39 replies to this topic

[bmore ravens]

I'm interested in hearing others' opinions on this, because it appears to me that Rice is a "boom or bust" player. Rice's high stuff percentage is one of the reasons that the Ravens seem to find themselves in so many third-and-longs, which in turn is a major component of the criticism of Flacco as being "inconsistent." Rice is good for a splash play every game on average (by my unquantified reckoning), which is fantastic, but Pierce in as a running back should lead to a far more consistent offensive output by virtue of the difference between a third and six and a third and three.

[Ray Ray Ravens]

[GrimCoconut]

Pierce and Rice have a perfect formula right now and I'd like to leave it as -is until at least next season and probably after. I think they both function better rotating.

[Chris J. Faria]

The discussion is only going to get worse in the next two years, when Ray Rice gets older and Bernard Pierce finds his stride. I can easily seeing so many topics getting closed and merged, just because this debate will never stop (in the near future).

The way I look at it? Well, Rice and Pierce are very different running backs; both complement each other real nicely. Rice is a better blocker, is nearly unstoppable when catching the football (since he avoids the defensive linemen) and, if given the proper blocking and lane, he can run with the football for huge gains once he cuts it to the outside and uses his speed. Pierce, on the other hand, is a bigger back and stands a better chance of actually being able to pound the football. Pierce also has a freakish athletic ability, allowing him to hurdle over defenders or escaping and picking-up yards after receiving contact.

Basically, like we saw on Sunday, if Ray Rice struggles (which he only did by fumbling twice, otherwise he had a solid game), John Harbaugh has no problem putting Bernard Pierce in. But, just imagine if Rice and Pierce lined-up, together, in some kind of split-backs formation; talk about endless possibilities...

Edited by Chris J. Faria, 11 January 2013 - 02:04 PM.

[Fang]

I think both running backs complement each other. IMO Ray Rice's presence makes Pierce a better runner. Teams game plan for Rice. So I think when a more down hill runner comes in the game the defense is caught off guard.

[Free Agent]

I truly believe that Pierce is a better pure runner than Rice, but Rice is a playmaker, plain and simple. Rice is the guy who needs the most touches, but Pierce should continue to get a significant amount of carries.

[BloodRaven]

Rice's splash playmaking is better suited for putting up points, and Pierce's consistency and one dimensional game is better suited for eating up the clock.

Those are their current roles.

[zac_fuller]

Pierce and Rice have a perfect formula right now and I'd like to leave it as -is until at least next season and probably after. I think they both function better rotating.

Agree 100%

[Hardbaugh]

Ray Rice is my favorite player on this team. I feel he's earned his stripes and should start games the rest of this season but Pierce should get spot duty in the first quarter and if he's producing first downs he should be getting more and more looks that particular game. Harbaugh shouldn't worry about upsetting the apple cart and go with Pierce in back to back series if he's getting the job done.

It seems this the Ravens blocking scheme fits Pierce's running style to a tee.



I've always said when players come to camp there should be competition for every job and I always believe no Raven player is more important than the team.

Go Ray, Go Pierce, Go Ravens!!!

Edited by Hardbaugh, 11 January 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Balmorefoosball]

The discussion is only going to get worse in the next two years, when Ray Rice gets older and Bernard Pierce finds his stride. I can easily seeing so many topics getting closed and merged, just because this debate will never stop (in the near future).

The way I look at it? Well, Rice and Pierce are very different running backs; both complement each other real nicely. Rice is a better blocker, is nearly unstoppable when catching the football (since he avoids the defensive linemen) and, if given the proper blocking and lane, he can run with the football for huge gains once he cuts it to the outside and uses his speed. Pierce, on the other hand, is a bigger back and stands a better chance of actually being able to pound the football. Pierce also has a freakish athletic ability, allowing him to hurdle over defenders or escaping and picking-up yards after receiving contact.

Basically, like we saw on Sunday, if Ray Rice struggles (which he only did by fumbling twice, otherwise he had a solid game), John Harbaugh has no problem putting Bernard Pierce in. But, just imagine if Rice and Pierce lined-up, together, in some kind of split-backs formation; talk about endless possibilities...

Agreed and agreed...
They are both integral pieces of this Ravens offense. With that said, I personally LOVE seeing power backs work.
But I think the core of this discussion comes down to "Hey! Where is that Ray Rice that we all watched squeak around like a mouse between defenders legs? That guy who could put a hand on the ground then turn that into some kind of explosive propulsion for 10 more yards?"
I think its safe to say that Rice has proven himself as a premier running back, but maybe is close to peaking... Running backs do have a short shelf life in this league...

[gabefergy]

Why do ppl seem intent on pitting Rice vs Pierce. They are both important parts of the offense and complement each other very well. As I said in another thread defenses are now forced to respect the run when either back is in the game which opens up the passing attack.

Im hoping to see a lot of single back looks with 2 TEs to force mismatches against the questionable Broncos LBs. If they stay in base then we hit Pitta or Dickson over the middle on on a nice PA boot. If they sub then run it right at them.

[baltravens]

I think that this is really going to depend on if McKinnie starts at LT and KO's at LG. If our staff feels confident with our OL lineup last week, I believe we will see a bona fide game plan from Caldwell where both RB's are used.
I think a productive Rice early will dicate rushing plays. IMO, Rice will have a great game.

Edited by baltravens, 11 January 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[ravensfan520]

Since the argument about Rice and Pierce came up... what about next year and the two backs we have on ir with Berry and Rainey. Both of those those backs resemble what we have with Rice and Pierce. Berry runs like Pierce and Rainey is a dual threat like Rice. Allen made the team based on special teams but could be moved to fb and Berry was a DB in college so he could be used on special teams as well. We are deep and young at the skilled positions... makes you wonder what the future will be now that Flacco is due a new contract.

Edited by ravensfan520, 11 January 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Twistidfunk]

I don't think you go into the game with a number. Whoeer is running better and isn't gassed should get more carries.

This game is really going to need both of these guys. I am not concerned with the amount of carries or targetting a number.

Both are lethal

[DavidJGuyton]

I can't always see the numbers on the jerseys so sometimes I can't tell if it's Rice or Pierce, but as soon as the ball is snapped, I can totally tell. I think they are a great compliment to each other

[Ravensfan23]

Keep things just like they are. Just do more of it. Pound this undersized defense and don't stop. Spread them out and use Rice out of the backfield against their LBs. Force thos edge rushers to hesitate just one split second with the play action, so that your OTs can get hands on them.

Not sure why it has to be one or the other. Both guys fit the offense and what the Ravens wanna do, but more importantly, Caldwell is using both very effectively. The Ravens have to attack that defense and not let up. Why make it easy for the Broncos, make them defend both.

[dhstandard]

But what happens when Pierce has a bad game? You can't just switch back and forth with starters. That's one of the worst mistakes a lot of teams make. The Steelers did it this year, niners did it with qb's...you take a guy and stick with him. Pierce is pretty darn good but it's all part of a 1-2 punch. We give Pierce a start (which I disagree with) and he has a bad game or two bad games then we all want Rice back. It becomes a competition between the two instead of a partnership.

Pierce has earned the trust of the coaching staff to receive extended handoffs in a drive when he plays well. We can't just avoid Rice. The duo is working so don't fix what isn't broken.

Edited by dhstandard, 11 January 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Brace yourselves. War is coming

[Footman DCXLV]

Ray Rice is the guy that people are afraid of and gameplan for. He's been doing it for years and deserves to be the starter. But, that doesn't mean the carries can't be about 50-50, which I think they should be. Keep it that way until one guy gets hot, then make give him more carries for the rest of the game. I don't think there's ever a scenario where one guy shouldn't be getting carries, but Pierce definitely deserves more carries than he was getting in the earlier part of the season. I love it every time he touches the ball. 300+ yards in the last three weeks, and no fumbles all year long.
I agree about Rice being a "boom or bust" running back. There's no denying he has more natural talent than most running backs. But, one thing he severely lacks is patience. Get him in the open field, and he's the guy you want. But, if we're playing a time-of-possesssion/field position game, I trust Pierce to consistently pick up 3-5 yards a carry while Rice will carry a bunch of one-yard gains before finally getting a ten-yarder. Pierce, has that patience, and we've seen him make something out of nothing when it looks like a sure loss, and he gets back to the line of scrimmage. Very few negative plays from Bernard Pierce. That's huge.
Both guys need touches. I'd love for every game to look like it did last week, with each guy getting 13-15 carries (although, I'd rather see them combine for more than 28 carries). I hope both guys can stay healthy so we can see what this team looks like next year with both guys getting significant carries throughout the year. Rice might drop down to around 1000 yards on the year, but I think Pierce would get much closer to it. Two 1000 yard rushers would make this offense, dare I say, consistent (read: nearly unstoppable).