Merril Hoge

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1360126337' post='1347357']
Brady had 4 really bad playoff games in the last 4 years: to us (3 times) and the Jets. Manning only played 1 year in the last 2 years. Brady had 4 regular season games under 80 this year.
[/quote]Can you please tell that buck teeth SOB this? I am sick and tired of his fat mug talking ill of Flacco and the Ravens... he cannot stand us... did he get spit on when he visited us mistaking him to be a fat homeless dude or something?

[jdynamite]

I'm sorry but to put Flacco Top 5 because he had a great playoff run isn't enough justification. If that's the case where does Eli Manning and Big Ben fit into the top QBs.

Both of them have 2 rings and have had nice playoff runs to titles.

I think Jawrowski probably had it closer to right.

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. P.Manning
4. Brees
5. Big Ben
6. E.Manning
7. Flacco
8. Rivers ( down year)
9. Stafford
10. Luck/ RG3

Just can't put Romo in the list

I do believe that Flacco's regular season numbers will finally be impressive since Cam Cameron is finally gone. Perhaps Flacco will begin to take over games or command the offense in ways similar to the QBs I have ahead of him

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='msufan' timestamp='1360109943' post='1346904']
I think ppl are over compensating for being a flacco hater.
[/quote]except buck teeth Dukes. He still hates Flacco and comes up with ridiculous stats to back his thought...

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1360125393' post='1347337']
I like our O-line but I think some people here are overstating how good they were in pass protection. It's because Joe is great - maybe the best - at throwing under pressure. You don't even notice it half the time that he makes a big throw and gets knocked over just after. And he also breaks arm tackles that would get most QBs sacked.
[/quote]

Naw they aren't great but collectively they played well enough for Joe to run the offense. It's the same line from last year. The difference is the freedom Caldwell has given Flacco. Also the drive starters that Caldwell calls to get Flacco and the offense going.

Right now the combination of Caldwell and Flacco will allow a average oline to look great. Quick routes, attacking the defenses weaknesses, and giving Flacco the freedom to change plays after reading the defense is huge, also the no huddle/uptempo offense really forces defense to stay basic. What the Oline used to struggle with was the blitz on obvious pass downs. With Cam being so predictable, it was easy for defenses to attack the offense. Now with Caldwell, even in obvious pass downs, it's hard for defenses to really attack the oline because Caldwell calls a lot of blitz beaters, which Cam didn't.

A month ago, i said the Ravens had to get a stud at LT to finally protect Joe, but I'm thinking with the style of offense, they can thrive with another McKinnie type LT. Not great, but gets the job done.

[ellicottraven]

Here is my list with a qualifier... if Joe Flacco is protected he is unquestionably the best QB in the league. However, the improvement he has shown in evading the pass rush and his decision making even without a good offensive line still make him top 3 in my book along with Brady and Rodgers....

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360127782' post='1347376']
Naw they aren't great but collectively they played well enough for Joe to run the offense. It's the same line from last year. The difference is the freedom Caldwell has given Flacco. Also the drive starters that Caldwell calls to get Flacco and the offense going.

Right now the combination of Caldwell and Flacco will allow a average oline to look great. Quick routes, attacking the defenses weaknesses, and giving Flacco the freedom to change plays after reading the defense is huge, also the no huddle/uptempo offense really forces defense to stay basic. What the Oline used to struggle with was the blitz on obvious pass downs. With Cam being so predictable, it was easy for defenses to attack the offense. Now with Caldwell, even in obvious pass downs, it's hard for defenses to really attack the oline because Caldwell calls a lot of blitz beaters, which Cam didn't.

A month ago, i said the Ravens had to get a stud at LT to finally protect Joe, but I'm thinking with the style of offense, they can thrive with another McKinnie type LT. Not great, but gets the job done.
[/quote] All true. It's not that the O-line has been spectacular. They haven't been so in the run game. And Joe HAS been getting hit. Not as much, but still hit. Russellstreetreport has someone who breaks down how often Joe is under pressure ("ample time and space" vs "without ats").
Without ats he was:
Against the Pats: 8 of 14 for 60 yards and 3TDs.
Against the Colts: 5 of 13 for 107 yards and 1TDs.
Against the Giants: 11 of 19 for 142 yards and 2TDs.

If those numbers weren't so high, you'd notice him being pressured more.

Broncos first game: 9 of 24 for 110 yards and 1TD, 1INT
Broncos second game: 7 of 11 for 122 yards and 1TD.

Obviously Yanda being back had something to do with why he was pressured 24 times, but Joe is still getting pressured now. He's just been way more efficient since Caldwell stepped in. I'm sure the Broncos blitzed less often the second time around because of this.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360125988' post='1347349']


Qb's thrive in a system that fits them best, I agree w/ that. Brees played well in SD too but they chose not to stick w/ him b/c of his height, his injury and they had Rivers sitting on the bench.

But two seasons ago (The season before Sean Peyton had his year long suspension) Drew Brees also broke the all-time single season completion % record w/ him completing 71% of his pass attempts.

You have to think about that for a second, this man has VERY little running game and his defense is mediocre at best.
To complete 71% of your passes FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON when you're throwing the ball 40+ times a game and defenses KNOW that you're throwing it 40+ times a game.. That's nothing short of spectacular

Like is said before I'm taking NOTHING away from Joe. He's our QB and I wouldn't trade him for ANYBODY! But I don't see him better than Brees at this moment in time
[/quote]

Oh i'm not saying you have to choose Joe and I agree 100 percent about Brees the guy is a stud. Not just anyone could do what he does in NO and that's what sets him apart.

My point was judging talent vs system. Example. Both guys played under Cam, now even though that's true, it would still be tough to compare because of different talent, but the offense was basically the same. In Cam's offense the QB is gonna make a lot of contested throws. Which means the chance for incompletions and INTs are high.

Under Cam, Brees never threw for more then 3,500+ yards and only one year did he throw less then 15ints and 65.5 was his highest completion percentage. Sean Peyton saw a guy that was highly accurate throwing to "open guys" and his allowed Brees to play in a offense that highlights his strengths. Much like with Flacco, Cam tried to put a square in a round hole with Brees.

Ask yourself how many times do you see Flacco miss open guys with a clean pocket? Not often and how many times does Flacco have to be near perfect with throws because it's not much separation? Very often. So I wonder if Flacco played for Sean Peyton and Drew Brees still played for Cam, would Brees still be the stud he is now, or would he be restricted, much like Flacco. And if Flacco was in NO, would he be able to light that Dome up like Brees does? I think Joe will dominate just like Brees in NO and Brees would go back to being a talented passer but a TO machine with Cam.

So if this is true, which i think it is, are we really talking about Brees being a better QB? Or does he just benefit more so then Flacco because he plays with a playcaller who's smart enough to play to his strengths? Does that make sense?

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360133915' post='1347435']
Oh i'm not saying you have to choose Joe and I agree 100 percent about Brees the guy is a stud. Not just anyone could do what he does in NO and that's what sets him apart.

My point was judging talent vs system. Example. Both guys played under Cam, now even though that's true, it would still be tough to compare because of different talent, but the offense was basically the same. In Cam's offense the QB is gonna make a lot of contested throws. Which means the chance for incompletions and INTs are high.

Under Cam, Brees never threw for more then 3,500+ yards and only one year did he throw less then 15ints and 65.5 was his highest completion percentage. Sean Peyton saw a guy that was highly accurate throwing to "open guys" and his allowed Brees to play in a offense that highlights his strengths. Much like with Flacco, Cam tried to put a square in a round hole with Brees.

Ask yourself how many times do you see Flacco miss open guys with a clean pocket? Not often and how many times does Flacco have to be near perfect with throws because it's not much separation? Very often. So I wonder if Flacco played for Sean Peyton and Drew Brees still played for Cam, would Brees still be the stud he is now, or would he be restricted, much like Flacco. And if Flacco was in NO, would he be able to light that Dome up like Brees does? I think Joe will dominate just like Brees in NO and Brees would go back to being a talented passer but a TO machine with Cam.

So if this is true, which i think it is, are we really talking about Brees being a better QB? Or does he just benefit more so then Flacco because he plays with a playcaller who's smart enough to play to his strengths? Does that make sense?
[/quote]

Yeah I'm reading you man.. It makes perfect sense.

We'll see w/ this upcoming season man. Caldwell+Flacco+Pocket = Offensive Success

w/ a complete off season under their belts I'm hoping to see more consistency and big numbers this upcoming season
then I'll put Flacco up there in the top 3.

But Brees IS benefiting in his system, it's time for Flacco to do the same if he wants to be mentioned in that category.

[admartian]

For me (Top 10):[list=1]
[*]Rodgers

[*]Brady (cold weather gives him the slight edge over Brees in a dome against the NFC South)

[*]Brees

[*]Peyton

[*]Flacco

[*]Eli Manning

[*]Big Ben

[*]Matt Ryan

[*]Russell Wilson

[*]RG3
[/list]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8913240/top-nfl-quarterbacks

[ravensdan]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1360189638' post='1348210']
For me (Top 10):[list=1]
[*]Rodgers

[*]Brady (cold weather gives him the slight edge over Brees in a dome against the NFC South)

[*]Brees

[*]Peyton

[*]Flacco

[*]Eli Manning

[*]Big Ben

[*]Matt Ryan

[*]Russell Wilson

[*]RG3
[/list]
[url="http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8913240/top-nfl-quarterbacks"]http://espn.go.com/s...fl-quarterbacks[/url]
[/quote]

Really RG3?

Even Wilson?

I don't agree with those choices.. RG3 will never have a season like he just had. i believe 8. romo 9. Ryan 10. Cutler

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360187704' post='1348143']


Yeah I'm reading you man.. It makes perfect sense.

We'll see w/ this upcoming season man. Caldwell+Flacco+Pocket = Offensive Success

w/ a complete off season under their belts I'm hoping to see more consistency and big numbers this upcoming season
then I'll put Flacco up there in the top 3.

But Brees IS benefiting in his system, it's time for Flacco to do the same if he wants to be mentioned in that category.
[/quote]

I got you. It's more of a right here right now thing with Drew and with Joe we are forced to kind of project forward based off what we saw from him playing under Caldwell.

Flacco will definitely have the opportunity and stage to perform well during the regular season next year. In the last 7 years, no Super Bowl winning QB has led his team to a playoff victory the next year. Not Brees, ARod, Ben, Eli or Peyton has been able to do it, with Brady being the last in 2005, so that's another way for Flacco to shut people up.

Not to mention he'll have some top tier QBs and pass offenses on the schedule next season with the "help" from Ray Lewis, so mostly the Ravens will have to win shootouts.

Flacco is now the face of the franchise just like the other top QBs, I can't wait to see what type of offense Caldwell puts together for Joe.

Sidenote: it's one thing to get Peyton to a MVP level, but if Caldwell can get Flacco to that level as well, he'll be deemed a great QB coach and will definitely get another HC job.

[admartian]

[quote name='ravensdan' timestamp='1360193031' post='1348330']
Really RG3?

Even Wilson?

I don't agree with those choices.. RG3 will never have a season like he just had. i believe 8. romo 9. Ryan 10. Cutler
[/quote]Honestly - I was reaching myself. Mainly because I can't put Romo there. The next best things are Cutler, Rivers, Romo or Stafford. Of all, I'd probably put Cutler then Stafford and Romo just outside the 10 though.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ravensdan' timestamp='1360193031' post='1348330']


Really RG3?

Even Wilson?

I don't agree with those choices.. RG3 will never have a season like he just had. i believe 8. romo 9. Ryan 10. Cutler
[/quote]

I find it tough to put any rookie QB in the top 10, especially when RG3 and Wilson didn't even have the success of Cam Newton as a rookie playing the same style. I'd put Luck ahead of those guys and he's not even in my top 10. I think our top 7 is the same.


1. Aaron Rogers.
I think he does the most with less. Prefect blend of laser sharper accuracy mixed with athletic ability.

2. Drew Bress
Maybe the most accurate QB. Will always produce huge numbers, but questionable decision making hurts him.

3. Tom Brady
Still great, but his days of living of his Super bowl greatest is over. Outplaying Brady is becoming too much of a trend. Still highly accurate and crafty running that fast paced offense. Short passes help keep his Ints down, but that doesn't change the fact that he can still beat any D.

4. Joe Flacco
Next to Rodgers, most physically talented "traditional" QB in the NFL. Can simple make throws that others simple can't. Unlike others he doesn't benefit from system. Deadly accurate and great decision maker. One strong regular season from moving up this list fast.

5. Peyton Manning
Still very smart and stays ahead of the defense. Should be better with another year playing with Denver, however the decision to play in Denver was a poor one imo. Those cold wheather and playoffs issues are real for Peyton and because of that, he's borderline top 5 imo. Regular season success doesn't mean as much as it used to.

6. Eli Manning
Major dropoff here imo. Eli is far to inconsistent to be in the top 5, but 2 SBs speaks loudly. He has the potential to be among the Elite, but he continues to have hit scratch plays. Puts his team in position to lose far too often, which for me negates his game winning moments.

7. Big Ben
Almost a mirror image of Eli. Praised for his ability to put his team on this shoulders, but in reality he plays mediocre for 3 1/2 quarters behind a consistently great defense and makes plays to win in the end. Elite game manager imo. Has great talent and great talent around him. Shows moments of carrying the team, but often makes too many mistakes.

8. Matt Ryan
Very talent QB sounded by great offensive talent. Consistently good, but nothing about him screams great imo. Plays well within the system, but still gets fooled by coverage in crucial moments of the game. 5 years into his career, he's starting to develop that Peyton Manning rep, great regular season but falls short in playoffss. That's the only thing that ranks him below Eli and Ben for me.

9. Philp Rivers
Still think this guy is top 10. Attitude and clutch performances keeps him stagnant around that 9-10 range with younger guys nipping at his heels. He'll be in a new offense, but still should be able to produce in the AFC West. He'll have to not only produce this year, but show he can be a playoff QB to gain back that recognition he once had, quickly becoming irrelevant in a what have you done for me lately league.

10. Matt Stafford
If you can't be a top 10QB playing with Megatron and Pettigrew, you don't belong in the NFL. He'll always have big yardage, but i question how much of that is a result of Megatron. Has too much Brett Frave free lance in him for my liking, but he has a strong arm and a unbelievable WR, so i guess I'd take chances too.

Came real close to putting some rookies on the list, but they'll have to prove they can adjust to the adjustments defenses will now make to them. I wanna see Andy Dalton step up in the biggest moments before I put him in top 10 consideration. The Steelers win was huge last year, but then he played bad in the playoffs.

Romo and Cutler are probably interchangeable with Rivers at this point. I think we all are just tired of waiting for them to turn the corner.