83 replies to this topic

[Sizzlebshu]

• Kansas City Chiefs – Geno Smith
  
• Jacksonville Jaguars – Star Louteli
  
• Oakland Raiders – Damonte Moore
  
• Philadelphia Eagles – Luke Jockel
  
• Detroit Lions – Dee Millner
  
• Cleveland Browns – Bjoern Werner
  
• Arizona Cardinals – Eric Fischer
  
• Buffalo Bills – Mike Glennon
  
• New York Jets – Jarvis Jones
  
• Tennessee Titans – Chance Warmack
  
• San Diego Chargers – Lane Johnson
  
• Miami Dolphins – Cordarelle Patterson
  
• Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Desmond Trufant
  
• Carolina Panthers – Jonathan Hankins
  
• New Orleans Saints – Dion Jordan
  
• St. Louis Rams – Kenny Vacarro
  
• Pittsburgh Steelers – Ezekiel Ansah
  
• Dallas Cowboys – Shariff Floyd
  
• New York Giants – Alec Ogletree
  
• Chicago Bears – DJ Fluker
  
• Cincinnati Bengals – Matt Elam
  
• St. Louis Rams – Jonathan Cooper
  
• Minnesota Vikings – Keenan Allen
  
• Indianapolis Colts – Jesse Williams
  
• Seattle Seahawks – Zach Ertz
  
• Greenbay Packers – Barkevious Mingo
  
• Houston Texans – Kevin Minter
  
• Denver Broncos –Sheldon Richardson
  
• New England Patriots – Xavier Rhodes
  
• Atlanta Falcons – Sam Montgomery
  
• San Francisco 49ers – Kawaan Short
  
• Baltimore Ravens – Deandre Hopkins

Sorry for the formatting if its hard to read. Just ask about any pick. This is more of a work in progress than a definite as I still dont know if I necessarily like certain picks and im on the fence about some of them.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[redlobster]

I personally would rather see Arthur Brown over Hopkins even if it is a little early to draft brown

[GrimCoconut]

I disagree with 1, 4, 8, 20.

I didn't quote so I can't see the picks, but I don't see KC taking Smith over Joeckel. Hence, I disagree with 4. I also disagree with 8 because I think they would take him in the 2nd. I don't think 20 is a 1st-round pick at all.

I also disagree with 32. I'd go with Arthur Brown over Hopkins, but you know that. Two skill positions, one is more impactful. Brown can cover these TEs & maybe WRs. Hopkins is good and has good routes, but he is dependent on an OL. By your own logic, I don't see the point in taking a WR when we need an OT. So....yeah.

[Sizzlebshu]

I disagree with 1, 4, 8, 20.

I didn't quote so I can't see the picks, but I don't see KC taking Smith over Joeckel. Hence, I disagree with 4. I also disagree with 8 because I think they would take him in the 2nd. I don't think 20 is a 1st-round pick at all.

I also disagree with 32. I'd go with Arthur Brown over Hopkins, but you know that. Two skill positions, one is more impactful. Brown can cover these TEs & maybe WRs. Hopkins is good and has good routes, but he is dependent on an OL. By your own logic, I don't see the point in taking a WR when we need an OT. So....yeah.

Well here is my justification on 1 and consequently 4. The 2013 mandatory cap spending along with the new regime change makes Geno Smith a more enticing option than drafting Jockel and overpaying for a lesser talent in FA (the class for KC's needs isn't that great this year). I've explained to Gabe a few times why I think that drafting Jockel is a lateral move for the chiefs that just ages them and forces them to make bad decisions with their cap. While I dont think any QB is worth going first overall, KC is desperate to end the nightmare that is Cassel/Quinn and theres always a QB whose draft stock ends up ballooning up to the top (Cam, Bradtford etc...). It just makes more sense for them to pay Albert and use the cap to extend their guys than to sign Jockel, let Albert walk, and then overpay a guy like Greg Jennings (just using him as an example because its a need I can think of off the top of my head).

As for 8, that is purely off of Buddy Nix saying he is going to find a franchise QB. He is known for being straight forward with his draft plans. He could take one in the second. He could trade back in the first for one, but as we saw with Tannehill and the draft 2 years ago, teams will reach for qb's.

As for #20, this is one of the picks I didnt like, but I looked at the other players available for their needs other than maybe Cooper couldnt find one that helps them more than this. They desperately need help at the book ends and if Fluker doesnt end up being an LT, he might able to play RT. Either way Webb and Camri arent gonna cut it. I thought about Barrett Jones either here or to the Rams, but I havent monitored his physicals enough to figure out how he'd do on an nfl level. The versatility would be attractive to either team if he could play guard on an nfl level well.

As for 32, WR is less dependent on the o-line compared to ilb being dependent on the d-line. I mean if you want an example, Larry Fitz got 1400 yards 2 years ago with the leagues worst o line. Granted its Fitz, but still. Hopkins has a very underrated skillset and should we cut Boldin is a guy who could come in and possibly offer a similar skill set.

We do need an OT, but the chances of us getting one are slim in the draft. Drafting a WR would let us cut Boldin and open up 6-7.5 mil depending on whatever cap hit he has, and let us possibly sign a FA OT. Im not saying we will go after Jake Long, or anything like that, just that it would gives the option. I personally hope Boldin agrees to a restructure but I dont see that happening.

I know there was a thread for it before, but can someone tell me what our cap situation is like prior to any moves being made. I think we have like 20 mil free and if we franchise tag Flacco that leaves us with about 5.4 mil which means cutting Boldin gives us 12.4 free.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 05:56 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Well here is my justification on 1 and consequently 4. The 2013 mandatory cap spending along with the new regime change makes Geno Smith a more enticing option than drafting Jockel and overpaying for a lesser talent in FA (the class for KC's needs isn't that great this year). I've explained to Gabe a few times why I think that drafting Jockel is a lateral move for the chiefs that just ages them and forces them to make bad decisions with their cap. While I dont think any QB is worth going first overall, KC is desperate to end the nightmare that is Cassel/Quinn and theres always a QB whose draft stock ends up ballooning up to the top (Cam, Bradtford etc...). It just makes more sense for them to pay Albert and use the cap to extend their guys than to sign Jockel, let Albert walk, and then overpay a guy like Greg Jennings (just using him as an example because its a need I can think of off the top of my head).

As for 8, that is purely off of Buddy Nix saying he is going to find a franchise QB. He is known for being straight forward with his draft plans. He could take one in the second. He could trade back in the first for one, but as we saw with Tannehill and the draft 2 years ago, teams will reach for qb's.

As for #20, this is one of the picks I didnt like, but I looked at the other players available for their needs other than maybe Cooper couldnt find one that helps them more than this. They desperately need help at the book ends and if Fluker doesnt end up being an LT, he might able to play RT. Either way Webb and Camri arent gonna cut it.

As for 32, WR is less dependent on the o-line compared to ilb being dependent on the d-line. I mean if you want an example, Larry Fitz got 1400 yards 2 years ago with the leagues worst o line. Granted its Fitz, but still

We do need an OT, but the chances of us getting one are slim in the draft. Drafting a WR would let us cut Boldin and open up 6-7.5 mil depending on whatever cap hit he has, and let us possibly sign a FA OT. Im not saying we will go after Jake Long, or anything like that, just that it would gives the option. I personally hope Boldin agrees to a restructure but I dont see that happening.

I know there was a thread for it before, but can someone tell me what our cap situation is like prior to any moves being made. I think we have like 20 mil free and if we franchise tag Flacco that leaves us with about 5.4 mil which means cutting Boldin gives us 12.4 free.

Some of what you say makes sense, and then some of it doesn't.

1. I know you're probably not projecting trades, but I see KC trading down. Perhaps they don't need a LT. They could get one in Fisher or Johnson, so I will roll with you here. It makes sense to trade back and get more picks, probably for the year after. They need help at QB, true; however, I don't think Reid will get desperate. A HC is tied to a QB taken early. I think it's smarter to get a guy in FA, trade, or stay with the status quo.

2. I can see the Bills trading up to get Smith. That's honestly what I think happens. Mortgage the farm for someone now. I don't see them taking Glennon, though.

3. I know the Bears. The Bears need help across the entire OL. They are weak at almost every position. I can see them trading up to get a guy, whether that's a LT, G, or even a center. They need help bad. I can see Jones from Alabam going to the Bears, a player who supposedly can play any position on the OL.

4. It's something like that. You're also wrong. For the most part, you need some kind of offensive line. Unless the WR is the elite of elite, then what good will they be? All WRs need time to get open. Your example is Larry Fitzgerald. Lol, you already created my rebuttal.

I think best value is ILB, but I don't want to make this thread about the best pick for the Ravens again. We've beat that to ad nauseum.

[Sizzlebshu]

Some of what you say makes sense, and then some of it doesn't.

1. I know you're probably not projecting trades, but I see KC trading down. Perhaps they don't need a LT. They could get one in Fisher or Johnson, so I will roll with you here. It makes sense to trade back and get more picks, probably for the year after. They need help at QB, true; however, I don't think Reid will get desperate. A HC is tied to a QB taken early. I think it's smarter to get a guy in FA, trade, or stay with the status quo.

2. I can see the Bills trading up to get Smith. That's honestly what I think happens. Mortgage the farm for someone now. I don't see them taking Glennon, though.

3. I know the Bears. The Bears need help across the entire OL. They are weak at almost every position. I can see them trading up to get a guy, whether that's a LT, G, or even a center. They need help bad. I can see Jones from Alabam going to the Bears, a player who supposedly can play any position on the OL.

4. It's something like that. You're also wrong. For the most part, you need some kind of offensive line. Unless the WR is the elite of elite, then what good will they be? All WRs need time to get open. Your example is Larry Fitzgerald. Lol, you already created my rebuttal.

I think best value is ILB, but I don't want to make this thread about the best pick for the Ravens again. We've beat that to ad nauseum.

I wont project trades. I have two reasons against this.

1. You can make a convincing argument for any trade. For example, Jets send Sanchez + the 9th overall pick to Seattle for the 26th pick and Matt Flynn and late round selection. Good deal all around. Seahawks get a high pick and 8.5 off the books in a year (given sanchez's contract structure) which helps them extend guys like Wilson, Browner, Sherman soon. Jets get Flynn, a late first rounder and a late round selection.

2. At QB, where you're suggesting a trade occurs, I dont see any prospect worth trading up for. It actually would cost less to reach on a guy than it would for them to mortgage a draft and trade up

I could give the reverse of the argument for ilb. Showing how when linebackers lost their main d line guy, their effectiveness was severely crippled (Us when we lost Suggs, Aldon Smith, and Willis when Justin got hurt) but I agree the horse is dead no sense in beating it and like I said I'm not factoring trades in. Id love to trade out if at all possible but if we have to take a guy I like Hopkins. He shows an elite skill set that you dont see out of a lot of guys coming out of college. He reminds me of Russel Wilson in that if he were a few inches taller he may be a top 10 pick. My only concern I hope will be assuaged at the combine when he runs a 4.4 or shows some other freakish physical ability.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Dubs]

not shabby - wont hit on the ones you already discussed but I am not sure I see Ansah fitting in with the Steelers..where do you see him being lined up and how will they use him

[ClintLB8]

No way we go receiver in the 1st round. Receiver is deep in this draft and with Torrey, Boldin, Jones, Pitta, and Rice as passing targets already, receiver is not a need and IMO Hopkins would not be even close to the BPA with guys left on the board like Arthur Brown, John Jenkins, Barrett Jones, or even Manti Te'o for that matter. Either way, Ravens don't touch Hopkins in the 1st round in this scenario. I also do not believe that some of the guys you have going other places will fall into place. Just my opinion.

[ClintLB8]

not shabby - wont hit on the ones you already discussed but I am not sure I see Ansah fitting in with the Steelers..where do you see him being lined up and how will they use him

This is one of the main ones I saw, granted.. I do believe I came across a mock that had him going to the Steelers as well but that could have been Bleacher Report. Don't remember where it was.. but I don't see him fitting their scheme. I say they go ILB or NT.

[Sizzlebshu]

No way we go receiver in the 1st round. Receiver is deep in this draft and with Torrey, Boldin, Jones, Pitta, and Rice as passing targets already, receiver is not a need and IMO Hopkins would not be even close to the BPA with guys left on the board like Arthur Brown, John Jenkins, Barrett Jones, or even Manti Te'o for that matter. Either way, Ravens don't touch Hopkins in the 1st round in this scenario. I also do not believe that some of the guys you have going other places will fall into place. Just my opinion.

Boldin may very well be a cap casualty at 7.5 mil. Pitta isn't a wide receiver and will need to be resigned. Jacoby may also be gone as well for cap reasons at 4 mil for being a #3 receiver and returner. Receiver is more a need than you realize. I also have Hopkins as a better prospect that Jones, Jenkins and Brown. I like him more than Teo also after watching him get killed in the Alabama game. The fact that his value as a leader is shot due to his fake girlfriend scandal only makes him an even weaker prospect in my eyes.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[Sizzlebshu]

not shabby - wont hit on the ones you already discussed but I am not sure I see Ansah fitting in with the Steelers..where do you see him being lined up and how will they use him

Initially or eventually? Initially it depends on what they do with Harrison, who in all likelihood may end up a cap casualty due to his age, injuries and contract. I think he could develop into a hybrid 3-4 OLB able to play in coverage or if he has to stick his hand in the dirt and rush the QB. He has the size and natural athleticism to do both and the Steelers, as much as I hate to admit it, do a very good job at developing talent.

They could go for a NT, but I think the value Ziggy provides them here is too good to pass up.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Initially or eventually? Initially it depends on what they do with Harrison, who in all likelihood may end up a cap casualty due to his age, injuries and contract. I think he could develop into a hybrid 3-4 OLB able to play in coverage or if he has to stick his hand in the dirt and rush the QB. He has the size and natural athleticism to do both and the Steelers, as much as I hate to admit it, do a very good job at developing talent.

They could go for a NT, but I think the value Ziggy provides them here is too good to pass up.

I actually agree with you in regards to Ansah going to the Steelers. He needs work, but we've seen Bruce Irvin go high. Ansah could be an elite pass rusher in the beginning, and then develop into a better player at coverage & run support. He's actually not that bad at either having watched more of him. He's a really good player, one I undervalued initially.

I think he might be a Terrell Suggs-type of player, who can play DE & OLB. The Steelers would get a very good prospect. They need help at OLB/DE, but I can see them take a DT if a good one is there, since they do really need help up front. It really depends on the prospect. I can see them take Hankins, but you have him going to the Panthers.

[Sizzlebshu]

I actually agree with you in regards to Ansah going to the Steelers. He needs work, but we've seen Bruce Irvin go high. Ansah could be an elite pass rusher in the beginning, and then develop into a better player at coverage & run support. He's actually not that bad at either having watched more of him. He's a really good player, one I undervalued initially.

I think he might be a Terrell Suggs-type of player, who can play DE & OLB. The Steelers would get a very good prospect. They need help at OLB/DE, but I can see them take a DT if a good one is there, since they do really need help up front. It really depends on the prospect. I can see them take Hankins, but you have him going to the Panthers.

Actually wanted to make this comparison but I held off since Sizzle was a much more refined pass rusher coming out. They way I see it though, taking Ansah kills two birds with one stone. There are other good NT/DT left, but Ansah has too much value at that point to pass up.

Unlike Irvin though, I dont see him being a reach here. The senior bowl really helped his stock. It wouldnt surprise me if he went in the top 10 because teams will be on him being a JPP/Terrell Suggs type player depending on the scheme.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Actually wanted to make this comparison but I held off since Sizzle was a much more refined pass rusher coming out. They way I see it though, taking Ansah kills two birds with one stone. There are other good NT/DT left, but Ansah has too much value at that point to pass up.

Unlike Irvin though, I dont see him being a reach here. The senior bowl really helped his stock. It wouldnt surprise me if he went in the top 10 because teams will be on him being a JPP/Terrell Suggs type player depending on the scheme.

Imagine having him on this team, having Monachino coaching him up as a player. My God. Two Terrell Suggs?! One on both end?! How could offenses stop that?

[Sizzlebshu]

Imagine having him on this team, having Monachino coaching him up as a player. My God. Two Terrell Suggs?! One on both end?! How could offenses stop that?

Thats why I was hoping he'd tank the senior bowl. On a brighter note, Jarvis Jones stock is dropping so perhaps there is hope. Both are top 10 talents. Ziggy will drop because he is raw. Jarvis honestly is the best prospect in this draft from a talent stand point imo but will drop due to medical and stupid reasons regarding his work ethic in the weight room (has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard)

On another note though, I wouldnt mind if Mingo fell to us. A lot of freaky athletic talent to work with there, but I dont see being as effective of a pass rusher on the next level. If he does drop to us and we have a shot at him, I hope I am wrong. I won't lie tho, Im just not sold on him as a prospect. Lamaar Woodley might be a good comparison.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Thats why I was hoping he'd tank the senior bowl. On a brighter note, Jarvis Jones stock is dropping so perhaps there is hope. Both are top 10 talents. Ziggy will drop because he is raw. Jarvis honestly is the best prospect in this draft from a talent stand point imo but will drop due to medical and stupid reasons regarding his work ethic in the weight room (has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard)

On another note though, I wouldnt mind if Mingo fell to us. A lot of freaky athletic talent to work with there, but I dont see being as effective of a pass rusher on the next level. If he does drop to us and we have a shot at him, I hope I am wrong. I won't lie tho, Im just not sold on him as a prospect.

I'm seriously concerned with JJ's medical issues. It's ended many careers of very good athletes. It's essentially a ticking time bomb. We took a risk on Kindle, albeit his was less of a risk due to the unforeseen nature of him falling down the stairs. With Jarvis Jones, we might be able to get him in the 2nd in all honesty. That's how serious this is. I'm not sure if you are really respecting the severity of this condition. You may be. I don't know. Either way, I might take a flier on JJ at 62, even though that's a big risk in my opinion. You may only get 5 years out of him, or you could get more. Again, it's a ticking time bomb. His career will end prematurely. The only question is when.

[Sizzlebshu]

I'm seriously concerned with JJ's medical issues. It's ended many careers of very good athletes. It's essentially a ticking time bomb. We took a risk on Kindle, albeit his was less of a risk due to the unforeseen nature of him falling down the stairs. With Jarvis Jones, we might be able to get him in the 2nd in all honesty. That's how serious this is. I'm not sure if you are really respecting the severity of this condition. You may be. I don't know. Either way, I might take a flier on JJ at 62, even though that's a big risk in my opinion. You may only get 5 years out of him, or you could get more. Again, it's a ticking time bomb. His career will end prematurely. The only question is when.

Kindle wasn't a risk just unfortunate

I am but I view it in similar fashion to Andrew Bynum or Brandon Roy and the degenerative knee condition. However, many years they give you whether its 5 or 10 is better than not having them.

Let's assume we somehow get Jarvis. I take him give him a 5 year deal. What do I really lose there? He is going to be underpaid as a rookie. If he gives 3-5 years of solid production before ending his career than Ive had 3-5 drafts to add more talent to my team in which case the loss of Jones will be softened. I mean yea it would suck to lose him, but while we have him we'd get phenomenal production on D and when he is gone we will have had a few drafts to fill out the team a bit more. Let's say the loss of Jones is big, in the grander scheme of themes we would be due for a down few years on D anyway if we whiff in the drafts since Suggs and Ngata would be around 34-ish

To me unless we draft him and he goes out in the first 2 years (possible), what we get in return for our investment in that time will exceed the value we invested.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[GrimCoconut]

Kindle wasn't a risk just unfortunate

I am but I view it in similar fashion to Andrew Bynum or Brandon Roy and the degenerative knee condition. However, many years they give you whether its 5 or 10 is better than not having them.

Let's assume we somehow get Jarvis. I take him give him a 5 year deal. What do I really lose there? He is going to be underpaid as a rookie. If he gives 3-5 years of solid production before ending his career than Ive had 3-5 drafts to add more talent to my team in which case the loss of Jones will be softened. I mean yea it would suck to lose him, but while we have him we'd get phenomenal production on D and when he is gone we will have had a few drafts to fill out the team a bit more. Let's say the loss of Jones is big, in the grander scheme of themes we would be due for a down few years on D anyway if we whiff in the drafts since Suggs and Ngata would be around 34-ish

To me unless we draft him and he goes out in the first 2 years (possible), what we get in return for our investment in that time will exceed the value we invested.

I agree--at 2nd round value. Not at 1st. I'm not talking about trading back, either.

[ClintLB8]

Boldin may very well be a cap casualty at 7.5 mil. Pitta isn't a wide receiver and will need to be resigned. Jacoby may also be gone as well for cap reasons at 4 mil for being a #3 receiver and returner. Receiver is more a need than you realize. I also have Hopkins as a better prospect that Jones, Jenkins and Brown. I like him more than Teo also after watching him get killed in the Alabama game. The fact that his value as a leader is shot due to his fake girlfriend scandal only makes him an even weaker prospect in my eyes.

Jacoby Jones most certainly isn't going anywhere.. and I think Boldin restructures. ILB.. is just as big of a need as WR. IMO.. Needs go like this..

DL
ILB
LT
WR

People on this board may argue OL being above ILB which is fine.. but most aren't on the WR being a top need train so taking a guy in the first that has a 2nd round grade that is not a HUGE position of need is pointless. It also doesn't fit Ozzie IMO.

[Sizzlebshu]

Jacoby Jones most certainly isn't going anywhere.. and I think Boldin restructures. ILB.. is just as big of a need as WR. IMO.. Needs go like this..

DL
ILB
LT
WR

People on this board may argue OL being above ILB which is fine.. but most aren't on the WR being a top need train so taking a guy in the first that has a 2nd round grade that is not a HUGE position of need is pointless. It also doesn't fit Ozzie IMO.

Several things.
First I said Id prefer to trade out but I wont account for trades meaning I have to take someone. So read before you make an accusation.

I wont project trades. I have two reasons against this.

1. You can make a convincing argument for any trade. For example, Jets send Sanchez + the 9th overall pick to Seattle for the 26th pick and Matt Flynn and late round selection. Good deal all around. Seahawks get a high pick and 8.5 off the books in a year (given sanchez's contract structure) which helps them extend guys like Wilson, Browner, Sherman soon. Jets get Flynn, a late first rounder and a late round selection.

2. At QB, where you're suggesting a trade occurs, I dont see any prospect worth trading up for. It actually would cost less to reach on a guy than it would for them to mortgage a draft and trade up

I could give the reverse of the argument for ilb. Showing how when linebackers lost their main d line guy, their effectiveness was severely crippled (Us when we lost Suggs, Aldon Smith, and Willis when Justin got hurt) but I agree the horse is dead no sense in beating it and like I said I'm not factoring trades in. Id love to trade out if at all possible but if we have to take a guy I like Hopkins. He shows an elite skill set that you dont see out of a lot of guys coming out of college. He reminds me of Russel Wilson in that if he were a few inches taller he may be a top 10 pick. My only concern I hope will be assuaged at the combine when he runs a 4.4 or shows some other freakish physical ability.

2nd your priorities are severely out of whack if LT isn't the top priority. I don't know if you remember that Michael Oher on the blindside was actually horrible and was a major reason why Flacco and our offense were stalling. and by that I mean not having a an nfl quality LT.

3rd Arthur Brown has a second round grade so by your logic Ozzie isn't drafting him. Don't think Hopkins has a first round grade, go do your research again because I can show you him being mocked to Minn, Seattle, St. Louis etc... oh and btw us.

4th ILB isn't an amazingly huge need for us as we still have two starters even with Ray retiring. You may not like McClain but he has proven serviceable meaning that we can get by with just adding depth.

5th So you're okay with starting Jacoby and Torrey as our starting receivers should we need to lose Boldin due to cap constrictions? Have fun with that.

6th as for NT I'll use your logic again, do you see a first round talent NT at 32? I dont see anyone I wouldnt rather trade into the second for.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 30 January 2013 - 11:42 PM.