a friend of mine who came in for spinal rehab is an IFBB pro body builder. He was in a power lifting competition and attempted to deadlift 800lbs...as he went up he felt numbness in his arms and legs like they automatically fell asleep. He suffered a severe stinger and his MRI that I took showed severe seperation of his spinal canal. It took him a little over a year but he got through the intense medication and physical therapy. That injury was 3 years ago, I was in San Diego last summer, and I lifted weights with him at World Gymnasium every day I was there. He bench presses 425 squats 600lbs and still attempts to deadlift that 800lbs and has succeeded at doing it. I am confident that Jones and his minor case of stenosis can go have a great healthy career. Im sure he will feel symptoms down the road but they will become more slight as they come while the spine heals over time.

[Purple_ICE 81]

I want to make it clear: my biggest issue with JJ isn't the stenosis; it's the reports of poor work ethic during the week & relying on natural talent on Saturday. I'm concerned about that.

C'mon thats every college players story. Look at Sam Montgomery LSU...dude admitted to sitting out ENTIRE GAMES when he wanted to. Jones is working hard now...I guess when his pro day comes around we will see, but I have nothing to say now because like I said in the original post he is out of football shape at the moment ie opting out of the combine...but is working hard to improve for his pro day which a lot of talented players are doing.

Edited by Purple_ICE 81, 23 February 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

C'mon thats every college players story. Look at Sam Montgomery LSU...dude admitted to sitting out ENTIRE GAMES when he wanted to. Jones is working hard now...I guess when his pro day comes around we will see, but I have nothing to say now because like I said in the original post he is out of football shape at the moment ie opting out of the combine...but is working hard to improve for his pro day which a lot of talented players are doing.

You must think I dislike Jones. I love him as a prospect. I'd be happy with us drafting him if we did. He's just a risk. That's all. All players are. Heck, Arthur Jones is a risk with that shoulder. Te'o's a risk with his drama. JJ has two big risks: injury & most important the practice thing.

I'm not a fan of Sam.

[Purple_ICE 81]

Honestly concussions are worse then spinal stenosis injuries in my opinion. If you go look at the hit Austin Collie took during the eagles game a year or 2 ago his whole body tremored...thats what you call minior cerebral hemmhoraging right there, a major cause to severe brain damage later on down the road. Think of all the players who suffer concussions every week

[Purple_ICE 81]

You must think I dislike Jones. I love him as a prospect. I'd be happy with us drafting him if we did. He's just a risk. That's all. All players are. Heck, Arthur Jones is a risk with that shoulder. Te'o's a risk with his drama. JJ has two big risks: injury & most important the practice thing.

I'm not a fan of Sam.

I understand and very much respect your and a lot of people on these forums ratings of prospects...better than mine in many aspects your a great Mel Kiper Jr...Jr haha. all im saying is that I have seen this injury before in a major athlete who had it worse than Jones does and he is just as strong as he ever was. I have hope for Jones and am trying to express the fact that it is not as bad and not as much of a risk than you think.

[GrimCoconut]

I understand and very much respect your and a lot of people on these forums ratings of prospects...better than mine in many aspects your a great Mel Kiper Jr...Jr haha. all im saying is that I have seen this injury before in a major athlete who had it worse than Jones does and he is just as strong as he ever was. I have hope for Jones and am trying to express the fact that it is not as bad and not as much of a risk than you think.

I work in the medical field at a major hospital in downtown Baltimore where the Ravens go. I'll leave it at that. I provide care to people with sports injuries. I well understand the complications of injuries so we're good there.

The injury concern isn't my biggest issue. It's one of them. I mean, he does have spinal stenosis and it ended careers of Pro Bowl players. As Sizzle and I discussed before, the question is are you OK with him having a 5-year career if that's the case? Possible. I might say go ahead, take the 5 good years and milk it and win another two SBs. If he gets you to win two more SBs, then if his career is over in 5 years that's not such a bad deal.

I'm just concerned about the red flag about his work ethic. It wouldn't be a big deal if he was in football shape. But he's not. Then on top of it, he has this medical condition. On top of that, he relies a lot on his natural talent, skill for the position & instincts, as well as natural athleticism. He's a phenomenal talent. Really. He's just as I have repeated about him for a while now--the definition of boom or bust.

I'd love him here.

[Purple_ICE 81]

I work in the medical field at a major hospital in downtown Baltimore where the Ravens go. I'll leave it at that. I provide care to people with sports injuries. I well understand the complications of injuries so we're good there.

You work at Johns Hopkins?

[GrimCoconut]

You work at Johns Hopkins?

That's not where the Ravens go.