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flaccopoe

The Necessary Cuts

The Necessary Cuts   305 votes

  1. 1. Who would you pick?

    • Ed Reed
      21
    • Paul Kruger
      30
    • Bryant McKinnie
      18
    • Art Jones
      6
    • Dennis Pitta
      0
    • Dannell Ellerbe
      3
    • Ma'ake Kemoeatu
      53
    • Ed Dickson
      28
    • Cary Williams
      66
    • James Ihedigbo
      28
    • Josh Bynes
      32
    • Other
      20

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110 posts in this topic

Who would you prefer the Ravens' front office cut to make room for Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco's huge new contract? Keep in mind Baltimore's priorities and budget. [would've posted more choices, but I ran out of space on the Poll}
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Just putting this out there for discussion, would cutting Suggs or Rice help our cap at all? I DONT want to see Suggs go, but if the FO has reason to believe he won't be the same player, we can't pay him his huge salary. In regards to Rice, I think rb is the most overvalued position as the line does most the work anyways. If cutting Rice meant bringing back Reed, Ellerbe, Flacco, and keeping Boldin, I would do it. Pierce is not the blocker or receiver that Rice is, but he is just as good a runner.
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Too soon Poe, too soon. All of these guys are SB winning Ravens. None of them deserve to be talked about getting cut tonight.
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1359960027' post='1343827']
Too soon Poe, too soon. All of these guys are SB winning Ravens. None of them deserve to be talked about getting cut tonight.
[/quote]

Agree. They'll be plenty of time for this discussion down the road. Right now, relax, and enjoy.
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Cary Williams is good money! I'm surprised so many people are voting for him. I wouldn't want to cut too many parts of the defense, given Lewis' departure and Reed and Suggs' aging.
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[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1359960183' post='1343832']
This is too soon man. Ravens as a TEAM[b] just won the superbowl. [/b] Lets celebrate pls
[/quote]

Alright, vote tomorrow if you'd prefer!
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Let's table this discussion for a week or until the parade at least. These guys deserve their 15 minutes and moreeeee!!! We have to say goodbye to Ray too...it has been a long season, enjoy the ride, soak up every second.
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[quote name='Grapple Raven' timestamp='1359960677' post='1343845']
Let's table this discussion for a week or until the parade at least. These guys deserve their 15 minutes and moreeeee!!! We have to say goodbye to Ray too...it has been a long season, enjoy the ride, soak up every second.
[/quote]

Just looking ahead! Maybe if we buy enough Ravens merchandise, the Ravens can retain all their players! :ravensquote:[size=4] [/size]
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359960431' post='1343837']
Cary Williams is good money! I'm surprised so many people are voting for him. I wouldn't want to cut too many parts of the defense, given Lewis' departure and Reed and Suggs' aging.
[/quote]
Cary Williams is requesting too much he and Paul kruger both request around 8-10 million a year...no way we will retain them. With the emergance of Brown, and Graham and Webb coming back next year Williams isnt a big need. Dont think we retain Williams or Kruger unless they take low contracts
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1359962113' post='1343898']
Cary Williams is requesting too much he and Paul kruger both request around 8-10 million a year...no way we will retain them. With the emergance of Brown, and Graham and Webb coming back next year Williams isnt a big need. Dont think we retain Williams or Kruger unless they take low contracts
[/quote]

BAL needs to retain Kruger, at the very least. He's one of the anchors of BAL's defense.
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[quote name='shootyoup' timestamp='1359960019' post='1343825']
Just putting this out there for discussion, would cutting Suggs or Rice help our cap at all? I DONT want to see Suggs go, but if the FO has reason to believe he won't be the same player, we can't pay him his huge salary. In regards to Rice, I think rb is the most overvalued position as the line does most the work anyways. If cutting Rice meant bringing back Reed, Ellerbe, Flacco, and keeping Boldin, I would do it. Pierce is not the blocker or receiver that Rice is, but he is just as good a runner.
[/quote]

No it wouldn't, it would still detract a lot of money from the cap. Rice will probably be traded in a year or two, but he'll be on the team next season for sure because of all the guaranteed money we'd still be responsible for. If we didn't get bogged down with his contract, that'd be the most logical move, but unfortunately we've hitched our wagon to him for the next few seasons. If Suggs does not return to his DPOY form, our defense next year will be even worse than the one this year. He's our only hope in the short term to turn things around on that side of the ball, no way Sizzle gets cut. Plus, I believe he has $10 million guaranteed that we'd be responsible for.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1359964041' post='1343963']
No it wouldn't, it would still detract a lot of money from the cap. Rice will probably be traded in a year or two, but he'll be on the team next season for sure because of all the guaranteed money we'd still be responsible for. If we didn't get bogged down with his contract, that'd be the most logical move, but unfortunately we've hitched our wagon to him for the next few seasons. If Suggs does not return to his DPOY form, our defense next year will be even worse than the one this year. He's our only hope in the short term to turn things around on that side of the ball, no way Sizzle gets cut. Plus, I believe he has $10 million guaranteed that we'd be responsible for.
[/quote]

Good thing BAL now has Pierce to fall back on if they choose to part ways with Rice. As for Suggs, we'll just have to wait and see how his progress goes.
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Our defense ran out of juice in the second half. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are not the huge difference makers anymore (Ed's pick was more on Kap then anyone). Our whole defense basically fell apart, when Ngata got injured. Suggs looked average as well, being outplayed by Kruger.
Most of our talent lies suddenly on our offense. Joe, Torrey, Boldin, Pitta (Seriously take his name off the potential cuts! That ridiculous!) or our OLine (can't believe I just typed it). Pierce and Rice (a fumble again?) had average to mixed performances though.
It's hard to predict, what the FO will need to do in the off-season, but I would assume some minor tweaks to the OL and some major drafting on defense.
I don't know, if we should resign Reed.
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1359967201' post='1344019']
Our defense ran out of juice in the second half. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are not the huge difference makers anymore (Ed's pick was more on Kap then anyone). Our whole defense basically fell apart, when Ngata got injured. Suggs looked average as well, being outplayed by Kruger.
Most of our talent lies suddenly on our offense. Joe, Torrey, Boldin, Pitta (Seriously take his name off the potential cuts! That ridiculous!) or our OLine (can't believe I just typed it). Pierce and Rice (a fumble again?) had average to mixed performances though.
It's hard to predict, what the FO will need to do in the off-season, but I would assume some minor tweaks to the OL and some major drafting on defense.
I don't know, if we should resign Reed.
[/quote]

Do you want BAL to part ways with 34-year old Bryant McKinnie?
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Would love to see Art, Reed, Pitta, and Kruger all be back. McKinnie would be a plus too. But the rest imo are expendable.
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359967525' post='1344027']
Do you want BAL to part ways with 34-year old Bryant McKinnie?
[/quote]

Yes, but that one cut will not be enough, imho.
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1359967716' post='1344032']
Yes, but that one cut will not be enough, imho.
[/quote]

For the O-line?
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[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1359967716' post='1344031']
Would love to see Art, Reed, Pitta, and Kruger all be back. McKinnie would be a plus too. But the rest imo are expendable.
[/quote]

If I had to cut 1 of the players you mentioned, it would be Reed. He simply won't be worth the price he'll demand for the duration of his tenure in the NFL.
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359967771' post='1344034']
For the O-line?
[/quote]

No. I meant for the team in general. I would hope we can pick up a good replacement for McKinnie in the earlier rounds.
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1359968028' post='1344039']
No. I meant for the team in general. I would hope we can pick up a good replacement for McKinnie in the earlier rounds.
[/quote]

Baltimore's going to need to cut a lot more than that to stay under the cap!
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359968760' post='1344049']
None of those players are under contract so none can be cut.
[/quote]

Technicalities... who do you want BAL to [i]re-sign[/i], arnie?
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Pitta will be tendered. There is enough cap to keep Pitta and Flacco. Most of the people you named though are FAs anyway. I say redo Boldin and Leach. Birk probably retires giving more cap space. Ellerbe needs to be brought back to me. I would restructure Suggs contract, but don't see it happening. Would also like to keep Kruger cause I've always thought he would be good, but he has earned himself a nice payday. This will be an interesting off season as far as personnel moves.
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[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1359970593' post='1344064']
Pitta will be tendered. There is enough cap to keep Pitta and Flacco. Most of the people you named though are FAs anyway. I say redo Boldin and Leach. Birk probably retires giving more cap space. Ellerbe needs to be brought back to me. I would restructure Suggs contract, but don't see it happening. Would also like to keep Kruger cause I've always thought he would be good, but he has earned himself a nice payday. This will be an interesting off season as far as personnel moves.
[/quote]

What about McKinnie and the other FAs?
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359971003' post='1344073']


What about McKinnie and the other FAs?
[/quote]


I think McKinnie is a FA as well. I think or hope we try to draft a LT if they don't think one is on the team already. I'm not sure if the team can afford to keep McKinnie. Most of the guys are expandable. I think the needs in the draft will be tackle, nose tackle, lb and tight end. I think the team tries to position itself to resign Reed, while keeping Flacco Pitta and Ellerbe. Cary is gone and Jimmy will step up. Asa will prove valuable too I think. The team doesn't have many needs, mostly just filling holes in the depth chart that will be left from some of the guys leaving.
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Here's hoping Asa Jackson stays off the roids... BAL will need all hands on deck, post-cuts.
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359969662' post='1344051']


Technicalities... who do you want BAL to [i]re-sign[/i], arnie?
[/quote]its not technicalities, cutting saves money resigning costs money.

I'd like to see leach Jones and boldin all re structured. Ellerbe retained, pitta dickson and art etc are rfa so they will be cheap. Work out longterm deals after the tender with Jones and pitta like Webb last year.

Kruger is a situational pass rusher, a good one but we could have a slight drop of in production for a hell of a lot cheaper.

I want reed back but Duno how we can afford it. I'm hoping he retires if we can't afford him.

McClain only saves about 1mil if he's cut so I don't think that's worthwhile, mike oher could be extended reducing his cap number which is over five due to hitting escalators.

I'd like a longterm deal for graham as well. We really need to get proactive and sign players before the run out of contract.
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35 days before we talk about this stuff..

Enjoy the SUPERBOWL WIN
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IMO Everybody is sleeping on how important Kruger is. One of the reasons we got this is Kruger, He was ready to step in for JJ. To soon to know about Upshall. What the FO has to decide is if they want to make a run for back to back. If yes, then they can back load and restructure to sign what they want. If not, then Kurger McKinnie Williams and Boldin are all gone.
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Not going to happen. He wants too much money and he earned his upcoming pay check. The Ravens have too much money invested in Suggs and just drafted Upshaw for the other side. With the money going to Flacco, he is the odd man out. While I wish he remained a Raven, I just do not see it happening. He earned his money and I wont begrudge him for taking it elsewhere. On that note, Thank you Paul for what you did this year to win this city a championship.

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359962526' post='1343919']
BAL needs to retain Kruger, at the very least. He's one of the anchors of BAL's defense.
[/quote]
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Exactely. Its less of a matter of who the Ravens are going to cut. Its more of a matter who the Ravens can afford to outbid in free agency. As a fan, I wish they all would come back. But as a realist, I know that is impossible.

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359968760' post='1344049']
None of those players are under contract so none can be cut.
[/quote]
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Just dont see how you can cut a key figure in the offense. When you invest 15 to 20 million a year in a QB, you are expecting the offense to be the reason for winning. While it may be difficult for Ravens Fans, the reality is that the defense is going to have to decline for the offense to get better.

[quote name='Raven Hammer' timestamp='1359978649' post='1344134']
IMO Everybody is sleeping on how important Kruger is. One of the reasons we got this is Kruger, He was ready to step in for JJ. To soon to know about Upshall. What the FO has to decide is if they want to make a run for back to back. If yes, then they can back load and restructure to sign what they want. If not, then Kurger McKinnie Williams and Boldin are all gone.
[/quote]
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I think Ellerbe is the primary Defensive free agent that must be brought back. The others defensive FA already have replacements on the roster.

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1359970593' post='1344064']
Pitta will be tendered. There is enough cap to keep Pitta and Flacco. Most of the people you named though are FAs anyway. I say redo Boldin and Leach. Birk probably retires giving more cap space. Ellerbe needs to be brought back to me. I would restructure Suggs contract, but don't see it happening. Would also like to keep Kruger cause I've always thought he would be good, but he has earned himself a nice payday. This will be an interesting off season as far as personnel moves.
[/quote]
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[quote name='ArmyRavensFan' timestamp='1359983233' post='1344185']
Just dont see how you can cut a key figure in the offense. When you invest 15 to 20 million a year in a QB, you are expecting the offense to be the reason for winning. While it may be difficult for Ravens Fans, the reality is that the defense is going to have to decline for the offense to get better.
[/quote]
Not saying that they should Just saying that the money for Joe has to come from somewhere. What I want to see is to try amd make a run at back to back. However if they do there,s a price to pay. ala Pittsburg
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359968760' post='1344049']
None of those players are under contract so none can be cut.
[/quote]
You beat me to it. Well, sort of anyway. The Ravens will most likely tender all RFAs & ErFas. Now, as for the rest...

This list makes no sense. Most of these players are unrestricted free agents. That means they can sign anywhere. In case that is confusing, they have no contract. To be cut you have to have a contract.

Boldin, JJ, Williams, Birk, McClain, Leach are guys we could cut. Ngata & Suggs could be restructured. Birk, Boldin, Williams are all guys who could retire. We might even see Pollard restructured or Yanda, maybe even Webb--I doubt it, though.
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The thing with our FO office is that if there was ever a team to spend a lot on a QB and not have a bunch of high paid support pieces it is us. Almost every player you named Ozzie can replace in the draft.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359991085' post='1344405']
Let's wait a few days bro!
[/quote]

I'm with you.

But I just gotta say, Cary is walking the line.

[img]http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/3/19/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31162-1359938782-0.gif[/img]
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1359991524' post='1344415']
I'm with you.

But I just gotta say, Cary is walking the line.


[/quote]

I hate saying this the day after the biggest game of his life but I hope we don't resign him! He's runs his mouth way too much, he's always in the center of fights, and he's always causing trouble.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359991710' post='1344429']
I hate saying this the day after the biggest game of his life but I hope we don't resign him! He's runs his mouth way too much, he's always in the center of fights, and he's always causing trouble.
[/quote]
Williams is a penalty flag waiting to happen. A time bomb. He reminds me of Talib & Cortland Finnegan. He's got a real attitude and it's not in a good way. He's gotten arrogant & really gets on my nerves with his mouth. I like him as a player. He's a good CB. With that said, I won't be sad to see him leave. He's really changed since last year.
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1359967201' post='1344019']
Our defense ran out of juice in the second half. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are not the huge difference makers anymore (Ed's pick was more on Kap then anyone). Our whole defense basically fell apart, when Ngata got injured. Suggs looked average as well, being outplayed by Kruger.
Most of our talent lies suddenly on our offense. Joe, Torrey, Boldin, Pitta (Seriously take his name off the potential cuts! That ridiculous!) or our OLine (can't believe I just typed it). Pierce and Rice (a fumble again?) had average to mixed performances though.
It's hard to predict, what the FO will need to do in the off-season, but I would assume some minor tweaks to the OL and some major drafting on defense.
I don't know, if we should resign Reed.
[/quote]

The defense fell apart once Ngata went down, because protections could slide over not worrying about doubling Ngata.

I will never say Kruger outplayed Suggs because its impossible Kruger is barely average versus the Run, and although he really stepped up as a pass rusher the second half of the year and playoffs that all coincides with Suggs return and Kruger becoming a strictly a pass rusher opposite of Suggs. So Kruger benefits from Suggs receiving so much attention, Kruger should occasionally win the one on ones he gets.

Suggs spent a lot of time yesterday in back side containment making sure that the play fakes to RBs or option for Kap didn't bounce outside to which ever side Suggs was on. Suggs can't just speed rush straight up field every play he has other defensive responsibilities.

Upshaw also had a solid game setting the edge, but once Ngata went out they gashed the middle then began to bounce outside on cutbacks.
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[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1359962526' post='1343919']
BAL needs to retain Kruger, at the very least. He's one of the anchors of BAL's defense.
[/quote]
Theres no way. Adam Schefter reported we are already over the cap. So if we wanted to franchise Flacco @ $15M we would have to clear out 18M or so depending on how far we are over the cap limit BEFORE we could even sign him. We might lose Boldin, we might lose Ngata or Suggs, and its going to be hard to retain Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, and those others we have. Its gonna be a rough offseason.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1359995928' post='1344593']
Theres no way. Adam Schefter reported we are already over the cap. So if we wanted to franchise Flacco @ $15M we would have to clear out 18M or so depending on how far we are over the cap limit BEFORE we could even sign him. We might lose Boldin, we might lose Ngata or Suggs, and its going to be hard to retain Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, and those others we have. Its gonna be a rough offseason.
[/quote]
I really question Schefter's report. Regardless, you're right. We need to restructure/cut/retire players to be able to sign these FAs.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1359996009' post='1344598']
I really question Schefter's report. Regardless, you're right. We need to restructure/cut/retire players to be able to sign these FAs.
[/quote]
I always plan for the worse so in this case even if we are 1 dollar over the cap limit that means we have to free up 20 million and 1 dollar before thinking about signing Flacco. I doubt Flacco will get a long term deal, he will likely get the franchise tag.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1359996271' post='1344611']

I always plan for the worse so in this case even if we are 1 dollar over the cap limit that means we have to free up 20 million and 1 dollar before thinking about signing Flacco. I doubt Flacco will get a long term deal, he will likely get the franchise tag.
[/quote]
Really? I disagree. I think Flacco's deal gets done. I think he could get the tag, but I don't think he plays out the tag but that's a possibility.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1359999040' post='1344700']
Really? I disagree. I think Flacco's deal gets done. I think he could get the tag, but I don't think he plays out the tag but that's a possibility.
[/quote]
I mean Im going off the Schefter reports that we are over the cap ( though I hope we are'nt). If thats the case we would have to free up a ton of money in order to sign Flacco. We could sign him, but I have his projected base salary at $18M (thats what Peyton made last year). That would mean we would have to gut a lot of people before even signing him, or just sign him and have to clear up about $20M in debt. If the cap is @$110M like we all hope it is then that would put us only $7M over the cap upon signing Flacco's long term which is much better to work with.
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1359991524' post='1344415']
I'm with you.

But I just gotta say, Cary is walking the line.

[img]http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/3/19/anigif_enhanced-buzz-31162-1359938782-0.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Surprised he didn't get ejected for that!
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1360000910' post='1344778']

I mean Im going off the Schefter reports that we are over the cap ( though I hope we are'nt). If thats the case we would have to free up a ton of money in order to sign Flacco. We could sign him, but I have his projected base salary at $18M (thats what Peyton made last year). That would mean we would have to gut a lot of people before even signing him, or just sign him and have to clear up about $20M in debt. If the cap is @$110M like we all hope it is then that would put us only $7M over the cap upon signing Flacco's long term which is much better to work with.
[/quote]he's wrong.
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