10 replies to this topic

[Sizzlebshu]

I see everybody going on about how we need to fix the o-line, how we need a #1 wideout, how we need to fix the holes on D... but my question is do we really know what we have and where we truly need help

Take Michael Oher for example

Year 1: Phenomenal Right Tackle
Year 2: Below Average to Average LT
Year 3: Average RT
Year 4: Below Average LT

Now we can say that he probably isn't our answer at LT, but we really dont know how good of a RT he is because he has had no continuity at the position (he has played it before is not an excuse because we have heard that playing LT is a comp different animal than playing RT and I'm sure constantly switching doesnt help). So we know his ceiling at RT but not where he is consistently. While most players would get four years at a position Oher has had half of that. Furthermore, there are some that say he may make a good Guard which is another position we will not get to properly evaluate him at.

Now I'm not making a case for Oher here, just trying to illustrate a point. That point is that we are always concerned with what we don't have and that maybe before we try to figure that out, we should try and figure out what we do have in certain players and positions. The o-line is just a place where I find this extremely obvious. Currently the o line has

Oher - 1st round pick
Yanda - all-pro
Birk - center
Gino Gradkowski - 4th rounder
Jah Reid - 3rd rounder
Ramon Harewood - 6th rounder
Bobby Williams - free agent guard
Bryant Mckinnie - former pro bowl LT
Kelechi Osemele - 2nd round pick

are you telling me that with all of that investment into the o-line that we seriously cannot field a decent o-line talent wise? Somehow I doubt Ozzie screwed up that many times which makes me wonder what we really have here. This question raises several others in regards to blocking scheme and o-line coach. My point is perhaps instead of looking outwards for help, we may want to start looking inwards to see if the problem lies there perhaps because if that is the case than no amount of talent infused into the o-line will fix it or any position for that matter.

Edited by Sizzlebshu, 22 December 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[CosmicRedPanda]

I would be fine with keeping Oher, so long as he stays in the RT position.... that just hasn't been the case. Him on the left is just risky.

~ Cosmic

[Sizzlebshu]

I would be fine with keeping Oher, so long as he stays in the RT position.... that just hasn't been the case. Him on the left is just risky.

~ Cosmic

No offense to you, but its posts like yours that made me really debate whether picking Oher for my example.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT ANY PLAYER IN PARTICULAR.

This is just about the idea of considering maybe the problems lies with the staff or scheme or use rather than the talent invested into the positions or area.

[JO_75]

We just keep moving players so much that the o-line can never really gel as a unit. That is the number one problem, I'm sure these guys are great players but they are great at ONE position, we keep drafting guys who are versatile to play multiple positions. If we wanted a guy like that, Barrett Jones is the first player that comes to mind who is perfect for us because we shuffle the o-line so much he would be more comfortable than anyone else.

Just need to get some consistency and keep players at one position.

[CosmicRedPanda]

No offense to you, but its posts like yours that made me really debate whether picking Oher for my example.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT ANY PLAYER IN PARTICULAR.

This is just about the idea of considering maybe the problems lies with the staff or scheme or use rather than the talent invested into the positions or area.

Andy Moeller is in his fifth-season with the Ravens as the OL. So, he should be pretty seasoned at this point. If he is the issue, then perhaps we need to bring a new OL Coordinator in. Any suggestions?

~ Cosmic

[Sizzlebshu]

Andy Moeller is in his fifth-season with the Ravens as the OL. So, he should be pretty seasoned at this point. If he is the issue, then perhaps we need to bring a new OL Coordinator in. Any suggestions?

~ Cosmic

He may not be the problem, perhaps it could be the ZBS not utilizing the talent of our personnel properly. I mean we have a bunch of big mauler type guys so perhaps a power blocking scheme would be better for all we know.

Then there is the issue of pass blocking which could be a talent issue since we typically look for guys that we develop in pass blocking but are already good/great run blockers.

I'm not saying anything specifically here, but there are a lot of factors that go into creating a good o line or set at any position that we need to consider and evaluate.

Most organizations only consider major coaching changes ie cleaning house after a bad season, but I dont like this philosophy and believe that everyone and everything should be evaluated after every season and changed if necessary.

[BloodRaven]

It annoys me when we hit the scrapheap and sign fat washed up stopgaps, all because our scouts are crap at grading linemen.

[Dubs]

No offense to you, but its posts like yours that made me really debate whether picking Oher for my example.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT ANY PLAYER IN PARTICULAR.

This is just about the idea of considering maybe the problems lies with the staff or scheme or use rather than the talent invested into the positions or area.

I made a thread about this in Ravens talk forum (LINK), sadly no one took it up, I think as of now the problem lies moreso in what our vision on offense is. As I said in my one thread we have some of the best positional coaches, head coach and Scouting/Front Office - however we have been in a weird flux at OC and on offense we have never had a true vision and we are always being pulled to being a pass team or Joes offense with a strong running game that was never fully featured. If we keep consistent with todays gameplan and execution this may not be an issue but it clearly starts with Joe.

On defense I think we are in the same situation will we be a situational defense like New England, where we have players for packages and not have as many studs - but good situational play (ala our red zone defense this year). Or will we keep trying to say we are like the Ravens of the past and 49ers of now, where substitutions are much less and you line up, adjust and have a strong stable of players who stay on the field. I feel we are better suited and it is smarter to move forward as a situational defense, we have players like Kruger, Upshaw, Cody, Ellerbe, etc. who all are great in specific packages but not guys who are great every down.

Overall I think it is vision not players. We have been in flux for a long time at offense and on D we are hitting a new stage.

Edited by Dubs, 23 December 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Defence_Is_Salvation]

We are hopefully going in a new direction in both phases of the game. I believe our OL needs to look very different next season as I've said in other threads.

New LT
Osmele
New C
Yanda
Oher

In terms of coaching, a power run blocking scheme sounds more applicable. Not sure whos out there.

No moar stop gaps either.

[dhstandard]

The FO drafted Oher to be a LT and many thought he was a steal in the draft. They switched him over to LT after his great rookie season and when they realized it didn't work out they put McKinnie there who had a lot of success. McKinnie got back to being lazy and Oher was the only guy to put there so they tested it out again.

You don't know a guys skill level till you test him out and that's what the coaching staff did. We will probably see a new O-Line coach though.

[Defence_Is_Salvation]

The FO drafted Oher to be a LT and many thought he was a steal in the draft. They switched him over to LT after his great rookie season and when they realized it didn't work out they put McKinnie there who had a lot of success. McKinnie got back to being lazy and Oher was the only guy to put there so they tested it out again.

You don't know a guys skill level till you test him out and that's what the coaching staff did. We will probably see a new O-Line coach though.

Oher has one last chance. But he's played terribly and I don't believe he will be a long term raven at this stage.