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ratedr

Ray Rice

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I love the guy...but how come it's never acknowledged that he has generally been ineffective in the playoffs outside of that one game @NE in 2010. I was scared that his fumbles would spur another Divisional Round @PIT type meltdown, but thankfully Boldin, Flacco, and Pierce came to play.

The question is, how do we split the carries in the games ahead, knowing Rice's playoff history and the fact that Pierce got 33 more yards on 2 less carries?
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[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Take it one game at a time. He can fix all that stuff in practice this week. Give a quarter, perhaps an entire half and if he is still not producing, then I think you start giving Pierce the majority of the carriers.[/i][/font]
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Rice's stats today were worse than Bryce Brown's in his debut! Against a bottom-5 run defense, too.
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In the game against the Colts Pierce was clearly our best RB and the Flacco to Boldin connection saved our asses. But don't ask me, what is up with Ray Rice. It is really odd to see him perform sometimes in those playoffs situations. He is usually so dependable and to see him fumble the ball...shesh.
In his defense however, Flacco and [b]Rice[/b] are the two players that got us to the playoffs in the first place, when our defense had a horrible start in this season.
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Ray Rice is the first guy defenses key on. Not Flacco, not Smith etc. Until Ravens can block against a defense keyed to stopping Rice he cant have a big game in playoffs. You are playing top teams with good defenses. The star RB is the first player they try to stop and most times they do. Its easy to come off the bench as an unknown. That's not ane xcuse for the turnovers though. Ray was a little sloppy today. How many bad games has Rice had? How many bad games has Flacco had? Nuff said.Rice still set up the rushing TD with 40+ play. Adrian Peterson didn't break 100 yesterday
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He was flat out bad today. No patience at the line, few times he showed a burst, careless with the ball.

Pierce is a faaaaar better HB on the ground. Its not even close really. If we gave Pierce the carries Rice got I wouldn't doubt Pierce going for over 1400 yards in a season.
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Rice struggles in the playoffs. Rarely does he fumble in the regular season, but in the playoffs its like he is Ryan Matthews out there just giving away the ball.
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I wanna see more of Pierce. I love ya Ray, but you don't have the best playoff history and your back ups playing lights out.
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[quote name='rayrayven' timestamp='1357511630' post='1295126']
Ray Rice is the first guy defenses key on. Not Flacco, not Smith etc. Until Ravens can block against a defense keyed to stopping Rice he cant have a big game in playoffs. You are playing top teams with good defenses. The star RB is the first player they try to stop and most times they do. Its easy to come off the bench as an unknown. That's not ane xcuse for the turnovers though. Ray was a little sloppy today. How many bad games has Rice had? How many bad games has Flacco had? Nuff said.Rice still set up the rushing TD with 40+ play. Adrian Peterson didn't break 100 yesterday
[/quote]The Colts have one of the worst rush defenses in football. Defense are keyed in the stop him, but the same goes for players like Arian Foster and he does just fine. It's a fact that Rice has been a disappointment in the playoffs. If Flacco had fumbled the ball twice, even if we still won he would have been killed. I don't understand why Rice is teflon to some people (not talking about you) when it's clear that this is becoming a trend.
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[quote name='rayrayven' timestamp='1357511630' post='1295126']
Ray Rice is the first guy defenses key on. Not Flacco, not Smith etc. Until Ravens can block against a defense keyed to stopping Rice he cant have a big game in playoffs. You are playing top teams with good defenses. The star RB is the first player they try to stop and most times they do. Its easy to come off the bench as an unknown. That's not ane xcuse for the turnovers though. Ray was a little sloppy today. How many bad games has Rice had? How many bad games has Flacco had? Nuff said.Rice still set up the rushing TD with 40+ play. Adrian Peterson didn't break 100 yesterday
[/quote]
well if they are always keying him, how does he play well in the regular season. and we did not play a team with a good defense today, so you can stop that. i dont not the reason, but he does need to pick it up these next couple games.
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[quote name='Cville-Raven' timestamp='1357511293' post='1295109']
I said the same thing and got blasted on this forum.
[/quote]

I've been saying this since we drafted Pierce. That the fans will be chanting his name in a couple years. Its happening a lot faster than I originally expected. I'd like to see more of Rice catching screens and flats and more of Pierce between the tackle. His cutting style plays well with our O-Line.

Lets not forget that Rice has had a lot of carries in his career already. He's was a workhorse in college, and been a workhorse in the NFL.
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[quote name='rayrayven' timestamp='1357511630' post='1295126']
Ray Rice is the first guy defenses key on. Not Flacco, not Smith etc. Until Ravens can block against a defense keyed to stopping Rice he cant have a big game in playoffs. You are playing top teams with good defenses. The star RB is the first player they try to stop and most times they do. Its easy to come off the bench as an unknown. That's not ane xcuse for the turnovers though. Ray was a little sloppy today. How many bad games has Rice had? How many bad games has Flacco had? Nuff said.Rice still set up the rushing TD with 40+ play. Adrian Peterson didn't break 100 yesterday
[/quote]


What? Yards gained or the defense keying in on him have nothing to do with almost single handedly blowing the game with fumbles.

I'm hoping he was just mentally spent form the whole Ray L. thing. He knows to carry the ball high and tight, just went brain dead.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1357510247' post='1295023']
I love the guy...but how come it's never acknowledged that he has generally been ineffective in the playoffs outside of that one game @NE in 2010. I was scared that his fumbles would spur another Divisional Round @PIT type meltdown, but thankfully Boldin, Flacco, and Pierce came to play.

The question is, how do we split the carries in the games ahead, knowing Rice's playoff history and the fact that Pierce got 33 more yards on 2 less carries?
[/quote]

It's been mentioned. People try to blame Flacco for the Pitt collapse 2 years ago but it was triggered by Rices fumble. I don't hate Rice but I said we should have franchised and tried to trade him. I really like the way Pierce runs and think he could handle the carries and maybe split with him and Rainey in passing situations. Hes here now though but needs to fix that problem in the post season.
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Ive been saying this to friends and co-workers for weeks. Pierce runs harder, plain and simple.

Rice is great in space however and we need to utilize him in the screen game more.
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[quote name='krrock10' timestamp='1357515764' post='1295356']
Ive been saying this to friends and co-workers for weeks. Pierce runs harder, plain and simple.

Rice is great in space however and we need to utilize him in the screen game more.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say he runs harder. But his cutting style seems to mesh well with our O-Line.
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[quote name='calculator' timestamp='1357516589' post='1295402']
I will revisit this topic one day after Pierce has a bad game, geeze u people.....
[/quote]

Don't get me wrong. I love Rice. I just wish we could use Rice's strengths more. Getting him more active in the flats as a pass-catcher. More screens. The dude is dangerous in that role. He can flat out run as well (ofcourse).

But we would make our run game more effective with a dual-threat backfield over a workhorse. Plus it will prolong Rice's shelf life.
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[quote name='frank21054' timestamp='1357511765' post='1295139']
Rice struggles in the playoffs. [b]Rarely does he fumble in the regular season, but in the playoffs its like he is Ryan Matthews out there just giving away the ball.[/b]
[/quote]

true! it is unbelievable to see that this cat can protect the ball ALL season long UNTIL he hits the playoffs for some odd reason. then...he coughs it up on the regular. Pierce should have kept running the rock to wear down the defense. Pierce is a more patient and yet explosive/power runner in between the tackles. Rice is better out in space!

~Mili
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[quote name='calculator' timestamp='1357516589' post='1295402']
I will revisit this topic one day after Pierce has a bad game, geeze u people.....
[/quote]

Sorry, but it's the truth. Pierce runs the ball harder than Rice, and he has done so all season. Rice has a history of not hitting holes hard, especially in playoff games. That's all we're saying.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357518325' post='1295523']
Sorry, but it's the truth. Pierce runs the ball harder than Rice, and he has done so all season. Rice has a history of not hitting holes hard, especially in playoff games. That's all we're saying.
[/quote]

I don't even think that it's Rice's fault. We ride him like a workhorse in the regular season. Mixing in some more of fresh legs will make Rice more effective come playoff time.
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1357518530' post='1295532']
I don't even think that it's Rice's fault. [b]We ride him like a workhorse in the regular season[/b]. Mixing in some more of fresh legs will make Rice more effective come playoff time.
[/quote]

That can't all be it. He ran the ball 40 fewer times than he did last year and 50 fewer times than he did in 2010 - his carries are right on par with his 2009 season, and he actually had his best postseason game since 2009 - today he averaged 4.7 yards a carry, which is the first time he cracked 4 yards a carry since 2009. I think he ran effectively for the most part today, what concerns me is that, for whatever reason, he loses the concept of ball security in the playoffs. IDK if it's the adrenaline, or he's trying to hard to make a play, but he in part cost us against he Steelers 2 years ago, and almost got us into trouble today.
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Let's not make Pierce the second coming of Jimmy Brown just yet.

He had a reputation of lingering injuries at Rutgers, and the NFL takes a harder toil. Let's be grateful for his production to date, his talent. Now that his horizon has risen let's see how he handles the increased attention and adjustment teams will make.

Rice has always been a complete player, and yes, while the playoffs are primetime, let's acknowledge the competetion level it brings.

A momentary illusion, a blip as it were, he's too talented to let this be a major issue. We will need both players to perform with production if we are to advance in the next round(s). They complement each other and add dimensions to Joe.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1357512215' post='1295161']
The Colts have one of the worst rush defenses in football. Defense are keyed in the stop him, but the same goes for players like Arian Foster and he does just fine. It's a fact that Rice has been a disappointment in the playoffs. If Flacco had fumbled the ball twice, even if we still won he would have been killed. I don't understand why Rice is teflon to some people (not talking about you) when it's clear that this is becoming a trend.
[/quote]

Arian Foster's line is great - unlike the Ravens (who got used by Texan's DL last year - I mean embarrased - pushed around like scrubs). Even a mediocre NFL defense can stop one guy when they aim to. They stack the the box, assign spys etc. Its easier to pass when Rice is in because the defense is cheating to the run first. That's basic football but it seems too hard for some people here to grasp because whenever a Pierce or Ricky Williams come off the bench and gets a couple nice runs vs the easier "Non Rice Stopping Defense" they get stardust in their eyes. Just shows a lack of understanding about the total game and the strategy involved. When teams play the Ravens in the playoffs the firs thing they talk about in meetings is stopping Ray Rice. They even tell you that in the papers etc. In Rice played behind the 49ers OL he could still do better inspite of stacked defense. Ravens just can't do that. Its a medicore line at best. Even when they get a push they get all bunched up in the middle and cant open a lane. Ravens offeisve is torture to watch actually. Every other play looks like a seat-of-pants borderline crisis. Key to takeaway is Rice being in the game opens the pass even when the run is being stopped. Football 101.
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I thought the 2 back system worked well today as it has most of the season. The 2 fumbles caught me off gaurd a little because Rice does not fumble that often.
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Let's calm down a bit, I am very pro Bernard Pierce but the system we have now is going to work just fine.

Rice shouldn't have coughed up those fumbles, but other than those he honestly had a good game. And he even gave us another look at the "Hey Diddle Diddle Ray Rice Up The Middle" today so let's chill on calling for his head.

Pierce can run, he's from the same mold as Arian Foster (Just a little smaller) but as we saw in his first real feature time against the Bengals, he does get banged up, and he isn't comfortable in the passing game. The 1-2 punch that we have going right now is excellent.
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People shouldn't over react its not like Ray Rice has a reoccurring fumbling problem. He made up for the first fumble with that long reception to set up that first TD. The second fumble was just a defender hustling downfield and hitting a sweet spot. Rice made a huge gain on the play but fumbled.

He ran well, caught that one good pass. Rice should have had a few more catches.

Rice had 15 carries 70 yds (long 18yd) 1 rec 47 yds.
Pierce had 13 car 103 yds ( long 43 yd).

I don't see a reason to complain either way, Rice's fumbles are a rarity, and I like that Pierce has earned more Carries with his hard running.

It's not like Rice is gonna be benched for Pierce. Teams gameplan to stop Rice first on this offense. Not Flacco.
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Time for Rice to make up for these fumbles and have a breakout playoff game .

I'll take this next week against Denver !
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[quote name='TXRaven' timestamp='1357522299' post='1295715']
I thought the 2 back system worked well today as it has most of the season. The 2 fumbles caught me off gaurd a little because Rice does not fumble that often.
[/quote]

Part of the reason the ball got knocked out is being locked up at line of scrimmage. From an article on this site :

"His first fumble came on the Ravens’ opening drive. Rice ran up the middle, but found no open lanes. He danced in the hole and eventually had the ball knocked out by former Raven Cory Redding"
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Pierce has been are leading rusher last 3 games. And is the hot hand right now. He should get more touches than rice.
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Im a huge Rice fan and i really cant defend him on this stuff. I mean two fumbles is horrible and thats his only downfall in this game to me. He finished with 117 total yards which is obviously good and 70 yards on 15 carries is good as well, so other than the fumbles obviously, i think he had a fine game.

One thing id love to see, put pierce in the backfield and have rice in the slot, i think that would make for an interesting mixup. Obviously i dont mean for the whole game but i really think we could do more damage that way. Rice is prolly the best receiving rb in the game and pierce on the ground reminds me of ricky williams, id love to see that game plan, but i really have no idea what im talking about
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He seems to have some issues in the playoffs. But, now that we have a guy like Pierce, I'm more confident. Like a lot of people have said, Pierce could be a feature back on about half the league's teams, so when Rice struggles like today, we won't have to rely on Flacco's arm.
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When I saw Rice fumble I was thinking..when was the last time Rice fumbled? And even the second time it wasnt so bad, sure a little upsetting but I think its more of playoff jitters for Rice. Marshawn Lynch coughed up the ball against the Redskins right on the goaline its just what runningbacks do, but just like Rice its only once in a long while. it looked to me that he was stripped both times not just running careless with the ball...like some players *cough Bryce Brown* who hold the ball ball above their head on a silver platter and allow the defenders to take it at will.

Rice will be fine and he is our feature back (25 carries a game). Were not going to get ahead of ourselvs and try and pull a Carolina Panthers or Buffallo Bills and have a split-back situation where players get disgruntled and want to leave, and their skills arent fully utilized. The formula we have used in the backfield the past 5 seasons was perfect, know who your dominant runner is (Ray Rice) and give him the majority, while also giving a good 10-15 opportunities to the backup (Pierce). And who knows you never know with runningbacks nowadays their shelf life is very limited they rack up the miles quick and are the most susceptible to injury. So if (good god forbid) Rice were to get a season ender or anything inbetween Pierce could have a breakout season and end up being an allstar.

Besides the Broncos top-5 defense, theres nothing to worry about in our backfield we have one of the best runningbacks in the league, and besides Dougernaut and Alfred Morris we have one of the leagues best up and coming runners in Bernard Pierce.
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Hey. Those checkdowns to Ray can be deadly. Why not plan those? If you give that man some SPACE (looking at you O line), he will burn you 9/10 times.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357518325' post='1295523']
Sorry, but it's the truth. Pierce runs the ball harder than Rice, and he has done so all season. Rice has a history of not hitting holes hard, especially in playoff games. That's all we're saying.
[/quote]
I wouldnt go so far as to start assuming Pierce is better than ray rice. Rice has been a top ranked running back for the past 5 seasons and the reason he has trouble in the playoffs is because we usually play top ranked defenses like last year we played the bengals, texans, and Pats who all have great run defenses. We played the Colts today and Rice only got the ball 15 times today and went for 70 yards which is nearly 5 yards per carry thats just about what AP averaged all season. Pierce is good but he has yet to prove anything other than the fact that sure he is a potent runner who can hit the holes good, but could he do it consistantly for 5 seasons? Runningbacks are a dime a dozen in this league, but there are only a few Adrian Petersons and Chris Johnsons and elite runners out there who can tally thousand yard seasons over and over again, and I think Rice is one of them seeing that every single season as a starting runningback he has tallied atleast 1,100 yards on the ground with 61 receptions and 450 yards. Hes not only a great runner but one of our best receivers he used to lead the team in receptions before the emergence of Torrey Smith.
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imo, we need to resurrect our 3-headed monster (Rice, Pierce and Leach) and some "unbalanced" sets...like we use to do back in the day, on Saturday against the broncos. sure, throw the rock to keep the defense honest...but man...we need to pound it relentlessly and keep Peyton and his offense on the sidelines as long as possible.

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1357534314' post='1296235']
imo, we need to resurrect our 3-headed monster (Rice, Pierce and Leach) and some "unbalanced" sets...like we use to do back in the day, on Saturday against the broncos. sure, throw the rock to keep the defense honest...but man...we need to pound it relentlessly and keep Peyton and his offense on the sidelines as long as possible.

~Mili
[/quote]
Pierce needs to see heavy action next week. He doesn't go down on initial contact and I've yet to see someone from the secondary tackle him without Pierce dragging them for another 3 or 4 yards.
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1357536296' post='1296269']
Pierce needs to see heavy action next week. He doesn't go down on initial contact and I've yet to see someone from the secondary tackle him without Pierce dragging them for another 3 or 4 yards.
[/quote]
He runs like AP; not there yet but his exposiveness and breaking tackles are unbelievable as a rookie.....wait till he has couple yrs under his belt.....
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Ray Rice is great,and did you forget today already ?,Ray Rice was probley closer to Ray Lewis then any other team mate.

on pregame intro of Ray Lewis,His teammates fought for position, trying to get as close as they could. Those not suited up whipped out their cameras to record the historic event. Running back [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/ray-rice/9d941a20-0c76-412d-85fd-165a029d59e6/"]Ray Rice[img]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/url] was crying.

“I was just emotionally distraught, and it was a lot going on in my head today,” Rice said. “It was sort of like ‘Save the Last Dance.’”

Ray Rice is human,did you forget that already ? give him a break.
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1357517979' post='1295491']


Don't get me wrong. I love Rice. I just wish we could use Rice's strengths more. Getting him more active in the flats as a pass-catcher. More screens. The dude is dangerous in that role. He can flat out run as well (ofcourse).

But we would make our run game more effective with a dual-threat backfield over a workhorse. Plus it will prolong Rice's shelf life.
[/quote]


I agree with that
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357518325' post='1295523']


Sorry, but it's the truth. Pierce runs the ball harder than Rice, and he has done so all season. Rice has a history of not hitting holes hard, especially in playoff games. That's all we're saying.
[/quote]


Rice has a history of carrying the offense when the passing game isnt working, no offense to Pierce but Rice is always amongest the league leaders in yards from scrimmage....yet you guys are selling him out for a running back who averages 6 or 7 carries a game usually? thats messed up imo
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Pierce is clearly the hot hand in the running department ATM. He often turns a yard gain into 4 or 5 and turns 3 yards gains into plus 20 yard runs.

Rice rarely does that in the run game, but is far more dangerous in the passing game.

Mix them both in early rather than all rice, try and give rice more touches in the pass game, whole running with pierce more.
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[quote name='calculator' timestamp='1357516589' post='1295402']
I will revisit this topic one day after Pierce has a bad game, geeze u people.....
[/quote]

I dont care that Rice had one bad game, its just that (as a poster above said well) he doesn't run that well in our blocking scheme. I think Pierce is better suited.

Pierce is just good at finding the hole and hitting it for 6 yards. Thats what he does best. Rice is best at making great plays in space, not necessarily from the tailback position.
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I would like to see a backfield with Rice, Pierce & Leach at the same time. Use Rice in the slot at WR if necessary.
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1357536758' post='1296276']
He runs like AP; not there yet but his exposiveness and breaking tackles are unbelievable as a rookie.....wait till he has couple yrs under his belt.....
[/quote]

Wait until he gets a full year in a NFL strength and conditioning program too. Pierce has room for more size. Hopefully he doesn't add too much and lose his explosiveness though.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1357510247' post='1295023']
I love the guy...but how come it's never acknowledged that he has generally been ineffective in the playoffs outside of that one game @NE in 2010. I was scared that his fumbles would spur another Divisional Round @PIT type meltdown, but thankfully Boldin, Flacco, and Pierce came to play.

The question is, how do we split the carries in the games ahead, knowing Rice's playoff history and the fact that Pierce got 33 more yards on 2 less carries?
[/quote]

Because they just paid Rice a huge contract(which I spoke out against well before it ever happened)... he's going to be getting the majority of the carries going forward.

But what SHOULD they do? Rice is honestly much better in open space and I'd say he might be better used as a receiver. or on third downs when screens are effective.

Pierce is clearly the better "pure-runner" in that he's just got so much more speed, acceleration, and power... things pretty improtant for getting through the initial wall of defenders at the line of scrimmage.

And if the run game is working early... I'd just continue to run Pierce and Rice. Letting them determine when they need a breather. But it's a money game, and Rice is already paid. It sucks because Pierce is probably going to end up leaving for money and the Ravens aren't going to pay two backs.

This weekend is supposed to be freezing temperatures, and possibly even snow or rain so the run game will be huge for the Ravens. Oh... and it also keeps Peyton Manning on the sidelines!
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