The Bigger Priority: Kruger or Reed

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359866720' post='1339249']
A strong point, no doubt. But, would you rather give a long term contract to a 27 year old pass rusher with a little upside or a 35 year old safety who is declining?

Kruger is a better business decision. 9 sacks? Yes please!
[/quote]
Well in a perfect world you keep the 27 year old pass rusher. But I think Kruger is going to get more on the open market because of this. What I'm trying to convey is that Kruger will get more money, despite being a 2 down LB. In that case I'm keeping Reed, a HOF 3 down FS who is still one of the best in coverage. All I know is we are going to be in some serious cap predicaments next year and we need to fully and properly invest in the right players. Complete 3 down players. You don't pay for past performances but with guys like Ray and Ed you make exceptions, you pay a little more to keep those guys so they retire Ravens. There's a reason they took Upshaw in the 2nd round in this years draft. If they thought Kruger was going to be around for the next 5 years, they wouldn't have taken him.

Reed will be cheaper, plays more snaps and will be the veteran leader on the team next year.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1359867694' post='1339288']
Well in a perfect world you keep the 27 year old pass rusher. But I think Kruger is going to get more on the open market because of this. What I'm trying to convey is that Kruger will get more money, despite being a 2 down LB. In that case I'm keeping Reed, a HOF 3 down FS who is still one of the best in coverage. All I know is we are going to be in some serious cap predicaments next year and we need to fully and properly invest in the right players. Complete 3 down players. You don't pay for past performances but with guys like Ray and Ed you make exceptions, you pay a little more to keep those guys so they retire Ravens. There's a reason they took Upshaw in the 2nd round in this years draft. If they thought Kruger was going to be around for the next 5 years, they wouldn't have taken him.

Reed will be cheaper, plays more snaps and will be the veteran leader on the team next year.
[/quote]

Upshaw hasn't proven enough to me to warrant letting Kruger go. He provides very little in the pass rush, and I'm not comfortable losing such a strong pass rusher without having a known commodity to replace him.

I realize that Kruger will likely be gone, but I think he should be the third highest FA priorty behind Flacco and Ellerbe. Can never have too many pass rushers. I've been saying for a while that Atlanta or Minnesota will overpay for him. Frustrating, man!

[Ravenslifer]

Sadly I think after his post-season performance, Kruger is about to seriously cash in, and it won't be with us.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359867998' post='1339301']
Upshaw hasn't proven enough to me to warrant letting Kruger go. He provides very little in the pass rush, and I'm not comfortable losing such a strong pass rusher without having a known commodity to replace him.

I realize that Kruger will likely be gone, but I think he should be the third highest FA priorty behind Flacco and Ellerbe. Can never have too many pass rushers. I've been saying for a while that Atlanta or Minnesota will overpay for him. Frustrating, man!
[/quote]
He hasn't proven enough to warrant letting Kruger go, but what 2nd string player does warrant it really? Upshaw was taken because Kruger can't set the edge. Hell we saw it tonight in the Super Bowl, they trusted Upshaw, a rookie, over Kruger a 4 year veteran who was a 3 down starter this year.
To be honest we don't have a choice, Upshaw will start next year and we need to pray that Suggs is 100% next year or that Upshaw rediscovers his wrecking ball pass rush mentality he had at Alabama because as it is right now we'll only have Suggs to pass rush on the edge.

We simply can't resign Kruger at upwards of 7+mil a year to come in on the nickel package 25 times a game.

[ghost1986]

Just wish it wasnt a business. I want em both. Who else is gonna do the symphony conductor celebration after a sack? But I don't wanna think bad thoughts. I'm still in happy disbelief.

[flaccopoe]

Kruger because of the age differential and the price he'll expect to be paid.

[Robaganoosh83]

how is this even a question? Reed all day you DO NOT under any circumstance let a guy let Reed ever play for another team.

[Purple_ICE 81]

Kruger isnt worth 8-10 million a year so I would rather see Reed get signed/franchised. I feel like a Flacco deal is imminent or else he would get the FT

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1359956453' post='1343666']
Sadly I think after his post-season performance, Kruger is about to seriously cash in, and it won't be with us.
[/quote]I hope a team rolls up the Brinks truck so we're not tempted to even slightly overpay for him. I don't think he'll do much once he doesn't have a player like Suggs on the other side of the line...

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1359960096' post='1343829']
He hasn't proven enough to warrant letting Kruger go, but what 2nd string player does warrant it really? Upshaw was taken because Kruger can't set the edge. Hell we saw it tonight in the Super Bowl, they trusted Upshaw, a rookie, over Kruger a 4 year veteran who was a 3 down starter this year.
To be honest we don't have a choice, Upshaw will start next year and [b]we need to pray that Suggs is 100% next year[/b] or that Upshaw rediscovers his wrecking ball pass rush mentality he had at Alabama because as it is right now we'll only have Suggs to pass rush on the edge.

We simply can't resign Kruger at upwards of 7+mil a year to come in on the nickel package 25 times a game.
[/quote]It appeared to me that Suggs got stronger and stronger as he played more and more. And that was with both a sore Achilles AND a torn triceps. He'll be back with a vengeance next year.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1359983685' post='1344192']
I hope a team rolls up the Brinks truck so we're not tempted to even slightly overpay for him. I don't think he'll do much once he doesn't have a player like Suggs on the other side of the line...
[/quote]

Whatever he does or doesn't do, I happen to think Courtney Upshaw is a more complete player and could fill in adequately for Kruger - Kruger IMO is the better pure pass rusher, but Upshaw is much more well-rounded even at this point of his career. However if Kruger does go, I hope he in the least nets us a nice comp pick in 2014.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1359983871' post='1344201']
Whatever he does or doesn't do, I happen to think Courtney Upshaw is a more complete player and could fill in adequately for Kruger - Kruger IMO is the better pure pass rusher, but Upshaw is much more well-rounded even at this point of his career. However if Kruger does go, I hope he in the least nets us a nice comp pick in 2014.
[/quote]I agree. Upshaw has the potential to be molded into Suggs 2.0 and has much more upside than Kruger. Kruger will sign a huge deal and will disappear into mediocrity like so many other ex Raven defenders.

[PolishRifle]

Kruger didn't play well that without Suggs on the field and Reed has trouble tackling players. It seems whenever Ed has to make contact with a receiver he is coming down with a new injury. That said, if it is an either or decision (I think it can end up neither), I'd take the future HoFer, who can come up with a gamebreaking play or two once in a while by himself.

Boldin = PItta > Reed > Kruger

I'd cut both Reed and Kruger, if it means extending Boldin and retaining Dennis.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1359984665' post='1344230']
Kruger didn't play well that without Suggs on the field and Reed has trouble tackling players. It seems whenever Ed has to make contact with a receiver he is coming down with a new injury. That said, if it is an either or decision (I think it can end up neither), I'd take the future HoFer, who can come up with a gamebreaking play or two once in a while by himself.
[/quote]ED was one of only two players to start every single game this season. Criticize him all you want for the injuries but he fights through them and delivers for his team. I don't take anything away from him for the injury. He sprained his MCL taking down the toughest TE in the game and then came back out to get a pick and disrupt Kaepernick on multiple plays. I'd take ED over Kruger in a heartbeat.

[Bazooka Joe]

Both will be back.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1359985791' post='1344253']
Both will be back.
[/quote]you also said boldin won't be cut and I'm assuming you think Joes resigned.

You live in a fantasy if you think all three are signed and boldin kept. There's a cap uno

[The Raven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1359960096' post='1343829']
He hasn't proven enough to warrant letting Kruger go, but what 2nd string player does warrant it really? Upshaw was taken because Kruger can't set the edge. Hell we saw it tonight in the Super Bowl, they trusted Upshaw, a rookie, over Kruger a 4 year veteran who was a 3 down starter this year.
To be honest we don't have a choice, Upshaw will start next year and we need to pray that Suggs is 100% next year or that Upshaw rediscovers his wrecking ball pass rush mentality he had at Alabama because as it is right now we'll only have Suggs to pass rush on the edge.

We simply can't resign Kruger at upwards of 7+mil a year to come in on the nickel package 25 times a game.
[/quote]

I have to agree with you. I think I'm just doing a poor job at communicating. I don't want to spend that kind of money of Kruger, and he will end up somewhere else. At the same time though, we need him on third down.

I think Upshaw will improve next year, but who knows how much? I hope he drops some weight, and gets quicker. With more experience, he'll become a better pass rusher. He never had many opportunities to really get after the passer. One thing I love about Upshaw's pass rushing is that he doesn't rely on a speed rush like so many guys do. Upshaw uses strength, leverage, tenacity, and technique to beat tackles. He'll get there soon enough. I hope.

[GrimCoconut]

This is how I see it. We're losing Lewis' experience & leadership. We can lessen the loss by retaining Reed. Between Kruger & Reed who has more long-term potential? Of course Kruger--he's young. The problem is, Kruger IS YOUNG! He'll be expensive and we already don't have a lot. Between Paul & Ed, Ed's deal will be cheaper.

I also think Upshaw played REALLY well in his championship game. If we keep Monachino, I think Upshaw will reach his potential and may be another Suggs--key word is may. I think Upshaw is the starter and I think we draft a situational pass rusher and go with Hamilton, McAdoo, a rookie & a cheap vet who is cut.

[jtsmoothSocalBmore@heart25]

Most likely both will be gone. Two huge money guys, Reed; First Ballot HOF. Always will be loved here, But Big Joe wants Big Money and we have tiny cap room. Our D is going to take a even bigger hit this off-season fellas.

[HoldingCall]

There are a number of considerations to be looked at before the FO can determine who stays and who goes. Though the team is limited by money they will also need to consider the spirit of the locker room as well as game-day field generals and the of them need on the field. As witnessed this year, team chemistry/spirit has much to do with maintaining stability through adversity. With that understanding we can expect to be happily surprised as well as disappointed by some the the decisions that will be made in the coming months.

Kruger Stays!

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359751446' post='1337871']
Neither. Ellerbe was the single most important player on defense this season.
[/quote]

That is probably correct .

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359990943' post='1344399']
I have to agree with you. I think I'm just doing a poor job at communicating. I don't want to spend that kind of money of Kruger, and he will end up somewhere else. At the same time though, we need him on third down.

I think Upshaw will improve next year, but who knows how much? I hope he drops some weight, and gets quicker. With more experience, he'll become a better pass rusher. He never had many opportunities to really get after the passer. One thing I love about Upshaw's pass rushing is that he doesn't rely on a speed rush like so many guys do. Upshaw uses strength, leverage, tenacity, and technique to beat tackles. He'll get there soon enough. I hope.
[/quote]
Ya I got you. We're on the same page. Obviously in a perfect world you always take the young and upcoming proven talent over the aging veteran talent who has lost a few steps. Our situation is very complex now that we can't just do the no brainer move. Ozzie and DeCosta have to think abstractly this offseason and weigh everything to the minute detail.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='Robaganoosh83' timestamp='1359961446' post='1343878']
how is this even a question? Reed all day you DO NOT under any circumstance let a guy let Reed ever play for another team.
[/quote]

You got to at it in the long term. Kruger has many years ahead of him, barring a serious injury. Reed will have to retire soon due to Father Time. Kruger thus makes more sense, economically and strategically.

[marylandmike12]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1359734764' post='1337513']
The only one we're probably going to keep is ellerbe unfortunately.
[/quote]
no way ray and ed gone will leave cap space

[Ravenseconbeast]

Both unfortunately. We need both of them and bank a stud safety(Elam or Vaccaro) @ #32 pick.

Ed Reed got a ring with us, which was my final wish for him. Reed has achieved everything w/ us, and I love him, but it might be time to move on..

[jdynamite]

To be honest I personally think keeping Ellerbe is more of a priority than Kruger.

People have talked bad about Ed Reed most of the season on these boards, he did miss plenty of tackles during the season but oh yeah he was playing through plenty of pain and injuries too. The way he protected the back end of the defense for much of the playoffs basically forcing QBs to take the check downs for short yardage can not be under-valued.

Problem is Ed Reed wanted an extension for 2 straight years and has felt underpaid for the caliber player he is simply because Safeties aren't making top $ like CBs or DEs.

If its affordable if take Reed over Kruger.

[ravensfan2430]

[sub]Ellerbe[/sub]

[gabefergy]

It probably depends on a lot of factors, but if money was equal then Kruger is more important. However, I think Ed is probably cheaper so retaining him is more likely. I'm pretty sure Ellerbe is the #1 priority aside from Flacco.