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TonyTone1192

Ray Rice or Benard Pierce?

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As of late B.P has been running the ball much more effectively than rice. Although I love Ray(and yes I remember the 130 yards against Denver) I believe that Pierce is a better RUNNER than Rice, not overall back, just off of hand offs.

Against the second best run defense in the league(Niners) I think that Pierce(if given the opportunity) could provide more rushing yards than Rice. Hopefully w/ the two weeks leading up to the game that knee will heal enough to where it shouldn't hinder him much on the 3rd.

Do you guys think that Pierce will get more carries than Rice or is my statement far-fetched?
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[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1359259370' post='1331785']
As of late B.P has been running the ball much more effectively than rice. Although I love Ray(and yes I remember the 130 yards against Denver) I believe that Pierce is a better RUNNER than Rice, not overall back, just off of hand offs.

Against the second best run defense in the league(Niners) I think that Pierce(if given the opportunity) could provide more rushing yards than Rice. Hopefully w/ the two weeks leading up to the game that knee will heal enough to where it shouldn't hinder him much on the 3rd.

Do you guys think that Pierce will get more carries than Rice or is my statement far-fetched?
[/quote]
Both?

I think we need to do a 50/50 rotation. Both are proving to be playmakers. Nothing wrong with having two great backs. That's the coming age of the NFL.
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[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1359259370' post='1331785']
As of late B.P has been running the ball much more effectively than rice. Although I love Ray(and yes I remember the 130 yards against Denver) I believe that Pierce is a better RUNNER than Rice, not overall back, just off of hand offs.

Against the second best run defense in the league(Niners) I think that Pierce(if given the opportunity) could provide more rushing yards than Rice. Hopefully w/ the two weeks leading up to the game that knee will heal enough to where it shouldn't hinder him much on the 3rd.

Do you guys think that Pierce will get more carries than Rice or is my statement far-fetched?
[/quote]
I agree with this. Pierce is going to be a top ten RB. I don't think there is any doubt in my mind that he will be.

If we can work on his receiving ability....
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1359259693' post='1331791']
Both?

I think we need to do a 50/50 rotation. Both are proving to be playmakers. Nothing wrong with having two great backs. That's the coming age of the NFL.
[/quote]

I'm not saying we should USE Pierce more than Rice. I believe that if Pierce and Ray both have the same amount of carries then B.P will have more rushing yards than Ray.
Rice is a better receiver than Pierce and a better runner once he's given space. But I believe that Pierce is a better runner (in between the tackles) than Ray.

I just don't want to see Ray carry the ball 18 times for 40 yards and Pierce carry it 10 times for 45 yards.
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[quote name='TonyTone1192' timestamp='1359260224' post='1331800']
I'm not saying we should USE Pierce more than Rice. I believe that if Pierce and Ray both have the same amount of carries then B.P will have more rushing yards than Ray.
Rice is a better receiver than Pierce and a better runner once he's given space. But I believe that Pierce is a better runner (in between the tackles) than Ray.

I just don't want to see Ray carry the ball 18 times for 40 yards and Pierce carry it 10 times for 45 yards.
[/quote]
Ahh, I see. It's possible. I think BP is very effective in our run system. I think that's a big part of it. Rice is good, but he needs space as you said. Pierce is good even when things are tight, like when the defense tries to stack the box. Rice seems to be most effective in the middle but also gets stuffed there because teams just stack the middle. It's rather insane. I like that Pierce seems to be able to use the edges as well.

I'd like to see Rice in the slot on a few sets with BP in the backfield.

I think you have to ride the hot hand, but you have to involve Rice as well. That's what makes Rice great. He is a threat as a receiver. Love our options here.
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How soon people seem to forget what Ray has accomplished to help get us here. I think a lot of it has to do with the playcalls each one is given as well as the fact that a LOT of Rice's calls have been coming on those inexplicable 1st down/up the middles they've run over and over and over where everyone in the stadium, watching on TV and a few people in the parking lot know what's coming as soon as they line up.

I'm hoping BP continues to break through in this game, but I think a lot of what he has gotten is due to how the defenses play against him as opposed to when Rice is in. Hopefully I am wrong and he is just that good at running, but I think Jimbaugh is going to take more notice of BP than these other teams have.
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I think it's been pointed out that Pierce isn't facing the same defense as Rice. When Ray Rice comes off the field the defense will shift towards the pass. Opposing teams prepare in order:

1. Stopping Ray Rice
2. Stopping Flacco
3. Everything else.

Pierce is in that everything else category. Flacco can make you pay so when Rice isn't on the field defenses immediately shift towards stopping the pass. If Pierce was starting I'm sure he wouldn't be as effective (though I'm not taking anything away from the kid.)

So yeah, using Pierce in the run will probably have a better outcome simply because their defense will be expecting pass first when Rice is out. If we start the game giving Pierce more opportunities than Ray I don't think Pierce will be more effective. When he started against the Bengals he wasn't anything too special.
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I agree with you OP. People get way too defensive here.

I love me some RR. You can't deny what he does in the passing game and in the open field.

But BP is just a better pure runner than RR is. Like the guy above me said, glad we have both of them.
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This is a good ? both are very good backs and have the skill to help the team win but at this point does it really matter lets win the game first answers and opinions on this topic can be talked about later. I'm just saying.
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1359261689' post='1331815']
1. Stopping Ray Rice
2. Stopping Flacco
3. Everything else.

Pierce is in that everything else category.
[/quote]

This. I don't think it's a matter of people being defensive. It's just the reality of teams scheming to shut down Ray Rice at almost any cost vs. what they do right now vs. Pierce. I think what you'll see next year, if Pierce continues playing like this, is teams doing a much better job to seal the ends than they do right now and paying much more attention to him. Once Rice leaves the field, the defenses are deeming Flacco and his arm to be the high priority as opposed to when Rice is in there.

I think it's just too soon to say BP is a better runner than Rice when he doesn't face the same scrutiny by opposing D's as Rice does. But if he turns out to be ... crap ... imagine that backfield with Rice and Pierce trading off and Leach to lead the way.
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Rice should get more touches, and Pierce should get a fair share of runs. Especially in the second half.
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I love Pierce, great 1-2 punch. I keep hearing Pierce is a better between the tackles runner while I think the opposite is true. Rice has better patience and vision which allows him to be a very effective runner inside. Pierce has more of a burst and can get the edge faster than Ray. A lot of his big runs have been to the outside.
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I haven't really seen any DE or OLB able to set the edge on BP, he hits the edge and turns before anyone is there usually picking up 4-6yds. I think he will be a beast next season. Yet another Ozzie head scratcher that has proved to be A pleasant surprise! Our 3rd and 4th rounders in the past few seasons are proving to be better than our early picks
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[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1359264842' post='1331872']
I haven't really seen any DE or OLB able to set the edge on BP, he hits the edge and turns before anyone is there usually picking up 4-6yds. I think he will be a beast next season. Yet another Ozzie head scratcher that has proved to be A pleasant surprise! Our 3rd and 4th rounders in the past few seasons are proving to be better than our early picks
[/quote]

When Pierce comes in those guys are thinking pass rush first before setting the edge. While vets don't have this problem, it will appear much more when the backup runningback is in the lineup and not the starter. Luckily teams haven't given Pierce the credit he deserves but I'm sure the 49ers with two weeks to prepare won't turn a blind eye towards Pierce. The extra week will allow them to study Rice and Flacco and the receivers like normal, but they will have that extra time to learn about Pierce and how to stop him.
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I think it's a little unfair to make an evaluation of which is the better runner based on postseason performance, because you have to consider how much more wear Ray Rice has on his body at this point in the season. He's been grinding it out all season long, while Pierce has a relatively fresh set of legs to bring to games right now. This is a great thing for us, because he's a talented back who is capable of burning a defense that underestimates him. They mentioned during the Pats game that part of what makes him so effective taking the ball to the outside is that defenders misjudge his speed and end up tackling through the empty space they thought he would be occupying. He's a lot faster than he was given credit for coming into the league.

On the original topic, I think Rice will get the bulk of the carries against the 49ers because he is the starting back and because you want to feed your star runningback so that he can find a groove carrying the ball. Rice is a guy who will grind through the 2 and 3 yard carries and then break off a 40 yarder on a play going straight through the A gap. However, I wouldn't worry about Pierce getting his share. What's important to remember is that because he's in on fewer plays his YPC average is a little inflated as he feels less need to husband his strength. It's like comparing the ERA of a starting pitcher to a reliever. The starter has to husband his strength. The reliever can go all out every chance.
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1359260163' post='1331799']
It depends on their D.
[/quote]


Exactly. I would hope that we have moved on from any pre planned quotas.

An intelligent combination determined by the in game situation is what we need. I trust Caldwell!
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IMO Both are effective because both have there own strenghts. SF must Game Plan for both and for Flacco and for Torrey and for Boldin and for Pitta. Sounds like alot of GP to me. I think too much . The more options the more complicated the D has to be the more chance of a slip up miss coverage wrong play call or simple confussion. Both will get their touches both will be effective Kdog is right SF D will dictate how much each will play. Tough problem to have.
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Pierce has performed superb but he hasn't proven the ability to be a feature back. Using both at this time will be the most effective weapon.

I'm hoping the Ravens run some kind of play which allows Leach to set the tone early against the S.F. linebackers, just like when he buried Harrison on one of his first regular season plays as a Raven.
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1359292909' post='1331977']
Ah, what a lovely problem to have!
[/quote]


Ha Ha! Who would have thunk it. The Ravens have a well balanced, dangerous offense!

And I don't know what all of the excitement is about. We've used other backs in the same fashion for the past 5 years, the only difference being Pierce should be around for a long time, which obviously is a good thing.
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[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1359262282' post='1331822']
Pierce is the better pure runner. Rice is a playmaker. We need a little of both.
[/quote]
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[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1359306515' post='1332122']
Pierce's big knock is durability. He's gotten injured every year.
[/quote]


It's his running style, completely upright. I'm sure Wilbert will work with him to tweak his posture to better absorb the hits.
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Both our backs have their pros and cons. I think we will split it pretty well unless one gets on fire early. but i like rice a bit better because hes a great option in the passing game, one of the best in the NFL at making something from nothing. They both bring great things to the table and as long as one getting yards then we are ok....Id like to see a lineup with BP behind Joe and have Rice in the slot, i think that would completely throw off the 9ers D...
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