Merril Hoge

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='UD Ravens Fan' timestamp='1360115470' post='1347071']


Fantastic post. I can only id the top QB in that group and it's Joe Flacco with 8 games played, 18TD and 2 INT.
[/quote]

Well I figured most of us would be able to identify Smokin Joe lol. But I this is just shows how silly some of the arguments against Joe is.

Also another note. When you consider if Flacco just caught lighting in a bottle or had a solid run against average teams, during his 8gms, Flacco was pitted against a Top 5 defense 4 times Pit,Hou,Den and SF. He's thrown 10TDs 1Int in those games. So Flacco has proving he can get it done against the only the top QBs but also the top defenses as well.

I think Flacco is just getting started.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360115842' post='1347077']
Love this post! This is the type of thing that should be on Espn!
[/quote]

Yea, the sad thing is, the same guy that said don't be a prisoner of the moment is the same guy that would take Luck, RG3, Wilson and Kaep over the more accomplished Flacco. Talk about being a "Prisoner of the Moment".

[JoeCool#5]

Link of Hoge and top 5

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/8913240/top-nfl-quarterbacks

[hawkprey]

Just look at recent years.

[b]Brees[/b] had a bad year without Sean Payton and has struggled with interceptions in the past.
[b]Roethlisberger[/b] struggles to stay healthy and still struggles to make the playoffs, even with top ranked defense at his disposal.
[b]Peyton Manning[/b] has had great stats but fails in the postseason too often.
[b]Eli Manning [/b]can barely make the postseason, and looked ugly outside of last year and his 1st Super Bowl run.
[b]Aaron Rodgers[/b] put up some playoff stinkers too, but he's the only one without a top-notch O-line or defense. Gaudy numbers but only 5 playoff wins.
[b]Brady[/b] puts out stinkers against us and put out some clunkers in the playoffs, causing him to go the longest of this group without a win.

Joe has mediocre stats in the regular season because of some terrible midseason games every year. But he's a true postseason winner and just had of the best postseasons by a quarterback ever. He has the strongest arm and deep ball accuracy, so he can make all the throws anyone else can and more. He's also shown off his ability to make plays in the face of pressure or with guys hanging off of him. He doesn't need a run game or big, flashy receivers. And he just became the second QB to win a Super Bowl despite the defense giving up 31 points.

All Joe needs is some nice numbers during a regular season, and he finally has the offense to do it. Who's to say he doesn't belong at the number one spot? If there was a better quarterback, why wasn't he holding the Lombardi today?

[ravensdan]

This is an awesome post. I want to take a shot...see if this is close

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360115108' post='1347061']
I watched both the segment with Hodge and Mangini and with Hasslebeck. Both guys basically had the argument of not being a "prisoner of the Moment" with Flacco. However my argument would be, Flacco has had great postseason moments the last 3 season and if not for a few drops he might be a repeat SB winner right now.

I took the numbers of the 4 QBs who everyone has as Elite and compared them with Joe's postseason numbers since 2010. I didn't list any names, but just looking at this list who wouldn't you call elite or who wouldn't you atleast put in your Top 10?

QB#1: 7gms 1889yds 14TDs 4Ints 64.2%
[b]Rodgers[/b]
QB#2: 6gms 1842yds 15TDs 7Ints 63.1%
[b]Brady[/b]
QB#3: 3gms 1334yds. 9TDs. 2Ints 66.7%
[b]Brees[/b]
QB#4: 2gms. 515yds. 4TDs. 2Ints. 67.1%
[b]Peyton[/b]
QB#5: 8gms 2010yds 18TDs 2Ints 59.7%
[b]Flacco[/b]
I didn't post names because I think often times people will look at the names and automatically think Elite despite how good or poor their performance was. Just for fun i'll put another QB who is considered is.

QB#6: 4gms 911Yds 5TDs 5Ints 57.1%
[b]Big ben?[/b]
These are numbers from a 3 year time frame and Flacco has only been in the NFL 5 years. So if you are gonna accuse someone of being a prisoner of the moment, make sure that moment is uncommon.

Ps. Without looking it up, who could identify each QB listed? I bet even Hasslebeck and Mangini couldn't
[/quote]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ravensdan' timestamp='1360117992' post='1347148']
This is an awesome post. I want to take a shot...see if this is close
[/quote]

I wonder how many talking heads would argue against those numbers for Joe?

[Tiz]

Hoge says alot of things. Each means less than the stuff he said before.

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1360111886' post='1346954']
Aaron Rodger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are in their own realm.

What Flacco has done in this postseason is nearly perfect. But honestly, it's really silly to put Flacco ahead of those 3.

Those 3 guys will never need a defense or RB, and still carry the team on their back. They create weapons w/ any receivers on the roster and put the team on the playoffs year in, year out. They are also the clear vocal leader of their respective team.

We will probably see if Flacco can carry the team now, w/o a considerable defense if we do not pick up Reed/Ellerbe/Kruger. But right now Flacco is not #1. Lets just be honest w/ that.
[/quote]


I understand what you are saying but I am not sure I agree on Rodgers. Look at this season. He had the chance to put the team on his back and what happened? I think he still needs a good team around him, like Joe does to make things happen. Peyton can still obviously make chicken salad out of chicken droppings. Look what he did with the Broncos this year. Brady? I think he has lost a step. Or our OC just has his number. Ravens have been outplaying him for quite a few games now. There has to be a reason.


So I would agree that [u]old[/u] Brady and Peyton can carry a team. That is your 1 and 2. Rodgers and Brees are still extremely good and have been proven, so that is 3 and 4. Joe could arguably be the 5th man in the list. And that is after just 5 years in the league. Five more years he will likely be the top dog.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1360118806' post='1347172']



I understand what you are saying but I am not sure I agree on Rodgers. Look at this season. He had the chance to put the team on his back and what happened? I think he still needs a good team around him, like Joe does to make things happen. Peyton can still obviously make chicken salad out of chicken droppings. Look what he did with the Broncos this year. Brady? I think he has lost a step. Or our OC just has his number. Ravens have been outplaying him for quite a few games now. There has to be a reason.


So I would agree that [u]old[/u] Brady and Peyton can carry a team. That is your 1 and 2. Rodgers and Brees are still extremely good and have been proven, so that is 3 and 4. Joe could arguably be the 5th man in the list. And that is after just 5 years in the league. Five more years he will likely be the top dog.
[/quote]You realize the Broncos were in the playoffs with Tebow last year right? Manning had a lot to work with in a stud defense, solid WR's, and a good OL. Rodgers had a pathetic excuse for a D and an OL. Brees has unbelievable weapons to work with. Brady has similar perks but for some reason as you said has struggled against us. Rodgers is the only one I would rank over Flacco at the moment.

[jaege]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360119554' post='1347196']
You realize the Broncos were in the playoffs with Tebow last year right? Manning had a lot to work with in a stud defense, solid WR's, and a good OL. Rodgers had a pathetic excuse for a D and an OL. Brees has unbelievable weapons to work with. Brady has similar perks but for some reason as you said has struggled against us. Rodgers is the only one I would rank over Flacco at the moment.
[/quote]

Really? Wow. I guess I have a hard time putting Joe Cool above all those old greats just because it feels a bit big. Sure we think he is great, and I can honestly say there is not a QB in the league that I would take over him today or at the beginning of the season. I like his subtle reserved style. I am not one of those that needs the QB to be flamboyant. We have Sizzle for that. Still it is a mouthful to say he is better than Brady or Manning.

Regardless of what team he is on, Manning can manage a game like a master. And Brady does have a whole handful of rings, which gives him that edge of greatness. I really do not know as much about Rodgers or Brees, so my comments on them are a bit under informed. Anyone else, Pig Ben, Eli, whoever, I don't think they are even in the conversation.

Although as it stands today, Joe is the best. He has the trophy to prove it.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1360120207' post='1347210']


Really? Wow. I guess I have a hard time putting Joe Cool above all those old greats just because it feels a bit big. Sure we think he is great, and I can honestly say there is not a QB in the league that I would take over him today or at the beginning of the season. I like his subtle reserved style. I am not one of those that needs the QB to be flamboyant. We have Sizzle for that. Still it is a mouthful to say he is better than Brady or Manning.

Regardless of what team he is on, Manning can manage a game like a master. And Brady does have a whole handful of rings, which gives him that edge of greatness. I really do not know as much about Rodgers or Brees, so my comments on them are a bit under informed. Anyone else, Pig Ben, Eli, whoever, I don't think they are even in the conversation.

Although as it stands today, Joe is the best. He has the trophy to prove it.
[/quote]I agree manning and brady are all-time greats and outstanding QB's but they are both nearing the end of their careers and Peyton was never a playoff QB Brady was significantly better in that regard but he wasn't dominant or anything he had a stacked D that carried him at first (remind you of anyone?) then he began taking over and setting records and became the face of the Franchise and to some degree the league but lost 2 super bowls since spygate and the loss of his D.. Brees just makes way to many mistakes to put him up with Joe at the moment. So therefore Joe and Rodgers are my top 2. Ben is definitely top 6 no matter how much I hate him when he is healthy he can take over games. Eli is just really streaky and got hot at the right time twice so he isn't in the conversation for me.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360119554' post='1347196']
You realize the Broncos were in the playoffs with Tebow last year right? Manning had a lot to work with in a stud defense, solid WR's, and a good OL. Rodgers had a pathetic excuse for a D and an OL. Brees has unbelievable weapons to work with. Brady has similar perks but for some reason as you said has struggled against us. Rodgers is the only one I would rank over Flacco at the moment.
[/quote]

I actually think we are looking at Flacco and Rodgers being 1a 1b over the next 5-10 years honestly. It's tough for people to see that in Joe because of his average regular season numbers, but I think he'll more then shine bright with Caldwell because now just like the other elites, he now has a play caller who understands him and TRUST him.

I think Flacco will have a huge regular season next year because I think you'll see more creativity and even better schemes because Caldwell will have a whole offseason to put his weapons in a better place. Caldwell did a great job with the offense he was given, but now he and Flacco have a full offense to get together and install all the things Flacco loves to do and that highlight his talents.

I think from a standpoint of reading the defense and being able to attack any and every area of the field, I think Flacco and ARod are the best and that to me is the reason why they are my #1 and #2 QBs going into 2013. I'll put ARod #1 because he took his team to 15-1 following his Super Bowl run. I wanna see Flacco shut everyone up during the 2013 season.

[TonyTone1192]

I will take Flacco ANY and EVERY day of the week.

But to say that he is better than Rodgers or Brees is a TAD bit over the top. I believe he is def. top 10 and if he and our offensive line can play consistent this upcoming season I'll have him as the third best QB, until he climbs to number 1. Until then....
1. Rodgers 2. Brees 3. Peyton 4. Brady 5. Joe Cool

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360122767' post='1347268']


I actually think we are looking at Flacco and Rodgers being 1a 1b over the next 5-10 years honestly. It's tough for people to see that in Joe because of his average regular season numbers, but I think he'll more then shine bright with Caldwell because now just like the other elites, he now has a play caller who understands him and TRUST him.

I think Flacco will have a huge regular season next year because I think you'll see more creativity and even better schemes because Caldwell will have a wholle to put his weapons in a better place. Caldwell did a great job with the offense he was given, but now he and Flacco have a full offense to get together and install all the things Flacco loves to do and that highlight his talents.

I think from a standpoint of reading the defense and being able to attack any and every area of the field, I think Flacco and ARod are the best and that to me is the reason why they are my #1 and #2 QBs going into 2013. I'll put ARod #1 because he took his team to 15-1 following his Super Bowl run. I wanna see Flacco shut everyone up during the 2013 season.
[/quote]I agree completely.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360122942' post='1347276']
I will take Flacco ANY and EVERY day of the week.

But to say that he is better than Rodgers or Brees is a TAD bit over the top. I believe he is def. top 10 and if he and our offensive line can play consistent this upcoming season I'll have him as the third best QB, until he climbs to number 1. Until then....
1. Rodgers 2. Brees 3. Peyton 4. Brady 5. Joe Cool
[/quote]Peyton can't play in the playoffs how can he be ahead of Joe at this point?

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1360113371' post='1347012']
Flacco shut up all his detractors, now even Hodge and Heath Evans are [b]hanging off his jock strap[/b].
[/quote]

exactly! let them keep swinging!

~Mili

[Larryterri]

Not looking at numbers, just looking at the guys on the TV, Flacco looked a hell of alot better than Rodgers. Sorry but I dont see what was so impressive about him, unless you like insurance commercials.

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360123030' post='1347281']
Peyton can't play in the playoffs how can he be ahead of Joe at this point?
[/quote]

Because he's probably the best regular season qb to ever play the game. I certainly agree w/ you but at this point in time they both have the same amount of super bowls and Joe has one more win. I believe he'll climb past Brady and Manning but what they've been doing on a consistent basis and their body of work is greater than Joe's at this point in time.

if you asked me to pick a manning to play back yard football I'm picking Petyon. If you ask me to pick a manning to lead my team to the super bowl I'm picking Eli.

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='Larryterri' timestamp='1360123632' post='1347294']
Not looking at numbers, just looking at the guys on the TV, Flacco looked a hell of alot better than Rodgers. Sorry but I dont see what was so impressive about him, unless you like insurance commercials.
[/quote]

I LOVE Joe! And I wouldn't pick ANY qb over him. He has the strongest arm in the league, no doubt about that. But Rodgers is consistently more accurate than Joe. I'm not saying Joe isn't accurate but Rodgers back shoulder throws are unguardable.
Joe's back shoulder throws are only unguardable if he's throwing to 81

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360123881' post='1347303']


Because he's probably the best regular season qb to ever play the game. I certainly agree w/ you but at this point in time they both have the same amount of super bowls and Joe has one more win. I believe he'll climb past Brady and Manning but what they've been doing on a consistent basis and their body of work is greater than Joe's at this point in time.

if you asked me to pick a manning to play back yard football I'm picking Petyon. If you ask me to pick a manning to lead my team to the super bowl I'm picking Eli.
[/quote]I understand that but in this society where if you aren't first you are last the regular season counts for nothing and the playoffs count for everything and Flacco trumps Peyton in that regard.

[Larryterri]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360124051' post='1347307']
I LOVE Joe! And I wouldn't pick ANY qb over him. He has the strongest arm in the league, no doubt about that. But Rodgers is consistently more accurate than Joe. I'm not saying Joe isn't accurate but Rodgers back shoulder throws are unguardable.
Joe's back shoulder throws are only unguardable if he's throwing to 81
[/quote]

I dunno, lets see Caldwell and Joe after an offseason. I think we'll all be plesantly surprised. I hope so, because Pees will have his work cut out for him...

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='Larryterri' timestamp='1360123632' post='1347294']
Not looking at numbers, just looking at the guys on the TV, Flacco looked a hell of alot better than Rodgers. Sorry but I dont see what was so impressive about him, unless you like insurance commercials.
[/quote]Rodgers threw nearly 40 TD passes this year with a sorry excuse for an O-line and an injured WR unit while carrying his team into the playoffs how is that not impressive? Oh yeah and he won a Super Bowl 2 years ago and went 15-1 right after that with a legendary passing season.... Joe ain't quite there yet.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Larryterri' timestamp='1360123632' post='1347294']
Not looking at numbers, just looking at the guys on the TV, Flacco looked a hell of alot better than Rodgers. Sorry but I dont see what was so impressive about him, unless you like insurance commercials.
[/quote]

Like some people have said before me. I love Joe to death. But if we have poor O-line play its a different story. Rodgers was around the top in getting sacked this year. He had no run game and can make every single throw. He's a damn fine QB.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1360122942' post='1347276']
I will take Flacco ANY and EVERY day of the week.

But to say that he is better than Rodgers or Brees is a TAD bit over the top. I believe he is def. top 10 and if he and our offensive line can play consistent this upcoming season I'll have him as the third best QB, until he climbs to number 1. Until then....
1. Rodgers 2. Brees 3. Peyton 4. Brady 5. Joe Cool
[/quote]

What makes Brees so much better? No knock to Brees, i'm actually a big fan of his. However, I feel like Drew has free range to just pass pass pass. I feel like if you are throwing the ball 40-50 times a game, you have no reason not to throw for 300+ per game. Also with Brees you're talking about a QB who could be up 35-14 in the 4th quarter and his coach will not only keep him in the game, but allow him to continue throwing.

What makes Brees so great is his accuracy. You give him 4-5 WRs on the field and he'll definitely find the open man. I feel like he plays in a favorable offense that usually hass guys running free all the time. I wonder if he'd have this type of success if he stayed in Cam Cameron's offense for 10-12 years.

I think sometimes we get the talent of the QB confused with his success in a certain system.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1360124697' post='1347324']
Like some people have said before me. I love Joe to death. But if we have poor O-line play its a different story. Rodgers was around the top in getting sacked this year. He had no run game and can make every single throw. He's a damn fine QB.
[/quote] I like our O-line but I think some people here are overstating how good they were in pass protection. It's because Joe is great - maybe the best - at throwing under pressure. You don't even notice it half the time that he makes a big throw and gets knocked over just after. And he also breaks arm tackles that would get most QBs sacked.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1360124383' post='1347319']
Rodgers threw nearly 40 TD passes this year with a sorry excuse for an O-line and an injured WR unit while carrying his team into the playoffs how is that not impressive? Oh yeah and he won a Super Bowl 2 years ago and went 15-1 right after that with a legendary passing season.... Joe ain't quite there yet.
[/quote]

Like Stephen A. says, Rodgers is a Baaadddd Man. I can't wait to see him and Flacco have at it next season. It'll probably be more wow throws in that 1 game then a full season with some other QBs.

They should put that game on MNF and allow Jaws to come back just for that game. He'd probably lose his mind watching all the throws Flacco and A. Rod makes.

[ellicottraven]

I watched it and I was stunned. He is one of those typical Flacco and Ravens haters.... While I liked the fact that he thinks Flacco is the best QB right now, I also question the way these guys change positions....

On a different subject, Jamie Buck Teeth Dukes cannot tolerate our success and how bad he is looking to everybody with his hatred of the Ravens... he still contends that Flacco is too inconsistent to be elite. His reasoning is Flacco had 8 games in the past two seasons with a rating of less than 80 and says Manning and Brady had only one each. The moron fails to compare their first 5 years to Flacco's!!!!!!! Then he would know he is a pathetic fool!

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1360125141' post='1347333']
What makes Brees so much better? No knock to Brees, i'm actually a big fan of his. However, I feel like Drew has free range to just pass pass pass. I feel like if you are throwing the ball 40-50 times a game, you have no reason not to throw for 300+ per game. Also with Brees you're talking about a QB who could be up 35-14 in the 4th quarter and his coach will not only keep him in the game, but allow him to continue throwing.

What makes Brees so great is his accuracy. You give him 4-5 WRs on the field and he'll definitely find the open man. I feel like he plays in a favorable offense that usually hass guys running free all the time. I wonder if he'd have this type of success if he stayed in Cam Cameron's offense for 10-12 years.

I think sometimes we get the talent of the QB confused with his success in a certain system.
[/quote]

Qb's thrive in a system that fits them best, I agree w/ that. Brees played well in SD too but they chose not to stick w/ him b/c of his height, his injury and they had Rivers sitting on the bench.

But two seasons ago (The season before Sean Peyton had his year long suspension) Drew Brees also broke the all-time single season completion % record w/ him completing 71% of his pass attempts.

You have to think about that for a second, this man has VERY little running game and his defense is mediocre at best.
To complete 71% of your passes FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON when you're throwing the ball 40+ times a game and defenses KNOW that you're throwing it 40+ times a game.. That's nothing short of spectacular

Like is said before I'm taking NOTHING away from Joe. He's our QB and I wouldn't trade him for ANYBODY! But I don't see him better than Brees at this moment in time

[hawkprey]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1360125897' post='1347345']
I watched it and I was stunned. He is one of those typical Flacco and Ravens haters.... While I liked the fact that he thinks Flacco is the best QB right now, I also question the way these guys change positions....

On a different subject, Jamie Buck Teeth Dukes cannot tolerate our success and how bad he is looking to everybody with his hatred of the Ravens... he still contends that Flacco is too inconsistent to be elite. His reasoning is Flacco had 8 games in the past two seasons with a rating of less than 80 and says Manning and Brady had only one each. The moron fails to compare their first 5 years to Flacco's!!!!!!! Then he would know he is a pathetic fool!
[/quote] Brady had 4 really bad playoff games in the last 4 years: to us (3 times) and the Jets. Manning only played 1 year in the last 2 years. Brady had 4 regular season games under 80 this year.

[Moderator 2]

For the first 2 years Joe needed Cam for some polish and how to be a QB since there was no-one to teach him after that Cam was holding him back in my opinion, then there were no receivers but Made and Heap and slowly they got the pieces together, This year the O-line shuffle and Cam were holding Joe back-- after Cam was cut it was sink or swim and Joe turned into Michael Phelps in the playoffs.
I think everyone in Baltimore was afraid of Joe turning into Kyle Boller, and so called "experts' only read the stat line, I swear they don't watch our games,
Jaws, Theisman and Simms have always been fair to Joe,