Blessing in disguise? Answer Yes or No

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Your hypothetical question is interesting. The consideration to replace Cam apparently started after the Pittsburgh loss. If we had beaten the Redskins, I doubt the move would have been made. The offense bounced back and scored 28 points on the road. In fact, Cam's offense produced enough points in both games to be victorious. In both games, the defense and/or ST let us down. If we had won both games, the decision to replace Cam would have made absolutely no sense IMO. Our record would have been 11-2 and we would have already clinched our division. The perception of many sports fans is that the decision is a sign of panic and desperation. Some fans question the timing. I prefer to believe it was not motivated by anyone's ego or a sense of panic and desperation but rather out of a sense of urgency. In light of the back-to-back losses, I agree with the decision to dismiss Cam now because I think there is still hope that we can salvage the season. To answer to your question, any decision to dismiss Cam even if we won the last two games would have to take into consideration Cam's body of work as an OC in those games but it is very difficult to imagine a scenario where he would be dismissed if our record was now 11-2. During our SB year,we had five games in a row where our offense stunk up the field. So, my answer is NO! The jury is still out whether it is a blessing in disguise IMO. That will all depend on how the season ends.

[EricH]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355334523' post='1259201']
I would have rather clinched the division with a win over Pitt.
[/quote]
This.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Twistidfunk' timestamp='1355335266' post='1259224']
WInning is always better
[/quote]

We may win more games down the road with Caldwell than Cam. Gotta think long term as well.

[flaccopoe]

Who's the new QB coach?

[flaccopoe]

If the Ravens end up winning the division, it will have been worth it. If they don't, you won't be able to blame Caldwell either. He only has 3 games left in the season to lift up the offense from the Cameron Blues.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1355380858' post='1259937']
Who's the new QB coach?
[/quote]

Still Caldwell.

[RavensQB]

Well when you lift a 1000lb gorrilia off the back of the offense they just may do more than you think.

Really listen to players comments. They are very low key on the "CAM" words.

Ray Rice. Said along to lines of..... Caldwell has the respect of the locker room. Does that mean Cam did not? Hmmmm

[HoldingCall]

You can't put players on notice but keep giving coaches a pass or you will lose the locker room. It was time to move on!

[RavensQB]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1355384082' post='1259952']
You can't put players on notice but keep giving coaches a pass or you will lose the locker room. It was time to move on!
[/quote]

Well you can and it is called the BENCH.

[Ravensfan23]

I'll say it was good, but for reasons other then what most are saying. I think it was good for the players sake, because as Ray Rice said, iit puts guys on notice. There are far too many drops, missed assignments and overall lack of focus at crucial times with this offense. Regardless if it was Harbs or the FO office, which doesn't matter, a message was set. Status quo isn't good enough. I think they looked at the fact that the defense probably is as good as it'll get with all the injuries, so the offense has to step up big time.

The offense has made some huge mistakes in the playoffs the last 2 years, that could have very well cost this team a Super Bowl or 2. With this defense, the offense will need to be razor sharp and they have that potential. Guys need to step up

[jaege]

No. It is not a blessing in disguise. It is a very undisguised, visible, apparent blessing. Losing those two games is more than worth it to have that walking affliction removed form the team.

I can't say what we may do with the rest of the season (likely take the division and make the playoffs, since it would really be difficult not to at this stage) but next season will be better, regardless.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1355380858' post='1259937']
Who's the new QB coach?
[/quote]
I'm waiting a call back

[axisofeeble]

Yes I would trade two wins and 11-2 record today for Caldwell as OC. Cam didn't put this crippled defense to g ether.Caldwell's play calling of the same basic offense won't fix a young error prone LT,LG,RT run blocking first uninmaginative offense. I fear a 5 game losing streak to end this year's injury laden collapse. Look at the Steelers-injuries and age on defense has them out of the playoffs again this year. We got old on D slowly,we will rebuild the D just as slowly. Caldwell as OC is throwing a hail Mary if Flacco doesn't get sacked. 11-2? You betcha!! I'm still glad Cam is gone though.

[Larryterri]

Im not sure which collapse was worse, offense or defense. I get it, if Cam's offense would have put points up then sure the games wouldnt have been close and all that. But Pees can't get his guys off the field to give the O a chance. Predictable play calling sucks to be sure and I think we made the right move, however, is Pees being held accountable as well? Not saying you want to replace two coordinators at once but this defense has been horrible at times, and night and day change from when Pagano led it, to now. I dont want to hear about injuries either, because even at the start of the season it was bad.

[flynismo]

Batch slapped??

And I'll take those losses, if that were the only way we were getting rid of Cam.
But now, it looks like we will be missing out on a first week bye.

[cobrajet]

As far as the defense, we were playing bad until Suggs came back and then we had a string of games where the defense was looking a lot better then Suggs gets hurt again and we lose the last two games. That makes me think it may not be all Pees' fault. The defense has been seriously banged up, the offense does not get that pass. Would Pees be on the hotseat if Webb, Ray, T-Sizzle, and Haloti were all on the field healthy together, not including the fact that we lost a beast of a player in Cory Redding and when you switch out a veteran like JJ for a first year player like Upshaw it is going to take a while. If Pees had Pagano's defense from last season, it my not even be a conversation.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1355350107' post='1259519']
Yes it was a blessing in disguise. We are in the playoffs anyway unless we lose out and the Pitt-Cincy game ends in a tie,along
with them both winning their other two games .

I think Harbs knew we would go nowhere in the playoffs this year without a shakeup on offense that will require us to score more points because our defense is awful primarily due to a massive amount of injuries.Having Johnson or whatever his name was covering Garcon is all you need to know about the health of our D.
[/quote]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Larryterri' timestamp='1355403564' post='1260000']
Im not sure which collapse was worse, offense or defense. I get it, if Cam's offense would have put points up then sure the games wouldnt have been close and all that. But Pees can't get his guys off the field to give the O a chance. Predictable play calling sucks to be sure and I think we made the right move, however, is Pees being held accountable as well? Not saying you want to replace two coordinators at once but this defense has been horrible at times, and night and day change from when Pagano led it, to now. I dont want to hear about injuries either, because even at the start of the season it was bad.
[/quote]

You can't just discount injuries. Yea at the start of the season things were bad, but the defense starting to get better as these young guys starting getting more comfortable in their roles. However just as things seem to be getting better, your hit with the injury bug. I'm not a huge fan of this scheme, but Pees has been up against it this year no doubt.

Pees made a really strong point on Gameplan last night. He said, during the first 2 drives, they just made it too obvious that RG3 was their focus and guys just got out of their lanes. When you consider they youth on this team, that's understandable. Also he said the Defense tried some new things and that after first 2 drives, the D contained RG3 as well if not better then anyone else.

In the 4th quarter of that game, the defense had Josh Bynes making the calls and Pees said that's the first time he's had to do that, even at Auburn. Usually i fault Pees for playing soft on late game drives, but he didn't at all against the Skins. He pressured, players just got beat and when you are dealing with 4th and 5th string guys, that's understandable.

Unless someone with a big name and a great knowledge of what the Ravens do defensively (Rex,Nolan or Ron Rivera) becomes available which i don't see, the Ravens are gonna just take the approach of getting injured guys health and develop the young guys into Pees' defense

[PurpleCityLights]

Blessing for me but not for the Flacco lovers on this site. No one to blame now, better hope this bird can fly....

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1355407691' post='1260015']
As far as the defense, we were playing bad until Suggs came back and then we had a string of games where the defense was looking a lot better then Suggs gets hurt again and we lose the last two games. That makes me think it may not be all Pees' fault. The defense has been seriously banged up, the offense does not get that pass. Would Pees be on the hotseat if Webb, Ray, T-Sizzle, and Haloti were all on the field healthy together, not including the fact that we lost a beast of a player in Cory Redding and when you switch out a veteran like JJ for a first year player like Upshaw it is going to take a while. If Pees had Pagano's defense from last season, it my not even be a conversation.
[/quote]

Also think about this. Sunday if Ray doesn't play, the Ravens might have the backup to Ray Lewis' backup starting and the backup to Jameel McClain starting. You're probably looking at Josh Bynes and B.A starting, with McClellan and Carr also seeing time. That's cazy.

Also the backup to Webb's backup is now starting. The Ravens are using 4th and 5th DBs. Chris Johnson haven't played in a full year and the Ravens are asking big minutes from him.

For the people who wanna compare Pees to Pagano and Rex, remember when Rex had to play with Martin, Prude, and Pittman in the secondary back on 2007? The Ravens defense got lit up in most games and the overall team record was bad. The Ravens lost to Cam Cameron that year, gave him his only win. That ought to stir things up

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

YES

Five years of watching this offense play in a bipolar epidemic is enough.

Teams knew that even if they were losing at the half, one minor adjustment would befuddle Cam.

We should have made the Super Bowl more than once in the last few years and Cam is at fault!

Good riddance!

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1355333796' post='1259175']


You won't be able to judge Caldwell at all this season. He's still got to operate out of Cam's playbook. He's still going to be running the same type of system. There's no time to overhaul the thing at this point. We're just going to be seeing Caldwell's STYLE of play-calling and game-planning, versus Cam's. But personally, I don't think Cam had a bigger single issue than his playbook and the system he implemented. Sure, his game-planning wasn't always right (but I think it usually was), and his in-game adjustments were always lacking (game-plan was often good but as the defense adjusted, Cam failed to properly adjust). But, those issues were not as big of a problem as the dreadfully predictable, old-fashioned playbook that didn't have any plays in there to help the receivers get open within the frame of time that the offensive line could protect Flacco.

We won't see what this offense can do until we have a new playbook!
[/quote]

The biggest problem with Caldwell is that we don't have Manning as our qb. If we start using more no huddle and quick routes to beat defenses can Flacco do that or does he revert to holding onto ball and forcing passes. We may need a whole new system but will that system work with Flacco if we have them both for next. That's is the biggest question. He has the strongest arm in football but as it has shown he still can't read defenses.

[ravensfan520]

[quote name='PurpleCityLights' timestamp='1355411687' post='1260050']
Blessing for me but not for the Flacco lovers on this site. No one to blame now, better hope this bird can fly....
[/quote]

Derrick Mason said that now the pressure falls on Flacco... can he hold up to the pressure... can he win games now and into the playoffs without the pressure being placed on Cam. He definetly now is playing for his next year contract.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='RavensQB' timestamp='1355384447' post='1259953']
Well you can and it is called the BENCH.
[/quote]

The comment was in reference to coaches. There is no bench for coaches to be sent to except out the door. Point being coaches have to be held accountable as well. .

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1355332491' post='1259138']

[b]If you could change the past two games to wins, but would have to finish the regular season and playoffs with Cam Cameron as our offensive coordinator calling the plays would you do it? [/b][b]Yes or No[/b]

[/quote]


[img]http://mimg.ugo.com/201008/54935/cuts/best-of-tron-16_288x216.jpg[/img]

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1355337058' post='1259271']
I agree. I think we have a better chance of winning a SB without Cam than with him regardless of seeding.
[/quote]

This times A million

[Ravenslifer]

Superbowl winners are crowned in February, not December. Teams that have looked worse than we do right now made it to the Superbowl and won the whole thing. I don't think changing coordinators will answer one question or another about the offense in the years to come, but I do think, despite what players have said, that there was a clear disconnect between Cam and the offense, and I think Jim can do some things that will make us a better team going forward.

[Fang]

YES

We would be division champs right now and fighting for a #1 seed. I'll take my chances with Cam in the playoffs and then reevaluate after the season.

[TXRaven]

It very well could be. Only time will tell.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1355399066' post='1259984']
[b]I'm waiting a call back[/b]
[/quote]


Sorry bud, youR not going to get the call. I just signed a contract. Booyaa BURN!!!!