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Purple_ICE 81

Thoughts on Ray Rice

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Just want to get some feedback on how you all feel about Rice after the emergence of Pierce this year, Rice's slight downward production output and fumbling woes.
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The only thing that concerns me with Rice is his fumbling in the playoffs. That's just something I'm concered about in the post season.

But in the regular season he's money. And his backup could be a starter. I love it.
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I feel great about Rice. He's still productive when every team they play is bound and deteremined to stop him ... not just stop the Ravens, but specifically to stop Ray Rice. We'll see what happens with Pierce if he begins to get more carries and teams begin to scheme for him.

What Rice brings to the table besides running (his great blocking and receiver with YAK), there's no way my opinion of his worth changes. As for fumbles, he had 3 all year long after about - what - 300-400 touches? They just happen to come in the playoffs. Doesn't worry me ... as long as he stays mentally tough and doesn't overthink it and start settling for yards.
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[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1360007910' post='1345009']
Ray Rice is 26. When we drafted him, McGahee was 26.

It's the circle of life.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc[/media]
[/quote]
Lol, true. One day we may see BP as the starter over Rice in the next 3 years or so.
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In the big picture I'm not concerned about Rice at all - nor am I expecting much from Pierce all things considered.

Rice wasonce before "accused" of being a fumbler in his second season when he had a couple fumbles in a few games (one fumble was on a hit vs Cincy that was latter untagged as a fumble and made into incomplete pass or something like that). That tag vanished as Rice showed he was one of best at not fumbling. If anything Rice's record has shown he is not a big fumbler at all - far from it. Yesterdays fumble was not an "opps" kind of fumble but a perfect hit on tha ball half a second after Rice caught it. He was making a robust spin to face forward and defender caught him at perfect time. This play could happen to anyone despite it being 1 a 1 in a thousand hit.

As for running - I've said before the run game is the first thing to vanish in the playoffs. Most playoff defenses have the talent to defend against it (even Adrain Peterson stays under 100 yds). Only the best OLs can keep the run going and the Ravens dont have one (they are better at pass blocking but run blocking still stinks). Rice didn't run for too much yesterday and Pierce had even less. Gore ony got unleashed when Nagata left. If you want to say Pierce made some big plays well Rice made more (he probably would have had a TD on one run if Leaches didn't trip him).

Now we get to defenses - defenses key on Rice by stacking the box, using spies (yesterday it was Navarro) and scheming the defense so the DEs (using the 4 technique I believe) keep Rice from getting outside. I hear peopel saying Pierce is "faster" to the outside which isn't true. Pierce ran same 4.49 in Combine Rice ran and Rice has more burst. Rice has the speed to run outiside but defenses purposely take that away when Rice is in - not so when Pierce is in.

Pierce as an inkmown and his speed caught defenders unaware. That hapens in the NFL for 7 weeks or so when a player is new and then the film is out and defenses get educated.

Pierce runs with while planting legs very hard. Legs like that don't "give" too well when hit and thats a reason he is injury prone.

In a game vs a great defense like SanFran rice up the middle over and over just won't get much with the Ravens OL. They get a push but they dont create gaps against defesnes intended to stop same.

Of course Rice makes one reception for every 4 runs (Pierce makes one reception evey 15 runs) and in open space he is unique. The Rice play vs San Diego is what got Ravens to Super Bowl and very few runners can make a play like that. The Ravens only have one and I'm not worried about him at all (aside from fact I think he gotten a little too big from wieghts. 212 on a 5'7" body is pushing it).
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Teams focus first on stopping Ray Rice. They don't spend their time game planning against Pierce. They need to stop Ray Rice and Flacco first which is enough on their plate already given Torrey, Anquan, and Pitta.

When Ray Rice leaves the game opposing defenses focus on stopping the pass first. He hasn't gotten that kind of respect yet. You really can't count his true production until he is a starter. I believe he is starting material but not better than Ray Rice.
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I still love little ray and i dont want him to go anywhere. I love the mix with BP and think they are a great one two combo. Ive said it before and ill say it again, id love to see them line rice up in the slot with BP in the backfield, i think that would cause major issues for defense. Rice is possibly the best rb in the league when he catches the ball in the backfield, our running back situation is looking great for the future
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I was a little disappointed in Rice yesterday, but he's a great playmaker and Im happy he's a part of the team.

As good as Pierce is, I wouldnt be surprised if hes starting in a few seasons though.
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I think Ray had a rough post season...but we never get there this year without him. He made tons of huge plays including the famous "Hey Diddle Diddle 3rd and 29" that kept our season alive. These guys are humans and have ups and downs...I am thrilled to have Ray Ray and BP!
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Rice is obviously a top 5 HB in the NFL for what he brings as a complete player. But he leaves so much to be desired in the run game and the playoffs particularly. I mean you have to find ways to make plays in the playoffs and Rice is just so below average in the playoffs its concerning. Teams gameplan to stop Foster, AP etc in the playoffs too, but they still make plays.
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I like Ray Rice, a lot. Him and Pierce, they extend plays. There were countless times last night when I thought we were stopped for negative yardage, but Rice is so shifty and he can make plays out of nothing with his cutbacks. It's unbelievable to watch. The same can be said for Pierce when he's running east to west, he cuts right up the sideline and picks up 8 yards when I think he's going to lose 3.

A wonderful 1-2 punch in my eyes. They both bring different things to the table, and they both can make people miss.
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[quote name='marylandmike12' timestamp='1360017833' post='1345320']
the only thing with BP is he seems to always be hurt
[/quote]
Yes, yes. This was the knock on him coming out of college. I don't know if he has the durability to handle a full workload. We'll have to see next year with a full offseason to workout with the Ravens. That's why I can't see us doing anything with Rice until Pierce can stay healthy. We've been BLESSED to have two key elements of our offense (Flacco & Rice) to be healthy an entire season without missing a GAME. That's incredible!

I don't see Rice going anywhere, however. While it would be nice to get a draft pick for him in a few years when/if he declines, he's so valuable as a WR that I can't see him going anywhere. He'll also be a lot cheaper towards the end of his contract, in about 2 more years. If I recall correctly, the first three years were where the money was.
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Rice is a complete back. He can get through the middle, get to the edge, and make catches outside. Not sure if pierce is all 3 of that, or even as durable as Rice. Pierce is more of a Fred Jackson/Mcfadden. Amazing talent, but doesnt have the intangibles that Rice have.

BUT that might change next year. Its really up to Ray Rice. If he wants to be a featured back in Ravens uniform, he need to be a dominant RB and show us that his worth the 8.5m/year. If not, Pierce will take his throne or we will draft one.
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I REALLY dont want to say it.

I love me some Ray Rice, but he struggles in the post season it seems.
By no means do I feel he is expandable. NO WAY !! I am just sayin I am thankful we have Pierce.
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1360030784' post='1345704']
I REALLY dont want to say it.

I love me some Ray Rice, but he struggles in the post season it seems.
By no means do I feel he is expandable. NO WAY !! I am just sayin I am thankful we have Pierce.
[/quote]
Pierce is going to be a superstar. The dude makes plays like its nothing.

If he works on his reciving ability. Look Out!
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Bernard Pierce is a better runner than Ray Rice. But, nowadays, a lot more goes into being a running back than just running the ball. Rice is more valuable to the team than Pierce is right now, especially because of what he adds to the passing game.
That being said, I've been a HUGE Bernard Pierce fan since the preseason, and would love to see the carries split about 50-50 next year. I wouldn't even be shocked if Pierce has more rushing yards than Rice does in 2013, but Rice is still a stud player that we wouldn't have won a Super Bowl without.
His lack of production in the playoffs is concerning, I'll admit. Part of that is because we're playing good defenses in the playoffs. Ray Rice is a so good at many things, but the biggest knock on him, from my perspective, is that he isn't patient as a runner. That's vital for running against a good rush defense. It's important for us to have a good #2 running back for defenses that give Rice a hard time, and especially when we're in short yardage situations. I think the styles of Rice and Pierce are a great compliment to each other, and we'll make great use of both of them next year.
By the way, did anybody get excited when they saw Rice and Pierce on the field at the same time early in the game? I think it was a rush for Pierce, but it was great to see a new look after two weeks of preparation.
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[quote name='Footman DCXLV' timestamp='1360053147' post='1346095']
Bernard Pierce is a better runner than Ray Rice. But, nowadays, a lot more goes into being a running back than just running the ball. Rice is more valuable to the team than Pierce is right now, especially because of what he adds to the passing game.
That being said, I've been a HUGE Bernard Pierce fan since the preseason, and would love to see the carries split about 50-50 next year. I wouldn't even be shocked if Pierce has more rushing yards than Rice does in 2013, but Rice is still a stud player that we wouldn't have won a Super Bowl without.
His lack of production in the playoffs is concerning, I'll admit. Part of that is because we're playing good defenses in the playoffs. Ray Rice is a so good at many things, but the biggest knock on him, from my perspective, is that he isn't patient as a runner. That's vital for running against a good rush defense. It's important for us to have a good #2 running back for defenses that give Rice a hard time, and especially when we're in short yardage situations. I think the styles of Rice and Pierce are a great compliment to each other, and we'll make great use of both of them next year.
By the way, did anybody get excited when they saw Rice and Pierce on the field at the same time early in the game? I think it was a rush for Pierce, but it was great to see a new look after two weeks of preparation.
[/quote]
Yes, I remember the play where Rice & Pierce were in the game at the same time. Pierce was the "FB" but ran the ball for a big gain.
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I believe that although Rice did have 3 fumbles in the post-season, he is still a huge asset to the team.
Having Pierce in the backfield provides one of the best one-two punches in the league which therefore takes some of the workload off of rice, and allows him to rest his body more and more.
It wouldnt surprise me to see Pierce get more carries next year, and if he can keep his production up, possibly become the starter closer to the end of Rice's contract.

Right now however, Rice is detrimental to the team. He can Run, catch, block and has an amazing chemistry with Flacco, something that Pierce does not have yet.

And Imho, his fumble in the super bowl would have been a fumble regardless of who the Running back was that was carrying it.
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1360017700' post='1345316']
Rice is obviously a top 5 HB in the NFL for what he brings as a complete player. But he leaves so much to be desired in the run game and the playoffs particularly. I mean you have to find ways to make plays in the playoffs and Rice is just so below average in the playoffs its concerning. Teams gameplan to stop Foster, AP etc in the playoffs too, but they still make plays.
[/quote]


The Texans have one of the best run blocking OLs in the NFL . Ravens pass blocking has gotten better but the run blocking is still lame. How much of that is due to scheme is up for debate but facts are neitehr Rice or Pierce had any holes to run through in Super Bowl.

If you follow baseball you know playoff baseball games are much tighter and low scoring. Offensive production goes down. The best pitchers and players play more. NFL is a bit the same. The top defenses know how to stop RBs and only a top OL can overcome it and the Ravens don't have one. If there aren't any holes (and its obvious there aren't any for Ravens - unlike Texans) you can't expect RBs to levitate over the line of scrimage. I would love to see Rice run behind a line like the Texans. The deck is always stacked against him defensively (thats been true since soph year at Rutgers) and a decent run blocking line/scheme is needed to compensate for that. Rice really doesn't need much of a hole but he rarely even gets minimal gap
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If we are going to ride the arm of our new general we could just go running back by committee focus on bp and change pace with Rainey or Berry. we also have ant allen who has been proving himself all season on st. I think we will keep ray but after the switch to caldwell and the emergence of BP he is more of a luxury with a high paycheck than anything else. with that being said, we dont make it to the bowl w/o hey diddle diddle
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1360015417' post='1345242']
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Teams focus first on stopping Ray Rice. They don't spend their time game planning against Pierce. They need to stop Ray Rice and Flacco first which is enough on their plate already given Torrey, Anquan, and Pitta.

When Ray Rice leaves the game opposing defenses focus on stopping the pass first. He hasn't gotten that kind of respect yet. You really can't count his true production until he is a starter. I believe he is starting material but not better than Ray Rice.
[/quote]

How does game planning change the way you stop the run? I'm curious.

My thoughts on Rice? Great receiving back. Great in space. Overrated as a pure runner. Good, but overrated.
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Ray rice is still the man. He's a complete 3 down back whose work ethic is through the charts. He is going to continue to work this offseason and come back with a chip on his shoulder next year knowing that he has competition now. Regardless, rice and BP are a great 1-2 punch for years to come.
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[quote name='rayrayven' timestamp='1360081857' post='1346274']
The Texans have one of the best run blocking OLs in the NFL . Ravens pass blocking has gotten better but the run blocking is still lame. How much of that is due to scheme is up for debate but facts are neitehr Rice or Pierce had any holes to run through in Super Bowl.

If you follow baseball you know playoff baseball games are much tighter and low scoring. Offensive production goes down. The best pitchers and players play more. NFL is a bit the same. The top defenses know how to stop RBs and only a top OL can overcome it and the Ravens don't have one. If there aren't any holes (and its obvious there aren't any for Ravens - unlike Texans) you can't expect RBs to levitate over the line of scrimage. I would love to see Rice run behind a line like the Texans. The deck is always stacked against him defensively (thats been true since soph year at Rutgers) and a decent run blocking line/scheme is needed to compensate for that. Rice really doesn't need much of a hole but he rarely even gets minimal gap
[/quote]
Too often thats a cop out for me with the Oline. We just went up against one of the best front 7s in the NFL so I didnt expect Rice or Pierce to have heydays but this is the same story with Rice against any team with a hint of talent in the front 7. He simply doesn't break tackles or create plays himself in the run game. We actually have 3 damn good run blockers in Osemele, Yanda and Oher. Thats 2/3 of our interior line. Again, Rice is a phenomenal back, but he struggles mightily against teams with good front 7s and its not for lack of run blocking at times.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360089159' post='1346460']
How does game planning change the way you stop the run? I'm curious.

My thoughts on Rice? Great receiving back. Great in space. Overrated as a pure runner. Good, but overrated.
[/quote]

Umm..Everything. Players don't just run out on the field and go. Teams decide what personnel they need when certain players are in the game. When Ray Rice is in the game the Suggs-type players focus on setting the edge. When he leaves they focus on pass rushing. Kruger comes in when their top backs are usually out and on 3rd downs. When Ray Rice is in the defense is thinking about him first. When Pierce is in, he may be only slightly in the back of their minds.

You clearly don't know much about football.
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1360116217' post='1347082']
Umm..Everything. Players don't just run out on the field and go. Teams decide what personnel they need when certain players are in the game. When Ray Rice is in the game the Suggs-type players focus on setting the edge. When he leaves they focus on pass rushing. Kruger comes in when their top backs are usually out and on 3rd downs. When Ray Rice is in the defense is thinking about him first. When Pierce is in, he may be only slightly in the back of their minds.

You clearly don't know much about football.
[/quote]

Lol. Okay. So what, do gap integrity, technique, play recognition, and tackling fly out the window when you have one back in and not the other? Hell no!!! The technique doesn't change at all!!! In fact, if Pierce was in, I'd think they'd be more inclined to stop the run since he tends to get the ball when he's in. But you know, I don't know much about football. Lmao!
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1360116377' post='1347090']
Lol. Okay. So what, do gap integrity, technique, play recognition, and tackling fly out the window when you have one back in and not the other? Hell no!!! The technique doesn't change at all!!! In fact, if Pierce was in, I'd think they'd be more inclined to stop the run since he tends to get the ball when he's in. But you know, I don't know much about football. Lmao!
[/quote]

You don't. Yeah execution is a big part of it but the simple fact remains that teams aren't focused on stopping Pierce. They have two top priorities which are Flacco and Rice. They expect Flacco to throw the ball when Rice leaves. When Pierce enters, they still expect him to throw the ball and leave minimal guys in the box to stop the run.
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1360117737' post='1347139']
You don't. Yeah execution is a big part of it but the simple fact remains that teams aren't focused on stopping Pierce. They have two top priorities which are Flacco and Rice. They expect Flacco to throw the ball when Rice leaves. When Pierce enters, they still expect him to throw the ball and leave minimal guys in the box to stop the run.
[/quote]

I really don't think you even watch Pierce play.

I'm not going to bother to keep this nonsense going.
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