Jason LaCanfora: Ravens to let Williams, Kruger walk; attempt to Re-sign Flacco, Reed, Elerbe

[JO_75]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360724995' post='1356193']
I could see him having success with GB. Moving him and Clay around to create matchups would be good for him. I wish we could keep him. Somebody's gonna get a hard working class act.

I though Kruger leading the 7 Nation Army Chant after a sack could have really taken off.
[/quote]

Saints and Eagles both moving to the 3-4 need a OLB and I can see both pursuing Kruger. The thing about Kruger is that it seemed he became such a great player for us in the playoffs is due to teams doubling Suggs. I think teams may over value Kruger just because teams focused on other players with double teams allowing him to go one on one. I'd like to keep Kruger but I believe due to what I said above, Upshaw can be as successful as Kruger was.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1360724939' post='1356189']
The thing I picked up from watching Kruger is that you can be a dominant pass rusher even as an average athlete, if Upshaw works on his hands theres no reason why he can't be as disruptive.
[/quote]
Difference being Upshaw doesn't have the length or first step. But there's certainly room for courtney to grow.

[PuRock]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1360723074' post='1356149']
Hate to say it, but Kruger walks and he's the next Bart Scott. Played well for us and will be NOTHING for whoever he plays for next.
[/quote]

Nah. Our defense hasn't exactly been in its prime the last two years, Kruger really came on strong despite no Ray Lewis and a half effective Suggs. Kruger will be fine as long as the team who gets him uses him correctly.

Scott, AD, Sharper all had the benefit of playing on a beast defense next to a peak Lewis and other effective players. They were truly a product of our system. I don't know if any guys on this SB team like that.

Besides, Kruger is a good guy. He gets everything he deserves and I hope he suceess. At least we can comfort in knowing that we got him his ring.

[NorthernCaliforniaRaven]

I also think that Krueger would be the player to pass on, with Joe and Ellerbee given priority.

Perhaps Reed would be willing to sign for a little less, with a small buyout option to facilitate him payable in 2014.

The Ravens really need to focus on putting a premium on developing younger players more quickly into their rotations, rather than slowly bring them along. Obviously this upcoming draft is vitally important. Perhaps the Ravens get some additional picks, by packaging some sort of draft maneuvering.

Well, we do have a Front Office with Newsome that has some solid history in choosing players that can contribute. Tighten that channel, grease it with sound decisions guys.

Go Ravens

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1360728036' post='1356283']
Is everybody a bit tired that majority of our players under rookie contract only shows up @ their last year?

Seems to be a pattern.
[/quote]

Not really. That's the way it usually is with rookies. On average, most rookies take a full three years to reach their potential. At least you get to evaluate the talent before giving them a huge contract. Before you would pay a big contract just for where a player was drafted.

[Bingo Baby]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1360722988' post='1356146']


Like someone said in the draft forum, we could always draft Joe Kruger. Replace a Kruger w/ a Kruger.
[/quote]

Keep "dreaming"!!! (see what I did there!)

Har har har

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1360728643' post='1356297']


Not really. That's the way it usually is with rookies. On average, most rookies take a full three years to reach their potential. At least you get to evaluate the talent before giving them a huge contract. Before you would pay a big contract just for where a player was drafted.
[/quote]
You missed the big point! Ahhh! I was hoping you would say it, so I will!

And THIS ladies & gentlemen is EXACTLY why we need to use our young players MORE! So we can SEE what they can do before they are on their last year. Ozzie said this I think two years in a row now. He said he wants to get the young talent more involved so they are not seeing what it is until it's too late.

Part of our success is using vets and that helps us win games. Part of our failure is always using vets to a fault and thus our youth do not get reps nor game experience and thus don't develop as quickly.

[PuRock]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360728909' post='1356302']
You missed the big point! Ahhh! I was hoping you would say it, so I will!

[b]And THIS ladies & gentlemen is EXACTLY why we need to use our young players MORE! [/b]So we can SEE what they can do before they are on their last year. Ozzie said this I think two years in a row now. He said he wants to get the young talent more involved so they are not seeing what it is until it's too late.

Part of our success is using vets and that helps us win games. Part of our failure is always using vets to a fault and thus our youth do not get reps nor game experience and thus don't develop as quickly.
[/quote]

I was thinking about going off on a tangent and talk about how the Ravens don't typically utilize their rookies to their full capabilities until a couple years into their contract. Which plays a part in how they have their best year in their last year.

I agree with you about injecting youth. I think we are going to see a lot more if it in the upcoming couple years.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1360728078' post='1356285']


Saints and Eagles both moving to the 3-4 need a OLB and I can see both pursuing Kruger. The thing about Kruger is that it seemed he became such a great player for us in the playoffs is due to teams doubling Suggs. I think teams may over value Kruger just because teams focused on other players with double teams allowing him to go one on one. I'd like to keep Kruger but I believe due to what I said above, Upshaw can be as successful as Kruger was.
[/quote]

Agreed. Upshaw had a really good rookie season under the radar.

[Ravenslifer]

All of us expected this, I think. Williams and Kruger will no doubt be overpaid by other teams for their outstanding postseasons, but corner is pretty deep on this team already, and Kruger has really had this breakout second half and a somewhat good season lat year after two seasons of nothing. Flacco wasn't going anywhere. Elerbe resigning would be huge, because then we might not have to burn a first or second rounder on an ILB, and could focus on some other positions.

[Bravens292]

this is what i expected. we were freakin out about the losses of redding and JJ but Art Jones and Paul Kruger slowly started to hold their ground. its no different this year. Upshaw and Jimmy will fill in for Paul and Cary and just like every year we've used this strategy, we've come out of it just fine. If true, good move by Ozzie. he knows this business. please get a deal done with ed.

[johnmike72]

If we let Paul Kruger go, maybe we can sign Freddy Kruger. He would be a nightmare for any offense.

[tctony]

Not sure I understand where all this hype for Kruger came from. He had a great stretch, but what has he done other than that? Nothing. But GMs are in love with pass rushers, I guess.

We all knew Cary would be gone after this year. I wouldn't mind keeping him. But he is expendable with Webby coming back, Graham being a baller, Jimmy Smith finally showing potential and Chykie being surprising.

Ellerbe is essential to keep. Same with Joe obviously. Hope Reed stays for a cap friendly price.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1360729587' post='1356312']
I was thinking about going off on a tangent and talk about how the Ravens don't typically utilize their rookies to their full capabilities until a couple years into their contract. Which plays a part in how they have their best year in their last year.

I agree with you about injecting youth. I think we are going to see a lot more if it in the upcoming couple years.
[/quote]

I think that used to be true, but not so much anymore. We have been getting a lot of production the past couple seasons out of 1st and 2nd year players. Part of that is due to injury/need, but I think part of it is also due the way the NFL has progressed. Teams need to get production out of rookies, and not just first or second round picks, in order to counterbalance the massive contracts that are being handed out. Production coming from rookie contracts is a must.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='johnmike72' timestamp='1360730481' post='1356320']
If we let Paul Kruger go, maybe we can sign Freddy Kruger. He would be a nightmare for any offense.
[/quote]

I dont get it.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1360724012' post='1356165']
I dont necessarily agree with this. Kruger is a very good pass-rusher. If he is on a team that already has a good DE/OLB I think he can be just as good if not better. Tennessee, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Atlanta and Seattle are all teams I could see pursuing him.
[/quote]

The thing is he's not a 3 down guy. He's a rotational rusher but a very good one at that. No reason to pay him big money just for that. I'd rather keep Reed as cover safeties are harder to find especially a leader and role model like Ed. Now that Ray is gone a lot of guys are going to need different people to look up to. Some will take leadership roles. Ray would give speeches and talk to these guys every time before games. They don't have that anymore. It's going to be a big change.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360728909' post='1356302']
You missed the big point! Ahhh! I was hoping you would say it, so I will!

And THIS ladies & gentlemen is EXACTLY why we need to use our young players MORE! So we can SEE what they can do before they are on their last year. Ozzie said this I think two years in a row now. He said he wants to get the young talent more involved so they are not seeing what it is until it's too late.

Part of our success is using vets and that helps us win games. Part of our failure is always using vets to a fault and thus our youth do not get reps nor game experience and thus don't develop as quickly.
[/quote]

Well it's not really a fault. We did the first youth movement by letting JJ and Redding go and that took a turn for the worst. The young guys took longer to adjust to Pees system (something we weren't used to having a lot of vets during DC changes) and people wanted Pees out. It worked out in the end but Ravens fans are impatient and overreact to the smallest issues.

Luckily we have a GM, Coach, and Owner who are smart enough not to make decisions on impulse. People said John didn't have the backbone to fire Cam, but if he didn't take the time he did, we probably would have seen Pees gone as well. Just goes to show that patience is a virtue.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1360731052' post='1356333']
The thing is he's not a 3 down guy. He's a rotational rusher but a very good one at that. No reason to pay him big money just for that. I'd rather keep Reed as cover safeties are harder to find especially a leader and role model like Ed. Now that Ray is gone a lot of guys are going to need different people to look up to. Some will take leadership roles. Ray would give speeches and talk to these guys every time before games. They don't have that anymore. It's going to be a big change.
[/quote]

I never said I wanted to keep Kruger. I mean, if he was cheap I would like him back, but certainly not at 8M or whatever. I just think he will have a role on another team and be successful.

[Ravens4Liife]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1360730798' post='1356325']
Not sure I understand where all this hype for Kruger came from. He had a great stretch, but what has he done other than that? Nothing. But GMs are in love with pass rushers, I guess.

We all knew Cary would be gone after this year. I wouldn't mind keeping him. But he is expendable with Webby coming back, Graham being a baller, Jimmy Smith finally showing potential and Chykie being surprising.

Ellerbe is essential to keep. Same with Joe obviously. Hope Reed stays for a cap friendly price.
[/quote]

Watch Kruger's motor. The previous season he notched 5.5 sacks as a rotational pass rusher, this year he got 9 plus 4.5 in post season, in a weak defense that plays zones and bend but don't break. Very rarely would he, Suggs, Ngata, Jones or McPhee have time to get to the QBs before a receiver got open and they dumped it off. Everyone fell off on defense this season.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1360723074' post='1356149']
Hate to say it, but Kruger walks and he's the next Bart Scott. Played well for us and will be NOTHING for whoever he plays for next.
[/quote]

my money is he goes to the colts or jets. You heard it hear first.

[Tiz]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1360722443' post='1356137']
I think that's been the overall consensus on here. No surprises. I do hope we can make Reed a Raven for life at a reasonable price. He's one of those players you would hate to see in another uniform. Reed is a Raven!
[/quote]
This

[flynismo]

[quote name='johnmike72' timestamp='1360730481' post='1356320']
If we let Paul Kruger go, maybe we can sign Freddy Kruger. He would be a nightmare for any offense.
[/quote]

[Joe5Flacco]

We need Joe, they know that, we'll have him signed, Ellerbe would be huge if we can retain him, but I don't like the idea of resigning Reed, just my opinion though.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Joe5Flacco' timestamp='1360735501' post='1356402']
We need Joe, they know that, we'll have him signed, Ellerbe would be huge if we can retain him, but I don't like the idea of resigning Reed, just my opinion though.
[/quote]

I read a article leading up to the Super Bowl about Ed Reed that really drives home why it's important to resign him. It talk about how Reed is just as great of a leader as Ray, but not as vocal. It talked about how Ed teaches other players on defense just how to break down film on opponents. It talks about how Ed Reed has more of a father figure/relationship with young guys then Ray did.

Ed Reed is a different type of guy from Ray, but he's just as valuable as Ray. I also like having Ed around for another few years to help guys like Thompson, O. Brown, C. Brown, Cook and Jackson develop more. In that article it talked about how it was Ed who held the team accountable after a poor practice following the open discussion the team had with Harbs.

I don't think the Ravens will miss Ray's leadership as much, if they re-sign Ed. Also the biggest reason for me in bringing Ed back, who you gonna find better? Ed while clearly losing a step, still has a dominate presence on the back end of the defense.

[PolishRifle]

The best way to secure continued success is to build to your teams strength. Well, the last SB showed clearly, that the Ravens main strength for years to come will be a great offense. I would choose Flacco over anyone in this list, but I do hope we atleast can get a deal done with Ellerbe, who has become a solid contributer.
After our last playoffs I can deal with our defense being just okay as long as we keep our Oline, passing and running game strong.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1360738513' post='1356419']
The best way to secure continued success is to build to your teams strength. Well, the last SB showed clearly, that the Ravens main strength for years to come will be a great offense. I would choose Flacco over anyone in this list, but I do hope we atleast can get a deal done with Ellerbe, who has become a solid contributer.
After our last playoffs I can deal with our defense being just okay as long as we keep our Oline, passing and running game strong.
[/quote]

Man. Time does change everything. So crazy.

Go Ravens either way!

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1360740739' post='1356432']
Man. Time does change everything. So crazy.

Go Ravens either way!
[/quote]

Change or die, right? It's easier to maintain what we have going on on offense, then trying to chase a pipe dream of recreating what we once (many moons ago) had on defense.

[wayne]

I figured this myself. If Kruger was good against the run ( 3 down player ), we probably would resign him but being a situational player and wanting a big offer is a no go. We all figured we would let Cary walk when he didn't sign the contract extension they offered him at the beginning of the year plus we are deep at CB with Jimmy lurking to take the #2 spot ( work on the double moves Jimmy ). Williams was a no brainer to with the emergence of KO... Also, told a lot of you Reed ain't going no where and he will retire a Raven, Ozzie is not stupid. With Ray retiring and losing Ed all at once could be disasterous to our D. One other move I wish they would do if we aren't penalized too much for it and that's to cut McClain and target a ILB in the draft.

[runamuk]

i want ed reed to be a raven til he retires. i am biased and a homer when it comes to him. kruger i will miss . but i am also looking forward to upshaw maturing next year. and seeing some of the young players we have stashed (ir and practice squad) was never a fan of williams i think graham is better and webb will be back

[Oh This Ravens Fan]

Reed may not be able to tackle the broad side of a barn anymore, but he is still as much of a threat in the passing game as he ever was. He makes QBs think twice, hesitate even. He did a fantastic job taking away the deep ball in the playoffs. He is still valuable.