Developing Tommy Streeter

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357783163' post='1300152']
I would agree except all the good lineman are going back to college =/

Maybe get some Oline help in FA instead. I do think we need a true #1 WR though.
[/quote]
Patterson or Allen are damn good

[ellicottraven]

Right now the only thing we know about Tommy Streeter is that he has a name that can become very easy to remember and is cool to say, if he turns out to be a very good WR!

[Sizzlebshu]

I'm just wondering why do people think we can get Albert. Who thinks really thinks that KC is gonna let him go and not tag or sign him?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Dont know what you have in him until you put him on field tbh.

If Doss keeps up with his terrible performances, I see him possibly vying for that #3/#4 WR spot next year.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1357782883' post='1300148']
For all the people who want us to draft a WR or FA, I say get an offensive lineman or two and develop Streeter and Thompson
[/quote]

We could do both. Just need to get a little lucky is all

[fistfullwales]

[quote name='TXRaven' timestamp='1357755413' post='1299610']
He is very raw, but I saw him play in college more than a little bit. The kid has talent. A project yes but [u][b]one worth working with[/b][/u].
[/quote]

Try saying THAT ten times fast.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357836274' post='1300568']
I'm just wondering why do people think we can get Albert. Who thinks really thinks that KC is gonna let him go and not tag or sign him?
[/quote]
Or they could take Joeckel in the draft and use that money to retain Bowe or sign another free agent WR.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357842001' post='1300658']
Or they could take Joeckel in the draft and use that money to retain Bowe or sign another free agent WR.
[/quote]
Bowe really wants out of KC so even if they pay him top money (also a cap issue) he is likely gone just because he is unhappy with the organization. While they could take Joeckel that doesnt improve their team. It keeps them basically the same which essentially negates the number one pick's purpose.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1357782883' post='1300148']
For all the people who want us to draft a WR or FA, I say get an offensive lineman or two and develop Streeter and Thompson
[/quote]

This. I'd say O-Line, D-Line, Safety in that order.

[CalvinSmoke]

I Didn't know much about Streeter, but hopefully he does become a weapon. A tall QB throwing to a tall WR just doesn't sound fair.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357848751' post='1300767']

Bowe really wants out of KC so even if they pay him top money (also a cap issue) he is likely gone just because he is unhappy with the organization. While they could take Joeckel that doesnt improve their team. It keeps them basically the same which essentially negates the number one pick's purpose.
[/quote]
You mean besides saving them roughly 10M against the cap? That money can go towards Bowe or another FA WR which is a pretty strong group. Then you draft a QB in the second round and move forward. That makes a lot of sense to me. I guess it all depends on who they like at QB in the draft and how highly they rate Joeckel in comparison to other potential #1 picks like Star or Geno. I cant see them going pass-rush when they already have two studs at OLB.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357848751' post='1300767']

Bowe really wants out of KC so even if they pay him top money (also a cap issue) he is likely gone just because he is unhappy with the organization. While they could take Joeckel that doesnt improve their team. It keeps them basically the same which essentially negates the number one pick's purpose.
[/quote]
Bowe WANTED, past tense, out of KC. Scott Pioli is gone. So is Romeo. Andy Reid is in. There is honestly a good chance he re-signs with the Chiefs because of this. You say he disliked the organization. The organization has changed save the owner.

I'm not saying Albert is coming here because of this. I am saying this because there is a realistic chance Bowe returns.

But this all has nothing to do with Tommy Streeter.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357857015' post='1300952']
You mean besides saving them roughly 10M against the cap? That money can go towards Bowe or another FA WR which is a pretty strong group. Then you draft a QB in the second round and move forward. That makes a lot of sense to me. I guess it all depends on who they like at QB in the draft and how highly they rate Joeckel in comparison to other potential #1 picks like Star or Geno. I cant see them going pass-rush when they already have two studs at OLB.
[/quote]
While it saves them money in cap in the short term ( either as a FA acquisition or pure cap), that 10 million is just pushed off into the future basically because eventually they will have to pay their LT. Assuming Joeckel pans out (not implying any reason that he can't but there is always a chance which makes this move risky), then down the line Joeckel will have to be paid and being the #1 overall pick and a LT I'm sure he will eat into that 10 mil saved significantly in the short tem. It would not surprise me if that 10 mil was reduced to somewhere in the 7.5 mil range to pay Joeckel his rookie year contract. Kalil made about 2 mil ( a tiny bit less) with significant signing bonus money and was the 4th overall pick. So 3 mil for Joeckel wouldnt be unreasonable in base salary depending on how everything is structured of course.

Now let's assume they do what you said. They take Joeckel and pay Bowe or more realistically Greg Jennings. Then what have they really accomplished. Its a lateral move. The chiefs who had the #1 overall pick wouldnt improve at all from having the number one overall pick. Essentially the pick is a waste since you had to pay a WR (assuming they go this route). That makes absolutely no sense. Again thats barring the fact they hit a homerun later in the draft and find a replacement. All this would do is age all of your players a year more basically (assuming all things stay the same, which I know never happens, but from a talent perspective and what we have to go on, this is fairest prediction we can make.)

While using the number one pick will net you a young playmaker somewhere else (as it isn't likely at qb or wr just cause of the prospects), it likely that the first options will not make you extremely competitive the first year out (altho the chiefs are an odd team because they played well below their talent). However, it is different from the above because it is not a lateral move in the long term like the above is. If we look one year into the future, and assume the chiefs once again are picking in the top part of the draft, your team actually gets younger in this scenario. There is also a short window where you will have extra cap space to work with before you have to pay these rookies bigger money, but that cycles and is the same for every team. While taking Joeckel makes your team younger, you don't really improve the talent anywhere at all as where taking a guy like Star or Jarvis does improve you talent wise at one point while weakening you at another, but in the end it gives you a degree of youth in the next year at the position you were weak in assuming there is a worthy prospect for them in the 2014 draft.

Thats my 2cents on it.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1357857717' post='1300962']
Bowe WANTED, past tense, out of KC. Scott Pioli is gone. So is Romeo. Andy Reid is in. There is honestly a good chance he re-signs with the Chiefs because of this. You say he disliked the organization. The organization has changed save the owner.

I'm not saying Albert is coming here because of this. I am saying this because there is a realistic chance Bowe returns.

But this all has nothing to do with Tommy Streeter.
[/quote]
Lol well people though the same when Van Gundy was fired about Dwight in Orlando. How'd that work out again lol?

Hey you may be right about Bowe, but all the info we have now leads us to believe that Bowe wants out. While he may have hated the GM and the coach, and they have changed, that doesn't mean he likes the new regime. He may not know anything about them and as a result doesn't want to go with an unknown when he has a chance to go to an organization that he believes is right for him based on his own deductions.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357858597' post='1300976']

While it saves them money in cap in the short term ( either as a FA acquisition or pure cap), that 10 million is just pushed off into the future basically because eventually they will have to pay their LT. Assuming Joeckel pans out (not implying any reason that he can't but there is always a chance which makes this move risky), then down the line Joeckel will have to be paid and being the #1 overall pick and a LT I'm sure he will eat into that 10 mil saved significantly in the short tem. It would not surprise me if that 10 mil was reduced to somewhere in the 7.5 mil range to pay Joeckel his rookie year contract. Kalil made about 2 mil ( a tiny bit less) with significant signing bonus money and was the 4th overall pick. So 3 mil for Joeckel wouldnt be unreasonable in base salary depending on how everything is structured of course.

Now let's assume they do what you said. They take Joeckel and pay Bowe or more realistically Greg Jennings. Then what have they really accomplished. Its a lateral move. The chiefs who had the #1 overall pick wouldnt improve at all from having the number one overall pick. Essentially the pick is a waste since you had to pay a WR (assuming they go this route). That makes absolutely no sense. Again thats barring the fact they hit a homerun later in the draft and find a replacement. All this would do is age all of your players a year more basically (assuming all things stay the same, which I know never happens, but from a talent perspective and what we have to go on, this is fairest prediction we can make.)

While using the number one pick will net you a young playmaker somewhere else (as it isn't likely at qb or wr just cause of the prospects), it likely that the first options will not make you extremely competitive the first year out (altho the chiefs are an odd team because they played well below their talent). However, it is different from the above because it is not a lateral move in the long term like the above is. If we look one year into the future, and assume the chiefs once again are picking in the top part of the draft, your team actually gets younger in this scenario. There is also a short window where you will have extra cap space to work with before you have to pay these rookies bigger money, but that cycles and is the same for every team. While taking Joeckel makes your team younger, you don't really improve the talent anywhere at all as where taking a guy like Star or Jarvis does improve you talent wise at one point while weakening you at another, but in the end it gives you a degree of youth in the next year at the position you were weak in assuming there is a worthy prospect for them in the 2014 draft.

Thats my 2cents on it.
[/quote]
I get that but teams dont build just with the future in mind. KC wants to win right now and they have the talent to do it, but they need help at QB. Bringing in Andy Reid and a potential rookie might be enough to solve that problem. If they then let Bowe leave and dont get any weapons for that offense not only are they not improving, but they are taking a step back.

I dont see how adding an impact player in FA, particularly at WR, is a lateral move. You get younger along the Oline and remain competitive right now with a potential stud LT and QB to grow with while providing the necessary playmakers to actually allow your QB to have success. Their defense is already very talented so using the #1 pick on that side of the ball really doesnt make too much sense. Star is the only guy that makes any sense if they dont take Joeckel and then they are not really addressing their biggest problem.

Simply put Joeckel makes Albert expendable and allows the team to use cap room saved to address the other needs on offense. If there was a stud WR in this draft I think the approach might be different but Joeckel is at the top of a lot of boards I have seen and with good reason.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

These are some great thoughts on tommy streeter especially the last few posts.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1357782883' post='1300148']
For all the people who want us to draft a WR or FA, I say get an offensive lineman or two and develop Streeter and Thompson
[/quote]

I agree, the team has more than enough receivers. I expect they will draft a top LB first (if available) then go after depth on the OL and DL followed by CBs and safety. Mostly defense this year!

If the team loses Kruger and Suggs has trouble returning to form then the FO has major up front work to do.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1357860475' post='1301013']
These are some great thoughts on tommy streeter especially the last few posts.
[/quote]
It stemmed from what we expect out of Streeter and what needs the team has including a stud WR. I dont think Streeter is rdy to fill that role hence the talk about finding a WR in this draft while using FA to solidify the OL--> Albert being a potential FA acquisition.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357860045' post='1301001']
I get that but teams dont build just with the future in mind. KC wants to win right now and they have the talent to do it, but they need help at QB. Bringing in Andy Reid and a potential rookie might be enough to solve that problem. If they then let Bowe leave and dont get any weapons for that offense not only are they not improving, but they are taking a step back.

[b]I dont see how adding an impact player in FA, particularly at WR, is a lateral move. You get younger along the Oline and remain competitive right now with a potential stud LT and QB to grow with while providing the necessary playmakers to actually allow your QB to have success.[/b] Their defense is already very talented so using the #1 pick on that side of the ball really doesnt make too much sense. Star is the only guy that makes any sense if they dont take Joeckel and then they are not really addressing their biggest problem.

Simply put Joeckel makes Albert expendable and allows the team to use cap room saved to address the other needs on offense. If there was a stud WR in this draft I think the approach might be different but Joeckel is at the top of a lot of boards I have seen and with good reason.
[/quote]
Let me explain this very simply

Assuming you take Joeckel and he pans out then your o line is just as good (or bad depending on how you look at it) as it was before. So there is no change there. You then retain Bowe using that cap money you allegedly save (not really since it goes to paying Bowe). So other than starting a rookie left tackle the team talent wise doesn't change at all (prior to the impact of the other draft picks). Since the level of talent didnt increase anywhere and the team generally remained the same, it only stands to reason that logically you will get a similar result in laymen's terms doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. So the net result is in all likelihood was that despite having the number one pick, you didn't improve which defeats the purpose of the number one pick. You could say they used it to maintain the 2-14 team. Now the chiefs are weird in that they are definitely better than their record indicates, but my point still stands. Despite having the number one pick, you did not add any talent, and you aged your players a year. You merely maintained the team and thus made a lateral move. Thats also assuming Bowe will come back, and you dont go for a guy like Jennings who's production is suspect due to his injuries ( he may be better, may be worse all depends on his health).

If the Chiefs are in a win now mode, what sense does this make? It doesn't. If anything all that does was age you a year (shortening the window) and sets you back a year where you may not have as much to work with (ie a worse pick than the number one pick)

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357861400' post='1301035']
It stemmed from what we expect out of Streeter and what needs the team has including a stud WR. I dont think Streeter is rdy to fill that role hence the talk about finding a WR in this draft while using FA to solidify the OL--> Albert being a potential FA acquisition.
[/quote]
Lol Streeter needs to get on the field and earn a thread. Until then I shall hijack it.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357862415' post='1301067']

Let me explain this very simply

Assuming you take Joeckel and he pans out then your o line is just as good (or bad depending on how you look at it) as it was before. So there is no change there. You then retain Bowe using that cap money you allegedly save (not really since it goes to paying Bowe). So other than starting a rookie left tackle the team talent wise doesn't change at all (prior to the impact of the other draft picks). Since the level of talent didnt increase anywhere and the team generally remained the same, it only stands to reason that logically you will get a similar result in laymen's terms doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. So the net result is in all likelihood was that despite having the number one pick, you didn't improve which defeats the purpose of the number one pick. You could say they used it to maintain the 2-14 team. Now the chiefs are weird in that they are definitely better than their record indicates, but my point still stands. Despite having the number one pick, you did not add any talent, and you aged your players a year. You merely maintained the team and thus made a lateral move. Thats also assuming Bowe will come back, and you dont go for a guy like Jennings who's production is suspect due to his injuries ( he may be better, may be worse all depends on his health).

If the Chiefs are in a win now mode, what sense does this make? It doesn't. If anything all that does was age you a year (shortening the window) and sets you back a year where you may not have as much to work with (ie a worse pick than the number one pick)
[/quote]
You are ignoring the fact that they just hired a new offensive minded coach who has a proven track record with QBs and also the potential of a new QB taken in the draft.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357863547' post='1301083']
You are ignoring the fact that they just hired a new offensive minded coach who has a proven track record with QBs and also the potential of a new QB taken in the draft.
[/quote]
You're right I am ignoring it. You know why? Because they can go either way. You have no way of figuring their impact on how the team is run. They are a complete x-factor. At qb, we have no idea who its gonna be. Geno Smith could be RG3 or he could be Michael Vick. You don't know if it will even be Geno Smith. If you can't determine it, it can be counted either way. If it can be counter either way its a push, which means that it shouldn't have much of an impact on the analysis cause its too biased depending on what you think of the qb they choose to go with whether it be Vick, Cassel, Nassib, Smith who knows.

Furthermore, Andy Reid may be a successful coach, but this is a different team. Furthermore he is not without flaws, Andy Reid may air the ball out too much causing Jamaal Charles to suffer which may cause the offense overall to suffer, or maybe not. Who knows at this point. It really isn't a factor you can definitely determine.

FWIW: I did say that my thoery doesnt account for hitting home runs in the other rounds of the draft, because they honestly weren't relevant in showing you how using the number one pick on Jockel results in a lateral move talent wise.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357863547' post='1301083']
You are ignoring the fact that they just hired a new offensive minded coach who has a proven track record with QBs and also the potential of a new QB taken in the draft.
[/quote]
True.....
All they need is a franchise QB and I think they are SB contenders to be honest.

Solid Defense, Great RB, have a great WR, another solid one in Baldwin.

Great LB corps, Good SS, Good CB, Good Dline. They are missing a QB