How is the cap affected by Ray's retirement this offseason?

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357183441' post='1287671']
About the Lewis contract...he probably got overpaid, but it's hard to not pay a player of Lewis' stature a lesser amount. It's not like his play signficantly slipped over the years either, he was on his way to another all-pro season last year until the foot injury. The contract was actually structured really smartly so Ray could retire at pretty much any point and not be a huge cap burden.
[/quote]

$1.9 million dollars is a significant cap burden. That's enough to sign a starter or at least a decent veteran backup at a lot of positions. I agree that it was born of the mistaken notion that players mean more to the team than their contributions on the field. It's not just his contract though, there are a few piss poor deals on the spreadsheet. No one who understands football can tell me Jameel McClain is worth a $4.2 million cap hit.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357183022' post='1287663']


If we do what I want to do, we can make a play for Long or Albert. It's more a matter of what does the FO want to do, and they tend to be more conservative than me. This is the same bunch of people who were talking about extending Oher a few weeks ago, they might not even recognize that there is a serious problem with the OL. It just amazes me, considering how Ozzie worked with Belichick and Belichick is unquestionably the best at understanding that the OL is the key to Brady's success.

Marcus McNeil's career is done. He is retired, and even if he wasn't he can't play. If he could he'd be on someone's team right now instead of sitting where you and I do on Sundays.



Ed Reed is a Free Agent, so a grand total of none. Not re-signing him does prevent some wasted cap space though. With Ozzie's incredible cap management skills, we'd probably give a 34 year old a 7 year deal with $50 million guaranteed, just to make sure he continues to hurt this team after he retires.

Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to sign Ray Lewis to a 7 year deal in 2009. 7 years! He was talking about retirement when he signed that contract. I knew he had 4 years left at best, and certainly not for that ridiculous sum of money he was paid. I didn't look at all the cap numbers that closely when I did my initial analysis, but looking at that spreadsheet right now has got me almost to Cundiff's missed kick anger levels. Let me just say this team is not as well run as we were led to believe.
[/quote]

Lewis's deal is still better than Bart Scott's was.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357183583' post='1287673']
Reed would be foolish not to retire. An Albert if he is let go is realistic
[/quote]

Agreed. You still can't get Albert without the other cuts, although he'll be cheaper than Long. I fear KC tags him anyway.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357183697' post='1287677']
Agreed. You still can't get Albert without the other cuts, although he'll be cheaper than Long. I fear KC tags him anyway.
[/quote]
Nah, they will prob tag Bowe to screw with him...

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1357183617' post='1287675']
Lewis's deal is still better than Bart Scott's was.
[/quote]

You made me feel better. Ozzie might suck at contract management, but there's always someone worse.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357183599' post='1287674']
$1.9 million dollars is a significant cap burden. That's enough to sign a starter or at least a decent veteran backup at a lot of positions. I agree that it was born of the mistaken notion that players mean more to the team than their contributions on the field. It's not just his contract though, there are a few piss poor deals on the spreadsheet. No one who understands football can tell me Jameel McClain is worth a $4.2 million cap hit.
[/quote]
1.9M is not a significant cap burden considering we are talking about Ray Lewis. Get real. McClain I agree is overpaid.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357183737' post='1287680']
Nah, they will prob tag Bowe to screw with him...
[/quote]

That's not how good teams operate. Bowe clearly doesn't want to play for KC, drops too many balls, and has too many off the field issues. Then again, KC is not a good organization.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357183737' post='1287678']
You made me feel better. Ozzie might suck at contract management, but there's always someone worse.
[/quote]

And the Jets found a way to make that deal look bad with Sanchez's extension.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1357183907' post='1287684']
And the Jets found a way to make that deal look bad with Sanchez's extension.
[/quote]

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357183767' post='1287681']
1.9M is not a significant cap burden considering we are talking about Ray Lewis. Get real. McClain I agree is overpaid.
[/quote]

What if it was known that Lewis' contract would have been the difference between re-signing Grubbs? Would that change your opinion? The fact is this team wasted a lot of money on a low impact position because of who a player was off the field.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357183877' post='1287683']
That's not how good teams operate. Bowe clearly doesn't want to play for KC, drops too many balls, and has too many off the field issues. [b]Then again, KC is not a good organization.[/b]
[/quote]
My point exactly

[gabefergy]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357184096' post='1287687']
What if it was known that Lewis' contract would have been the difference between re-signing Grubbs? Would that change your opinion? The fact is this team wasted a lot of money on a low impact position because of who a player was off the field.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? I would rather have Ray Lewis than Ben Grubbs.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357184373' post='1287691']
What are you talking about? I would rather have Ray Lewis than Ben Grubbs.
[/quote]

That makes no sense. A young guard who was arguably our pass protector is unquestionably more valuable than a 37 year old ILB, who on top of his age can't cover. You take way the names and analyze it from a numbers perspective and Grubbs wins that battle every time.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357184657' post='1287695']
That makes no sense. A young guard who was arguably our pass protector is unquestionably more valuable than a 37 year old ILB, who on top of his age can't cover. You take way the names and analyze it from a numbers perspective and Grubbs wins that battle every time.
[/quote]

Lewis wasnt 37 when he got that contract. Show me the numbers that puts Grubbs value over Lewis instead of just making stuff up and I might agree with you. The fact is Grubbs was a good player, but not elite at his position. He got overpaid by NO because they were desperate.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357184373' post='1287691']
What are you talking about? I would rather have Ray Lewis than Ben Grubbs.
[/quote]
I'd rather have Osemele than Grubbs. Oz has the mentallity not to build through FA, rather homegrow.... Osemele has the chance to be the best guard in the NFL, absolute beast. I like that mentallity, but would like to get a solid LT.

I'd say an offseason like this is a succesful one

Marquis Maze
Issac Sopoaga
Louis Delmas

That eliminates three big needs.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357184871' post='1287700']
I'd rather have Osemele than Grubbs. Oz has the mentallity not to build through FA, rather homegrow.... Osemele has the chance to be the best guard in the NFL, absolute beast. I like that mentallity, but would like to get a solid LT.

I'd say an offseason like this is a succesful one

Marcus McNeil
Issac Sopoaga
Louis Delmas

That eliminates three big needs.
[/quote]

I love Delmas, but he is injury prone. I'm pretty sure McNeil retired...even if he wanted to play there is no guarantee he would be any good. He struggled in 2011.

[The Raven]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357184096' post='1287687']
What if it was known that Lewis' contract would have been the difference between re-signing Grubbs? Would that change your opinion? The fact is this team wasted a lot of money on a low impact position because of who a player was off the field.
[/quote]

You can't say that one player's contract was the difference between resigning another player.

Besides, if anyone's contract was the difference, it's Rice's.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357185001' post='1287701']
I love Delmas, but he is injury prone. I'm pretty sure McNeil retired...even if he wanted to play there is no guarantee he would be any good. He struggled in 2011.
[/quote]
Sorry! Did not know!

[SecretAgentMan]

Marquis Maze
Potential slot stud, I think Oz might take him, cut by PIT. Pretty sure he would want some revenge

[The Raven]

Ray's retirement not only benefits our cap, but also the roster of the future. Maybe now Ozzie will get off his [profanity deleted] and go get an ILB that's actually starting quality.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357185165' post='1287706']
You can't say that one player's contract was the difference between resigning another player.

Besides, if anyone's contract was the difference, it's Rice's.
[/quote]

I didn't say it was, I said it might have been.

Trading Rice in the off-season is still a good way to address our needs and free up some cap space.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357185302' post='1287709']
Ray's retirement not only benefits our cap, but also the roster of the future. Maybe now Ozzie will get off his [profanity deleted] and go get an ILB that's actually starting quality.
[/quote]
I like Ellerbe, but a Skov or a Brown would excite me

[gabefergy]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357185342' post='1287711']
I didn't say it was, I said it might have been.

Trading Rice in the off-season is still a good way to address our needs and free up some cap space.
[/quote]

Just stop. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. We gave Rice a huge signing bonus. If we trade him we eat the whole thing. That is the opposite of freeing up cap space. It also puts a ton of pressure on a 2nd year RB who has never had to handle a full load and isnt nearly the dual-threat back that Rice is. Taking into consideration the leadership that Ray has taken on there is 0% chance he will be traded this offseason, nor should he.

[The Raven]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1357185342' post='1287711']
I didn't say it was, I said it might have been.

[b]Trading Rice in the off-season is still a good way to address our needs and free up some cap space.[/b]
[/quote]

Lol done

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357185534' post='1287716']
Just stop. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. We gave Rice a huge signing bonus. If we trade him we eat the whole thing. That is the opposite of freeing up cap space. It also puts a ton of pressure on a 2nd year RB who has never had to handle a full load and isnt nearly the dual-threat back that Rice is. Taking into consideration the leadership that Ray has taken on there is 0% chance he will be traded this offseason, nor should he.
[/quote]
On Trading off Rice.
I like Pierce and all, think that he would be starting on most other teams, but you are talking about one of the most versital backs in the NFL. A guy who can run pretty well, and catch better than any other running back in the NFL. Trading him would get a team a boatload of draft picks, and could help us (Herschel Walker esq trade), but why? He is clearly our best weapon on offense (and RB's are not as important anymore). Ray will not be traded. Oz can kiss his job goodbye if so!

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357185534' post='1287716']
Just stop. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. We gave Rice a huge signing bonus. If we trade him we eat the whole thing. That is the opposite of freeing up cap space. It also puts a ton of pressure on a 2nd year RB who has never had to handle a full load and isnt nearly the dual-threat back that Rice is. Taking into consideration the leadership that Ray has taken on there is 0% chance he will be traded this offseason, nor should he.
[/quote]

It's more beneficial in 2014 or after, but for the right draft picks or the right player the move would still pay off long term.

[GrimCoconut]

Ray Rice won't be going anywhere even if his running hasn't been what we're used to it being lately. First of all, if you take away the fact that he is a RB he is a very good receiver. I mean, to have a complete player who can run and receive is very hard to find.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

Ray's deal in '09 was a 3 year/22 million dollar deal w/ 15.5 guaranteed.

The remaining 4 years on the deal were a year by year thing so that Ray could retire without a big cap hit.

The "7 years" on the deal just allowed the team to prorate his guaranteed money over that period as a opposed to over 3 years.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1357186194' post='1287733']
Ray Rice won't be going anywhere even if his running hasn't been what we're used to it being lately. First of all, if you take away the fact that he is a RB he is a very good receiver. I mean, to have a complete player who can run and receive is very hard to find.
[/quote]
Only MJD is close to him

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1357180794' post='1287615']
Save $4.35 million in 2013. I'm on my phone so don't have link but I posted it early on in the retirement thread.
[/quote]

I know where you got your number now. The Sun reported that the team could accelerate the bonus money so it's all paid next year, supposedly still giving the team an additional $4.35 million in cap space still. That is a move to consider.

[url="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-financial-impact-of-ray-lewis-contract-20121016,0,2911595.story"]http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-financial-impact-of-ray-lewis-contract-20121016,0,2911595.story[/url]