2013 BR.com Mock Draft: Restricted Free Agency

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361420049' post='1363682']
Yes it really is overpaying
[/quote]

It's not really a strong FA class for CBs though, he is arguably the top CB available.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1361420977' post='1363692']
He is very talented but it's tough to say whether he is worth 8M (and a second round pick). That would mean he is a #1 corner and shut down #1 receivers, he def has the potential to but don't know if he's quite there yet.
[/quote]

Well he is young, and getting better. I wouldnt offer that much, but I could see why a team who has a big need would.

[Alexir]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1361411205' post='1363577']
All I'm saying is outside of what Arnie said in the beginning, nothing was really given to explain restricted free agency. I think there's part blame on Alexir for not understanding he no longer had his original pick when Arnie posted it in this very thread (I believe). I think we could have done a better job with explaining conditions, such as "if you have two 2nd round picks, then..." or "if you do not have your original 2nd round pick, then...". But to go and just not have anything in the rules about this...well, it doesn't make sense. It makes even less sense when people have traded all around as much as we have.
[/quote]

Just went back to see what you were talking about. My bid came in BEFORE Arnie posted that.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361421868' post='1363696']
Never saw anything saying it had to be my orignal 2nd around pick but that I had to have a 2nd round pick.
[/quote]

Yeah, no one ever said that until the process had already started. I think you should get him personally.

[Alexir]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1361422116' post='1363702']
Yeah, no one ever said that until the process had already started. I think you should get him personally.
[/quote]

If people think that is unfair, I am just curious why.

I didn't break any rules. If rules were not in place when I made the pick, how is that my fault?

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1361421941' post='1363698']
It's not really a strong FA class for CBs though, he is arguably the top CB available.
[/quote]
Poor logic. Just because he is the best cb available doesnt mean you should overpay a talent that isn't there. That's not saying Shields isn't talented, but 8 million and a second round is clearly more than he is worth.

[Alexir]

Matter of fact, I am not finding any official NFL document that says such.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361422262' post='1363704']
Poor logic. Just because he is the best cb available doesnt mean you should overpay a talent that isn't there. That's not saying Shields isn't talented, but 8 million and a second round is clearly more than he is worth.
[/quote]

7 million. You deduct the 1 million because I'd be giving up the 2nd round pick worth 1 million.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361422262' post='1363704']

Poor logic. Just because he is the best cb available doesnt mean you should overpay a talent that isn't there. That's not saying Shields isn't talented, but 8 million and a second round is clearly more than he is worth.
[/quote]It's not as bad as the move for EDS

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361422407' post='1363706']
7 million. You deduct the 1 million because I'd be giving up the 2nd round pick worth 1 million.
[/quote]
That decreases the cap hit, not the cost. If anything you're giving up 9-10 million (depending on how you value the second rounder) in cash and assets for him.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361422042' post='1363700']


Just went back to see what you were talking about. My bid came in BEFORE Arnie posted that.
[/quote]
Well, my bad. I'm for putting it to a vote but it doesn't look like it would even pass TBH.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1361422116' post='1363702']


Yeah, no one ever said that until the process had already started. I think you should get him personally.
[/quote]
Agreed. I'd like to put it to a vote. Can we? I mean, we put everything else to a vote. I personally think Alexir should get Shields as well.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361422262' post='1363704']
Poor logic. Just because he is the best cb available doesnt mean you should overpay a talent that isn't there. That's not saying Shields isn't talented, but 8 million and a second round is clearly more than he is worth.
[/quote]

Matter of opinion.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361422262' post='1363704']

Poor logic. Just because he is the best cb available doesnt mean you should overpay a talent that isn't there. That's not saying Shields isn't talented, but 8 million and a second round is clearly more than he is worth.
[/quote]Being logical isn't always the best option.

[Alexir]

A. Was never stated in Forum rules.
B. Was never stated on first post of this thread.
C. Can't even see where it says it as an official NFL rule.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1361423033' post='1363713']
Being logical isn't always the best option.
[/quote]
Tell that to the Oakland and Cleveland

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361423043' post='1363714']
A. Was never stated in Forum rules.
B. Was never stated on first post of this thread.
C. [b]Can't even see where it says it as an official NFL rule.[/b]
[/quote]
scroll up on page 8. Grim Coconuts took an excerpt out from the rules.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361423265' post='1363717']
scroll up on page 8. Grim Coconuts took an excerpt out from the rules.
[/quote]

That is very inconclusive.

"...original pick or better"

Do not have an original pick but I have a 2nd round pick. What that language means to me is if I had the 32nd pick in the 2nd and I obtained the 1st pick of the 2nd round via trade, I can offer the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

Never says I can't use a 2nd round pick I traded for if I don't have an original 2nd.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361423224' post='1363716']
Tell that to the Oakland and Cleveland
[/quote]

Shields was Green Bays best cornerback last year and is a top 15 corner, and very young.

[Alexir]

Either way, let me know what you guys decide and more importantly why.

I just want a legit reason because I've spoke my peace. No hard feelings either way, just want to know one way or another.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361423700' post='1363719']
That is very inconclusive.

"...original pick or better"

Do not have an original pick but I have a 2nd round pick. What that language means to me is if I had the 32nd pick in the 2nd and I obtained the 1st pick of the 2nd round via trade, I can offer the 1st pick of the 2nd round.

Never says I can't use a 2nd round pick I traded for if I don't have an original 2nd.
[/quote]
It says you have to use your original pick or one better than your original pick. That seems pretty clear. Oakland must offer anywhere between pick 33-35 in order to place a valid bid (since the tender is second round)

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361423787' post='1363721']
Shields was Green Bays best cornerback last year and is a top 15 corner, and very young.
[/quote]
He said being illogical isn't always the best method. I gave him two franchises who have been very illogical and as a result have been exceptionally mediocre for a long time. (Russel over Megatron, Passed on Larry Fitz for another bust, DHB, Sebastian Janikowski in the first etc... and thats just Oakland)

As for Shields being a top 15 corner, i'm not 100% sure about that but i'm busy write now so I don't have time to actually think about it. I can certainly think of at least 10 he is worse than tho. The last five im sure I could come up with too, but until I do I'll withhold judgment.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361424048' post='1363723']
It says you have to use your original pick or one better than your original pick. That seems pretty clear. Oakland must offer anywhere between pick 33-35 in order to place a valid bid (since the tender is second round)
[/quote]

Not pretty clear when that original pick was traded in a previous season. There is no ammendment saying that "if an original pick was traded away in a previous year...".

It says Original pick or greater which to me means if your original pick is a 1st and your traded pick is a 3rd, you would have to use your original pick. It's very subjective.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361424439' post='1363728']
[b]Not pretty clear when that original pick was traded in a previous season. There is no ammendment saying that "if an original pick was traded away in a previous year..."[/b].

It says Original pick or greater which to me means if your original pick is a 1st and your traded pick is a 3rd, you would have to use your original pick. It's very subjective.
[/quote]
Read it again

Oh cut the crap. It says you have to offer the tender placed and a greater contract. The tender place is a second round meaning that the original pick they are referring to is Oakland's second round selection.

Also be glad you got saved from overpaying for Shields anyway


Revis
Cromartie
Sherman
Browner
Jennings
Tillman
Flowers
Peterson
Carr
Claiborne
Webb
Taylor
Haden
Jonathan Joseph
LeonHall
Finnegan
Bailey
Jenkins

In no order obv, but all of those are better than Shields. Thats 18 off the top of my head, Im sure I can find two more.

[stm85]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361424673' post='1363729']
Read it again

Oh cut the crap. It says you have to offer the tender placed and a greater contract. The tender place is a second round meaning that the original pick they are referring to is Oakland's second round selection.

Also be glad you got saved from overpaying for Shields anyway


Revis
Cromartie
Sherman
Browner
Jennings
Tillman
Flowers
Peterson
Carr
Claiborne
Webb
Taylor
Haden
Jonathan Joseph
LeonHall
Finnegan
Bailey
Jenkins

In no order obv, but all of those are better than Shields. Thats 18 off the top of my head, Im sure I can find two more.
[/quote]

Chris Gamble and Vontae Davis

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1361424788' post='1363731']
Chris Gamble and Vontae Davis
[/quote]
thank you

[stm85]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361424912' post='1363733']
thank you
[/quote]

Shields is damn good to be fair, though. I might put him above some others on your list, like Claiborne and Janoris Jenkins

[Alexir]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1361424673' post='1363729']
Read it again

Oh cut the crap. It says you have to offer the tender placed and a greater contract. The tender place is a second round meaning that the original pick they are referring to is Oakland's second round selection.

Also be glad you got saved from overpaying for Shields anyway


Revis
Cromartie
Sherman
Browner
Jennings
Tillman
Flowers
Peterson
Carr
Claiborne
Webb
Taylor
Haden
Jonathan Joseph
LeonHall
Finnegan
Bailey
Jenkins

In no order obv, but all of those are better than Shields. Thats 18 off the top of my head, Im sure I can find two more.
[/quote]

Cut the crap? Calm down, I am just saying it is not as cut and dry as you are making it. AGAIN, it says nothing regarding the lack of original pick during time of RFA bidding but that you mush have a 2nd if bidding on a player with a 2nd round tender.

Also Jenkins? Hall? Ike Taylor is good but what does he have to offer at his age that Shields can't do at his age?

Jenkins and Hall both had great years but are they consistently good year in and year out? Not saying Shields is or isn't, just saying Shields is 1 of 64 starting cornerbacks and is better than more than half of them.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1361424992' post='1363736']
Shields is damn good to be fair, though. I might put him above some others on your list, like Claiborne and Janoris Jenkins
[/quote]
Jenkins had a phenomenal year and while his sample size is small, when you factor in Shields durability issues, and the fact that his sample size is only slight larger you can see why I would rate him above Shields

As for Claiborne, you can make that argument I suppose but there was a point when the Cowboys were healthy that they were the number 1 pass defense and I can only assume Claiborne was a big reason why. Carr was too of course, but still.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1361425565' post='1363738']
Cut the crap? Calm down, I am just saying it is not as cut and dry as you are making it. AGAIN, it says nothing regarding the lack of original pick during time of RFA bidding but that you mush have a 2nd if bidding on a player with a 2nd round tender.

Also Jenkins? Hall? Ike Taylor is good but what does he have to offer at his age that Shields can't do at his age?
[/quote]
There really isn't anything unclear about what it says. It is that cut and dry.

[color=#292929][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)][b]Any Club that does not have available, in the upcoming Draft, the selection choice or choices[/b] ([b]its own or better choices in the applicable rounds[/b]) needed to provide Draft Choice Compensation in the event of a timely First Refusal Exercise Notice may not sign an Offer Sheet in such circumstances. [/background][/color]

[color=#292929][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Doesn't get anymore cut and dry than that. [/background][/color]

Jenkins had 70+ tackles, 4 picks, 14 passes defended and a touchdown. He also has not missed a game injury wise (missed one for violating team rules but was healthy)

By contrast, Shields best year was 4 ints, 45 tackles, and 12 passes defended. He also has had some injury issues

Numbers dont lie. Jenkins has a small sample size but factoring shields injuries and the fact that he doesn't have that large of a sample size either and you come to my conclusion.