2013 Forum Draft: Discussion

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1360440495' post='1351972']
I'm going to open a state of the franchise thread tomorrow, and my post will have the necessary layout, everyone follow it, and no discussion in the thread, jo then you can pin it
[/quote]

Sounds good. I figured you would have a good idea of the layout which is why I waited.

[JO_75]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1360440437' post='1351969']
if that's what the bottom line figure is then yes, but also remember your leaving 5.5 stars for the draft. So tech your starting number is 95.5 plus 5.5 so 101.
[/quote]

Ok thank you. After trading for Tebow and acquiring Jalil Brown in the Eugene Monroe trade I now have a salary cap total 100 Million of 127 million used.

[JO_75]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1360440495' post='1351972']
I'm going to open a state of the franchise thread tomorrow, and my post will have the necessary layout, everyone follow it, and no discussion in the thread, jo then you can pin it
[/quote]

I'm just going to copy my post from last year's thread to make it easier on me. Will do.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1360439368' post='1351937']
put in a clause that of the player was originally drafted in round 1 or 2 we will look into it more and then decide what method, because its not fair to someone like the ravens being charged three to first round pitta, when say I dunno someone else like Hernandez was a first round pick yet the pats can original tender him, and only pay half that yet still both our first round picks if someone else wanted to snag them.
[/quote]
What you are talking about is non-existent. First and second round picks never become RFAs. That id why the tiers are set up the way they are. Players drafted later have an opportunity to move up in the pay scale when they become RFAs. They can never go backwards.

[JO_75]

After starting with a salary cap of 101, and the cut of Dawan Landry, trading away Eugene Monroe and the addition of Tim Tebow and Jalil Brown, I have moved my cap down to 95 stars in order to go after some big time players in free agency.

[SecretAgentMan]

I Want Tyrod Taylor!

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360436661' post='1351859']
Technically I traded away Whitworth and got the Titans Offense...
[/quote]
apologies then. But still I mean come on man

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360437020' post='1351867']
I disagree. The Titans are more predicated on defense at this moment than offense. I have a specific plan and I need to rebuild the offense to create it. I'm moving in a different direction from CJ2K and need a different kind of RB to make it work. Britt was traded because he's near the end of his deal and I have very nice receivers in Washington & Wright, whom I just drafted. I also got Marvin Jones, another good WR I liked last year.

I'm very pleased with the trade and feel like I can really move the franchise into a better direction. Hasselbeck is a serviceable QB.

BTW, Sizzle: check your PMs, please.
[/quote]
You traded away every decent piece you have on offense. For a team predicated on defense as you say the rankings surely dont reflect that considering how much they sucked.

Idc like I said I just dont think its realistic to trade away every piece of offensive talent that you spent years of assembling for basically nothing. I mean the picks you have are okay dont get me wrong but I def dont see you winning out on the trade. Cap wise that may be a different story, but still this kind of firesale will usually get a GM fired.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1360442079' post='1352019']
You traded away every decent piece you have on offense. For a team predicated on defense as you say the rankings surely dont reflect that considering how much they sucked.
[/quote]
The defense needs work in the interior at DT. They have some nice pieces but some of them are not working. The DEs are pretty good but can be better. The secondary is no good and needs an upgrade. The secondary is more exposed due to a very poor pass rush. I have a plan.

As for the offense, here is how I see it: CJ2K is not the kind of RB I want. I already asked you about a RB I want for my new offense. I am building an offensive line so I can lean on a very good run game. I don't like Locker at all. I traded a pretty good LT (Roos) for an excellent LT (Whitworth). Stewart's a very good RT. I need to win my division. To win the division, I need to beat the Texans & the Colts & the Jaguars.Two of those three teams are very run-first teams.

Just wait and see my final product.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360442256' post='1352021']
The defense needs work in the interior at DT. They have some nice pieces but some of them are not working. The DEs are pretty good but can be better. The secondary is no good and needs an upgrade. The secondary is more exposed due to a very poor pass rush. I have a plan.

As for the offense, here is how I see it: CJ2K is not the kind of RB I want. I already asked you about a RB I want for my new offense. I am building an offensive line so I can lean on a very good run game. I don't like Locker at all. I traded a pretty good LT (Roos) for an excellent LT (Whitworth). Stewart's a very good RT. I need to win my division. To win the division, I need to beat the Texans & the Colts & the Jaguars.Two of those three teams are very run-first teams.

Just wait and see my final product.
[/quote]
I have no issue with what the final product is going to be, but my problem lies in being allowed to make such a move because while nothing techinically stops the Titans GM from doing this, if he did pull this he would almost assuredly be fired. I guess you can say its an unwritten rule of sorts. You basically gutted the team here and plan to build a new one via FA and hoping rookies pan out which is good on paper, but not in practice as we have seen with teams like Philly

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1360442468' post='1352030']
I have no issue with what the final product is going to be, but my problem lies in being allowed to make such a move because while nothing techinically stops the Titans GM from doing this, if he did pull this he would almost assuredly be fired. I guess you can say its an unwritten rule of sorts.
[/quote]
There were rumors CJ2K would be cut. There were rumors Locker could be cut. Britt is a headache and getting Jones compensates for the lost talent in the final year of a deal with a WR who has been a headache off the field and who has had other issues on the field. Offensive line is the biggest problem with the Titans as well as the defensive line. I didn't trade any ridiculous players of whom I believe are extremely talented. There are some trades I've declined because they are critical to my future franchise. I understand your point but respectably disagree.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360442623' post='1352038']
There were rumors CJ2K would be cut. There were rumors Locker could be cut. Britt is a headache and getting Jones compensates for the lost talent in the final year of a deal with a WR who has been a headache off the field and who has had other issues on the field. Offensive line is the biggest problem with the Titans as well as the defensive line. I didn't trade any ridiculous players of whom I believe are extremely talented. There are some trades I've declined because they are critical to my future franchise. I understand your point but respectably disagree.
[/quote]
Again I just stated why I have a problem with a trade like this. Its perfectly fine since this is a mock and we are only going on paper anyway, but my gripe is exactly what I said.

[SecretAgentMan]

So, what is the date that the draft starts?

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1360442903' post='1352044']
So, what is the date that the draft starts?
[/quote]

No clue. We have to do free agency first.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1360442962' post='1352045']
No clue. We have to do free agency first.
[/quote]
When is that?

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1360442962' post='1352045']
No clue. We have to do free agency first.
[/quote]
I say we shoot for the end of march. It will likely take us a month to get through the significant rounds in the draft.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1360443099' post='1352050']
When is that?
[/quote]
As soon as we work out the rules

[stm85]

When are comp picks announced? We should plan the draft for afterwords so they can be included, as they were last year.

[Clutch Ravens]

Extremely happy picking up Jurrell Casey for a 3rd rounder. You can never have enough defensive line talent and Jurrell Casey if massively over-looked due to guys like Watt and Wilkerson being in the same class.

I'd say adding Casey to a front three that already includes a guy like Campbell gives me one of the better front 3s in the NFL.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='stm85' timestamp='1360443183' post='1352055']
When are comp picks announced? We should plan the draft for afterwords so they can be included, as they were last year.
[/quote]

They are announced at the owners meetings in March.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1360443204' post='1352056']
Extremely happy picking up Jurrell Casey for a 3rd rounder. You can never have enough defensive line talent and Jurrell Casey if massively over-looked due to guys like Watt and Wilkerson being in the same class.

I'd say adding Casey to a front three that already includes a guy like Campbell gives me one of the better front 3s in the NFL.
[/quote]
Jurell Casey for an early 3rd? Wow...he was one if the best DTs in football.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1360443307' post='1352059']
Jurell Casey for an early 3rd? Wow...he was one if the best DTs in football.
[/quote]

Indeed. I picked him up as Denver a couple of years back and have been pleasantly surprised with just how good he has been.

Making it even better is the fact that he's a mere 23 years old. He's the same age as a lot of the guys in this class, while being a proven, top quality commodity.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1360443555' post='1352062']
Indeed. I picked him up as Denver a couple of years back and have been pleasantly surprised with just how good he has been.

Making it even better is the fact that he's a mere 23 years old. He's the same age as a lot of the guys in this class, while being a proven, top quality commodity.
[/quote]
Casey is a good player. Surprisingly, the Titans didn't use Klug at all in 2012 but he was a really good player the year before. I wanted the Ravens to take Casey. I was sad we didn't.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360443736' post='1352066']

Casey is a good player. Surprisingly, the Titans didn't use Klug at all in 2012 but he was a really good player the year before. I wanted the Ravens to take Casey. I was sad we didn't.
[/quote]
But you traded him for a 3rd?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1360444205' post='1352078']

But you traded him for a 3rd?
[/quote]
An early 3rd but a 3rd, yeah. He was cheap, but I wanted the pick for something I have planned. I have good depth with Martin and I like Martin & Klug a lot.

Btw, when are we beginning free agency & tendering our RFAs?

[Dubs]

Amended rules from last year to suit what everyone complained about last year. Discuss. Main issues, free agency, cutting players signed in FA and also stopping, or not stopping some trades

- The 2013 Mock Draft Salary Cap shall be set at 127 stars. (1 Star = 1 Million)

- You cannot restructure contracts. You cannot borrow from future cap space or trade future picks
- Everything is rounded to the nearest Half Star (0.5 Star = ½ Million)


[b]Draft value:[/b]
You have to leave 5.5 stars for the normal draft, which is 1 pick in every round 1 through 7. You add or subtract stars based on whether you have more or less picks than the normal draft allocation. The values of the stars you add or subtract based on your picks are:
[indent=1]§ 1st round = 2 stars[/indent]
[indent=1]§ 2nd round = 1 stars[/indent]
[indent=1]§ 3rd round through 7th round = 0.5 stars each[/indent]
This lets you know many stars you need to leave for your Rookie class…You cannot gain stars by trading away your picks.


[b]TENDERING[/b]

[b]Franchise Tag costs[/b]:[list]
[*]QB - 14.5 stars
[*]RB - 8 stars
[*]WR - 10.5 stars
[*]TE - 6 stars
[*]OL - 9.5 stars
[*]DE - 11 stars
[*]DT - 8.5 stars
[*]LB -9.5 stars
[*]CB - 11 stars
[*]S - 7 stars
[*]K/P - 3 stars
[/list]
Based on [url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000117300/article/franchise-tag-numbers-tentatively-set-2013-cap-near-121m"]NFL.com LINK[/url]

[b]Restricted Free Agents[/b]
You place a tender on all your RFA you want to keep. There are three levels of tender depending on how much you value and want to keep your player. The tenders are:
[indent=1]§ 1st round tender = 3 stars[/indent]
[indent=1]§ 2nd round tender = 2 stars[/indent]
[indent=1]§ Original round tender = 1.5 stars[/indent]
Based on [url="https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/291249914040684544"]Albert Breer Twitter[/url]

Another team can bid on a RFA. You bid on the RFA by offering up a contract of X Stars. The players’ current team then can decide to match the contract which means he stays on his current team but with a salary that was the bid. The team that tried to bid for him cannot counter offer. You can only bid on one player once, however another team can make a higher bid again.

If his current team doesn’t match the offer, the RFA signs for the bidding team at the contract bid for. That team then has to give up the draft pick that was tendered on the RFA.

[b]Exclusive Rights Free Agents[/b]
Exclusive rights Free agents cost 0.5 stars if you want to resign them. They cannot be bid on.

[b]***DATE for RFA, ERFAs and Franchise Tag Tenders to be placed is: [/b]February 22, 2013[b]***[/b]


[b]Cutting Players[/b]
Go to [url="http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/"]SPOTRAC[/url] find a player’s salary for the 2013 year.
How to Navigate Spotrac Website:
[indent=1]§ Choose your team (ex. Baltimore Ravens)[/indent]
[indent=1]§ Click heading “2013 Cap Hits” (Should look like [url="http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap-hit/"]THIS[/url] page)[/indent]
[indent=1]§ Find your player (ex. Terrell Suggs)[/indent]
[indent=1]§ There are Four columns[/indent][list]
[*][b][u]Base Salary (6.4M = 6.5 stars) <-- This is what you save[/u][/b]
[*]Signing Bonus (2.02M = 2 stars)
[*]Other Bonus (4.6M = 4.5 stars)
[*]Cap Figure (13.02M = 13 stars)
[/list]
When you cut the player you [b]ONLY use BASE SALARY[/b], your team incurs all signing and/or other bonuses as dead money to your cap if there is any.
Ex. Cutting Terrell Suggs would mean you would save 6.5 stars

Once the cut player becomes a UFA, he is added to the Free Agency pool. Please try to make your cuts before real FA starts so we have an idea of the cut players available and can add them to the list of available FAs.

Please try and get cuts done before FA for that position.

WE WILL HAVE A THREAD FOR CUTS AND RESIGNINGS TO MAKE FA LISTS EASIER. PLEASE POST EVERY CUT AND RESIGNING IN THIS THREAD AS WELL AS YOUR STATE OF THE FRANCHISE POST.

In the format:
[b]Team[/b]
Postion and Player - stars saved
Example:
[b]Baltimore Ravens[/b]
OLB Terrell Suggs – 6.5 stars


[b]Trades:[/b]
Using previous blue link, if you trade away a player, you get extra stars based on his base salary, or if you trade for a player you lose stars based base salary. Both guys post in the trade thread the details of the trade (in the format that Mt. Crushmore wants).
Example:
[b]Baltimore Ravens get:[/b]
1[sup]st[/sup] rounder (pick 6)
[b]Cleveland Browns get:[/b]
OLB, Terrell Suggs (6.5 stars)
- In this case Baltimore would save 6.5 stars but would need 3 stars for the 1[sup]st[/sup] round pick (savings of 3.5 stars). Cleveland take Suggs base Salary and take off 3 stars from draft pick cap (adding 3.5 stars)

Make sure after you decide on every cut and every trade is confirmed, edit you state of the franchise post (explained later).


[b]How does Free Agency work[/b]?
Free Agency will begin on[b] ???.[/b] There will be one major Free Agency thread, and on the first day we will auction the QB position and list all the available players.

You will have 24 hours to place your bid. Once those 24 hours are up, no more bids can be placed. The Free Agency managers will sort through the winning bids to players at the end and give them to their new owners. Once that position is done, we will move onto the next day and start at RB and so on.

Going through each position at a time will make it much easier to track who is available and who is gone.

We will then have a free for all of all the guys left for a day or two, then again after the draft to fill out your roster.

[b]Bidding on Free Agents:[/b]
If you win the bid you add that FA to your roster as of the 2012 season, don’t worry about the future.

Every GM has an idea on who they want and divvy up their budget according to this.
[indent=1]§ [b]Team Name[/b][/indent]
[indent=1]§ [b]Free Agent[/b][/indent]
[indent=1]§ [b]Bid (# of stars)[/b][/indent]

That’s for the first bid. Then if another team comes in and wants to bid, make sure and read through the thread, quote the highest bid so far (if its a player already bid on) and make sure and post a bid higher. If the first team wants to counter bid, again quote the post (continue to use format above, Team name, Free agent, and stars bid).

We don’t want people not looking for the highest bid and then bidding 6 mil for say Jake Long, when someone has already bid 8.

[b]So rules[/b]

[b]Read thread and find highest bid so far.
Quote said bid and outbid the other team. ALWAYS QUOTE PREVIOUS HIGHEST BID. No Quoting the final 5 minutes is required, but it is up until then.
Do bids in the format above
Can start the bidding at whatever you want, lowest value 0.5 stars.
Bid based on what you want to pay for his 2012 salary only.
No signing bonuses or anything like that[/b]
[b]Highest Bid gets the player[/b]
[b]EDITING BIDS IS NOT ALLOWED. <--[/b][b] Your bid will be discarded if you do[/b]

Coming into the final 5 minutes JO will post in caps and bold "[b]FINAL FIVE MINUTES" [/b]just so we have a clear divide, JO you post it in the discussion thread anyway, so just post it in the FA thread now. If JO can’t be online for whatever reason please PM someone else to do it (Arnie, myself anyone - only one person is in charge of doing it). Then when its over JO (or whoever you PM) posts the Bidding has no closed. (it has to be the same person and only that person is official!!)

Now, anyone that was the bid leader before the final five minutes post, and then gets outbid in the final 5 mins, if they want a chance to bid again on that player, they have to say so in the thread, [b]WITHIN THE NEXT FIVE MINUTES. [/b]Just post "Miami" (team name) where leading on "player name" going into the last five minutes, I want to bid again. Then at [b]7.05 EST [/b]JO or whoever it is posts that final chance to bid is now closed.

JO, I or whoever closes the FA period will PM the GMs involved and they will have to PM them there highest bid they are willing to pay for said player. Both GMs get one chance, and the highest bid wins, in the event of a tie, they will get a pm back and let you have another go.

This doesn’t apply when the first bid on a player was made in the final 5 minutes, just when someone got outbid in the final 5 minutes

1. JO Posts [b]FINAL FIVE MINUTES[/b] when 5 mins left
2. At 7est JO Posts [b]Bidding Over[/b]
3. Then within[b] [i]5 [/i]mins [/b]any GM that was winning prior to 5 mins left, and got out bid in the final 5 mins has to post they want another chance to bid for X player.
4. At [b]7.05 [/b]again JO posts that time is up.
5. JO, I or someone will then PM both GMs and the reply with the highest bid they are prepared to go, winner gets the player.

**If you cut a player you picked up in Free Agency you will have to pay half of the amount you initially signed them for. If you only paid 0.5 stars, you must pay the full 0.5 stars and receive nothing in return upon cutting them.
[indent=1]Ex. Ravens signed Jake Long for 10 stars…than cut him later…they would only save 5 stars from cutting him[/indent]


[b]State of the Franchise Post[/b]
There is a separate thread for your state of the franchise, laid out like this:

[b]Team [/b]

[b]Starting cap[/b] (Ex. [url="http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap-hit/"]Ravens Starting Cap[/url])
- How to find starting cap?
1) Go to your team page and click "2013 cap hits"
2) It is your "top 51 contracts" + your "Dead money" - your "Rollover" = starting Cap
- For this we assume everyone team is taking all their rollover money
3) so ravens starting cap is: 106.5 Million (so 106.5 stars) <----Website does eveything up to this point
4) Add your 8 stars, whatever you have, for the draft (so 106.5 + 5.5 = 114.5 stars) <----You must do this
5) Figure out how much you have left using our cap (so 127 stars - 114.5 stars = 12.5 stars)
6) Spend remaining 12.5 stars how you would like or keep for a rainy day


[b]Draft Pick[/b]
Post every pick you have here
Then do a total of the stars you need to leave for the draft. Score out traded picks, don’t delete them. Add in traded for picks. Include the round and the overall no. of the pick.

[b]Franchise Tag[/b]
Player position amount

[b]RFA[/b]
Player position Tender Amount

[b]EFA[/b]
Player position amount

[b]Cuts[/b]
Player Position Amount saved

[b]Trades[/b]
1. (Your team) trades (player name and salary/ or pick) to (team name) for (player name and salary/ or pick)
2. Same format
3. And so on

[b]Total Saved and Spent[/b]

Cuts: X saved
Trades X Saved/Spent
Franchise: X Spent
RFA: X Spent
EFA: X Spent

Total Spent/Saved

New Total Salary X
Salary Remaining X
Less Draft Allowance X (from above)

Make sure and Update this after every transaction. Remember you must have 53 man rosters.


[b]Threads[/b]
We will have a general discussion thread (this one), trade, cuts and resigning discussion goes in here also.
We will have a thread for all official trades, cuts and resigning’s.
We will have the State of the Franchise thread, to be updated after every transaction.
We will have a Big Board thread for the draft order (Gabe).
We will have a Depth chart thread to be kept up dated regularly, this is a requirement, not a option.
We will have a Rules thread to clarify, discuss and change rules
Then when FA begins we will have threads for that but they won’t be pinned.

In the state of the franchise thread, big board thread, cut thread, depth chart thread there is too be NO discussion.


[b]Important Dates:[/b]
February 22, 2013 – All RFAs, EFAs, Franchise Tags must be tendered
??? – Free Agency Begins
??? – Draft Begins


[b]****What needs to be added/discussed***[/b]
[b]1) [/b]Issues of trading – are we doing veto method if its too big/unrealistic? Seeing as this is already in discussion please discuss this. As of now it is a majority vote to overturn a trade...
[b]2) [/b]Important Dates – when do we want to start FA and Draft…is the RFA, ERFA, Franchise Tag day reasonable for everyone
[b]3) [/b]Compensation picks – Should be out in March, do we add them if no compensation picks have been passed?
[b]4) [/b]Others…..?

[Dubs]

Revised rules are up...Please discuss before we create a thread for rules...Especially the bottom areas that need to be addressed or if you have any concerns or things need further clarifying

[Mt. Crushmore]

NO POSTING in the Big Board Thread.

Also to Gabe, a few picks need to be updated due to trades, see first post in trade thread.

[Mt. Crushmore]

The first page of the cuts thread has been updated to what Dubs said to make it easy. Also, it makes sense to just put your resigning there as well (franchise tag and RFAs).

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1360449516' post='1352191']
NO POSTING in the Big Board Thread.

Also to Gabe, a few picks need to be updated due to trades, see first post in trade thread.
[/quote]

I'll get around to it. The board is very much under maintenance. I tried to import the list but it is a formatting disaster, so I am using Truth's old board and updating it 1 by 1. I'll get the trades that have happened in there as well. It might take some time but I'll get it done in the next couple days.