2013 Forum Draft: Voting

[ravens__]

I vote B.

Yes, he is being an [profanity deleted] but revoking his picks won't fix that. Whether you like it or not, he's not actually breaking any rules. I just don't think he should be allowed back next year as it's really not the first time he's pulled a move like that.

[ClintLB8]

Well, if that's how y'all feel then I'm out. Fun is gone. Can't ignore when he trades down two picks then waits several hours, trades down two picks, then when it becomes his time again.. Makes us wait another several hours. It's stupid and I'm not doing it with the rest of my time. Anyone who wants all the updated info on my team PM me. Ill give you everything I got.

[stm85]

3-3 so far

remember, if you don't explicitly state A or B the vote won't be counted

[Yatagarasu]

Official Apology from Corvus Amplus to the 2013 Mock Draft Forum GMs

Trading is part of the game. The 24 hour rule was made not only to help people make their picks in timely fashion, but also to help communicate between GMs in different time zones. I have every right to use those 24 hours just as other GMs. Yes, my actions of trying to trade down is tiresome and it's tiresome for me too. I hate trying to haggle back and forth with multiple teams to get a fair deal. Negotiating with 4 or 5 teams takes time because every team tries to offer very little to move up, therefore I try to ask and wait patiently for more suitable offers. The tentative trades are posted because those are deals where both GMs have somewhat of a direction on or agreed to, but couldn't communicate anymore. The tentative trades are also posted publicly to speed up negotiation by telling other possible traders that these are the ballpark values I want for my trade. I agree that my strategy of trading have rubbed other GMs the wrong way. I experimented in using the impatient card and empty of threat of using all 24 hours together some offers and speed up negotiation. It worked for a little, but has been considered disrespectable to the league. I apologize for being selfish and posting like an arrogant tool. Even though these actions are unethical and annoying, they still have not broken any rules, procedures, or even the BR.com laws. The only things these actions broke are my reputation and integrity as a forum GM and the respect and trust of other fellow GMs. However, I regret of resorting to these methods and wish that I had treated the forum with a better respect and used a different and more straightforward approach to show my intention of trading down. The use of threats of deIaying and using all 24 hours was a poor decision and choice of words on my part. I fully agree and support that the forum GMs have every right to remove an unruly and uncontrollable GM from the league. If my actions are considered unruly and uncontrollable, then I agree and fully support that my removal is for the betterment of the league. However, using the voting system and influencing other GMs to threaten and force a fellow GM to make a selection instead of trading seems unethical and somewhat a misuse of power. I'm grateful that there are plenty of reasonable GMs who uses logic over emotions to settle this issue. The punishment of removing my draft picks, which I worked hard on acquiring through the past months, shows a mob-like mentality of the forum. I hope the forum uses better reasoning and poise, instead of rushing to judgement on this issue. I agree that my actions have already caused irreversible damage to the point that my future continuation with forum is not welcomed and highly denied. That punishment alone should be enough, however taking away draft picks is like taking away the GM's lifeline. I believe it is better to just remove and ban the offending GM instead of limiting or taking away rights of the GM. This apology will give more leverage and consideration to the offended party since they will consider it my last attempt to slow the bleeding I have caused. I have grown weary and tiresome of these motions and so-called Corvus-hunt to the point of apathy. This is my last defense and if the votings of my removal or limiting of my power keep happening, then I will submit a letter of resignation and appoint a new GM to control the Panthers organization. Therefore, let us stop trying to go around this issue with these petty voting procedures and go straightforward on my removal. Until further notice, the Panthers organization will continue its operation and its draft procedures.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1363980215' post='1410538']
Official Apology from Corvus Amplus to the 2013 Mock Draft Forum GMs

Trading is part of the game. The 24 hour rule was made not only to help people make their picks in timely fashion, but also to help communicate between GMs actors different time zones. I have every right to use those 24 hours just as other GMs. Yes, my actions of trying to trade down is tiresome and it's tiresome for me too. I hate trying to haggle back and forth with multiple teams to get a fair deal. Negotiating with 4 or 5 teams takes time because every team tries to offer very little to move up, therefore I try to ask and wait patiently for more suitable offers. The tentative trades are posted because those are deals where both GMs have somewhat of a direction on or agreed to, but couldn't communicate anymore. The tentative trades are also posted publicly to speed up negotiation by telling other possible traders that these are the ballpark values I want for my trade. I agree that my strategy of trading have rubbed other GMs the wrong way. I experimented in using the impatient card and empty of threat of using all 24 hours together some offers and speed up negotiation. It worked for a little, but has been considered disrespectable to the league. I apologize for being selfish and posting like an arrogant tool. Even though these actions are unethical and annoying, they still have not broken any rules, procedures, or even the BR.com laws. The only things these actions broke are my reputation and integrity as a forum GM and the respect and trust of other fellow GMs. However, I regret of resorting to these methods and wish that I had treated the forum with a better respect and used a different and more straightforward approach to show my intention of trading down. The use of threats of deIaying and using all 24 hours was a poor decision and choice of words on my part. I fully agree and support that the forum GMs have every right to remove an unruly and uncontrollable GM from the league. If my actions are considered unruly and uncontrollable, then I agree and fully support that my removal is for the betterment of the league. However, using the voting system and influencing other GMs to threaten and force a fellow GM to make a selection instead of trading seems unethical and somewhat a misuse of power. I'm grateful that there are plenty of reasonable GMs who uses logic over emotions to settle this issue. The punishment of removing my draft picks, which I worked hard on acquiring through the past months, shows a mob-like mentality of the forum. I hope the forum uses better reasoning and poise, instead of rushing to judgement on this issue. I agree that my actions have already caused irreversible damage to the point that my future continuation with forum is not welcomed and highly denied. That punishment alone should be enough, however taking away draft picks is like taking away the GM's lifeline. I believe it is better to just remove and ban the offending GM instead of limiting or taking away rights of the GM. This apology will give more leverage and consideration to the offended party since they will consider it my last attempt to slow the bleeding I have caused. I have grown weary and tiresome of these motions and so-called Corvus-hunt to the point of apathy. This is my last defense and if the votings of my removal or limiting of my power keep happening, then I will submit a letter of resignation and appoint a new GM to control the Panthers organization. Therefore, let us stop trying to go around this issue with these petty voting procedures and go straightforward on my removal. Until further notice, the Panthers organization will continue its operation and its draft procedures.
[/quote]

My question is if you are going to continue to do it or are you going to respect the fact that no GM on this game has enjoyed or supported your actions even if they felt that the punishment didn't fit the crime. If you will respect the other GMs of this game, then ill gladly accept the apology and move on.

[GrimCoconut]

I accept & respect your statement, Corvus, and appreciate you posting that. I was really heated after you kept posting those stupid posts about trades that weren't confirmed or ludicrous trades obviously posted without agreement (Peppers).

I won't vote to strip you of your picks, simply because all I wanted was for you to straighten up your act and behave sensibly. I think you would have been fine and nobody would have been incensed had you simply not posted the whole "take the whole 24 hours" thing. That was a catalyst.

I do agree that the 24 hour rule is necessary since you are trading with GMs in other places. Nobody can be here every minute. I never disliked you but disliked your antics & method of achieving your goal.

Just use your common sense here.

[stm85]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1363980215' post='1410538']
Official Apology from Corvus Amplus to the 2013 Mock Draft Forum GMs

Trading is part of the game. The 24 hour rule was made not only to help people make their picks in timely fashion, but also to help communicate between GMs actors different time zones. I have every right to use those 24 hours just as other GMs. Yes, my actions of trying to trade down is tiresome and it's tiresome for me too. I hate trying to haggle back and forth with multiple teams to get a fair deal. Negotiating with 4 or 5 teams takes time because every team tries to offer very little to move up, therefore I try to ask and wait patiently for more suitable offers. The tentative trades are posted because those are deals where both GMs have somewhat of a direction on or agreed to, but couldn't communicate anymore. The tentative trades are also posted publicly to speed up negotiation by telling other possible traders that these are the ballpark values I want for my trade. I agree that my strategy of trading have rubbed other GMs the wrong way. I experimented in using the impatient card and empty of threat of using all 24 hours together some offers and speed up negotiation. It worked for a little, but has been considered disrespectable to the league. I apologize for being selfish and posting like an arrogant tool. Even though these actions are unethical and annoying, they still have not broken any rules, procedures, or even the BR.com laws. The only things these actions broke are my reputation and integrity as a forum GM and the respect and trust of other fellow GMs. However, I regret of resorting to these methods and wish that I had treated the forum with a better respect and used a different and more straightforward approach to show my intention of trading down. The use of threats of deIaying and using all 24 hours was a poor decision and choice of words on my part. I fully agree and support that the forum GMs have every right to remove an unruly and uncontrollable GM from the league. If my actions are considered unruly and uncontrollable, then I agree and fully support that my removal is for the betterment of the league. However, using the voting system and influencing other GMs to threaten and force a fellow GM to make a selection instead of trading seems unethical and somewhat a misuse of power. I'm grateful that there are plenty of reasonable GMs who uses logic over emotions to settle this issue. The punishment of removing my draft picks, which I worked hard on acquiring through the past months, shows a mob-like mentality of the forum. I hope the forum uses better reasoning and poise, instead of rushing to judgement on this issue. I agree that my actions have already caused irreversible damage to the point that my future continuation with forum is not welcomed and highly denied. That punishment alone should be enough, however taking away draft picks is like taking away the GM's lifeline. I believe it is better to just remove and ban the offending GM instead of limiting or taking away rights of the GM. This apology will give more leverage and consideration to the offended party since they will consider it my last attempt to slow the bleeding I have caused. I have grown weary and tiresome of these motions and so-called Corvus-hunt to the point of apathy. This is my last defense and if the votings of my removal or limiting of my power keep happening, then I will submit a letter of resignation and appoint a new GM to control the Panthers organization. Therefore, let us stop trying to go around this issue with these petty voting procedures and go straightforward on my removal. Until further notice, the Panthers organization will continue its operation and its draft procedures.
[/quote]

If you will respect the other GMs on the forum then I will change my vote to B and I feel as though most owners will not have a problem either. I will admit that this vote, in retrospect, may have been an overreaction, and I simply posted it because other GMs seemed to support it, so I thought an official vote was called for, however it may not have been, and for that I apologize as well. As I said earlier, as long as your previous actions are in the past, then your apology will be happily accepted and we should all be able to move forward.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363972422' post='1410264']

Because its not something anyone has the right to do. Its equally childish and an abuse of rules IMO.
[/quote]I agree and I vote B.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[img]http://www.wallsave.com/wallpapers/1280x800/all-woman/50616/all-woman-fiery-english-alphabet-letter-b-black-cool-fire-50616.jpg[/img]

[T3hRaven]

I accept Corvus' apology and change my vote to B. He's right about one thing, people try to low ball the hell out of you and reject fair offers.

[stm85]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1363986519' post='1410942']
I accept Corvus' apology and change my vote to B. He's right about one thing, people try to low ball the hell out of you and reject fair offers.
[/quote]

I change to B officially as well, if that wasn't clear in my previous post. Let's just move on and continue as if this ugliness didn't happen.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1363986824' post='1410963']


I change to B officially as well, if that wasn't clear in my previous post. Let's just move on and continue as if this ugliness didn't happen.
[/quote]
I think the threat of losing picks was enough to cause Corvus to rethink this a bit. I don't think the vote should even continue. I think it's had its desired effect.

[stm85]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1363988444' post='1411054']
I think the threat of losing picks was enough to cause Corvus to rethink this a bit. I don't think the vote should even continue. I think it's had its desired effect.
[/quote]

Agreed

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1363973747' post='1410336']
Wahhhh, Corvus isn't playing fairly...Wahhhh

Seriously, just ignore him. Rules specify up to 24 hours, just remember that for next year. Don't fight childish behavior with childish behavior
[/quote]
He was abusing the spirit of the rule. The 24 hour rule wasnt meant for negotiations but to account for time zone differences, school, work, and sleep ie situations where you would be unable to make a selection. People who have their priorities in order shouldnt be penalized for that. Corvus has had full ability to make a selection but chooses not to intentionally and continually delaying the process. I dont mind if Corvus takes an hour or 2 to gather interest in a trade, but to take the full amount of time like he has been attempting to do is just insane. If no one made you an offer in 4 hours, what's gonna change in 24? I mean seriously.

[arnie_uk]

***VOTE***

ISSUE: Mt Crushmore trading with his friend outside the forum while he has been inactive ie collusion.

Option 1) We block the trade.

OR

Option 2) We let the trade go through and cursh can make his pick when he's up.

See the trade thread for the discussion of it, the main issue is no one else can contact or reach the Indy owner and this crush had a clear unfair advantage and maybe unwittingly took advantage of this as the Indy owner has lost all interest. If anyone else wanted that pick we had no means of reaching him. Collusion. It has nothing to do with the value of the trade, hence why I haven't posted it.

***VOTING ENDs IN 24 HOURS***

[arnie_uk]

I vote option 1 block the trade

[-Truth-]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1364413256' post='1417549']
***VOTE***

ISSUE: Mt Crushmore trading with his friend outside the forum while he has been inactive ie collusion.

Option 1) We block the trade.

OR

Option 2) We let the trade go through and [b]cursh can make his pick when he's up.[/b]

See the trade thread for the discussion of it, the main issue is no one else can contact or reach the Indy owner and this crush had a clear unfair advantage and maybe unwittingly took advantage of this as the Indy owner has lost all interest. If anyone else wanted that pick we had no means of reaching him. Collusion. It has nothing to do with the value of the trade, hence why I haven't posted it.

***VOTING ENDs IN 24 HOURS***
[/quote]

Crush has already made his selection using that pick.

[Geving]

I vote option 2. I see the argument. But if we aren't even putting extremely lopsided trades like for example Barron for a third to a vote even though people wanted to veto it. I'm not going to vote for stopping this kind of trade, collusion or not. I care more about that kind of unrealistic trades going through when there is obvious exploitation of certain GM's lack of knowledge than this trade going through.

[Sizzlebshu]

I vote option 2 because this is absolutely discriminatory and absurd.

No one gives a damn when two freaking brothers make a trade for Boldin in the actual nfl.

The only reason you even knew he knows the Colts GM is because he told you

If you ban this trade, you're effectively banning all dealings between the 2 and might as well ban one of them from the mock

If anything he spread the process up and was able to keep the mock at pace while dealing with an inactive owner who doesnt want to play anymore.

Seriously if you're gonna do something, ban the colts gm for inactivity but forget this.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1364414420' post='1417577']
I vote option 2 because this is absolutely discriminatory and absurd.

No one gives a damn when two freaking brothers make a trade for Boldin in the actual nfl.

The only reason you even knew he knows the Colts GM is because he told you

If you ban this trade, you're effectively banning all dealings between the 2 and might as well ban one of them from the mock

If anything he spread the process up and was able to keep the mock at pace while dealing with an inactive owner who doesnt want to play anymore.

Seriously if you're gonna do something, ban the colts gm for inactivity but forget this.
[/quote]no, if he done it though the boards when the colts GM is active I'd have no issue with it.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1364413745' post='1417559']


Crush has already made his selection using that pick.
[/quote]has he? Sure it hasn't been confirmed yet

[stm85]

Option 2. Let's not hold up this draft any more than we already have.

Also Crush can't pick because the trade hasn't been confirmed.

[-Truth-]

I vote Option 2. Here's my reasoning:

The term collusion is defined as a, "Secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, esp. in order to cheat or deceive others." Given that the main argument against this trade is regarding the inability of other GMs to communicate with the Colts GM, then the matter at hand should revolve around inactivity. Nothing in the rules ever prevented a GM from reaching another member, regardless of the success rate of other GMs, and there were never any rules prohibiting members from reaching each other members using other means of communication. The only bit of this scenario that would make it constitute as a collusion would be if Mt. Crushmore made an effort to attain this selection by using the Colts GM's lack of interest as leverage. This part has yet to be ruled out, no question. But and as of this moment, it's based on nothing but a mere presumption and possibility of the fact rather than any remotely concrete evidence. If this trade is to be tried on the grounds of it being a collusion, I would believe that it should fit the definition first.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1364414835' post='1417587']
Option 2. Let's not hold up this draft any more than we already have.

Also Crush can't pick because the trade hasn't been confirmed.
[/quote]

He already did pick.

I vote option 1.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1364414835' post='1417587']
Option 2. Let's not hold up this draft any more than we already have.

Also Crush can't pick because the trade hasn't been confirmed.
[/quote]we aren't holding it up, isn't Indy on the clock back to back. So this will be over before he picks.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1364415248' post='1417604']


He already did pick.

I vote option 1.
[/quote]ive just cam to realise this, damn good pick up might I say, but he shouldn't have until Indy confirmed yet.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1364414681' post='1417584']
has he? Sure it hasn't been confirmed yet
[/quote]

He did, but you are correct about it not being confirmed.

[stm85]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1364415248' post='1417604']
He already did pick.

I vote option 1.
[/quote]

Well that pick shouldn't count. I, or any owner, could just as easily post that same trade and pick without having even spoken to the Indy owner and steal that pick more or less. Let's put pick 125 back on the clock and Wilson back in the draft pool.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1364415406' post='1417612']


Well that pick shouldn't count. I, or any owner, could just as easily post that same trade and pick without having even spoken to the Indy owner and steal that pick more or less. Let's put pick 125 back on the clock and Wilson back in the draft pool.
[/quote]this should happen at the minimum at least.. Which means the time on his first pick has past and he now has eight hours left on the second one before its skipped as well. This is the minimum of what should happen

[ClintLB8]

I'm not happy about it.. The guy got a steal but I go option 2.