Anquan Boldin to retire if cut

[ArmyRavensFan]

I would take Boldin for three more years over the others (Except Torrey). He is proven, they are not. Williams, Reed, and Doss have been on the team for a couple of years and have barely contributed. Streeter and Thompson were late round/undrafted picks that havent shown anything. Boldin takes over games. He is rarely injured and I believe he has a solid three years left in him.

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1360535741' post='1353352']
Oh I agree with that. However, Boldin likely has 2 or 3 years left in him max. Everyone else on the list has 5-8 years left in the tank. It's not like all of our backups are scrubs. We have a lot of potential there. We can't just cut them to keep a guy who is going to retire soon. Me personally, I'd much rather have 3 or 4 of the following for the longevity of their careers over Boldin's 2 or 3 years.
[/quote]

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1360370891' post='1351043']
Pretty much knew this was the case. Anquan doesnt want to end up like Derrick Mason, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens etc. hopping from one team to another on a bunch of 1 year veteran deals. He will either have to take a $5-6M dollar pay cut or we will have to cut him. Theres a chance Ozzie could extend him and spread the money out over 3 years or so, but Oz will really have to work his magic.[b] I wouldnt be surprised if we cut Anquan and then signed him to a 1 or 2 year cheap deal once we get the cap under control.[/b] BUT I have a ton of respect for Boldin, and theres no better way to go out then with a ring, and he was our offensive MVP besides flacco in this post season.
[/quote]This is what the Packers did a couple of years ago with AJ Hawk. They cut him and then immediately signed him to a new deal.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1360780240' post='1356733']
This is what the Packers did a couple of years ago with AJ Hawk. They cut him and then immediately signed him to a new deal.
[/quote]
I could see it happen. It works as long as the player is OK with it (unlike Pryce who went to NYJ), lol.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360784352' post='1356793']
I could see it happen. It works as long as the player is OK with it (unlike Pryce who went to NYJ), lol.
[/quote]After what Pryce said about Ray I'm glad he went crying to Big Daddy Rex. Q is the epitome of a team player and I could see him doing this in a heartbeat.

[The Raven]

I think some people are underrating the talent of Doss, Williams, and Reed. Yes, you guys are correct in saying that they haven't had an impact yet. However, they haven't exactly had the chance to make an impact. They all have a chance to contribute. If we move to a west coast based scheme with a lot of crossing routes, these three will be in a better situation to do what they do. Reed and Doss can get YACs. Williams is a solid possession guy. Excluding the Colts game, Doss has very sticky hands and has made some crazy catches. The jury is not out on these guys.

That being said, if we lose Boldin by some tragedy I expect our offense to look like the Patriots a little, with a tight end heavy passing game and emphasis on quick passes. Their scheme would suit our guys very well.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360786958' post='1356865']
I think some people are underrating the talent of [b]Doss, Williams, and Reed[/b]. Yes, you guys are correct in saying that they haven't had an impact yet. However, they haven't exactly had the chance to make an impact. They all have a chance to contribute. If we move to a west coast based scheme with a lot of crossing routes, these three will be in a better situation to do what they do. Reed and Doss can get YACs. Williams is a solid possession guy. Excluding the Colts game, Doss has very sticky hands and has made some crazy catches. The jury is not out on these guys.

That being said, if we lose Boldin by some tragedy I expect our offense to look like the Patriots a little, with a tight end heavy passing game and emphasis on quick passes. Their scheme would suit our guys very well.
[/quote]
sorry, clutch is not in their dictionary.......Boldin is the key for our going forward offense.....

PS: Boldin said he will retire as a Raven if he is cut which means he can come in and get paid as #2 or 3 WR money......

[The Raven]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360788855' post='1356898']
sorry, clutch is not in their dictionary.......Boldin is the key for our going forward offense.....

PS: Boldin said he will retire as a Raven if he is cut which means he can come in and get paid as #2 or 3 WR money......
[/quote]

Never said they were clutch, but they have still have time to grow. It's completely foolish to say that they haven't done anything yet so they never will. Foolish!

A 31 year old WR is the key to our offense going forward? Lol okay. He's the man and all but he's not the future...

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360789276' post='1356901']


Never said they were clutch, but they have still have time to grow. It's completely foolish to say that they haven't done anything yet so they never will. Foolish!

A 31 year old WR is the key to our offense going forward? Lol okay. He's the man and all but he's not the future...
[/quote]
I have to agree. Doss, Williams, Reed, Streeter, Thompson--it's hard to say where they are. We haven't seen them truly get reps. The only one is Doss. But I caution people about judging him so quickly. He's an PI machine in terms of generating them, lol. He hasn't had any passes but the guys are usually covering him so tight that he gets a PI call a lot. Yeah, he dropped two balls he should have caught against the Colts. He has had chances to shine and hasn't. But we can say the same about Torrey.

What's the difference betwene Smith & Doss? One was forced into game experience. The other has been buried by Boldin, and doesn't see the field as much as Smith, Boldin, or even JJ. With limited snaps it's hard. Yes, we can say bad practice means no reps. But, you never know how he is developing or the plan of his development. We just have to wait and see. If Boldin's gone & Doss steps up as a starter, we will know for sure. That may be the only way, unfortunately.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360788855' post='1356898']

sorry, clutch is not in their dictionary.......Boldin is the key for our going forward offense.....

PS: Boldin said he will retire as a Raven if he is cut which means he can come in and get paid as #2 or 3 WR money......
[/quote]

I'm as big of a Q fan as any and maybe even more being a FSU fan, but he is not the "Key" to this offense moving forward. Much like I tell people about Ray Rice, he's a important part to this luxury car, but he's not the engine. Having Q will allow the offense to continue to run at a high level, but he's not the end all be all.

Again, the reason why Q makes so many contested catches is because he doesn't create great separation, even with Caldwell scheming the offense to create space. Because Q doesn't have the same explosion, alot of those clutch catches look a lot more difficult. Example, the corner route that Flacco hit Q on to get the offense going vs NE. The only reason Joe had to back shoulder the throw, was because Q didn't get to his spot. Flacco was supposed to drop the ball just over the defenders head and before the sideline. However, because Q didn't get to his spot, Flacco had to back shoulder the throw and it looked more like a jumpball, which makes it look like Flacco just throws the ball up and Boldin goes to get it.

Another example was the last TD in the Colts game. Even though it was only like a 19 yard TD, Flacco chose to put a lot of air under the ball. Flacco's reason was because he didn't wanna lead Boldin too far to the corner of the endzone. He wanted Boldin to be able to locate the ball. Because of this, Boldin had to make a tougher catch and everyone praises him. However, if Boldin explodes out of his break after stacking the defender inside, Flacco wouldn't have to float the ball, instead he could drive the ball.

Even with the drops from Doss, the thing to notice is, he had separation. Now this doesn't mean he would have caught those same passes that Boldin did, but the throws for Flacco would have been as difficult. I'd love to see Q return, but I don't think the offense goes down the tube if he doesn't.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360789276' post='1356901']
[b]Never said they were clutch[/b], but they have still have time to grow. It's completely foolish to say that they haven't done anything yet so they never will. Foolish!

A 31 year old WR is the key to our offense going forward? Lol okay. He's the man and all but he's not the future...
[/quote]
cuz clutch is/was never theirs....

Excuse me, how old is Mason when he's actually done playing ball?

Boldin has at least 2 good solid year left and those guys aren't ready to replace Boldin. I never say they never will but they aren't ready.

We are not offense running like Patriots....still Cam's scheme and some modification of Caldwell..

What is it mean by future? like 10 yr span...if so then he's not...3 yr span, yes he is our future in that range...

PS: Boldin can not beat any corner but every time the guy in his face, it means he's open...

[The Raven]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360792617' post='1356971']
cuz clutch is/was never theirs....

Excuse me, how old is Mason when he's actually done playing ball?

Boldin has at least 2 good solid year left and those guys aren't ready to replace Boldin. I never say they never will but they aren't ready.

We are not offense running like Patriots....still Cam's scheme and some modification of Caldwell..

What is it mean by future? like 10 yr span...if so then he's not...3 yr span, yes he is our future in that range...

PS: Boldin can not beat any corner but every time the guy in his face, it means he's open...
[/quote]

Boldin's contract is out next year. If we don't release him this year, we may next year. Those guys might be ready by next season. We don't know; they've barely seen the field. Boldin might still be around a few years, but in no way is he the key to our offense in the next few years! We need to get some talented youth.

Do you honestly think that Caldwell is going to keep Cam's system now that he has an off-season to implement a new scheme? He was involved in a completely different offense in Indy. If he has any sense he'd change the playbook to fit our players better. We have two tight ends that can make plays, speedsters in Torrey and Jacoby, and a few possession guys in Boldin and Doss. We have the personnel to do what New England does. It would fit our guys very well, especially since that scheme is centered around short passes and getting YACs. Something Boldin, Torrey, Doss, Pitta, and Dickson excel at.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360790777' post='1356934']

I have to agree. Doss, Williams, Reed, Streeter, Thompson--it's hard to say where they are. We haven't seen them truly get reps. The only one is Doss. But I caution people about judging him so quickly. He's an PI machine in terms of generating them, lol. He hasn't had any passes but the guys are usually covering him so tight that he gets a PI call a lot. Yeah, he dropped two balls he should have caught against the Colts. He has had chances to shine and hasn't. But we can say the same about Torrey.

What's the difference betwene Smith & Doss? One was forced into game experience. The other has been buried by Boldin, and doesn't see the field as much as Smith, Boldin, or even JJ. With limited snaps it's hard. Yes, we can say bad practice means no reps. But, you never know how he is developing or the plan of his development. We just have to wait and see. If Boldin's gone & Doss steps up as a starter, we will know for sure. That may be the only way, unfortunately.
[/quote]

I agree, but the thing about Doss is, he actually got a lot of reps under Caldwell. He didn't get a lot of pass attempts, but I think Jacoby and Doss played more over the final 5 meaningful games under Caldwell then they did at any point under Cam.

I know players tend to always hype their teammates that don't get much attention, but Jacoby said on NFLN, that the Ravens have so many young WRs that nobody knows about, so I think these guy are showing their worth in practice, it's just limited opportunities in live game situations.

When you consider, Torrey, Jacoby, Q, Pitta, Dickson and Doss, that's a lot of players to fit inside of a gameplan. A lot of times you are actually trying to get a strength matched up on a defensive weakness, at least under Caldwell that's the case. When you are a young guy at the bottom of the depth chart, you have to flash great potential and show you can be a great asset in order to get reps over the guys who have already proven to be guys you count on.

It'll be hard for Thompson to see the field next year because he has to prove he brings something more then Smith and Jones. Having speed is great, but when 2 guys ahead of you are already showcasing it, it's hard to see the field.

It's been hard for Reed to see the field because he's a catch and run guy, but under Cam, there was really no place for him. Now under Caldwell a lot more bunches, stack release, crosses and option routes will be in the offense, so he may be able to see the field. The same thing is true for LQW, he's more of a explosive possession WR, but despite Boldin not being as explosive anymore, he's the best possession guy on the team. Also Pitta keeps LQW off the field as well.

Streeter is the guy I would watch out for next year. If he can improve from last year, he could be a guy to see significant time because he has the height and speed to be a mismatch and truly take advantage of Flacco's talents. Like I said, I agree with you, but I think some fans are way too quick to write young players off, simply because they haven't produced on field yet.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360793184' post='1356979']
Boldin's contract is out next year. If we don't release him this year, we may next year. Those guys might be ready by next season. We don't know; they've barely seen the field. Boldin might still be around a few years, but in no way is he the key to our offense in the next few years! We need to get some talented youth.

Do you honestly think that Caldwell is going to keep Cam's system now that he has an off-season to implement a new scheme? He was involved in a completely different offense in Indy. If he has any sense he'd change the playbook to fit our players better. We have two tight ends that can make plays, speedsters in Torrey and Jacoby, and a few possession guys in Boldin and Doss. We have the personnel to do what New England does. It would fit our guys very well, especially since that scheme is centered around short passes and getting YACs. Something Boldin, Torrey, Doss, Pitta, and Dickson excel at.
[/quote]
We don't have Welker, which blows open the whole entire offense for New England. You have to direct so much attention to him over the middle and are limited in the coverages you can play against him it leaves holes for other guys. We don't have the shifty slot guy. We have a guy that will run over people, which is awesome, but it doesn't exactly blow open the middle of the field .

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360786958' post='1356865']
I think some people are underrating the talent of Doss, Williams, and Reed. Yes, you guys are correct in saying that they haven't had an impact yet. However, they haven't exactly had the chance to make an impact. They all have a chance to contribute. If we move to a west coast based scheme with a lot of crossing routes, these three will be in a better situation to do what they do. Reed and Doss can get YACs. Williams is a solid possession guy. Excluding the Colts game, Doss has very sticky hands and has made some crazy catches. The jury is not out on these guys.

That being said, if we lose Boldin by some tragedy I expect our offense to look like the Patriots a little, with a tight end heavy passing game and emphasis on quick passes. Their scheme would suit our guys very well.
[/quote]
Under rating the talent of Doss maybe, Williams pushing the envelope, Reed not at all. Reed's been here for 3 years and has 5 catches, he almost has as many fumbles as catches and has been hurt every year since 2010, I believe. Doss has talent yes, Williams I'm not sold on and have no idea why people think he could be a starter in the NFL right now and Reed has shown even less than the other 2 except for his ST play.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1360795135' post='1357020']

We don't have Welker, which blows open the whole entire offense for New England. You have to direct so much attention to him over the middle and are limited in the coverages you can play against him it leaves holes for other guys. We don't have the shifty slot guy. We have a guy that will run over people, which is awesome, but it doesn't exactly blow open the middle of the field .
[/quote]

Whay Welker is to the Pats, Torrey is to the Ravens in this example. Welker opens that offense up from the slot, Torrey opens this offense up by forcing the defense to use a safety to account for his speed. This opens up the middle of the field, which opens up the shorter catch and run pass game. This overall opens up the offense and the running lanes get larger.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360795806' post='1357033']
Whay Welker is to the Pats, Torrey is to the Ravens in this example. Welker opens that offense up from the slot, Torrey opens this offense up by forcing the defense to use a safety to account for his speed. This opens up the middle of the field, which opens up the shorter catch and run pass game. This overall opens up the offense and the running lanes get larger.
[/quote]
What Smith does is leave a 1 on 1 matchup underneath, we don't have a Welker type slot guy to exploit and just murder teams with this except for Boldin during the playoff run, even then most catches are contested. Boldin won't run away from anyone like a Welker will, its why the 2007 Pats offense was so unstoppable, they had a guy who took 2 people to cover him over the top and if it was single coverage because teams keyed on Welker it was a TD to Moss all day long. When teams doubled Moss it often left Welker alone and he'll get open against any kind of coverage for automatic first downs. Welker's biggest asset outside of his agility is that he's allowed to run option routes based on the coverage he sees. Welker is never beat before the snap like so many players can be from a well designed defense. That's why we won't be able to run a NE style offense. There are alot of offenses with WRs who blow the top off coverages or require double coverage, but that doesn't lead them to put up NE type numbers because they don't have that Welker type of slot receiver.

[jaege]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1360790777' post='1356934']
I have to agree. Doss, Williams, Reed, Streeter, Thompson--it's hard to say where they are. We haven't seen them truly get reps. The only one is Doss. But I caution people about judging him so quickly. He's an PI machine in terms of generating them, lol. He hasn't had any passes but the guys are usually covering him so tight that he gets a PI call a lot. Yeah, he dropped two balls he should have caught against the Colts. He has had chances to shine and hasn't. But we can say the same about Torrey.

What's the difference betwene Smith & Doss? One was forced into game experience. The other has been buried by Boldin, and doesn't see the field as much as Smith, Boldin, or even JJ. With limited snaps it's hard. Yes, we can say bad practice means no reps. But, you never know how he is developing or the plan of his development. We just have to wait and see. If Boldin's gone & Doss steps up as a starter, we will know for sure. That may be the only way, unfortunately.
[/quote]


Lets be fair. The only reason that Boldin has buried Doss is because the FO and coaching staff haven't seen Doss do anything that merits him being put in ahead of Boldin. If he were as good as so many here foolishly wish he is then he would have seen some play time. Same for the others that keep getting brought up, Reed, Williams, Streeter and Thompson. The coaching staff are not going to keep some sort of awesome weapon buried. They are not playing because, as yet they are just not that good.

Smith plays because the first three catches he ever made in the NFL were TDs. He has been playing at a high level ever since. The only thing I remember about Doss is his butter fingers. Your man-crushes aside, these guys have obviously not performed to a level that merits them playing, and we have not been desperate enough to let them take the field.

[size=4]Maybe that changes at some distant future date, I don't know. Maybe one of them might pan out, if given some more time, but for the near future I would prefer we go with what we know works. That would be Q.[/size]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1360796848' post='1357053']

What Smith does is leave a 1 on 1 matchup underneath, we don't have a Welker type slot guy to exploit and just murder teams with this except for Boldin during the playoff run, even then most catches are contested. Boldin won't run away from anyone like a Welker will, its why the 2007 Pats offense was so unstoppable, they had a guy who took 2 people to cover him over the top and if it was single coverage because teams keyed on Welker it was a TD to Moss all day long. When teams doubled Moss it often left Welker alone and he'll get open against any kind of coverage for automatic first downs. Welker's biggest asset outside of his agility is that he's allowed to run option routes based on the coverage he sees. Welker is never beat before the snap like so many players can be from a well designed defense. That's why we won't be able to run a NE style offense. There are alot of offenses with WRs who blow the top off coverages or require double coverage, but that doesn't lead them to put up NE type numbers because they don't have that Welker type of slot receiver.
[/quote]

No offense is every the same because every has different talents. I don't expect the Ravens to run the NE style offense anyway, all I stated is basically what you just said. For the Ravens, Torrey is equivalent to Welker for the Pats.

He draws attention that allows others to have 1on1 matchups. Wheter it be from the slot or any other position.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360791971' post='1356959']
I'm as big of a Q fan as any and maybe even more being a FSU fan, but he is not the "Key" to this offense moving forward. Much like I tell people about Ray Rice, he's a important part to this luxury car, but he's not the engine. Having Q will allow the offense to continue to run at a high level, but he's not the end all be all.

Again, the reason why Q makes so many contested catches is because he doesn't create great separation, even with Caldwell scheming the offense to create space. Because Q doesn't have the same explosion, [b]alot of those clutch catches look a lot more difficult. [/b]Example, the corner route that Flacco hit Q on to get the offense going vs NE. The only reason Joe had to back shoulder the throw, was because Q didn't get to his spot. Flacco was supposed to drop the ball just over the defenders head and before the sideline. However, because Q didn't get to his spot, Flacco had to back shoulder the throw and it looked more like a jumpball, which makes it look like Flacco just throws the ball up and Boldin goes to get it.

Another example was the last TD in the Colts game. Even though it was only like a 19 yard TD, Flacco chose to put a lot of air under the ball. Flacco's reason was because he didn't wanna lead Boldin too far to the corner of the endzone. He wanted Boldin to be able to locate the ball. Because of this, Boldin had to make a tougher catch and everyone praises him. However, if Boldin explodes out of his break after stacking the defender inside, Flacco wouldn't have to float the ball, instead he could drive the ball.

Even with the drops from Doss, the thing to notice is, he had separation. Now this doesn't mean he would have caught those same passes that Boldin did, but the throws for Flacco would have been as difficult. I'd love to see Q return, but I don't think the offense goes down the tube if he doesn't.
[/quote]
No, it's not..lol..it's difficult for us or others but no for Boldin..He's born to catch balls in traffic and contested balls with DB all over him. Boldin in the slot is bread and butter; all Joe needs to do is to throw back shoulder or high ball and Boldin will pull it down with both hands.

Most of the time, you would think DB will knock the ball out of Boldin's hands but 10/10 times Boldin was about to break any hand slid under his arm.....

Torrey, Jacoby and Boldin are compliment well for each other; taking Boldin away, major hits for Torrey and Jacoby's production. On our team, none can replace Boldin.....

Forget about Doss cuz under Harbs' philosophy, if you beat the guy above you, you have his playing time.

Therefore, Doss or whoever not to seen on the field, it means they are not ready to contribute....

PS: They are better working harder and learning more from Boldin...

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360802940' post='1357148']

No, it's not..lol..it's difficult for us or others but no for Boldin..He's born to catch balls in traffic and contested balls with DB all over him. Boldin in the slot is bread and butter; all Joe needs to do is to throw back shoulder or high ball and Boldin will pull it down with both hands.

Most of the time, you would think DB will knock the ball out of Boldin's hands but 10/10 times Boldin was about to break any hand slid under his arm.....

Torrey, Jacoby and Boldin are compliment well for each other; taking Boldin away, major hits for Torrey and Jacoby's production. On our team, none can replace Boldin.....

Forget about Doss cuz under Harbs' philosophy, if you beat the guy above you, you have his playing time.

Therefore, Doss or whoever not to seen on the field, it means they are not ready to contribute....

PS: They are better working harder and learning more from Boldin...
[/quote]

Of course taking Boldin away will effect the offense, but not greatly. The same way as taking Pitta and Smith away would effect Boldin's production. He's a great player but this offense will continue to run without him.

It won't just be Doss replacing Q, who I can't honestly say is ready or not. It'll be Doss, Pitta, Rice, and whoever out od LQW, Reed and Thompson that steps up to work that slot. Again, what Q brings with physical toughness, those other guys bring in explosiveness and run after catch ability. Will they be able to go up and take the ball away like Boldin? Maybe not, but because they could potentially create more separation within the offense then Q did, Flacco won't have to throw 50/50 balls because the defenders won't be as close.

Boldin is not the only guy who has come up clutch for this team. Smith, Pitta, Jones, and even Dickson and Doss has come up with big catches to either jump start this offense or help close out games. Have the they done it as much as Q, no but they also haven't been put in position to do it as much as Q.

As for these guys not being worthy because they havent earned it, if the Ravens are willing to part ways with Q, then obviously somebody believes they can. Yes it'll be things that a guy like Doss has to learn by fire and his 2013 season might not be anywhere near as productive as Q's might be. But the Ravens my see the value in Doss actually playing more meaning snap and getting a better in game chemistry with Joe, higher then having Boldin for 1 more year.

Both Mason and JJ were playing at high levels and didn't have a proven replace when they were either cut or allowed to walk, as much as I like Q he's no different. Now again, I hope they find some way to keep Boldin in purple for at least this year. However, from what i've seen and what I expect from Caldwell moving forward, I don't think this offense is doomed.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360807938' post='1357224']
Of course taking Boldin away will effect the offense, but not greatly. The same way as taking Pitta and Smith away would effect Boldin's production. He's a great player but this offense will continue to run without him.

It won't just be Doss replacing Q, who I can't honestly say is ready or not. It'll be Doss, Pitta, Rice, and whoever out od LQW, Reed and Thompson that steps up to work that slot. Again, what Q brings with physical toughness, those other guys bring in explosiveness and run after catch ability. Will they be able to go up and take the ball away like Boldin? Maybe not, but because they could potentially create more separation within the offense then Q did, Flacco won't have to throw 50/50 balls because the defenders won't be as close.

Boldin is not the only guy who has come up clutch for this team. Smith, Pitta, Jones, and even Dickson and Doss has come up with big catches to either jump start this offense or help close out games. Have the they done it as much as Q, no but they also haven't been put in position to do it as much as Q.

As for these guys not being worthy because they havent earned it, if the Ravens are willing to part ways with Q, then obviously somebody believes they can. Yes it'll be things that a guy like Doss has to learn by fire and his 2013 season might not be anywhere near as productive as Q's might be. But the Ravens my see the value in Doss actually playing more meaning snap and getting a better in game chemistry with Joe, higher then having Boldin for 1 more year.

Both Mason and JJ were playing at high levels and didn't have a proven replace when they were either cut or allowed to walk, as much as I like Q he's no different. Now again, I hope they find some way to keep Boldin in purple for at least this year. However, from what i've seen and what I expect from Caldwell moving forward,[b] I don't think this offense is doomed[/b].
[/quote]
never mention our offense will be doomed; with Caldwell as OC, I'm confident our offense will be improved greatly regardless. However, you can't disregard the leadership of Boldin bringing on the field. He is our motivational leader on the offense and his action will dictate the talk. Boldin is Torrey's mentor and he can see how much Torrey has improved since last year. Additionally, Torrey's work ethic and talent are the keys for his today improvement as well.

You can say we can replace Boldin's skill set on the field of which you can, but you can't replace the intangible leadership that Boldin sending through the offense.

I'm sure our FO will work out a deal that works for Boldin and us, of course not affecting our salary cap significantly.

Since Boldin already states he will retire if he gets cut, so the leverage is on the Ravens side, so we can take time to work out the deal with Boldin. Like someone mentioned, we will cut him and resign him with 1-2 year deal....

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360807938' post='1357224']
As for these guys not being worthy because they havent earned it, if the Ravens are willing to part ways with Q, then obviously somebody believes they can. Yes it'll be things that a guy like Doss has to learn by fire and his 2013 season might not be anywhere near as productive as Q's might be. But the Ravens my see the value in Doss actually playing more meaning snap and getting a better in game chemistry with Joe, higher then having Boldin for 1 more year.

Both Mason and JJ were playing at high levels and didn't have a proven replace when they were either cut or allowed to walk, as much as I like Q he's no different. Now again, I hope they find some way to keep Boldin in purple for at least this year. However, from what i've seen and what I expect from Caldwell moving forward, I don't think this offense is doomed.
[/quote]


Q being released is not some sort of indication that the FO beleives any of "your boys" are ready or able to replace him. Do not be naive. If Q goes it is because we cannot afford to keep him. Its about money and cap space. Nothing more.


Serious question. What is it that so many see in these guys that I am not seeing? Do you go to the training camps or get film from them? Is there a news letter that describes players performance in training? Seriously, what is it? And don't talk to me about their college days. That is meaningless. I can use Troy Smith as an excellent example of that. What is it about these guys that merit so much fan love?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1360841575' post='1357495']



Q being released is not some sort of indication that the FO beleives any of "your boys" are ready or able to replace him. Do not be naive. If Q goes it is because we cannot afford to keep him. Its about money and cap space. Nothing more.


Serious question. What is it that so many see in these guys that I am not seeing? Do you go to the training camps or get film from them? Is there a news letter that describes players performance in training? Seriously, what is it? And don't talk to me about their college days. That is meaningless. I can use Troy Smith as an excellent example of that. What is it about these guys that merit so much fan love?
[/quote]
1. Nobody wants or thinks any of these young & mostly unproven WRs such as Doss, Williams, Streeter & Thompson are as of this moment ready to replace Anquan Boldin.
2. Nobody is saying that we will be fine without Boldin.
3. People are saying the FO has a history of allowing players being heavily compensated to walk/cut when they have a lot of youth at a position; see Derrick Mason with Smith & Evans, Heap with Dickson & Pitta, Gregg with Cody, JJ with Kruger & Upshaw as well as the other rotational guys like McClellan, Cundiff with Tucker. I think I've made my point.
4. The cap dictates players, and as such the amount of a salary greatly determines whether we keep a player

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360819879' post='1357446']

never mention our offense will be doomed; with Caldwell as OC, I'm confident our offense will be improved greatly regardless. However, you can't disregard the leadership of Boldin bringing on the field. He is our motivational leader on the offense and his action will dictate the talk. Boldin is Torrey's mentor and he can see how much Torrey has improved since last year. Additionally, Torrey's work ethic and talent are the keys for his today improvement as well.

You can say we can replace Boldin's skill set on the field of which you can, but you can't replace the intangible leadership that Boldin sending through the offense.

I'm sure our FO will work out a deal that works for Boldin and us, of course not affecting our salary cap significantly.

Since Boldin already states he will retire if he gets cut, so the leverage is on the Ravens side, so we can take time to work out the deal with Boldin. Like someone mentioned, we will cut him and resign him with 1-2 year deal....
[/quote]

I never mentioned you saying anything about the offense being doomed. I said imo they aren't doomed without Q. However when you say things like..."Q is the key to this offense" Jones, Smith and Q compliment each other and without Q their production takes a huge hit" and "on our team noone can replace Q" it seems bit of a contradiction to the statement of "with Caldwell I think this offense will greatly improve redardless"

I've said before this offseason that bring Reed and Q back is important for their leadership, Q maybe more so because he has actually experienced coming off a Super Bowl appearance. So I agree 100% about Q still having a heart huge impact on this team from a production and leadership standpoint. But you don't put your young core or future key players at risk for a veteran like Q or Reed, to stay around for another year or two. That's what Qzzie and Mr. B means by not doing the same things that got them in trouble in 2001.

However with all this said, I can't see a situation where Q isn't apart of the 2013 Ravens. I just think if for whatever reason he's not here, the Ravens will be good.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1360841575' post='1357495']



Q being released is not some sort of indication that the FO beleives any of "your boys" are ready or able to replace him. Do not be naive. If Q goes it is because we cannot afford to keep him. Its about money and cap space. Nothing more.


Serious question. What is it that so many see in these guys that I am not seeing? Do you go to the training camps or get film from them? Is there a news letter that describes players performance in training? Seriously, what is it? And don't talk to me about their college days. That is meaningless. I can use Troy Smith as an excellent example of that. What is it about these guys that merit so much fan love?
[/quote]

First off if you wanna talk "seriously" don't come at me with this your boys stuff. I've said plenty of times that I don't concern myself with all the hater, apologist, your boy etc talk. If we are talking football great, but I don't do the I like this player so I gotta bash the other player at his position to make my point of why they should be playing.

So talking football, to address your first statement. I said if the Ravens allow Q to walk then someone thinks they'll be fine at WR withoutt. Ok lets look at the situation, yes because of his cap number the Ravens have to make a decision on Q. They have the option to bring Q back at a lower cap hit. However, IF the Ravens decide not to bring Q back at all, it won't be because they couldn't afford him, because like every has stated you can bring him back for cheap, it'll be because they either don't see the value in bringing Q back, which I don't think. Or they see more value in letting those younger guys play and they believe the offense will continue to grow without Q.

Now to answer your question. What I saw from Doss was a guy who had a physical style of play coming into his first training camp. Really good hands, but not as explosive as I thought he'd be. Reports were he was still dealing with injury from college. Doss flashed major potential against fellow rookies and backups in preseason games and practice. However when he got against better DBs his lack of explosion and sloppy route running hurt him. What he got away with in college he couldn't in the NFL.

This year Doss grow alot. His explosiveness came back, his route running was sharper and he seemed to have a sharper focus. He has great hands, despite his 3 drops in the Colts game that most wanna judge him by. Doss' biggest issue in 2012 was injuries imo. I was fortunate enough to attend a couple practices at the Castle last training camp and both Doss and LQW looked really good. They both had really good chemistry with Flacco and gave him easy tragets to hit more often then not.

Both guys made tough catches in traffic and over the back of Webb and Jimmy. Now that's practice and is so much different from real games. For me the biggest reason why I caution people about judging game time as readiness, is because Cam didn't do a great job of using all his weapons. Even Jacoby didn't play much and got targeted even less under Cam. Under Cam Jones would have some games were he was targeted a lot, others where he didn't even see a ball. While under Caldwell he was targeted almost 4 times a game consistently. So if your #3 WR isn't seeing much time and talent has nothing to do with it, hard to imagine your #4WR getting many targets.

However under Caldwell things were different. Doss, Jones and Dickson saw the field a lot more. Though often times those guys wasn't targeted, if you watch the all 22 on some of the big plays that Smith, Boldin and Pitta made, it was those guys pulling cover, or some times those guys were open, but a higher read was open.

I personally am not the saying Doss is gonna come in and be a 1,000yds WR in 2013 or ever for that matter. However I do see the guy having talents that lend himself well to this offense and him combined with others will do well.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360854021' post='1357565']
I never mentioned you saying anything about the offense being doomed. I said imo they aren't doomed without Q. However when you say things like..."Q is the key to this offense" Jones, Smith and Q compliment each other and without Q their production takes a huge hit" and "on our team noone can replace Q" it seems bit of a[b] contradiction [/b]to the statement of "with Caldwell I think this offense will greatly improve redardless"

I've said before this offseason that bring Reed and Q back is important for their leadership, Q maybe more so because he has actually experienced coming off a Super Bowl appearance. So I agree 100% about Q still having a heart huge impact on this team from a production and leadership standpoint. But you don't put your young core or future key players at risk for a veteran like Q or Reed, to stay around for another year or two. That's what Qzzie and Mr. B means by not doing the same things that got them in trouble in 2001.

However with all this said, I can't see a situation where Q isn't apart of the 2013 Ravens. I just think if for whatever reason he's not here, the Ravens will be good.
[/quote]
I think a bit yes cuz I love everything about our offense as a whole and I can't seem to accept losing our clutch, security blanket Boldin this year. It's not like the dude ask for #1 WR money, and he's willing to accept an ok deal so he and Joe can make another run for SB. I acknowledge your appreciation the significance of Q, but the truth is no one can replace Q right now. The dude is on his stride, and he and Joe are clicked to an extent of annihilation for the opposing defense.

Another point I want to make is execution; even good playcaller like Caldwell and accurate throw of Joe, if our players can't execute, everything goes down the drain all together. John isn't scared to put rookie players out there for important games if they prove they can execute well during crucial situation. All the time of last year season, none of our WR players besides Torrey, Jacoby, and Boldin are proven to be worth for games. They are all given opportunity to showcase their abilities and skills but none of them succeed.

Another example is McKinnie who has been in the "dog house" for the whole season but got a chance to be starter in the post season cuz he had been proving in the training camp and in game that he will excel. If Doss proves he can beat Jacoby or Boldin, he will get a shot during our playoff runs but he's not.

Therefore, we can train our bench players or practice squad players to replace Boldin's production or his role, but so far I can't seem to see we will have one to fit in Boldin's role this year. We need Boldin's security and at least a year or two to find the replacement.

You can say we dropped Mase but doing OK cuz we still had Boldin at the time, so losing savy vet like Boldin right now and leaving our offense in drought of experience leader is not really optimistic going in the year of 2013. Joe and Rice are vet too but Boldin is vet of the vets...

[TheRavenouseD2008]

actualy in theory he could be cut clear waivers and resign for less

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1360860448' post='1357657']

I think a bit yes cuz I love everything about our offense as a whole and I can't seem to accept losing our clutch, security blanket Boldin this year. It's not like the dude ask for #1 WR money, and he's willing to accept an ok deal so he and Joe can make another run for SB. I acknowledge your appreciation the significance of Q, but the truth is no one can replace Q right now. The dude is on his stride, and he and Joe are clicked to an extent of annihilation for the opposing defense.

Another point I want to make is execution; even good playcaller like Caldwell and accurate throw of Joe, if our players can't execute, everything goes down the drain all together. John isn't scared to put rookie players out there for important games if they prove they can execute well during crucial situation. All the time of last year season, none of our WR players besides Torrey, Jacoby, and Boldin are proven to be worth for games. They are all given opportunity to showcase their abilities and skills but none of them succeed.

Another example is McKinnie who has been in the "dog house" for the whole season but got a chance to be starter in the post season cuz he had been proving in the training camp and in game that he will excel. If Doss proves he can beat Jacoby or Boldin, he will get a shot during our playoff runs but he's not.

Therefore, we can train our bench players or practice squad players to replace Boldin's production or his role, but so far I can't seem to see we will have one to fit in Boldin's role this year. We need Boldin's security and at least a year or two to find the replacement.

You can say we dropped Mase but doing OK cuz we still had Boldin at the time, so losing savy vet like Boldin right now and leaving our offense in drought of experience leader is not really optimistic going in the year of 2013. Joe and Rice are vet too but Boldin is vet of the vets...
[/quote]

I get it, you don't wanna lose Boldin. I don't either, but again Boldin isn't the only guy that comes up clutch. You continually want to say Doss isn't ready to replace Boldin....He Doesn't Have To!!! It's the same notion that the defense can't perform well without Ray. No the defense won't be the same and no player will replace the great Ray Lewis, but like Mr. B said, it'll be other guys who step up and make the defense good. Not saying you made the Ray comment.

I will agree with you 100% Doss isn't as good as Boldin and the offense won't be the same without Q. However that doesn't mean the offense won't continue to be good. Much like Heap, we've seen what kind of mismatch Pitta creates against Lbs and DBs when spilt out wide. So if there is no Boldin, who's to say that Pitta won't see more time running out of the slot with Dickson working from the TE position? We see that Boldin is open even when covered, but if that's a guy like Pitta or Doss running the same route, vs the same coverage, who's to say that they won't create much more separation then Q, which now makes the pitch and catch easier.

Now there is now way of knowing if those guys will make the catch, but lets not act like those guys have drop issues and Boldin has never dropped at pass. Yes Boldin is important to this offense and I'm sure he'll return, but Flacco doesn't "need" him to be successful. Torrey and the rest of these guys don't need Boldin for another 3 years. Boldin would definitely help and i'm being as careful as I can not to overvaule his importance without seeming like i'm bashing him because i'm not.

Just because those guys aren't playing alot, doesn't mean they aren't good or ready. Graham and Brown weren't good enough to start for this team, but when they were needed to step up they did. Much like Doss with his poor game against the Colts, those guys had their ups and downs. But they were able to continue getting reps because the guys in front of them were hurt. Nobody in front of Doss was hurt, so he didn't get many chances to overcome those drops against the Colts. However that one game doesn't define him, because he had some big catches before that game and even after that game he saw action and was even targeted, however when you are the #4WR, it's hard to get into the gameplan, so your targets basically come when the QB goes through his progressions and see you're open. But if other guys come open before you, the ball doesn't come your way.

[1/28/01]

He'll be restructured. And this longwinded back and forth is unnecessary. Boldin saying he'll retire before wearing another uniform (while awesome to say!!!) is his way of saying, indirectly, lets work something out! And it will be worked out!

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360856866' post='1357608']
First off if you wanna talk "seriously" don't come at me with this your boys stuff. I've said plenty of times that I don't concern myself with all the hater, apologist, your boy etc talk. If we are talking football great, but I don't do the I like this player so I gotta bash the other player at his position to make my point of why they should be playing.

So talking football, to address your first statement. I said if the Ravens allow Q to walk then someone thinks they'll be fine at WR withoutt. Ok lets look at the situation, yes because of his cap number the Ravens have to make a decision on Q. They have the option to bring Q back at a lower cap hit. However, IF the Ravens decide not to bring Q back at all, it won't be because they couldn't afford him, because like every has stated you can bring him back for cheap, it'll be because they either don't see the value in bringing Q back, which I don't think. Or they see more value in letting those younger guys play and they believe the offense will continue to grow without Q.

Now to answer your question. What I saw from Doss was a guy who had a physical style of play coming into his first training camp. Really good hands, but not as explosive as I thought he'd be. Reports were he was still dealing with injury from college. Doss flashed major potential against fellow rookies and backups in preseason games and practice. However when he got against better DBs his lack of explosion and sloppy route running hurt him. What he got away with in college he couldn't in the NFL.

This year Doss grow alot. His explosiveness came back, his route running was sharper and he seemed to have a sharper focus. He has great hands, despite his 3 drops in the Colts game that most wanna judge him by. Doss' biggest issue in 2012 was injuries imo. I was fortunate enough to attend a couple practices at the Castle last training camp and both Doss and LQW looked really good. They both had really good chemistry with Flacco and gave him easy tragets to hit more often then not.

Both guys made tough catches in traffic and over the back of Webb and Jimmy. Now that's practice and is so much different from real games. For me the biggest reason why I caution people about judging game time as readiness, is because Cam didn't do a great job of using all his weapons. Even Jacoby didn't play much and got targeted even less under Cam. Under Cam Jones would have some games were he was targeted a lot, others where he didn't even see a ball. While under Caldwell he was targeted almost 4 times a game consistently. So if your #3 WR isn't seeing much time and talent has nothing to do with it, hard to imagine your #4WR getting many targets.

However under Caldwell things were different. Doss, Jones and Dickson saw the field a lot more. Though often times those guys wasn't targeted, if you watch the all 22 on some of the big plays that Smith, Boldin and Pitta made, it was those guys pulling cover, or some times those guys were open, but a higher read was open.

I personally am not the saying Doss is gonna come in and be a 1,000yds WR in 2013 or ever for that matter. However I do see the guy having talents that lend himself well to this offense and him combined with others will do well.
[/quote]


Sorry about the attitude. I just have a peeve about these man-crushes that so many fans seem to have on a rookie or unused player that has done next to nothing. Not saying you suffer from this condition.

Doss, Reed, LQW, they have done nothing in their NFL careers. Or next too. You say that Doss has great hands. All I ever remember is his dropping balls. How is that good hands? Remeber Huashka could kick like Tucker, in pratice. Under real game conditions he choked. So maybe the good hands do not extend out of practice. You saw him play well against his own team. Not a ringing endorsement. If the issue is injuries, that is not his fault, but a guy who is always injured is still no good to the team. It may be that they just need exposure, maybe. Or maybe they are not that good.

Naturally, I am hopeful that they improve and can add something to the team with some actual play time, and they may get that if we are forced to release Q due to cap space. My point is we are better off keeping Q for a season or two more if at all possible, than hoping that someone steps up.

A lot of posters here seemed to think we would be better off releasing Q, and that he is the only reason that none of them has stepped up.