A growing pain Game

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355759516' post='1267568']
Show? You care about the show? Sorry, I care about wins and losses. Right now Flacco has more wins with a worse o-line and a WAY worse defense. Flacco might not ever be better than he is right now, [u][b]but give him Pittsburgh's defense and we'd be sitting pretty for the playoffs.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

but that is just it right there M3. lol! imo, Flacco has had a solid Ravens defense since he's been in the league to cover up his deficiencies as a QB. now that the Ravens D is plagued with injuries and some piss poor game play themselves....imo, Flacco has not taken the opportunity to step up and show that he is that "go-to guy" to elevate his offense or the entire team on a consistent basis. Flacco is not that dude M3! listen...we've watched him for 14 games now and imo, instead of getting better he is getting worse and on top of that....the "rookie" QB's (i.e. RG3, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson and now, even Colin Kaepernick) are outplaying our 5th year starting QB. and this season....our defensive weaknesses and deficiencies have truly exposed Flacco for what he is. you can't get blood out of a turnip!

~Mili

[berad]

Defense has sucked all year yet we're still 9-5 and in the playoffs. None of that is Joe or the offense?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1355761070' post='1267619']
Defense has sucked all year yet we're still 9-5 and in the playoffs. None of that is Joe or the offense?
[/quote]

How long you been here? lol Joe only loses games. He never contributes to any win.

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1355757812' post='1267526']
Flacco has just enough potential to get everyone around him fired. He's already succeded with Cameron . I agreed with the Cam firing because this franchise had to see what Flacco could do without him.

Flacco has gotten worse. It's as obvious as anything Cam kept the reigns on because he knew Flacco couldn't be trusted. Cam had to playcall with one armed tied behind his back because of Flacco's limitations. Next guy out the door should be Flacco, no way does he even deserve the franchise tag. He hasn't had a decent year since 2010 which happened to be the year he peaked. Yet he has the audacity to call himself a top five quarterback and demand top five money. When Flacco loses out get rid of Boller 2.0 before the next preseason game.



Speaking of Boller , I shouldn't be surprised people are defending Flacco's horrendous play as he's a little better than Boller and some in the fanbase defended that guy long after it was apparent to everyone outside Ravensnation that he was horrid.

I guess some in the fanbase will find an excuse for any quarterback they bring in..
[/quote]

Your sig actually stands for what Joe brings to the game aside from his arm. He gave his heart and soul on that play to try to prevent that TD when everyone else on the field quit on it. I watched "elite" Brady throw an INT and jump back and throw his arms up when the guy ran right next to him.

It was a horrid game. All players have them. All QBs have them. The issue isn't any criticism of his play. The issue is the glee which some cannot contain when he has a horrid game.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1355761070' post='1267619']
Defense has sucked all year yet we're still 9-5 and in the playoffs. None of that is Joe or the offense?
[/quote]

c'mon B. lol! sure, we're 9-5 and in the playoffs but, we were just 9-2 not too long ago right? and the 3 games that we lost...i believe that Flacco has personally committed 5 turnovers that put our opponents in position to win the game.

~Mili

[jimmypowder]

ill tell you what what growing pains I'm growing: an ulcer watching this team!

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1355761514' post='1267632']
How long you been here? lol Joe only loses games. He never contributes to any win.



Your sig actually stands for what Joe brings to the game aside from his arm. He gave his heart and soul on that play to try to prevent that TD when everyone else on the field quit on it. I watched "elite" Brady throw an INT and jump back and throw his arms up when the guy ran right next to him.

It was a horrid game. All players have them. All QBs have them. The issue isn't any criticism of his play. [b]The issue is the glee which some cannot contain when he has a horrid game.[/b]
[/quote]

i think that the "glee" that you speak of from people is due to the fact that some of you in here attempt to defend Joe no matter what! i am one to quickly praise Joe for playing well and at the same time, i will smoke him when he plays like garbage. Joe is the QB. he touches the ball EVERY play. and i will always take what i see from him and his game play with my own eyes over what anyone else ever has to say about his game.

~Mili

[stan]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355760972' post='1267616']
but that is just it right there M3. lol! imo, Flacco has had a solid Ravens defense since he's been in the league to cover up his deficiencies as a QB. now that the Ravens D is plagued with injuries and some piss poor game play themselves....imo, Flacco has not taken the opportunity to step up and show that he is that "go-to guy" to elevate his offense or the entire team on a consistent basis. Flacco is not that dude M3! listen...we've watched him for 14 games now and imo, instead of getting better he is getting worse and on top of that....the "rookie" QB's (i.e. RG3, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson and now, even Colin Kaepernick) are outplaying our 5th year starting QB. and this season....our defensive weaknesses and deficiencies have truly exposed Flacco for what he is. you can't get blood out of a turnip!

~Mili
[/quote]
I don't get it. Defensive trouble exposes Flacco's weakness? Last year Joe had plenty of time in the pocket but our receivers couldn't get open and the running game was not what it should be. Joe didn't lack pocket presence and look confused then. We lacked planning and good schemes on offense. Now Joe has about 3 seconds and when he does have time, rarely, he's not in a rhythm with the receivers.

[berad]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355761552' post='1267633']
c'mon B. lol! sure, we're 9-5 and in the playoffs but, we were just 9-2 not too long ago right? and the 3 games that we lost...i believe that Flacco has personally committed 5 turnovers that put our opponents in position to win the game.

~Mili
[/quote]

True! Had Joe played perfect, we may not have lost those games but does that excuse the defense from allowing 23 pts to a Charlie Batch offense (and allowing them to eat the last 6 min of clock) or 31 pts to an RG3/Kirk Cousins offense (again failing in the waning minutes)?

Joe made mistakes in all of those games, he stunk in up against Denver, but it's heavy-handed to put all of the team's woes on Joe Flacco alone.

[jaege]

We all wanted Caldwell to create a silk purse from the sow's ear but did any of us actually beleive he would? It is his first game at the position and he had a whole three days to prepare. What did anyone expect? We still have to shake off the Cam Cooties, and it will take more than a week. These guys have to be recoached at this point. It could be next season before we see any real change. It is just the way it is.

We all knew that getting rid of Cam would take a loser season. Well we got rid of Cam, so now we pay the piper. I am fine with that price tag.

We will go to our 5th playoff season in a row, we may very well take the division for a second time in a row in the process. Once in the playoffs, anything can happen. Probably won't, but it can.

[Latch]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355759516' post='1267568']


Show? You care about the show? Sorry, I care about wins and losses. Right now Flacco has more wins with a worse o-line and a WAY worse defense. Flacco might not ever be better than he is right now, but give him Pittsburgh's defense and we'd be sitting pretty for the playoffs.
[/quote]

by 'show', i mean that he actually looked like he was a professional quarterback. yesterday, flacco looked like exactly what he is—a division II quarterback. if you're going to talk about wins and losses, then you might want to talk about how Roethlisberger has won Super Bowls, while Flacco hasn't even gotten there. i think that last year should've put a ring on everyone's finger, as Joe really showed up most of last year. as I've said before, he's an inconsistent quarterback who can't carry a team, unlike Roethlisberger where you get what you expected to get. lastly, if Flacco doesn't get any better than he was yesterday, we're in for a long season.

[berad]

[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355762326' post='1267660']
by 'show', i mean that he actually looked like he was a professional quarterback. yesterday, flacco looked like exactly what he is—a division II quarterback. if you're going to talk about wins and losses, then you might want to talk about how Roethlisberger has won Super Bowls, while Flacco hasn't even gotten there. i think that last year should've put a ring on everyone's finger, as Joe really showed up most of last year. as I've said before, he's an inconsistent quarterback who can't carry a team, unlike Roethlisberger where you get what you expected to get. lastly, if Flacco doesn't get any better than he was yesterday, [b]we're in for a long season.[/b]
[/quote]

LOL It's Week 16

[Latch]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1355762003' post='1267648']


True! Had Joe played perfect, we may not have lost those games but does that excuse the defense from allowing 23 pts to a Charlie Batch offense (and allowing them to eat the last 6 min of clock) or 31 pts to an RG3/Kirk Cousins offense (again failing in the waning minutes)?

Joe made mistakes in all of those games, he stunk in up against Denver, but it's heavy-handed to put all of the team's woes on Joe Flacco alone.
[/quote]

^^^^^exactly. you can't expect him to play perfect, but he could've at least held on to the ball for Pete's sake.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355761552' post='1267633']
c'mon B. lol! sure, we're 9-5 and in the playoffs but, we were just 9-2 not too long ago right? and the 3 games that we lost...i believe that Flacco has personally committed 5 turnovers that put our opponents in position to win the game.

~Mili
[/quote]

And we had the lead TWICE against Pittsburgh, which the defense gave up. We had the lead against Washington, too, which the defense gave up. When your defense is near the bottom of the league (and sadly ours is) not too many QBs can overcome that. Again, I'm not saying the Joe is elite...I'm saying that if our defense was even near the middle of the league, we'd be sitting pretty right now.

[Latch]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1355762441' post='1267663']


LOL It's Week 16
[/quote]

and tell me that watching the game yesterday [i] wasn't [/i] the longest 3 hours of your life...

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355762326' post='1267660']
by 'show', i mean that he actually looked like he was a professional quarterback. yesterday, flacco looked like exactly what he is—a division II quarterback. if you're going to talk about wins and losses, then you might want to talk about how Roethlisberger has won Super Bowls, while Flacco hasn't even gotten there. i think that last year should've put a ring on everyone's finger, as Joe really showed up most of last year. as I've said before, he's an inconsistent quarterback who can't carry a team, unlike Roethlisberger where you get what you expected to get. lastly, if Flacco doesn't get any better than he was yesterday, we're in for a long season.
[/quote]

Don't forget that Ben had nothing to do with his first Super Bowl win...that was a gift from the refs and his defense. He did just about everything he could to lose that game. Joe would have a ring now, too, if Lee Evans had held onto that ball.

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1355761514' post='1267632']

Your sig actually stands for what Joe brings to the game aside from his arm. He gave his heart and soul on that play to try to prevent that TD when everyone else on the field quit on it. I watched "elite" Brady throw an INT and jump back and throw his arms up when the guy ran right next to him.

It was a horrid game. All players have them. All QBs have them. The issue isn't any criticism of his play. The issue is the glee which some cannot contain when he has a horrid game.
[/quote]

In some alternate universe when Joe is able to win 1 Super Bowl let alone 3 please start comparisons with Tom Brady. Joe is a mediocre quarterback nothing more. There is no "glee" at all in saying that. I'd rather see the Ravens hoisting the Lombardi with Flacco as Super Bowl winning MVP but it's not in the cards. Flacco has been exposed , the more leeway this team gives him the more he screws it up. This guy wants more autonomy? Cameron knew exactly what he didn't have in Flacco yet the whole fanbase including myself gave saddled Cam with the problems on the offensive side. The main problem is number 5.

He never passed the eye test since his step back last season. Franchising this guy would be a real bad move.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355762480' post='1267666']
And we had the lead TWICE against Pittsburgh, which the defense gave up. We had the lead against Washington, too, which the defense gave up. When your defense is near the bottom of the league (and sadly ours is) not too many QBs can overcome that. Again, I'm not saying the Joe is elite...[b]I'm saying that if our defense was even near the middle of the league, we'd be sitting pretty right now.[/b]
[/quote]

i agree M3 and imo, Flacco has had a great defense ever since he's been in the league and now that our defense is injury prone and banged up and not playing well, Flacco's deficiencies as a QB and his inability to be a leader of men are being exposed.

~Mili

[Latch]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355762597' post='1267670']


Don't forget that Ben had nothing to do with his first Super Bowl win...that was a gift from the refs and his defense. He did just about everything he could to lose that game. Joe would have a ring now, too, if Lee Evans had held onto that ball.
[/quote]

i know that Ben really did nothing but throw the ball during those wins, but he did it on a consistent basis and played above-average, which was apparently enough. totally agree that we should be defending Super Bowl champions right now, but that year is over and it's time to put ourself back in that position. the entire team (aside from STs) is going backwards, so we really need Joe to step it up and lead the team to a successful postseason.

[berad]

[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355762555' post='1267667']
and tell me that watching the game yesterday [i] wasn't [/i] the longest 3 hours of your life...
[/quote]

Mentally tuned out after Flacco threw the pick-six. The game was over then, unfortunately. They had a marginally successful second half but it was of no consequence. I had other work to do so I stuck to that.

Flacco needs to improve but so does the entire team. The announcers were actually verbally abusing the defense when they couldn't stop the run even though they knew it was coming - also embarrassing. Knowshon Moreno put up almost 120 yds on us with 5.4 ypc... and Knowshon is AWFUL

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355762597' post='1267670']
Joe would have a ring now, too, if Lee Evans had held onto that ball.
[/quote]

If Flacco wouldn't have had his usual crap games against weak opponents like Jax and Tenn that championship game would have been played at home.

Since we're on the subject of championship game as I've seen numerous times people post here stating Lee Evans cost this team a Super Bowl. How is Flacco a Super Bowl winner is Lee Evans makes a catch in the AFC Championship game?

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355762725' post='1267673']
i agree M3 and imo, Flacco has had a great defense ever since he's been in the league and now that our defense is injury prone and banged up and not playing well, Flacco's deficiencies as a QB and his inability to be a leader of men are being exposed.

~Mili
[/quote]

I'll agree to the deficiencies as a QB but we fans really have no idea as to his ability to be a leader of men. Everything I've ever heard from the other players is that they like, respect, and follow him.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1355762989' post='1267681']
How is Flacco a Super Bowl winner is Lee Evans makes a catch in the AFC Championship game?
[/quote]

Because all of us Ravens fans KNOW we would have kicked the Giants' butts. :-)

[Desert]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355762480' post='1267666']
And we had the lead TWICE against Pittsburgh, which the defense gave up. We had the lead against Washington, too, which the defense gave up. When your defense is near the bottom of the league (and sadly ours is) not too many QBs can overcome that. Again, I'm not saying the Joe is elite...I'm saying that if our defense was even near the middle of the league, we'd be sitting pretty right now.
[/quote]

Don't forget the Flacco had a costly fumble that led to points in that game also...

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1355763058' post='1267684']
Because all of us Ravens fans KNOW we would have kicked the Giants' butts. :-)
[/quote]

Like "we knew" they were going to beat a poor Jacksonville team and a Tennessee team with their ancient quarterback.


Ok ;-)

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='stan' timestamp='1355761855' post='1267644']
[b]I don't get it. Defensive trouble exposes Flacco's weakness? [/b]Last year Joe had plenty of time in the pocket but our receivers couldn't get open and the running game was not what it should be. Joe didn't lack pocket presence and look confused then. We lacked planning and good schemes on offense. Now Joe has about 3 seconds and when he does have time, rarely, he's not in a rhythm with the receivers.
[/quote]

my point is that with the defense having it's troubles (i.e. injuries and poor gameplay), NOW is the time for Joe Flacco to take the reigns of this team and lead his offense to "carry" the defense and imo he's not doing that.

~Mili

[Latch]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1355762989' post='1267681']


If Flacco wouldn't have had his usual crap games against weak opponents like Jax and Tenn that championship game would have been played at home.

Since we're on the subject of championship game as I've seen numerous times people post here stating Lee Evans cost this team a Super Bowl. How is Flacco a Super Bowl winner is Lee Evans makes a catch in the AFC Championship game?
[/quote]

agree about your first point, but i don't really think Joe is the only one that cost us that Jax game. Ray fumbled the ball and he only had, what, 10 touches?

i actually couldn't watch the entirety of the Super Bowl because i knew for a fact that the ravens would've performed at least a little better than the patriots did, and they probably could've ended up hoisting that Lombardi.

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='Hardbaugh' timestamp='1355763267' post='1267688']


Like "we knew" they were going to beat a poor Jacksonville team and a Tennessee team with their ancient quarterback.


Ok ;-)
[/quote]

We beat your beloved squealers twice...

[cobrajet]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1355705098' post='1265830']
It was NOT about the playcalling!
[/quote]
Yes it was NOT about the playcalling. It was about our players and their execution and quality of play.

[Hardbaugh]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1355763808' post='1267706']
We beat your beloved squealers twice...
[/quote]

LOL, I hate anything Pittsburgh, the Penguins, Panthers, Steelers, Pirates, Heinz Ketchup, but if calling me a Steeler fan makes you feel better about the poor play at quarterback for the Ravens then be my guest.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355763296' post='1267689']
my point is that with the defense having it's troubles (i.e. injuries and poor gameplay), NOW is the time for Joe Flacco to take the reigns of this team and lead his offense to "carry" the defense and imo he's not doing that.

~Mili
[/quote]

He can't just "take" the reins. I guess that is what disappointed me in Caldwell this game. The leash on Joe was not loosened. I wonder too if it is a bad idea right now for Caldwell to be up in the booth removed from the players (since he is new to being OC). That could be a big part of the problem.