94 replies to this topic

[ClintLB8]

Just read the article on NFL.com that talked about how the Ravens were built.. Just a few things

"Lewis and Reed are both destined to be first-ballot Hall of Famers. It's hard to believe the Ravens were able to land both of these players so late in the first round (Lewis at No. 26 overall, Reed at 24) of their respective drafts. Both players slid in the draft primarily because of their lack of size. During draft meetings, the Ravens don't get hung up on size, choosing to focus more on playing speed, toughness and instincts. Lewis and Reed both scored off the charts in all three areas."

If this doesn't describe Arthur Brown then I don't know what will.. He makes perfect sense and I think if he is there he will be looked at as the BPA for sure, especially in the eyes of a front office that doesn't take size into consideration because if AB was bigger, he would almost surely be a top 16 talent.

Then..

"I joined the Ravens personnel department immediately following the 2003 NFL Draft. I can remember Suggs causing some commotion in the building when he showed up a little bit too heavy during his first training camp. Fears about him were quickly erased, however, following his first one-on-one pass-rush repetition; everyone in the personnel department immediately realized that Ozzie had hit another home run. If not for a poor time in the 40-yard dash, Suggs likely would have been long gone before the Ravens had the opportunity to select him with the 10th overall pick. Once again, the Ravens benefited from the philosophy of taking the best football player, not the best "tester."

This describes Te'o. Once considered a top 10 selection who is looked at as someone who won't blow people away at the combine and due to other reasons like off the field stuff may slide (kind of like Jimmy Smith). A low 40 time pushed Suggs down and the Ravens went strictly with the best player, not the best tester. If Arthur Brown is gone by our pick and Te'o is still available.. then we will go with him.

Arthur Brown is the clear cut number 1 option for the Ravens IMO but if he goes to the Giants or Bengals then I say Manti Te'o is the choice. Either one would more than likely (not guaranteed) be the best available player and luckily one of those would fill a big need.

Thoughts?

[hawkprey]

My thought is that every undersized linebacker is supposed to be "the next Ray Lewis". I don't know about these two guys, but there's a lot more that goes into being great than being undersized.

And just because Ray is retiring doesn't mean we'll be talking an ILB in the first round, like everyone thinks. You can't just look at the crop this year because it's Ray's last and say "Okay, which one of these is the next him?"

[ClintLB8]

My thought is that every undersized linebacker is supposed to be "the next Ray Lewis". I don't know about these two guys, but there's a lot more that goes into being great than being undersized.

And just because Ray is retiring doesn't mean we'll be talking an ILB in the first round, like everyone thinks. You can't just look at the crop this year because it's Ray's last and say "Okay, which one of these is the next him?"

Not even trying to say he is the "next Ray Lewis". I'm saying he has excellent speed, toughness, and instincts that Ozzie and company look for in players. I'm simply saying his lack of size will not hold him back from Ozzie selecting him.. that's what I was trying to prove, it's not that I think he is the next Ray Lewis. I am not saying the Ravens are going ILB in the first necessarily, but I do think if either Arthur Brown or Manti Te'o fall to us then they will more than likely be BPA in the eyes of our front office, it just so happens that it also fills a big need. So, your whole argument was a little off as far as my opinions are concerned.

[stm85]

My thought is that every undersized linebacker is supposed to be "the next Ray Lewis". I don't know about these two guys, but there's a lot more that goes into being great than being undersized.

And just because Ray is retiring doesn't mean we'll be talking an ILB in the first round, like everyone thinks. You can't just look at the crop this year because it's Ray's last and say "Okay, which one of these is the next him?"

The whole "next Ray Lewis" thing is a cop out. There is no next Ray Lewis. There will never be another Ray Lewis, he is the greatest MLB of all time. All you can do is try to grab a great player who fits what we are trying to do on defense. Brown would be a great pick in that regard. I think he compliments Ellerbe really well. Brown can be the guy who drops back into coverage and quickly diagnoses plays while Ellerbe can be the downhill, blitzing specialist. Brown would make our defense a lot more dynamic and I would love to have him.

[arnie_uk]

That also describes Matt Elam to a tee. You cold also say it describes numerous other people. Non story here, too may people fit that mould.

[ClintLB8]

That also describes Matt Elam to a tee. You cold also say it describes numerous other people. Non story here, too may people fit that mould.

I am saying a lack of size or a lack of speed doesn't stop Ozzie so people's argument (mine before) of wanting Arthur Brown but him being too small is not the case in the eyes of our front office. You are correct that Elam fits that as well..

[arnie_uk]

I am saying a lack of size or a lack of speed doesn't stop Ozzie so people's argument (mine before) of wanting Arthur Brown but him being too small is not the case in the eyes of our front office. You are correct that Elam fits that as well..

well the majority of people here already new that. But knowing that doesn't mean as you say, Arthur brown will be the pick.

[gabefergy]

I completely agree about Brown. If he was 6'2, 245 then he's the number 1 LB on everyone's draft board. The fact is he displays all the characteristics you want in an ILB. He's the #1 ILB on my board and it makes perfect sense for him to land here.

[arnie_uk]

I completely agree about Brown. If he was 6'2, 245 then he's the number 1 LB on everyone's draft board. The fact is he displays all the characteristics you want in an ILB. He's the #1 ILB on my board and it makes perfect sense for him to land here.

hes number one on mine as well, but I have Elam ahead of him on my overall board. Elam at 1, brown at 2 of realistic targets.

But I still think a number of teams will take brown of their board cause of his size

[gabefergy]

hes number one on mine as well, but I have Elam ahead of him on my overall board. Elam at 1, brown at 2 of realistic targets.

But I still think a number of teams will take brown of their board cause of his size

I'm not as high on Elam. I think he fits more of the SS mold than FS, at least at this juncture. If we need a rookie to step in and start right away Elam would be a concern in coverage.

[GrimCoconut]

Gabe, you know how I feel about Elam. I love him as a prospect. With that said, and I don't like to make this kind of statement because people can look really stupid if it's not true but I think we'll need to trade up to get Elam. I don't see him making it beyond the 1st. He has a lot of top intangibles that I can't see anyone passing on. The Cowboys would be a great fit for him. I think they take him, in all honesty. Another good fit for Elam is the Patriots. I would bet money he goes to one of those two teams.

I like Brown a ton. He's my #1 ILB on my board, having overtaken Minter of whom I still love. He is a perfect fit for our defense.

[ClintLB8]

I just made this post because Arthur Brown and Manti Te'o are both prospects I am very high on (Brown being the clear cut #1 for me) but I was worried the Ravens wouldn't take him because he is only 6-1 228 and some might worry about him fitting in our 3-4 defense. Seeing that article confirmed to me they will take BPA regardless of size or other stuff surrounding them such as Te'o. I'd be happy with either one.. but I would be thrilled with Brown!

[Sizzlebshu]

Just read the article on NFL.com that talked about how the Ravens were built.. Just a few things

"Lewis and Reed are both destined to be first-ballot Hall of Famers. It's hard to believe the Ravens were able to land both of these players so late in the first round (Lewis at No. 26 overall, Reed at 24) of their respective drafts. Both players slid in the draft primarily because of their lack of size. During draft meetings, the Ravens don't get hung up on size, choosing to focus more on playing speed, toughness and instincts. Lewis and Reed both scored off the charts in all three areas."

If this doesn't describe Arthur Brown then I don't know what will.. He makes perfect sense and I think if he is there he will be looked at as the BPA for sure, especially in the eyes of a front office that doesn't take size into consideration because if AB was bigger, he would almost surely be a top 16 talent.

Then..

"I joined the Ravens personnel department immediately following the 2003 NFL Draft. I can remember Suggs causing some commotion in the building when he showed up a little bit too heavy during his first training camp. Fears about him were quickly erased, however, following his first one-on-one pass-rush repetition; everyone in the personnel department immediately realized that Ozzie had hit another home run. If not for a poor time in the 40-yard dash, Suggs likely would have been long gone before the Ravens had the opportunity to select him with the 10th overall pick. Once again, the Ravens benefited from the philosophy of taking the best football player, not the best "tester."

This describes Te'o. Once considered a top 10 selection who is looked at as someone who won't blow people away at the combine and due to other reasons like off the field stuff may slide (kind of like Jimmy Smith). A low 40 time pushed Suggs down and the Ravens went strictly with the best player, not the best tester. If Arthur Brown is gone by our pick and Te'o is still available.. then we will go with him.

Arthur Brown is the clear cut number 1 option for the Ravens IMO but if he goes to the Giants or Bengals then I say Manti Te'o is the choice. Either one would more than likely (not guaranteed) be the best available player and luckily one of those would fill a big need.

Thoughts?

This could describe a lot of players in the draft besides Brown and Teo.

[gabefergy]

My issue with Te'o has nothing to do with his size or ability to play LB. I've moved into the I really don't want him on my team because he's kind of an idiot territory. I don't believe he would be respected in the locker room.

[Sizzlebshu]

My issue with Te'o has nothing to do with his size or ability to play LB. I've moved into the I really don't want him on my team because he's kind of an idiot territory. I don't believe he would be respected in the locker room.

Agreed. My issue with Brown is that he just isnt good value in the first without a trade down.

Think of it this way. Russel Wilson is a first round talent. The Seahawks saw this obv and took him. The reason they didnt grab him earlier was because they didnt have to. It wouldnt have been good value because they could get two solid players and then grab him later. Hindsight is 20/20 but still thats my deal with Brown. He may be a first round talent, but right now he is slated as a second round prospect. Jumping on him early is just a loss of value.

[arnie_uk]

Agreed. My issue with Brown is that he just isnt good value in the first without a trade down.

Think of it this way. Russel Wilson is a first round talent. The Seahawks saw this obv and took him. The reason they didnt grab him earlier was because they didnt have to. It wouldnt have been good value because they could get two solid players and then grab him later. Hindsight is 20/20 but still thats my deal with Brown. He may be a first round talent, but right now he is slated as a second round prospect. Jumping on him early is just a loss of value.

this. I think teams will de value him a round because of his size. I could see him going mid to late second.

[gabefergy]

Agreed. My issue with Brown is that he just isnt good value in the first without a trade down.

Think of it this way. Russel Wilson is a first round talent. The Seahawks saw this obv and took him. The reason they didnt grab him earlier was because they didnt have to. It wouldnt have been good value because they could get two solid players and then grab him later. Hindsight is 20/20 but still thats my deal with Brown. He may be a first round talent, but right now he is slated as a second round prospect. Jumping on him early is just a loss of value.

Who slated him as a 2nd round prospect though? That is just what some pundits think. I know of a lot of people that have a first round grade on him. Either way, it's a gamble if you don't take him especially if you the scouts give him a grade worthy of a first round pick. There are quite a few teams in the second round that need help at LB.

[Sizzlebshu]

Who slated him as a 2nd round prospect though? That is just what some pundits think. I know of a lot of people that have a first round grade on him. Either way, it's a gamble if you don't take him especially if you the scouts give him a grade worthy of a first round pick. There are quite a few teams in the second round that need help at LB.

Im just talking general consensus. For all we know he may be the top player on everyone's big board and go #1 overall. I mean come on is that really what you're gonna pick apart here. Every player in the draft is a gamable. Who would guessed Bruce Irvin would go in the top 15 last year before Ingram and Coples? Its called a calculated risk. If it doesnt work out, well the odds were in your favor and it just didnt work out how the odds predicted it should.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 29 January 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[RiseNConquer1983]

My issue with Te'o has nothing to do with his size or ability to play LB. I've moved into the I really don't want him on my team because he's kind of an idiot territory. I don't believe he would be respected in the locker room.

Yeah, seriously. How can someone be duped for THREE YEARS? This seems to have nothing to do with performance on the field.....but, I would question his decision making ability for ANYTHING if he really was that badly duped for that long!

[evass#ravensnation]

I say trade out of the 1st if Elam isnt there and just get a few extra picks and just grab Arthur Brown !