Analysis of the 49ers defense

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1359579805' post='1335769']
Wow, NFL.com is reaching for topics. Is the 2012 49ers D better than the 2000 Ravens D?

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000132412/article/49ers-current-defense-just-doesnt-compare-to-ravens-2000-unit"]Link[/url]

TL:DR - No (7/7)
[/quote]

yeah because Colin Kaepernick

[size=4] [/size]

[admartian]

[quote name='Neal Could Block the SUN!!' timestamp='1359580466' post='1335784']
yeah because Colin Kaepernick


[/quote] Pretty much THIS.

[GrimCoconut]

Wow, this topic has seriously gone astray. Why are you guys arguing over the definition of trolls, who offended who, etc.

This topic is supposed to be about the analysis of the 49ers defense. And since it is, let's get it back on topic and not about what trolling means, how you offended me, etc.

49ers have a good front 3, strong OLBs, excellent ILB, & a weakness at CB with a good safety. That sounds a lot like a suspect secondary to me. I'm aware they have talent in the secondary, but if there is any place to attack that's it. Also, I would use a lot of the TEs in this game despite their excellent ILBs. Teams don't always expect teams to play against their strengths. They expect teams to attack the weakness. You still have to attack the 49ers deep, but we can't abandon any one area or else we become 1D.

Ray Rice screens & dump-offs will be hard here, but if any RB can negate the ILBs from the 49ers it's Baltimore's Ray Rice. I also like Pierce's speed in this game and one-cut hard running. We'll see how Willis stands against FB Leach, who will smash you in the mouth.

[footballfan78]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1359582495' post='1335810']
Wow, this topic has seriously gone astray. Why are you guys arguing over the definition of trolls, who offended who, etc.

This topic is supposed to be about the analysis of the 49ers defense. And since it is, let's get it back on topic and not about what trolling means, how you offended me, etc.

49ers have a good front 3, strong OLBs, excellent ILB, & a weakness at CB with a good safety. That sounds a lot like a suspect secondary to me. I'm aware they have talent in the secondary, but if there is any place to attack that's it. Also, I would use a lot of the TEs in this game despite their excellent ILBs. Teams don't always expect teams to play against their strengths. They expect teams to attack the weakness. You still have to attack the 49ers deep, but we can't abandon any one area or else we become 1D.

Ray Rice screens & dump-offs will be hard here, but if any RB can negate the ILBs from the 49ers it's Baltimore's Ray Rice. I also like Pierce's speed in this game and one-cut hard running. We'll see how Willis stands against FB Leach, who will smash you in the mouth.
[/quote]

Glad you got the thread back on topic. Just want to give my 2 cents. The Niners secondary is definitely the place to attack. If Flacco has time and a nice pocket, he should be successful.

Screen passes have usually worked well against the Niners. They have done better as of late, but for some reason a lot of teams didn't run them. I would expect some out of the Ravens.

And I would also imagine it will be Bowman who greets Leach the most. I would expect Willis to be in coverage. This of course depends on what the Ravens are trying to do. Either way, Bowman or Willis against Leach will be great to watch. All I really hope for is for Bowman or Willis to stop Leach in the hole and not get trucked too many times. Just clog it up. Leach is a beast.

I think Ravens fans will be pleasantly surprised at the Niners FB, Miller. He has the makeup to be a very good FB and has played well in the blocking game. Kinda like a Leach, but just not as big yet.

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='footballfan78' timestamp='1359582887' post='1335821']
Glad you got the thread back on topic. Just want to give my 2 cents. The Niners secondary is definitely the place to attack. If Flacco has time and a nice pocket, he should be successful.

Screen passes have usually worked well against the Niners. They have done better as of late, but for some reason a lot of teams didn't run them. I would expect some out of the Ravens.

And I would also imagine it will be Bowman who greets Leach the most. I would expect Willis to be in coverage. This of course depends on what the Ravens are trying to do. Either way, Bowman or Willis against Leach will be great to watch. All I really hope for is for Bowman or Willis to stop Leach in the hole and not get trucked too many times. Just clog it up. Leach is a beast.
I think Ravens fans will be pleasantly surprised at the Niners FB, Miller. He has the makeup to be a very good FB and has played well in the blocking game. Kinda like a Leach, but just not as big yet.
[/quote]i wanted bowman to be a raven i love that kid . if the smith brothers get there engine started our rb's are going to have a tough evening . i agree joe will exploit the 9er secondary the second half of the falcons game they actually tightened up on the back end .

[footballfan78]

[quote name='llwillow1231' timestamp='1359584377' post='1335861']
i wanted bowman to be a raven i love that kid . if the smith brothers get there engine started our rb's are going to have a tough evening . i agree joe will exploit the 9er secondary the second half of the falcons game they actually tightened up on the back end .
[/quote]

Yeah, the key is pass rush. But in all honesty, in today's NFL, pass rush is probably the most important thing. Usually any (or most) NFL QBs can be successful if there is no pass rush. So, as with most games, the one key to me is pass rush. If the Niners get it, I like their chances. If not, could be a long day. I would venture to say the same thing about the Ravens.

[jaege]

[quote name='GNielsen' timestamp='1359572819' post='1335558']
Not that it matters, but just to clear things up, at the NFL combine, Kaepernick was measured at 6'5", 233 lbs. He ran his 40 in 4.53. At the combine, Sports Science measured him to have the fastest reaction time of any QB in his class. They also rated him as having the strongest arm in the class.

Now you know.
[/quote]



[quote name='CowboyH8er' timestamp='1359568213' post='1335447']
I know you guys are upset that we are coming here offering opinions, But I dont think anyone has been coming in here saying it is going to be a blowout, and that the 49ers will win easily.

Offering a different opinion as you guys doesnt mean it isnt going to be a good game....
[/quote]


Not at all. I can respect a different opinion. You think your team is going to win. I would expect nothing less. You want to throw up a prediction on our "bold predictions" thread. That's fine. You want to rationally and logically explain why the 9ers have the advantage in your opinion, someone here may want to see that. I cannot for the life of me understand why, but different strokes. You want to discuss the nuts and bolts of football, cool. But don't come here with all this crap about how great your shiny new QB is. How awesome your nameless RB happens to be, or whatever other tripe some of these 9er trolls are spewing out their pie holes. And then keep spewing it out over and over and over and over and over and over....I think you get my point.

That we do not want to hear. That is better placed on your own forum with people who want to read about it. Putting it here smells of trolling. A perfect example is the quote right above yours. Do you actually think that any Ravens fan cares that your QB is so tall and so broad and has a really big crank? Really? Is that not trolling? That sort of thing is put here to annoy the Ravens fans, and the guy that did it knows it. Or he is just stupid.

[size=4]All this one-upmanship that the 9ers fans are playing. Its foolish and has no place here. That is borderline smack talk and you know it. As I said in another post, we realize that you guys are excited about your trip to the SB and want to share it with the world. Thing is, its like you just had an ugly baby. Sure you love it, but nobody else really wants to see it.[/size]

[size=4]We have no desire to share in your joy. I really do not think that this needs to be pointed out, but our guys are going to the SB too and that's really what we want to talk about. Not the 49ers, the Ravens. Its really that simple. [/size]

[admartian]

I fully expect the Niners LBs to give our running game and our inside routes trouble. Our line will really need to hold and we'll need to continually move the pocket like we did against the horses.

We need to keep them moving with playaction , dumpoffs etc. THat means establishing Ray and Pierce early. With Caldwell, I have more faith with his gameplanning in regards to this.

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1359586153' post='1335926']

We need to keep them moving with playaction , dumpoffs etc. THat means establishing Ray and Pierce early. With Caldwell, I have more faith with his gameplanning in regards to this.
[/quote]

In a big way this is a huge bonus for our Offense. The 49ers only have 5 weeks of tape to try and figure out what Caldwell is going to do. Caldwell may have started on some notions in these games and now had an extra two weeks to prepare his master plan. This may be the edge that gives us the greatest boost.

[admartian]

[quote name='Neal Could Block the SUN!!' timestamp='1359586512' post='1335935']
In a big way this is a huge bonus for our Offense. The 49ers only have 5 weeks of tape to try and figure out what Caldwell is going to do. Caldwell may have started on some notions in these games and now had an extra two weeks to prepare his master plan. This may be the edge that gives us the greatest boost.
[/quote]Let's hope so. BUt I still think they come out prepared - they are Harbaugh-coached.


We need to execute and just continue to get up even if it doesn't go our way early. And conversely, if we get a lead early, we need to not play conservative (but not be overly aggressive either) like Falcons and Pack did and just continue to play until the final whistle has blown.

Basically, the Pats game was a good example.

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='49erguest' timestamp='1358830247' post='1325378']
Like the field day in the second half that the Falcons had?

The Niner defense figured out your bunch formations which were causing the problems with the timing of the press and made adjustments at the half. Then came out in the third, started chipping Gonzo, shut you guys out and then closed the game out along with separating your QB's shoulder on your last set of downs.

Other than all of that nonsense about what a real defense does when the chips are down, yes, overrated, I suppose.
[/quote]we have not played the 49ers this year ? did you mean to post on the 49ers website or the flacons this is the ravens?

[ravens88]

Our offensive line is going to have to keep Joe upright and let plays develop with J. smith a little knicked up teams seem to be able to double Aldon and keep off their pass rush a lil better. I think our line change has been great in pass protection just gotta run semi effective to cant wait for sunday this week is dragging

[SecretAgentMan]

Lol at the reactions on this thread

[runamuk]

[quote name='Midnight toker' timestamp='1359576695' post='1335664']
I have been on this site for about a week I'm still looking for all those people talking about kaepernick being the greatest ever, or even the greatest in the game today, or even the greatest 49er qb ever. He's just a guy that went 7-2 in his first 9 career starts, went 2-0 in his first two playoff starts, and is playing really, really well right now. We have reason to be very excited. He has just as many conference championship wins as your flacco does, in 9 games. If that kind of thing was so easy to do, I think it'd be done a lot more often than this. Anyway, in 5 years we'll see if he's able to playoff wins in each of them. A lot of that depends on his team and them helping that along
[/quote]there are pages of kaepernick post from 49er fans on this site your post that i am quoting right now is under analysis of 49ers defense . qb is an offensive position. so off topic posting is another problem . 49er fans do not respect topics when they go off on a kaep love cruise . earlier it was frank gore under defense again,,,,, i get that people get confused earlier in media day suggs was asked about 'doing a touchdown dance "...u get the point .

[USArmyParatrooper]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1359584946' post='1335887']
Not at all. I can respect a different opinion. You think your team is going to win. I would expect nothing less. You want to throw up a prediction on our "bold predictions" thread. That's fine. You want to rationally and logically explain why the 9ers have the advantage in your opinion, someone here may want to see that. I cannot for the life of me understand why, but different strokes. You want to discuss the nuts and bolts of football, cool. [b]But don't come here with all this crap about how great your shiny new QB is. How awesome your nameless RB happens to be, or whatever other tripe some of these 9er trolls are spewing out their pie holes.[/b] And then keep spewing it out over and over and over and over and over and over....I think you get my point.

That we do not want to hear. That is better placed on your own forum with people who want to read about it. Putting it here smells of trolling. A perfect example is the quote right above yours. Do you actually think that any Ravens fan cares that your QB is so tall and so broad and has a really big crank? Really? Is that not trolling? That sort of thing is put here to annoy the Ravens fans, and the guy that did it knows it. Or he is just stupid.

[size=4]All this one-upmanship that the 9ers fans are playing. Its foolish and has no place here. That is borderline smack talk and you know it. As I said in another post, we realize that you guys are excited about your trip to the SB and want to share it with the world. Thing is, its like you just had an ugly baby. Sure you love it, but nobody else really wants to see it.[/size]

[size=4]We have no desire to share in your joy. I really do not think that this needs to be pointed out, but our guys are going to the SB too and that's really what we want to talk about. Not the 49ers, the Ravens. Its really that simple. [/size]
[/quote]

Really? All that hostility because an opposing fan talks about the positive attributes of their key players? Frank Gore.. nameless?

[PuRock]

[quote name='USArmyParatrooper' timestamp='1359606211' post='1336338']
Really? All that hostility because an opposing fan talks about the positive attributes of their key players? [b]Frank Gore.. nameless?[/b]
[/quote]

I think he was talking about LaMichael James. I have no problem with you guys being excited about your players. I always look at the 'if the shoes were on the other feet' scenario. Hell we'd be saying the same stuff.

[Dubs]

I think the biggest advantage we can have is that the 49ers rarely substitute. If we do as we have the past couple of weeks and stick to the run game for the first couple of quarters, hopefully some of their younger players up front get gassed earlier on by playing too hard and with the excitement of it all. Second half open it up and taking advantage of the many one on ones we will have throughout the game. My thought is we need to be the ones who initiate this game as a physical one on offense, not the opposite. We cannot let the 9ers set the physical tone, as they love games like that. We must set that first, even if it results in alot of 3 yards or less carries off the start. Caldwell while at times off the start of the game it is hard to watch - he sets us up for victory by doing this.

[poedacrow]

[b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"....even if it results in alot of 3 yards or less carries off the start."[/font][/color][/b]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hey Dubs, just got off a work a while ago and talking to a Niner co-worker I mentioned I thought the game would be low scoring in the first half. Lot of three and outs and some field goals but I think it heats up after both teams get a feel for what the other is doing. I could be wrong...Caldwell (and Joe) may go for the quick kill but this is a very good defensive unit and looks to be quite the chess match.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just after 10:00pm west coast time...chime in Niner fans [/font][/color]

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1359612665' post='1336432']
[b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"....even if it results in alot of 3 yards or less carries off the start."[/font][/color][/b]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hey Dubs, just got off a work a while ago and talking to a Niner co-worker I mentioned I thought the game would be low scoring in the first half. Lot of three and outs and some field goals but I think it heats up after both teams get a feel for what the other is doing. I could be wrong...Caldwell (and Joe) may go for the quick kill but this is a very good defensive unit and looks to be quite the chess match.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just after 10:00pm west coast time...chime in Niner fans [/font][/color]
[/quote]
And the one Raven fan!
If we go for the quick kill, then we will most likley win. Our D won't let Kap do damage to us with a huge lead like Atlantas

[poedacrow]

Hey Mr irrelevant. lol...I told my Niner friend as much...down 17 points at the half is not a good place to be. This may be a head banger or the Offense might go for it straight off the bat.

P.S. just got a good look at your avatar!

[poedacrow]

@ Mr I...just got a gander at your avatar!

[look@dafilm]

[quote name='look@dafilm' timestamp='1359436702' post='1333839']
I wouldn't even call Bowman the best coverage linebacker in the game, he's probably second best The 49ers usually stick Willis on the TE and Bowman on the RB of opposing offenses. They love man coverage with those 2. They're also not afraid of zone. Willis and Bowman have held their own against the likes of Megatron when opponents like to go 4 wide.

Goldson is good, but he's susceptible to guessing. Whitner is solid and pretty disciplined, but he can be beaten by his physical limitations. He's very fast, but he's stout and doesn't have very loose hips and is short and doesn't elevate very highly. So unfortunately he gets exposed a lot in man coverage against quicker WRs and bigger TEs.

Their secondary is very underrate IMO though. People look at the Packers putting up 31 and the Falcons getting all those quick yards and points and say they can be beaten, which they can, but not very easily. This pass D was top 5 this year and they compete for the football. When Fangio (49ers defensive coordinator) was asked what he did differently to shut out the Falcons in the 2nd half he said simply "nothing". They felt they had the right plays in place and the right schemes but that the Falcons were playing/calling pretty perfectly up until that point. Torrey scares me though as we can be beaten by faster WRs, its the bigger ones like Boldin we handle pretty well. Rogers is older yes but is very good still. He has one of the lowest completion percentages against him for someone that covers the slot the majority of the time. Brown can be beaten (I used to love to call him Tarell Toast myself) but has great ball skills and can get his hands on the ball. Culliver is good too. He plays a majority of the snaps since the 49ers spend most of their time in their nickel defense. He big and lanky and fast and fills in very well on the right side when Rogers slides in to cover the slot.

The 49ers pass rush I'm learning is very deceiving. Talk to 49er fans and it needs to be upgraded quickly and opposing teams fans and its great. Their problem is that they don't have that speed rusher, they are all in it to clobber the offensive line to death. Its a rush that really wears down the o-lines by the 4th qtr but doesn't disrupt too much early on.

Lets all hope for a good game for all!
[/quote]

Just throwing this one back out there in the midst of all the troll accusations round these parts

[Guest llwillow1231]

[quote name='USArmyParatrooper' timestamp='1359606211' post='1336338']
Really? All that hostility because an opposing fan talks about the positive attributes of their key players? Frank Gore.. nameless?
[/quote]after a week of 49ers ranting about how there players are better blah blah and forgetting this is a ravens forum yes all that hostility . the 49ers have forums you can gush over your players there . no one here is going to buy the argument that your team is going to beat us, you have better players etc? and hijacking every thread to talk about Kaepernik

[Midnight toker]

Is this not a thread about 49er defense? What's wrong with talking about their defense and offering opinions that we think their D can/will stop baltimore O, and what's wrong with showing reasons as to why we believe so?

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000132930/2012-Best-of-Patrick-Willis"]Highlights of Patrick Willis[/url]

What I take out of this video is a good MLB with range. Look at the myriad of different positions he is tackling. Of course as MLB you can expect just about every position coming across the middle. However, he does have good technique and seems more a traditional wrap tackler. Even in the highlight video I see few kill shot type tackles. Not saying he is a weak LB just that his style of tackling seems more wrap and drive which would not lead to big highlight reel shots.

Is he the next Ray Lewis, guess will find out if he last 17 years?

[runamuk]

[quote name='Midnight toker' timestamp='1359646098' post='1336579']
Is this not a thread about 49er defense? What's wrong with talking about their defense and offering opinions that we think their D can/will stop baltimore O, and what's wrong with showing reasons as to why we believe so?
[/quote]thats not what any of you are doing . your talking about how perfect kaepernick is frank gore etc . niether are defensive players and i stated this to you before ignoring it doesn't change the fact that over all these pages there is no football conversation its just 49er fans stating we are going to beat you because the 9ers are better . they can not be beat , etc etc. smack talking is not intelligent football conversation. and before you go there this is our forum for the ravens so we can rant about our players.

[runamuk]

[quote name='Neal Could Block the SUN!!' timestamp='1359646919' post='1336600']
[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000132930/2012-Best-of-Patrick-Willis"]Highlights of Patrick Willis[/url]

What I take out of this video is a good MLB with range. Look at the myriad of different positions he is tackling. Of course as MLB you can expect just about every position coming across the middle. However, he does have good technique and seems more a traditional wrap tackler. Even in the highlight video I see few kill shot type tackles. Not saying he is a weak LB just that his style of tackling seems more wrap and drive which would not lead to big highlight reel shots.

Is he the next Ray Lewis, guess will find out if he last 17 years?
[/quote]i think it's two soon to tell . but he is an exceptional player i don't think they are using him for four downs. not sure why that is i don't follow this team at all . as for him being like ray lewis time will tell that tale.

[poedacrow]

[quote[b] name='Midnight toker' timestamp='1359646098' post='1336579']
Is this not a thread about 49er defense? What's wrong with talking about their defense and offering opinions that we think their D can/will stop baltimore O, and what's wrong with showing reasons as to why we believe so?
[/quote] nothing wrong with it at all! The Niner defense is to be respected. It's just that, here in the AFCN we play some of the very best D's in the league...even the Browns can slap you in the mouth if you don't pay attention and the stillers are never taken lightly. This may be turn out to be a game of attrition; seeing who gets the best field position. And we'd be more than willing to trade field goals for 60 minutes if it comes to that.[/b]

[Midnight toker]

[quote name='poedacrow' timestamp='1359647294' post='1336607']
nothing wrong with it at all! The Niner defense is to be respected. It's just that, here in the AFCN we play some of the very best D's in the league...even the Browns can slap you in the mouth if you don't pay attention and the stillers are never taken lightly. This may be turn out to be a game of attrition; seeing who gets the best field position. And we'd be more than willing to trade field goals for 60 minutes if it comes to that.[/b]
[/quote]

Yep it'll be a good defenseive matchup. I know there are some good Ds in the afcn. There are some good ones in the nfcw this year too. All of them were good actually except arizona, who somehow managed to hold new england to 18 points themselves.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Midnight toker' timestamp='1359646098' post='1336579']
Is this not a thread about 49er defense? What's wrong with talking about their defense and offering opinions that we think their D can/will stop baltimore O, and what's wrong with showing reasons as to why we believe so?
[/quote]

That isn't what is happening though. And even when it is, they aren't keeping it real. Atlanta gashed your secondary with the big play. Yet, what have we heard here? "we don't give up the big play, that's our strength. If that's what you're relying on, it won't happen". Further, somehow, K-man and Gore wind up in the conversation. I had thought they played offense? I could be misinformed though.