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nextgen_RavensFan

At some point we need to choose

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We need to decide if we are an offensive or defensive team and make the changes accordingly. We cannot survive in the NFL with both sides being mediocre. During this next draft we will need to either go pure defense and NOT trade down Oz. Or we go all offense and protect fragile Joe. Either the defense needs to carry Joe or needs to carry the game and he does not have it in him to do so for a full season. I doubt he can do it for 4 games.

In any case we need to decide on what we are, either a strong defense or a strong offense. This middle of the road crap is not going to get us anywhere but out in the first round of the play offs.
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I think that's fairly obvious. We don't even have an offense that can help the team be a balanced team.

I'd load up on the front 7 and the Oline and turn the offense into one like Houston that relies on the run to generate easy completions off the PA. Schaub would get murdered if he sat back and threw the ball 35 times in conventional shotgun formations. And really, Houston is a team that shows you how easy you can transform a defensive unit from being god awful to extremely tough with a good DC and 2 good drafts.

The coaching is just as important, if not more so.
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I totally agree that we need to decide either we go all out offensively or defensively; evidently, we are competitively in the playoff in the past 5 year due to our strong defense; however, we need a boost offensively to push us to the ultimate goal.

My suggestion is we need to spend our first top 3 pick on our O-line and the rest spent on our defense. No more WR draft crap.

Again, we need to load it up on our O-line and defense next year draft and the following year.......
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I want smash mouth football... Defense that is feared again... and a qb that won't show more drive to catch an int returner down the sideline rather than get out of a sack and/or fumble. I would rather rebuild our downlineman (oline and dline) and start over with a new qb and scheme and start from scratch... if we miss the playoffs then we will have higher picks to work with and I would take a few year of down time for a ring over just making the playoffs and getting sent home every year. Especailly if they expand the playoff teams like Roger G wants. Don't get me wrong winning the Division is great but we this year haven't deserved it and this year shows that we need to rebuild and can't rely on luck all year to get by. Tme for a new beginning and start with the trenches and work out. Because working with the qb and WR is not getting us over the hump.
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[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1355861135' post='1269585']
I want smash mouth football... Defense that is feared again... and a qb that won't show more drive to catch an int returner down the sideline rather than get out of a sack and/or fumble. I would rather rebuild our downlineman (oline and dline) and start over with a new qb and scheme and start from scratch... if we miss the playoffs then we will have higher picks to work with and I would take a few year of down time for a ring over just making the playoffs and getting sent home every year. Especailly if they expand the playoff teams like Roger G wants. Don't get me wrong winning the Division is great but we this year haven't deserved it and this year shows that we need to rebuild and can't rely on luck all year to get by. Tme for a new beginning and start with the trenches and work out. Because working with the qb and WR is not getting us over the hump.
[/quote]
Joe is like Matt Shaub who really needs a strong running game to support his passing game. He just can't take over the game like Rogers, Manning and others elite.
With our old system of smashed-mouth football, Joe is our best option.

I hope we focus on O-line and defense the next year and in the future.....
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1355860227' post='1269547']
I think that's fairly obvious. We don't even have an offense that can help the team be a balanced team.

I'd load up on the front 7 and the Oline and turn the offense into one like Houston that relies on the run to generate easy completions off the PA. Schaub would get murdered if he sat back and threw the ball 35 times in conventional shotgun formations. And really, Houston is a team that shows you how easy you can transform a defensive unit from being god awful to extremely tough with a good DC and 2 good drafts.

The coaching is just as important, if not more so.
[/quote]
To say that we should strengthen our trenches isn't novel. Simply put if we had dominant lines... we'd win more games. Maybe if we sign Jake Long... there's a couple LTs on the market next year
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[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1355862343' post='1269625']
To say that we should strengthen our trenches isn't novel. Simply put if we had dominant lines... we'd win more games. Maybe if we sign Jake Long... there's a couple LTs on the market next year
[/quote]
My contention wasn't to only just strengthen the lines, but to take more control out of Flacco's hands and to put it into the backs. Pierce should be getting 10 carries every game, Rice at least 20. I'd have the scheme never letting Flacco throw over 25 in an ideal game, with the majority of the passes coming off PA.
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1355863238' post='1269659']
My contention wasn't to only just strengthen the lines, but to take more control out of Flacco's hands and to put it into the backs. Pierce should be getting 10 carries every game, Rice at least 20. I'd have the scheme never letting Flacco throw over 25 in an ideal game, with the majority of the passes coming off PA.
[/quote]

I think 25-35 with play action and screens. Then again if we got receivers who could get open we'd be a lot better off too.

Basically if we had a better team we'd have more production.
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[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1355863238' post='1269659']
My contention wasn't to only just strengthen the lines, but to take more control out of Flacco's hands and to put it into the backs. Pierce should be getting 10 carries every game, Rice at least 20. I'd have the scheme never letting Flacco throw over 25 in an ideal game, with the majority of the passes coming off PA.
[/quote]

We do need to keep Joe in a comfort zone or he will self implode. Do not expect him to carry the team but to be a supporting cast member to a win.
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Actually I hope Oz and the front office doesn't choose just offense or just defense. We need balance, and we need to be one of the most balanced teams in the league.

I think our drafts have been leaning towards offense lately though, and I would love to move up and take a top 10 defensive talent in the teens.
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If i were in charge of player personnel I would spend all of my draft picks on Lineman (Both Offense and Defense) until they were dominant. Football is won in the trenches. A good offensive line can make an average runningback/quarterback look great (Shaun Alexander/Philip Rivers)
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My vote is for a great offense and a great defense. We can have both. As far as the draft goes, the priority should be the O or D line. If we can get a proven LT in FA then defense is the bigger priority as far as our higher picks. Then we look at LB, S, and possibly CB. Of course, the FO will probably do BPA. As long as they meet the needs with BPA then I'm fine with that.

I have high hopes for next year, but I still have high hopes this year. I get that we need to win these next two games to build momentum, and I know all the other reasons why I shouldn't be optimistic, but we're in the playoffs this year and I'm not giving up on this year.
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Give me the negs, but I really think identity is overrated. Why do we have to chose? Just win games, and I'm happy. That said, going forward, I would like to see us grab more play makers on both sides of the ball. We have plenty of solid players who can step in and get it done, which is pretty good, but as the play makers that we once had begin to fade, we have to draft others.

That's what were missing right now: superstars
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[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1355872972' post='1269948']
Give me the negs, but I really think identity is overrated. Why do we have to chose? Just win games, and I'm happy. That said, going forward, I would like to see us grab more play makers on both sides of the ball. We have plenty of solid players who can step in and get it done, which is pretty good, but as the play makers that we once had begin to fade, we have to draft others. That's what were missing right now: superstars
[/quote]
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Yeah, I totally agree with RavensAllTheWay ^. Our problem, I think, with our defense now is that we are overrating our talent. Now that Ray and Ed are nearing retirement, we need another (though I wouldn't mind a few) superstar, not just a solid player, but a legitimate superstar. We have Haloti and Suggs, which is great, and Webb now too, but we really need that new stud linebacker or pass rusher. In my opinion, a lot of are defensive players are just solidly above average, not great. For instance, I like Upshaw a lot and I think that he'll grow into a solid player, but that's basically it: a solid player. We need the next Suggs.
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Two things really need to happen in order for the offense to truly become the focal point of the team.
1) Create an offensive system consisting of more rubs, crossing patterns and use of the middle of the field which will allow separation for its WRs, thanks to its schemes.
2) Most importantly, have an OLine can consistently win the battle at the line of scrimmage, creating solid running lanes, better pass protection, eliminate or reduce the holding calls.

Until then the Ravens will always be a defense first team, regardless of who your QB or RB is. <scratch that, unless Ozzie get some once in a lifetime player like Barry Sanders who could do amazing things even without an o-line>
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355861644' post='1269598']
Joe is like Matt Shaub who really needs a strong running game to support his passing game. He just can't take over the game like Rogers, Manning and others elite.
With our old system of smashed-mouth football, Joe is our best option.

I hope we focus on O-line and defense the next year and in the future.....
[/quote]i

i love the idea but we need to have cap to sign them... and signing Joe to the deal he will ask for and if he tests the market with teams in desperate need we will lose out on good lineman. Also we would be forced to probably release Boldin and after watching Torrey and Joe work together do anyone believe that will be our #1 wr.
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Fans will be fans. smh My god we've had a minor hiccup in the road and some of you guys act like we're the Jags or Chiefs. News flash we've been to the tourney the last four seasons. Joe put the team on HIS BACK in the AFC championship game just a year ago. We should've been in the superbowl (not Joe's fault one bit).

Our o-line and d-line need HELP! Our offensive line on a good day is mediocre and our front four provides NO PRESSURE what so ever w/out a healthy suggs.

It all starts up front, if you can't pressure ANY NFL Qb they'll pick you apart. If you can't keep your QB clean he can't get the ball to his weapons. Simple. The season is not over yet. We have 2 more games left (not including ANOTHER playoff game) and we have ourselves another winning season. Be patient
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355856700' post='1269453']
We need to decide if we are an offensive or defensive team and make the changes accordingly. We cannot survive in the NFL with both sides being mediocre. During this next draft we will need to either go pure defense and NOT trade down Oz. Or we go all offense and protect fragile Joe. Either the defense needs to carry Joe or needs to carry the game and he does not have it in him to do so for a full season. I doubt he can do it for 4 games.

In any case we need to decide on what we are, either a strong defense or a strong offense. This middle of the road crap is not going to get us anywhere but out in the first round of the play offs.
[/quote]

"fragile joe" funny.. Because he's started & played in every game thus far in his 4+ year career.
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355861644' post='1269598']
Joe is like Matt Shaub who really needs a strong running game to support his passing game. He just can't take over the game like Rogers, Manning and others elite.
With our old system of smashed-mouth football, Joe is our best option.

I hope we focus on O-line and defense the next year and in the future.....
[/quote]
After one game with a new OC we are going to judge him......
Give him a new system and then we will talk.... Flacco is Brees 2.0+6(for inches taller than Brees)
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355899597' post='1270318']
After one game with a new OC we are going to judge him......
Give him a new system and then we will talk.... Flacco is Brees 2.0+6(for inches taller than Brees)
[/quote]
Great QB starts with pro-bowl O-line; without it, you can see Manning was almost out of his career and Brady once too. He has been judged ever since he becomes Ravens QB, so it's nothing new. However, I want to see what Flacco can do with our strong O-line like 09.....
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[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1355877594' post='1270029']
i love the idea but we need to have cap to sign them... and signing Joe to the deal he will ask for and if he tests the market with teams in desperate need we will lose out on good lineman. Also we would be forced to probably release Boldin and after watching [b]Torrey and Joe work together do anyone believe that will be our #1 wr.[/b]
[/quote]

I think he can be a #1 WR. He's no less talented than Mike Wallace and he's been Pittsburgh's main target for a few seasons now. The key will be getting a complimentary threat (i.e. Antonio Brown or Eric Decker) to take the heat off him.
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355933130' post='1270539']
Great QB starts with pro-bowl O-line; without it, you can see Manning was almost out of his career and Brady once too. He has been judged ever since he becomes Ravens QB, so it's nothing new. However, I want to see what Flacco can do with our strong O-line like 09.....
[/quote]
We almost made the Super Bowl last season I think because Joe had more time in the pocket than he ever had. Harbaugh moved Oher to left tackle and started a rookie at right tackle and neither player has been even adequate.
Move Yanda back to right tackle, Oher to guard and find a real left tackle. I'm not so sure Yanda couldn't play left tackle. Put Yanda at left tackle, Oher at guard and find a right tackle. I truely believe Yanda can play left tackle.
I'm not confident that Ozzie knows anything about offensive linemen. Maybe Biscotti should pay Bob Beathard a million dollars to find him 4 offensive linemen in the draft to go along with Yanda.
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[quote name='stan' timestamp='1355934039' post='1270561']
We almost made the Super Bowl last season I think because Joe had more time in the pocket than he ever had. Harbaugh moved Oher to left tackle and started a rookie at right tackle and neither player has been even adequate.
[/quote]
McKinnie is in a "very deep, dark" doghouse; I don't know what's going on with restraint but it's time to let the dog out.....
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[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1355933994' post='1270559']
I think he can be a #1 WR. He's no less talented than Mike Wallace and he's been Pittsburgh's main target for a few seasons now. The key will be getting a [b]complimentary threat [/b](i.e. Antonio Brown or Eric Decker) to take the heat off him.
[/quote]
My dream would be Derrick Mason; the only way we get good complimentary WR is through trade, and save the draft for OT and defense.....
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355934465' post='1270573']
My dream would be Derrick Mason; the only way we get good complimentary WR is through trade, and save the draft for OT and defense.....
[/quote]

I highly disagree. We won't know whether the young players on the roster can develop into complementary threats if they're never given a chance. And as much the o-line and defense need to be addressed, you never go into a draft intending to ignore a position. Plus, you never know how FA will shake out.
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[quote name='stan' timestamp='1355934039' post='1270561']
We almost made the Super Bowl last season I think because Joe had more time in the pocket than he ever had. Harbaugh moved Oher to left tackle and started a rookie at right tackle and neither player has been even adequate.
[/quote]

First off let me say that there never is a perfect NFL game and to expect Flacco to never be pressured is funny. He needs to learn to think and move at a much quicker pace then he does right now. Protection or not he needs to find a way to get the job done. Others do and my first thought is Big Ben, the guy is HUGE but is one of the best at moving around and extending the plays to get the needed yardage. In a conference where we face the Steelers, Bengals and company he needs to adapt. If he cannot adapt he is of little use on the field. Bens O'line is just as bad as ours and he finds way to get it done.

To me you cannot compare this season to last years. We lost a few key players and relied on less then average replacements or rookies. I know we faced a lot of adversity but a lot of teams have and are still finding ways to win. There has to be a reason for this right.

Our defense is just BAD, no mistaking that and it really should be bad. We lost JJ, we lost Webb for the season, Suggs was out and Ray is out. Cody is a waste of space. Ellerbe is hurt and we have Williams starting, enough said there right. All of that equals horrible.

Our Offense is up and down and recently down even lower. We all know we lost a huge piece of our offensive line and we are working with rookies, unskilled players and even some are in the dog house and do not get to play. But we still have Vonte, Rice, Pitta, Dickson, Torrey, Jacoby and Flacco along with a great surprise in Pierce. So we do have the weapons to play fast paced and get rid of the ball quickly but for some reason Flacco is in the pocket way to long. It is either bad design from the start, bad execution from the players or it is just other teams are much better which i do not agree with. We should and could be a very good Offense but we are not. You fill in what you think the issues are as i have stated mine over and over again.

Our best team so far is Special Teams and that is hard to accept when you have the tools we have.
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[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1355934882' post='1270578']
I highly disagree. We won't know whether the young players on the roster can develop into complementary threats if they're never given a chance. And as much the o-line and defense need to be addressed, you never go into a draft intending to ignore a position. Plus, you never know how FA will shake out.
[/quote]
We have history of drafting terrible WR, except few occasion like Torrey; Ozzie's best skill is to draft defensive players and OT, and other than that he has mediocre skill at best. Our option for WR is through trades.

For our young players on the roster, they have 3 weeks to prove themselves now.

We are not going to the draft to ignore one position, but Ozzie has his touches on defensive players and his #1 priority plan is to draft the best available on the board. Most of the time, he sees good defensive or Offensive tacklers, but not the WR cuz I don't think it is his specialty.
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355934230' post='1270567']
McKinnie is in a "very deep, dark" doghouse; I don't know what's going on with restraint but it's time to let the dog out.....
[/quote]

Is that not just sad. He is an upgrade at LT but the Dog House is where he sits. I call that stupid. You field the best options to win and yet he sits. That is my biggest thing against Harbaugh. He would rather hold grudges then give us our best chances to win.
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I would love for us to go into Sunday's game and stop the Giants running game. That will make a statement going into the playoffs.
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