Ray Rice or Benard Pierce?

[usmccharles]

Both our backs have their pros and cons. I think we will split it pretty well unless one gets on fire early. but i like rice a bit better because hes a great option in the passing game, one of the best in the NFL at making something from nothing. They both bring great things to the table and as long as one getting yards then we are ok....Id like to see a lineup with BP behind Joe and have Rice in the slot, i think that would completely throw off the 9ers D...

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1359308625' post='1332157']
It's his running style, completely upright. I'm sure Wilbert will work with him to tweak his posture to better absorb the hits.
[/quote]
Yeah, he dealt with injuries every year of college. He makes magic happen though. he could add some muscle too. He's a little lean for an NFL player.

[Nge2grads]

We are so fortunate to have both of these gifted players, and I hope they both see plenty of opportunities to help our team win next Sunday.

[BloodRaven]

We shouldn't be afraid to switch to Pierce early is Rice can't get going.

[Ravens_FanMan]

Both are excellent and provide different skill sets. I say both!

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1359260906' post='1331803']
How soon people seem to forget what Ray has accomplished to help get us here. I think a lot of it has to do with the playcalls each one is given as well as the fact that a LOT of Rice's calls have been coming on those inexplicable 1st down/up the middles they've run over and over and over where everyone in the stadium, watching on TV and a few people in the parking lot know what's coming as soon as they line up.

I'm hoping BP continues to break through in this game, but I think a lot of what he has gotten is due to how the defenses play against him as opposed to when Rice is in. Hopefully I am wrong and he is just that good at running, but I think Jimbaugh is going to take more notice of BP than these other teams have.
[/quote]

Once again I'm not saying let's give BP more touches than rice. Lol That would be ludicrous.

The statement that I'm making is that I would love to see Pierce get the same amount of CARRIES if not more than Rice. Rice is going to have to 2-3 screen plays and his 2-3 dump off Pierce won't. So I'm not saying "let's forget about Rice" I hope that Caldwell uses BP more.

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1359310941' post='1332195']
We shouldn't be afraid to switch to Pierce early is Rice can't get going.
[/quote]

Thank you! And I hope that Caldwell has that same mindset, b/c Rice has struggled to find room in the run game against stingy run defenses.

[Yatagarasu]

You guys complaining about having an [b]All-Pro[/b] RB and an upcoming rookie RB who is built for the zone system?

You guys make me laugh! We're going to keep them for another three years. They both compliment each other well that we don't have to overuse Ray Rice to the ground. Pierce is just touching the surface of his potential in his rookie year and should be in for a bigger role in the upcoming years. I think we should be happy that we have the ability to have two 1000 yard rushers. You guys want to know how the 1972 undefeated Super Bowl winning Miami Dolphins got it done? They had two 1000 yard runners named Larry Csonka and Mercury Morris.

Projection 2013
Ray Rice 250 carries * 4.5 career avg = 1125 yards
Bernard Pierce 190 carries * 4.9 career avg = 931 yards

Those two combines 27.5 carries a game, which add about 5 carries for Leach and Flacco.

This year New England was top 5 in both rush attempts (32.7 Rush/G) and pass attempts (40.1 Pass/G). I believe we have the tools to take our offense to the next level and when you establish the run, it will open up the passing game.

[The Raven]

Pierce matches up better against the 49ers. The 49ers D is physical. Rice is mediocre running the ball against a physical D. Pierce, however, is capable of breaking tackles and playing physically. Rice just isn't physical enough when playing physical defenses.

[H8R]

I like Bernard's style better with our Oline, but we don't know if he's durable like Rice. Ray knows how not to take the big hit. He finds a way to absorb a hit or tip toe out of bounds. Rice is exceptional as a receiver , Pierce hasn't shown that propensity just yet.

I personally need to see more out of Rice. After missing training camp and getting a big deal, he HAS to be tip top next year. I know he was training hard by himself, but it's nothing compared to what he would have been prepared for had he been in camp. He seems to not be as explosive , lacking some of his normal speed. Also, the way he's been talking.. he seems almost down or defeated. Like he's not fighting hard enough. Maybe it's the thought of RL52 not being in the lineup after this season?

[Ravensfan23]

Ray Rice and Bernard Peirce are both perfect for this offense, by offense I mean weapons not system, because wwe don't know just how much Caldwell will tweak things.

However, the reason why both guys are perfect is because they are interchangeable with the office. The Ravens are one of the few teams who are truly balanced in the sense that they can spread you out and attack you with the pass or they can play ground and pound physical football.

Rice is better suited for the spread attack because he's a nightmare for LBs in both run and passing situations. He's a huge weapon as we've seen on checkdowns.

With BP, he's definitely suited for the power running game. He explodes through the line and punishes defenders attempting to stop him. He's also fast and really athletic, so i can't wait to see him fully develop.

I think adding a BP is the best thing that could have happened for both he and Rice. Them rotating will keep both guys fresh and prolong their careers imo. I think the people that say Ray Rice needs to get 25-30+ touches a game will be highly upset next year, because this offense will be a throw to score, run to win type offense. With that approach, Rice probably gets about 15-20 touches a game, because Peirce will be getting a lot of 4th quarter carries to ice the game imo.

[marylandmike12]

All of rices carrys are up the middle. Pierces are all over the place which is much better

[ThePurpleWall]

these threads cant wait till the offseason huh.

[gabefergy]

I'm really curious to see what wrinkles, if any, Juan Castillo will add to our rushing attack.

[Ravens castle]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1359261689' post='1331815']
I think it's been pointed out that Pierce isn't facing the same defense as Rice. When Ray Rice comes off the field the defense will shift towards the pass. Opposing teams prepare in order:

1. Stopping Ray Rice
2. Stopping Flacco
3. Everything else.

Pierce is in that everything else category. Flacco can make you pay so when Rice isn't on the field defenses immediately shift towards stopping the pass. If Pierce was starting I'm sure he wouldn't be as effective (though I'm not taking anything away from the kid.)

So yeah, using Pierce in the run will probably have a better outcome simply because their defense will be expecting pass first when Rice is out. If we start the game giving Pierce more opportunities than Ray I don't think Pierce will be more effective. When he started against the Bengals he wasn't anything too special.
[/quote]

Saying BP hasen't faced the same defenses that RR has is simply not true. While i do agree that there is many more times RR has seen more "run stopping" formations, but in no way has denfenses been in "pass only defense" when BP comes in. BP has even made good yards against 8 man fronts as well has RR.
I believe both help each other very well, and RR is top in the league if not the best at running in open space. BP is great at hitting holes, and he is a great "one cut" back.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1359395495' post='1333242']
I'm really curious to see what wrinkles, if any, Juan Castillo will add to our rushing attack.
[/quote]

Same here. We should start to see shades of Brian Westbrook.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Ravens castle' timestamp='1359401446' post='1333339']
Saying BP hasen't faced the same defenses that RR has is simply not true. While i do agree that there is many more times RR has seen more "run stopping" formations, but in no way has denfenses been in "pass only defense" when BP comes in. BP has even made good yards against 8 man fronts as well has RR.
I believe both help each other very well, and RR is top in the league if not the best at running in open space. BP is great at hitting holes, and he is a great "one cut" back.
[/quote]

I think the biggest distinction between the two comes in terms of opponents' assignments. Where many teams will stack the box against BP the same way they stack up against Rice, Rice is [i]gameplanned[/i] against. That is to say, the defenders are readings keys directly relative to Ray Rice where they are not with Pierce because a) He's not a known commodity and There just isn't as much tape on him.

Many teams straight up 'Spy' Rice, dedicating a linebacker or safety to the specific role of stopping him when he's on the field. Pierce is definitely not getting that kind of attention.

[The Raven]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1359410787' post='1333478']
I think the biggest distinction between the two comes in terms of opponents' assignments. Where many teams will stack the box against BP the same way they stack up against Rice, Rice is [i]gameplanned[/i] against. That is to say, the defenders are readings keys directly relative to Ray Rice where they are not with Pierce because a) He's not a known commodity and There just isn't as much tape on him.

Many teams straight up 'Spy' Rice, dedicating a linebacker or safety to the specific role of stopping him when he's on the field. Pierce is definitely not getting that kind of attention.
[/quote]

Yes. Rice is gameplanned against. Gameplanning has little to no effect on the back's ability to make cuts and break tackles. Two things Pierce is better at.

[CalvinSmoke]

Both of these guys are big time. I don't mind them being different types of players. It's like having Maurice Jones Drew and Adrian Peterson on the same team. AP is going to have better running numbers but MJD will close the gap with his total yardage.

[indianstick]

This is like the third ray rice vs pierce thread

[Free Agent]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359411416' post='1333486']
Yes. Rice is gameplanned against. Gameplanning has little to no effect on the back's ability to make cuts and break tackles. Two things Pierce is better at.
[/quote]

The way Pierce makes those quick cuts, without losing a bit of speed...mmm its sweet.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1359425178' post='1333712']
The way Pierce makes those quick cuts, without losing a bit of speed...mmm its sweet.
[/quote]

He's good at making a chicken sandwich out of chicken s***.

He can make the most of bad blocking. If somebody blitzes or blows through a gap, he makes it work. I love how when someone gets through, or when someone gets in his way, Pierce doesn't hesitate. He runs hard without dancing, and it's beautiful. Pierce is the prototype of the kind of back I'd want if I was a coach.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1359425428' post='1333717']
He's good at making a chicken sandwich out of chicken s***.

He can make the most of bad blocking. If somebody blitzes or blows through a gap, he makes it work. I love how when someone gets through, or when someone gets in his way, Pierce doesn't hesitate. [b]He runs hard without dancing[/b], and it's beautiful. Pierce is the prototype of the kind of back I'd want if I was a coach.
[/quote]

Thats the key right there. Backs like LeSean McCoy or Reggie Bush make great cuts, but they get caught dancing around too often. Pierce just runs vertical and makes quick cuts without losing any speed or ground. He's a special player.

[rlh445]

I'm getting tired of these threads. Without Ray Rice (at this point) Bernard wouldn't be doing what he's doing. I agree he's talented and I agree with Gabe; I can't wait to see what Caldwell and Castillo come up with in the off season for him. That said, Ray's TD against the Pats should quell this, 'Pierce cuts/runs better,' stuff. A straight up runner like Pierce would have been stopped for a loss. Ray makes multiple guys miss and jogs in for what was a very meaningful TD. Pierce looks good, but Rice is da man.

[kieron_of_rome_apart]

If you can find a happy place with using them both then it will be a happy place indeed. Effectiveness changes with the D they're up against. Who knows, you might get a team that starts to get hip to having to focus on planning for Pierce in addition to Rice. The game plan always needs to change. So yeah...not either or. Both while you got em'.

[SideStep77]

Ray RIce is our #1 Pierce is our #2 and RR's backup. However I do like the idea of switiching them up how the coaching staff already does, it provides a completely different running style because Ray Ray is more of a "put a juke move" on defenders rather than Pierce who is a powerful, big running back. I like how they are used now because it has been working for us. Ray just needs to break off a big run like his does to get his Yards per Carry up. That's how Peterson does it. Plus Ray gives us the passing game threat, and I wish we would send him on a streak like the Pats did against the Texans or we did once last year because it would totally catch the defense off guard.

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='SideStep77' timestamp='1359467288' post='1333933']
Ray RIce is our #1 Pierce is our #2 and RR's backup.
[/quote]

I'm going to dispute that a little bit. I think Bobby Rainey (currently on IR) is Rice's backup and Pierce is a "change of pace" back. That's why Rice and Pierce are both used throughout the game.