At some point we need to choose

[AsianRice]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355935360' post='1270587']
Is that not just sad. He is an upgrade at LT but the Dog House is where he sits. I call that stupid. You field the best options to win and yet he sits. That is my biggest thing against Harbaugh. He would rather hold grudges then give us our best chances to win.
[/quote]
Since Harbs is very much supportive U.S military, I guess his coaching philosophy is like in military: discipline and discipline. It would be surprise to see McKinnie to play this Sunday....

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355935348' post='1270586']
We have history of drafting terrible WR, except few occasion like Torrey; Ozzie's best skill is to draft defensive players and OT, and other than that he has mediocre skill at best. Our option for WR is through trades.

For our young players on the roster, they have 3 weeks to prove themselves now.

We are not going to the draft to ignore one position, but Ozzie has his touches on defensive players and his #1 priority plan is to draft the best available on the board. Most of the time, he sees good defensive or Offensive tacklers, but not the WR cuz I don't think it is his specialty.
[/quote]

You don't let history dicate how you draft either. Limiting how you address a position to just trades is beyond stupid.

I'm not going to put the team's failures at WR strictly on Ozzie and scouting department. There have certainly been colossal busts, but there were guys with clear talent who failed due to a number of unforeseen reasons. I'd say most of thought Clayton and Demetrius Williams were the future of the team's receiving corps after '06. Mark just missed 1000 yards and Demetrius had flashed serious talent as a rookie. What happened? Both couldn't stop picking up nagging injuries, the QB play fell off and even after Flacco was drafted, the offensive philosophy was heavily geared to the run for pretty much two seasons, making any WR not named Mason mostly a glorified blocker.

That's not the case now. Even with all his inconsistency, WRs can be developed with Joe at the helm. We've seen that with Torrey and I'm positive if Doss were getting more playing time, he'd be a play-maker as well.

I don't think Ozzie or the scouting department have specialities. We've had a team where defensive skill players had a better environment to grow than WRs since 2000.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1355934882' post='1270578']
I highly disagree. [u][b]We won't know whether the young players on the roster can develop into complementary threats if they're never given a chance.[/b][/u] And as much the o-line and defense need to be addressed, you never go into a draft intending to ignore a position. Plus, you never know how FA will shake out.
[/quote]

^ this.

~Mili

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1355935959' post='1270602']
You don't let history dicate how you draft either. Limiting how you address a position to just trades is beyond stupid.

I'm not going to put the team's failures at WR strictly on Ozzie and scouting department. There have certainly been colossal busts, but there were guys with clear talent who failed a number of reasons, some that just couldn't be controlled. I thought Mark Clayton and Demetrius Williams were future of the team's receiving corps after '06. Mark just missed 1000 yards and Demetrius flashed serious talent. What happened? Both couldn;t stop picking up nagging injuries, the QB play fell off and even after Flacco was drafted, the offensive philosophy was heavily geared to the run, making any WR not named Mason a glorified blocker.

That's no the case now. Even with all his inconsistency, WRs can be developed with the current team. We've seen that with Torrey and I'm positive if Doss were getting more playing time, he'd be a play-maker as well.

I don't think Ozzie or the scouting department have specialities.
[/quote]
Well, we are just fans and not in what Ozzie and FO's thinking; the only way we judge what's our FO personnel specialty is based on the history, and without it we have no evidence to argue. If I know what Ozzie's specialty is, then the other 31 team scouts will know what Ozzie's strats are and Ozzie is not going to be one of the best GM in the league. I can go on with comparison among QBs with stats and history although it's debatable to judge good QBs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355936535' post='1270611']
Well, we are just fans and not in what Ozzie and FO's thinking; the only way we judge what's our FO personnel specialty is based on the history, and without it we have no evidence to argue. If I know what Ozzie's specialty is, then the other 31 team scouts will know what Ozzie's strats are and Ozzie is not going to be one of the best GM in the league. I can go on with comparison among QBs with stats and history although it's debatable to judge good QBs.
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with analysing draft history but do it with context. Not all draft busts were the results of goofs by the scouting department. If Ozzie and company cared about the past, they would have passed on Torrey in '11 or Upshaw last year.

I don't see why other GMs would care too much what this team's draft history. They're looking to better their own club.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355935703' post='1270595']
Since Harbs is very much supportive U.S military, I guess his coaching philosophy is like in military: discipline and discipline. It would be surprise to see McKinnie to play this Sunday....
[/quote]

I know you are right friend but if Oher gets beat and Flacco gets hurt then where are we ? I like Tyrod but not as a starter going into the post season. Flacco is just one snap away from a bone crushing blindside hit and that would be a hard loss. I think we as fans have become so one sided in that we want to win and if it does not happen we get very upset and show it by shouting it loud in the stands, when i heard the Boo's last wekk i was stunned and when the stands started to empty i was very shocked. The team just stopped trying it seemed like. They accepted a loss and that is very unlike a Ravens Team. You play the full 60 minutes here in Baltimore.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355937404' post='1270624']
I know you are right friend but if Oher gets beat and Flacco gets hurt then where are we ? I like Tyrod but not as a starter going into the post season. Flacco is just one snap away from a bone crushing blindside hit and that would be a hard loss. I think we as fans have become so one sided in that we want to win and if it does not happen we get very upset and show it by shouting it loud in the stands, when i heard the Boo's last wekk i was stunned and when the stands started to empty i was very shocked. The team just stopped trying it seemed like. They accepted a loss and that is very unlike a Ravens Team. You play the full 60 minutes here in Baltimore.
[/quote]
I think Ravens fans are not nearly as bad as Philly fans, but last Sunday performance our team need a wake up call from the fans cuz regardless of the injuries, if we didnt turn over the balls 2 times, ruining the momentum, we would had kept the game closed.
We hope we play smart football this Sunday......

[nextgen_RavensFan]

So where did we land ? Do we start building a defense to keep games close on Joe's off games or do we give the offense more tools or linemen ? It really is boiling down to one or the other as both sides are horrible. We need to decide the future soon.

[The Raven]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355940962' post='1270716']
So where did we land ? Do we start building a defense to keep games close on Joe's off games or do we give the offense more tools or linemen ? It really is boiling down to one or the other as both sides are horrible. We need to decide the future soon.
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why can't we have both? When was the last time a one sided team won the Superbowl? [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]When you explain that to me, I'll give you an answer.[/font][/color]

[nextgen_RavensFan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355943235' post='1270769']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why can't we have both? When was the last time a one sided team won the Superbowl? [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]When you explain that to me, I'll give you an answer.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Our current cap situation will not allow both. We already know if Flacco gets the money he wants then we will more then likely lose Reed and Lewis and you might say Mckinnie is already gone.

[gabefergy]

I dont think we need to go all in on one side of the ball or the other. I think there are specific needs that must be addressed on both sides.

The offensive line has to get better either through the draft or free agency. LT specifically is a huge problem and could potentially be fixed with the addition of one quality player.

We need to find LBers that can cover and play sideline to sideline.

We need one more quality DT that is versatile enough to play well in 3 and 4 man fronts.

We also probably need to find a free safety that can take over when Ed retires or moves on in free agency.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1355944239' post='1270776']
I dont think we need to go all in on one side of the ball or the other. I think there are specific needs that must be addressed on both sides.

The offensive line has to get better either through the draft or free agency. LT specifically is a huge problem and could potentially be fixed with the addition of one quality player.

We need to find LBers that can cover and play sideline to sideline.

We need one more quality DT that is versatile enough to play well in 3 and 4 man fronts.

We also probably need to find a free safety that can take over when Ed retires or moves on in free agency.
[/quote]

I think it is at that point friend. We have minimal cap space and we need to either go all in on offense and give Joe the contract he wants as i do not want to pay him the 17 mill franchise, that would be way over paying him for his "talent". We either get a deal done with Joe and settle on a solid offense by getting a decent OC or we do not sign Joe and go with Either Tyrod and get more talent for the defense. In either case we lose Lewis, Reed, Mckinnie and perhaps Flacco which would free us up to get some better talent on the defense. If we decide on Flacco we still lose Lewis, Reed, Mckinnie and maybe even go a step further and lose Williams and Boldin. It is a tough situation but that is where we are at the end of this season.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355944574' post='1270783']


I think it is at that point friend. We have minimal cap space and we need to either go all in on offense and give Joe the contract he wants as i do not want to pay him the 17 mill franchise, that would be way over paying him for his "talent". We either get a deal done with Joe and settle on a solid offense by getting a decent OC or we do not sign Joe and go with Either Tyrod and get more talent for the defense. In either case we lose Lewis, Reed, Mckinnie and perhaps Flacco which would free us up to get some better talent on the defense. If we decide on Flacco we still lose Lewis, Reed, Mckinnie and maybe even go a step further and lose Williams and Boldin. It is a tough situation but that is where we are at the end of this season.
[/quote]

I know its going to take some clever cap management and probably some tough decisions, but I dont think that means the team must strictly try to choose one side of the ball over the other. I guess you could argue tagging Flacco would be choosing offense, but I dont see it that way. I think Ray and Birk retire. If Ed comes back it will be for a lot less. I think Boldin is most likely gone and Jacoby for all he provided is most likely cut or restructured. McKinnie, Williams, Demo, and a lot of the other veteran backups are also probably gone. Those moves will free up a good chunk of cap space and if Flacco signs a long term deal it can be structured to allow a lot of flexibility up front. The only other FAs I see us trying to retain are Ellerbe and Kruger. Pitta and Art Jones most likely get a 2nd round tender and Dickson a low tender. I havent done all the math but I can see us having cap room to add a couple quality players in free agency and acquire depth and maybe a couple starters through the draft.