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RobFuseRaven

The Bigger Priority: Kruger or Reed

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I keep seeing people saying that they think we will keep Reed. If that's the case, I really don't see us keeping both Kruger AND Reed. I don't even see how we can even sign Kruger with Reed gone. Personally I'd rather have Kruger for the future. He has been a fantastic addition to our pass rush. Reed being gone would be a big hole in secondary also. You don't magically get players like Ed.
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Neither, both will be gone next season. Both are asking for huge contracts that the Ravens can't afford.
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Reed is a larger priority. Maybe not for his actual skills anymore, however his leadership and intelligence will be especially huge for our team next year without Ray. Krugs hasnt really done anything up until this year and will get much more money elsewhere. I think we will keep both Reed and Ellerbe. Let kruger go.
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I agree that it's harder to replace someone like Reed, but how much longer do you think he'll play? It would seem that longevity would be a factor if it comes down to one or the other. Although, if we could keep Reed, we could probably raise a rookie and get him playing at Kruger-level before Ed retired...

Hmmm. Glad I'm not the one having to make that call.
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[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1359734769' post='1337515']
Neither, both will be gone next season. Both are asking for huge contracts that the Ravens can't afford.
[/quote]

I was also thinking neither. I really want them to keep Kruger though. Both being gone would be a huge whole in my purple heart. :(
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Neither. Locking down Joe to a contract to at least give us a chance at either Kruger or Reed.
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[quote name='RobFuseRaven' timestamp='1359735945' post='1337552']
I was also thinking neither. I really want them to keep Kruger though. Both being gone would be a huge whole in my purple heart. :(
[/quote]

Yes Kruger is a big must if they can keep him but again it's all about the benjamins.
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Kruger wants big money and Ed already has one foot put the door. I'd be surprised if either turns down more money so they can return.
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I honestly think Kruger's success is a result of Suggs' return to the field. Kruger was a non-factor until Suggs returned in the Houston game. After that game, Kruger BLEW UP. And I believe a large reason for that boost in production was because Sizzle was demanding the double team. Kruger is a quality player but he isn't a premier pass rusher like the stats would imply. He is a product of the system he's playing in and he definitely benefits off of the other talent in that front 7.

If Paul follows the blockbuster contract to another team they'll be sorely disappointed in his drop in production without a player of Suggs caliber demanding all of the attention on the other side of the line.
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Reed we have upshaw if we cant sign kruger. All pro FS vs promising OLB? All pro. i think we can fit reed in somewhere but its going to come down to how the FO places the money in Flacco's contract i read the cap goes up a few million in 2014 maybe fit some wiggle room in 2013 higher pay in 2014.. who knows up to Oz.
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If I had to choose one, from a general manager's standpoint, Id go with Kruger. Reed would probably be around another 2-3 years at best. Kruger we could lock up to a long term contract, and he'd be an impact pass rusher for years to come.

I can't see how we'd manage to keep them around though.
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Reed. While Reed's speed has declined, his IQ & instincts are sharper than before. He is best in his zone and not gambling. I also think contrary to others that Reed will be cheaper than Kruger. His leadership is also a very underrated aspect of his game. I think we will need his leadership with the loss of #52.

Kruger's becoming a top-notch pass rusher. He can play DE & OLB. That's versatile. He is OK in coverage and is also OK at setting the edge. Teams will think they can coach him up and will offer him a bigger deal and he takes it. His pass rush is too good to pass up, and he can play in a 2-point, 3-point, or 4-point stance. He's good.

I think we will keep Ellerbe, Reed & Joe. Might let some RFAs go and re-sign to veteran minimum deals.
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People need to accept the fact that neither is going to be here next season. Reed is washed up and wants too much money, and Kruger isn't going to be able to turn down the large contracts some other teams can offer. Flacco is the priority, him and Ellerbe might be it.
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[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1359734769' post='1337515']
Neither, both will be gone next season. Both are asking for huge contracts that the Ravens can't afford.
[/quote]

Hey, this guy might be a partial troll (you know since you are an Indy fan. Too) but I have to agree with this. They could both be gone next season. I do not know that Kruger is asking for a big contract, but the way he has played lately he certainly could expect one. Reed, who knows. The guy is an enigma.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1359737882' post='1337608']
People need to accept the fact that neither is going to be here next season. Reed is washed up and wants too much money, and Kruger isn't going to be able to turn down the large contracts some other teams can offer. Flacco is the priority, him and Ellerbe might be it.
[/quote]


Man, I hate to use the word washed up. Thats a little brutal. Although he may want a lot of money who knows with this guy. He might just want a big office. It is hard to understand his motivations. Kruger must know that he can get a fat contract and will likely hold out to see what exactly it is. We will not be able to match it. So unless he is willing to take a huge hometown discount, I expect (as painful as it will be) we lose him. Reed may be back, he may go elsewhere, he may retire, who knows?


I also agree with Bmorelegacy, Kruger has excelled because of the team around him. I really do not think he will have the same level of success, but he will have the big contract.
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[quote name='RobFuseRaven' timestamp='1359734669' post='1337507']
I keep seeing people saying that they think we will keep Reed. If that's the case, I really don't see us keeping both Kruger AND Reed. I don't even see how we can even sign Kruger with Reed gone. Personally I'd rather have Kruger for the future. He has been a fantastic addition to our pass rush. Reed being gone would be a big hole in secondary also. You don't magically get players like Ed.
[/quote]
Reed. As much as I love Kruger, we have Upshaw to replace him. We don't really have much depth or many players to replace Reed in the secondary. Reed is also one of those players, who changes the game by just being on the field. People have to account for him. Kruger has developed well, but he will be overpaid by someone else (same argument for Reed), and won't have the same impact that Reed has just with his presence.

FWIW I don't think either will be here this season as belichick will pay Reed whatever he wants to be there and Ozzie being a good GM wont screw his team over and match it just to keep him.
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Reed is going to be too expensive for what he is now - a locker room presence. It's hard to accept, but his play is declining quickly and he will get more money elsewhere from a team who still sees him as the Ed Reed from years ago.

I doubt we have the cap space for Kruger and I think he is also going to be paid more than he's worth by another team. I think we draft a safety early to replace Reed and Upshaw takes Kruger's spot.
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1359738188' post='1337615']



Man, I hate to use the word washed up. Thats a little brutal. Although he may want a lot of money who knows with this guy. He might just want a big office. It is hard to understand his motivations. Kruger must know that he can get a fat contract and will likely hold out to see what exactly it is. We will not be able to match it. So unless he is willing to take a huge hometown discount, I expect (as painful as it will be) we lose him. Reed may be back, he may go elsewhere, he may retire, who knows?


I also agree with Bmorelegacy, Kruger has excelled because of the team around him. I really do not think he will have the same level of success, but he will have the big contract.
[/quote]
I think one of the best teams for Kruger to go to would be the Vikings. Having Allen & Kruger across from each other would be a strong tandem. Add in the fact that they run a 4-3 and I think it's a good fit for him.
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1359737889' post='1337609']
Hey, this guy might be a partial troll (you know since you are an Indy fan. Too) but I have to agree with this. They could both be gone next season.[b] I do not know that Kruger is asking for a big contract, but the way he has played lately he certainly could expect one.[/b] Reed, who knows. The guy is an enigma.
[/quote]

LaCanfora reported he's expecting $8 million earlier in January. A desperate team could very well offer him more once FA starts.
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Reed and Ellerbe will be in purple next year but Kruger will definitely be somewhere else. We're going to have to re-structure Anquan and possibly Haloti to make it work but Ed Reed will retire as a Raven.
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[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1359736368' post='1337563']
I honestly think Kruger's success is a result of Suggs' return to the field. Kruger was a non-factor until Suggs returned in the Houston game. After that game, Kruger BLEW UP. And I believe a large reason for that boost in production was because Sizzle was demanding the double team. Kruger is a quality player but he isn't a premier pass rusher like the stats would imply. He is a product of the system he's playing in and he definitely benefits off of the other talent in that front 7.

If Paul follows the blockbuster contract to another team they'll be sorely disappointed in his drop in production without a player of Suggs caliber demanding all of the attention on the other side of the line.
[/quote]

Don't forget Ngata is getting doubled as well.
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Reed, and Ellerbe. This upcoming draft has some great pass rushers in it. And we also have McAdoo and Hamilton who may become great rushing OLB. Upshaw is a beast against the run and may grow into a everydown OLB. If we lose both Ed and Lewis in the same year we will have lost more than can be replaced with talent, but all around football genuis directly on the field calling the shots.
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Why is there this assumption that Kruger is going to demand huge money? He had a great stretch there, but has been quiet before and since then... I'd like to keep him since he finally has come on, though.
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1359748523' post='1337815']
[b]Why is there this assumption that Kruger is going to demand huge money?[/b] He had a great stretch there, but has been quiet before and since then... I'd like to keep him since he finally has come on, though.
[/quote]

He fired his agents earlier in January and was expected to sign with a major firm.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359751446' post='1337871']
Neither. Ellerbe was the single most important player on defense this season.
[/quote]
[quote name='bMore Heathen' timestamp='1359752722' post='1337883']
Ellerbe is more important than both combined.
[/quote]

Idk if I'd go that far, but I'd agree that behind getting the Joe deal done he'd be my #1 priority as much as it would break my heart to see the other two (especially Ed) in a different uni.
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If I had to choose one and assuming we could even keep either of them I would choose Kruger hands down. I love Reed and he is one of my favorite football players of all time, but he is no where near as effective as a quality pass rusher in the prime of his career just as he is finding his stride. No way am I sacrificing quality, effective young talent for a player who is at the end of his career that you would most likely be overpaying for 1-3 more years.
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1359748523' post='1337815']
Why is there this assumption that Kruger is going to demand huge money? He had a great stretch there, but has been quiet before and since then... I'd like to keep him since he finally has come on, though.
[/quote]

It's not that he's going to demand it, he's going to [i]command[/i] it. He's a young, proven pass rusher in this league and we probably couldn't even afford what we would offer as a lowball. There is a team out there that's buying what he's selling in buckets and (especially with a Super Bowl already checked off his bucket list) if you're him you have to take the big money because you never know when your career is going to be over in the NFL.
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Sadly, Kruger is gone..

I also believe Ed Reed is gone.

We will franchise Flacco and resign Ellerbe, that will be the extent of it IMO.

On a brighter note, Cary Williams will be gone as well!
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1359751446' post='1337871']
Neither. Ellerbe was the single most important player on defense this season.
[/quote]

agree... still would gladly have Ed back as coach-player kind of... he wants to coach and one of the most talented safeties ever to play the game... kruger can be found in the draft... and ellerbe is a must
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If Kruger was a 3 down LB he'd actually have a shot. Considering he needed to be replaced on 1st downs by Upshaw when we're in our base defense tells you all you really need to know.

You don't pay a 2 down LB 8mil a year. You just don't.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1359738427' post='1337624']
I think one of the best teams for Kruger to go to would be the Vikings. Having Allen & Kruger across from each other would be a strong tandem. Add in the fact that they run a 4-3 and I think it's a good fit for him.
[/quote]

Well, they have Robinson as well and he is pretty good.. I don't think they'd sign Kruger. I think Jacksonville is the perfect fit.. 3-4, 4-3 hyrbid defense, he would star in the LEO role IMO.
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[quote name='ClintLB8' timestamp='1359755159' post='1337917']


Well, they have Robinson as well and he is pretty good.. I don't think they'd sign Kruger. I think Jacksonville is the perfect fit.. 3-4, 4-3 hyrbid defense, he would star in the LEO role IMO.
[/quote]
Totally forgot about Robinson. Jacksonville would be an excellent fit for him, you're 100% right. They have cap space, too. I can see JAX, maybe even the Jets if they had cap space, but they have crap space.

The bottom-line is a lot of teams could go for his services. Even the Cowboys could want him if they so wanted. I think a lot more teams will want Kruger than Reed. That's not just due to age but the value of the pass rusher position.
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[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1359738438' post='1337625']
LaCanfora reported he's expecting $8 million earlier in January. A desperate team could very well offer him more once FA starts.
[/quote]

I agree. He could easily get offered more after his performance this season. Particularly after the 2.5 sacks on the K-man.
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PFF has Paul Kruger as the best pass rusher in the league. Saying he gets the highest % of QB hurries per snap out of any OLB. Thats only accounting for pass rush though, run stopping he is average at best.
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In terms of long-term benefit to the team no question it's Kruger - Reed will be 35 this year, and IMO he's got maybe 2-3 years of football left before he hangs it up. Kruger on the other hand will just be 27 this month, and has easily 5-6 years left of being in top form, and keep in mind Suggs will be 31 in October and has been in the league only one year less than Reed. In terms of overall impact for what he does, it's Reed, because nobody in this league changes the way an offense approaches us than Ed Reed. To me it all comes down to which deal ends up being more palatable - do we want to possibly overpay for Kruger when this is really his first breakout year and we've already drafted a few guys who could conceivably take his spot, or do we want to take a risk on Ed Reed, a guy who has had a lot of injury concerns and has openly talked about retirement for several years now. This isn't taking into consideration that Biscotti all but guaranteed Flacco would be here long-term and that will take up quite a bit of cap, nor does it take into consideration that Ellerbe is also an important free agent. In my opinion, if Kruger will stay for the right price, I'd prioritize his years left in the league over what Ed's will be, but if Kruger doesn't come down off of what he's asking for then he'll probably walk.
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[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1359753296' post='1337894']
It's not that he's going to demand it, he's going to [i]command[/i] it. He's a young, proven pass rusher in this league and we probably couldn't even afford what we would offer as a lowball. There is a team out there that's buying what he's selling in buckets and (especially with a Super Bowl already checked off his bucket list) if you're him you have to take the big money because you never know when your career is going to be over in the NFL.
[/quote]

Proven? How? His stretch at the end of the regular season was the only time in his career he has done anything noteworthy.
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1359827372' post='1338549']
Proven? How? His stretch at the end of the regular season was the only time in his career he has done anything noteworthy.
[/quote]

...because he's coming off his rookie contract and his stretch at the end of the year and into these playoffs is the only thing scouts are going to be looking at. If he was a 30 yr old guy going onto his 3rd contract I'd agree with you but, much like Flacco, Kruger is playing his best ball at the perfect time for maximum leverage in the contract debate. Scouts are going to drool over his potential as an anchor on a crappy DL (which we know will probably go the same way as AD in New England) and pay handsomely for it.
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Kruger only had 1 good season. I think he can come pretty cheap tbh.

Ellerbe & Kruger & Flacco back on Ravens jersey imo
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neither. simply we dont have the cap to do it. kruger wants to get paid, reed declining production is hurting him to get $$.
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Ellerbe first, and then Reed. Kruger wants $8 million a year. No thanks. Probably going to the Colts (and Pagano) or somewhere that has money to spare.
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Without Kruger, who goes opposite Suggs? We haven't seen anything from McAdoo, and Upshaw is great against the run, but has no passrush. That means hiring yet another aging player and hoping he holds out long enough for us to draft a better pass rusher.

Without Reed, we have several players who can step up and play free safety. They certainly won't have Reed's experience, but they won't be a detriment to the position.
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[quote name='NaveSenrag' timestamp='1359844078' post='1338720']
Without Reed, we have several players who can step up and play free safety. They certainly won't have Reed's experience, but they won't be a detriment to the position.
[/quote]

Uh who exactly are these players? Don't say Webb. We have safeties on this roster but there is nothing to base on that they could do well or wouldn't be a liability as a full time starter.
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[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1359833403' post='1338610']
[b]Kruger only had 1 good season. I think he can come pretty cheap tbh. [/b]

Ellerbe & Kruger & Flacco back on Ravens jersey imo
[/quote]

You'd be surprised at the premium pass rushers demand. We might not value him at such a high price, but some team desperate for a pass rush will. Kruger will not be coming cheap.
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