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dhstandard

Larger Issue behind Cam Firing?

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I was reading the rumor post [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-1211-Rumors-Surrounding-Cam-Camerons-Dismissal/5e2ad17f-abed-43fc-9cef-75e0d2b5b4bd"]http://www.baltimore...ef-75e0d2b5b4bd[/url]

and it seems like these guys are on to something. Think about it. We bring in Jim Zorn just two years after moderate progression with Flacco. Flacco and Zorn form a good relationship which Cam supposedly dislikes and Zorn is fired the next year.


When Zorn was fired it was the first time we heard Flacco really speak out. I'm sure this widened the rift with Cam Cameron. Has there been this underlying dislike towards Cam by much of the players and coaching staff this long? I think it's very possible.

I have yet to see a tweet by a player wishing Cam good luck or someone who seemed surprised other than Suggs. Everyone seems to have moved on pretty fast and isn't looking back.
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It seems like there has always been dislike for Cam from the offense, especially from Flacco.

After all, how can you like the guy who holds the key to your handcuffs?
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1355263773' post='1258389']
I was reading the rumor post [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-1211-Rumors-Surrounding-Cam-Camerons-Dismissal/5e2ad17f-abed-43fc-9cef-75e0d2b5b4bd"]http://www.baltimore...ef-75e0d2b5b4bd[/url]

and it seems like these guys are on to something. Think about it. We bring in Jim Zorn just two years after moderate progression with Flacco. Flacco and Zorn get a good relationship and which Cam supposedly dislikes and Zorn is fired the next year.


When Zorn was fired it was the first time we heard Flacco really speak out. I'm sure this widened the rift with Cam Cameron. Has there been this underlying dislike towards Cam by much of the players and coaching staff this long? I think it's very possible.

I have yet to see a tweet by a player wishing Cam good luck or someone who seemed surprised other than Suggs. Everyone seems to have moved on pretty fast and isn't looking back.
[/quote]

It had been rumored for a while that the players do not get along with Cam Cameron. It was most evident in Joe, going back to a shouting match with Cam a few years ago.

Had no idea he didn't get along with coaches either!
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355264029' post='1258393']
[b]It had been rumored for a while that the players do not get along with Cam Cameron[/b]. It was most evident in Joe, going back to a shouting match with Cam a few years ago.

Had no idea he didn't get along with coaches either!
[/quote]


Others players have since come out and said Cam thinks everything he says is right. Willie Anderson and Daniel Wilcox to name a few.
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Ray Rice wished him luck. I'm sure our players are being asked to keep things tight lipped.

[quote]“I thought he was a great coach and he’s done a lot for me the last few years,” Rice said. “I don’t know the pressure of being an offensive coordinator, but I do know the pressure to win, and we’ve done a lot of winning over the last few years with him. I’m sure he’ll get a job elsewhere. I definitely wish the guy the best in his career.”[/quote]

from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ray-Rice-Reacts-To-Offensive-Coordinator-Change/d5e2dece-6f9b-4087-9320-f876046a1b67
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[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1355264140' post='1258394']
Others players have since come out and said Cam thinks everything he says is right. Willie Anderson and Daniel Wilcox to name a few.
[/quote]

Cam is hardheaded and never thought he was wrong. Im guessing it was a my way or the highway philosophy .
I doubt IMO if he listened to his players much and from the argument with Harbs on Sunday,he maybe wasn't listening to him either.

Good riddance .I guarantee you Caldwell already has more respect in less then a year from his players then Cam
had in five .
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[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1355264231' post='1258395']
Ray Rice wished him luck. I'm sure our players are being asked to keep things tight lipped.



from [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ray-Rice-Reacts-To-Offensive-Coordinator-Change/d5e2dece-6f9b-4087-9320-f876046a1b67"]http://www.baltimore...20-f876046a1b67[/url]
[/quote]


But Ray Rice was also the same one fuming after the Redskins game and he has said numerous times about not being able to finish games and giving up points. I think we know what he really means by that.
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It's been so obvious this year that Joe gets frustrated with the offense and with Cam whenever they take control away from him. He wants to go no-huddle. And from the behind the bench videos I've seen over the last two years, the players have to constantly come up to Cam and tell him what he's doing wrong because Cam doesn't see it.
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Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
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It seems like Joe got along well with Hue Jackson, Jim Zorn and Jim Caldwell, so apparently it's not Flacco that is the personality problem here. I suspect there was a little more tension between Flacco and Cam then anyone's admitting.

But, like Mike Preston said, it's all on Flacco now - he doesn't have anyone left to blame, if he doesn't prosper now...
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[quote name='woodson2000' timestamp='1355267662' post='1258480']
Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
[/quote]
Well, to be fair, ben is a pompous moron while Todd Haley is really creepy! And Ben is elite (though his SBs have nothing to do with him, he was just their to throw the ball)
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1355267977' post='1258485']
It seems like Joe got along well with Hue Jackson, Jim Zorn and Jim Caldwell, so apparently it's not Flacco that is the personality problem here. I suspect there was a little more tension between Flacco and Cam then anyone's admitting.

But, like Mike Preston said, it's all on Flacco now - he doesn't have anyone left to blame, if he doesn't prosper now...
[/quote]

Prosper this year or next? If all things stay the same from last year to this year, does it really say anything about Joe? Flacco is averaging over 300yds and 2TDs at home this year. With 2 of the next 3 games at home and the no huddle probably being featured heavily, would it really speak favorably of Flacco if he comes out and marches up and down the field on the Broncos and Giants?

I think this Cam thing was a long time coming and guys like myself took long to see the writing on the wall. I do think Flacco has been held back by Cam, but i think people are putting too much into the whole, now the pressure falls on Flacco thing, at least for the remainder of this year. Now starting next year, yes because he'll be in his 6 year and the offense will be catered to fit him.
However, i expect nothing different from Flacco this year. I expect him to put up big number at home the next 2 weeks.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355270621' post='1258526']
Well, to be fair, ben is a pompous moron while Todd Haley is really creepy! And Ben is elite (though his SBs have nothing to do with him, he was just their to throw the ball)
[/quote]


Ben isnt elite,hes just really good.The elite qbs are Brady,Rodgers,Manning and Brees.Roethlisberger and Eli are a step below that.
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There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
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Let's not forget the time Harbs stopped an apparent 'mutiny' in the locker room. I highly doubt that Cam wasn't a topic of discussion there. I'm assuming it was a kind of 'be-nice-to-him-because-coach-says-too' thing.
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[quote name='woodson2000' timestamp='1355267662' post='1258480']
Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
[/quote]

Steelers have a much bigger problem though. Ben liked Arians and Todd Haley isn't exactly a top OC. They also have even worse offensive line issues with their top 2 picks going to waste and a ton of injuries on the line. There receivers also are pretty bad with Mike Wallace showing the least effort on the field of any player I have ever seen. He literally won't run after catchable balls just because he's lazy.

Remember our first game against them this year when he caught the ball in the end zone but didn't get his second foot down. He could have easily done so but showed no effort.
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How long before we REALLY see a difference ?
Sunday?
next week ?
Final regular season game ?

If there is one, a post season?

No significant change until next year?
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[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1355265586' post='1258436']
It's been so obvious this year that Joe gets frustrated with the offense and with Cam whenever they take control away from him. He wants to go no-huddle. And from the behind the bench videos I've seen over the last two years, the players have to constantly come up to Cam and tell him what he's doing wrong because Cam doesn't see it.
[/quote]
that is true , i saw that behind the bench video, where boldin was telling CAM to "give me some over the middle", i think it was vs SD
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355272623' post='1258555']
There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
[/quote]
agree, especially in game adjustments, none.
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355272623' post='1258555']
There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
[/quote]


What is the evidence that Cam did good things? That we had several winning seasons? We never had more than an average offense in all that time. How do we know that it wasn't just the sheer talent of the players, particularly the defense (which [u]was[/u] coached well) that overcame Cams foolish schemes? Lets face it, for the last 4 years the defense has carried this team. And they were not under Cams control. I think that the team played well in spite of Cam, and that's how they racked up 4 winning seasons. This year when the salary cap butchered our talent was when Cams foolishness came to light. Good riddance.
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355270944' post='1258529']
Prosper this year or next? If all things stay the same from last year to this year, does it really say anything about Joe? Flacco is averaging over 300yds and 2TDs at home this year. With 2 of the next 3 games at home and the no huddle probably being featured heavily, would it really speak favorably of Flacco if he comes out and marches up and down the field on the Broncos and Giants?
[/quote]
With the Broncos fielding the 4th best Defense, and Von Miller (16) and Elvis Dumervil (8) leading the way in sacks against our banged-up OLine, it [b]will[/b] speak well of Flacco, if he's able to pass for 300 yards against their D... Of course, if Peyton marches up & down the field on our D, Caldwell will probably open it up, giving Flacco many more attempts.

One other thing of note: Flacco's three 300 yard home passing games were against the 21st (Cleveland), 28th (Oakland) and 29th (Patriots) pass defenses.

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355270944' post='1258529']
I think this Cam thing was a long time coming and guys like myself took long to see the writing on the wall. I do think Flacco has been held back by Cam, but i think people are putting too much into the whole, now the pressure falls on Flacco thing, at least for the remainder of this year. Now starting next year, yes because he'll be in his 6 year and the offense will be catered to fit him.
However, i expect nothing different from Flacco this year. I expect him to put up big number at home the next 2 weeks.
[/quote]

As others have said, I want to see if the new system - which will be more tweaks and better playcalling, IMO - will include some variation - slants across the middle, more motion... less vanilla... similar to New England's last night, against Houston. Brady hit several players IN STRIDE across the middle, and they gained lots of YAC.

Yes, it's time for Flacco to shine... or his future may dim, here in Baltimore. I think you're probably right, he'll do better with Caldwell - at least we hope so.
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355277576' post='1258637']
How long before we REALLY see a difference ?
Sunday?
next week ?
Final regular season game ?

If there is one, a post season?

No significant change until next year?
[/quote]

Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1355274241' post='1258586']
Steelers have a much bigger problem though. Ben liked Arians and Todd Haley isn't exactly a top OC. They also have even worse offensive line issues[size=5] with their top 2 picks going to waste [size=4]a[/size][/size]nd a ton of injuries on the line. There receivers also are pretty bad with Mike Wallace showing the least effort on the field of any player I have ever seen. He literally won't run after catchable balls just because he's lazy.

Remember our first game against them this year when he caught the ball in the end zone but didn't get his second foot down. He could have easily done so but showed no effort.
[/quote]
Not sure what the bolded comment meant...

Their 2nd round pick, OT Mike Adams, started the last 6 games until he was injured in the 2nd game vs the Ravens, at M & T. He had played in each of the first 10 games.

David DeCastro, their 1st round pick at OG, has missed the whole season with an injury, but the word is, he'll be starting this week against Dallas.
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]

Darn, that's one heck of a turnaround.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1355279321' post='1258694']
Not sure what the bolded comment meant...

Their 2nd round pick, OT Mike Adams, started the last 6 games until he was injured in the 2nd game vs the Ravens, at M & T. He had played in each of the first 10 games.

David DeCastro, their 1st round pick at OG, has missed the whole season with an injury, but the word is, he'll be starting this week against Dallas.
[/quote]

We were talking about how the Steelers haven't done well since switching to Todd Haley. The reasons I gave was that there O-line was way worse because DeCastro as you said, hasn't started a game and Mike Adams was awful while he started.

Obviously DeCastro will probably be a stud and Mike Adams has a lot of time to develop but in terms of just this season they were wasted picks and a major reason why the Steelers have been struggling.
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Larger issue is that Harbaugh waited this long to dump him.

Flacco had reached his ceiling under Cam. Joe has potential to be great, but not under Cam.

I'm sure the entire offense is glad to see him and his predictable offense shown the door.
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355281736' post='1258740']
Larger issue is that Harbaugh waited this long to dump him.

Flacco had reached his ceiling under Cam. Joe has potential to be great, but not under Cam.

I'm sure the entire offense is glad to see him and his predictable offense shown the door.
[/quote]

Only time will tell if it's Joe or Cam. I had huge expectations for Flacco this year from watching him move around in the pocket and rolling out as well vs Pats in AFCCG. Reminded me of a certain Packers QB. Don't really see that much this year
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]

Wow.
The effects travel much further than I expected.
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote] Animal Abuse!
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']
Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]
First read that as "stopped beating my wife" followed by "kicked the dog"
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355281736' post='1258740']
Larger issue is that Harbaugh waited this long to dump him.

Flacco had reached his ceiling under Cam. Joe has potential to be great, but not under Cam.

I'm sure the entire offense is glad to see him and his predictable offense shown the door.
[/quote]The sad this is that I'm not convinced Harbs wanted him gone. If it were up to him I think he'd still be here. It was probably Bisciotti.
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This article gives some (speculative, maybe?) insight: [url="http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--keeping-qb-joe-flacco-happy-meant-the-ravens-had-to-get-rid-of-coordinator-cam-cameron-180838938.html"]http://sports.yahoo....-180838938.html[/url]

[quote]In short, Cameron is a control freak. He has been for years. Ask people who were in Miami when he served as Dolphins head coach for just one season (2007) and you'll hear stories about how it was actually easier for people in the building to deal with Nick Saban than Cameron.[/quote]
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[quote name='Miami Hurricane' timestamp='1355284531' post='1258772']
Animal Abuse!
[/quote]
It's not abuse if his dogs name was cam cameron
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]
Similar results here
All my Bs went up to As
Finally Slept when cam Cameron was fired
Ran a 6:30 mile today
Haven't beat my younger bros since this morning (which for me is a long time)
Jk bout my bros.
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From the press conference, Harbs looked pissed when Cameron is fired; he definitely wants Cam to stay as long as he does, but when it winds down to either him or both, Harbs will save his own ends..... I wish Ozzie or Biscotti should have done this earlier.....
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355285793' post='1258792']
From the press conference, Harbs looked pissed when Cameron is fired; he definitely wants Cam to stay as long as he does, but when it winds down to either him or both, Harbs will save his own ends..... I wish Ozzie or Biscotti should have done this earlier.....
[/quote]Definitely. He was calling him a "great coach," among other things. Pretty high praise for someone you "fired."

Also, anyone notice how the players seemed largely nonplussed? Torrey on Twitter said "it's the business," no well-wishes added. Ed Dickson said "we needed a change." When asked, McKinnie said he wishes Cam well and that he did a "decent" job. Can't wait to hear the players on the podium tomorrow.

I really do wish Cam well though. I've heard he's a great guy. Unfortunately he's a terrible coordinator and the game has passed him by.
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355285793' post='1258792']
From the press conference, Harbs looked pissed when Cameron is fired; he definitely wants Cam to stay as long as he does, but when it winds down to either him or both, Harbs will save his own ends..... I wish Ozzie or Biscotti should have done this earlier.....
[/quote]
[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355286475' post='1258805']
[b]Definitely. He was calling him a "great coach," among other things. Pretty high praise for someone you "fired."[/b]

Also, anyone notice how the players seemed largely nonplussed? Torrey on Twitter said "it's the business," no well-wishes added. Ed Dickson said "we needed a change." When asked, McKinnie said he wishes Cam well and that he did a "decent" job. Can't wait to hear the players on the podium tomorrow.

I really do wish Cam well though. I've heard he's a great guy. Unfortunately he's a terrible coordinator and the game has passed him by.
[/quote]

Coach speak, friends! Coach speak!
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1355278715' post='1258678']

With the Broncos fielding the 4th best Defense, and Von Miller (16) and Elvis Dumervil (8) leading the way in sacks against our banged-up OLine, it [b]will[/b] speak well of Flacco, if he's able to pass for 300 yards against their D... Of course, if Peyton marches up & down the field on our D, Caldwell will probably open it up, giving Flacco many more attempts.

One other thing of note: Flacco's three 300 yard home passing games were against the 21st (Cleveland), 28th (Oakland) and 29th (Patriots) pass defenses.



As others have said, I want to see if the new system - which will be more tweaks and better playcalling, IMO - will include some variation - slants across the middle, more motion... less vanilla... similar to New England's last night, against Houston. Brady hit several players IN STRIDE across the middle, and they gained lots of YAC.

Yes, it's time for Flacco to shine... or his future may dim, here in Baltimore. I think you're probably right, he'll do better with Caldwell - at least we hope so.
[/quote]

Flacco also had big games against the Cowboys and Bengals who are 8th & 10th in pass defense respectively. His combined numbers in those games was: 38/55 519yds 69% 3TDs 0Ints 115.5 passer rating. Also note that those number could have been much bigger, but he sat most of the 4th quarter against the Bengals and the offense only ran 49 plays against DAL.

I agree that the pass rush might be a issues, but thats where game planing has to become a factor. You can't just take deep drops over and over against these guys, without setting those routes up. I look for lots of play action.

The Gaints have like the 27th ranked pass defense, so again if Flacco comes out and plays well these next two games, it doesn't say much to me. These next two games aren't make or break for Flacco or Caldwell imo. Also working for the Ravens is the fact that the Broncos really don't know what the Ravens will look like under Caldwell.

What will speak loudest to me is exact how Caldwell gets Flacco going. What kind of high percentage throws does he give Flacco early. How does he set up those play action shot plays, does he try to naturalize the speed run with screens and stretch runs.

But Flacco playing well won't be a statement of any sorts that he is or isn't worth a contract, because A. Caldwell will have only had the offense for a couple of weeks and while small adjustments can be made, different route concepts and audibles will take time to perfect. B. Flacco and the offense plays well at home.

Flacco is a Stud, he just has to show it consistently. Thats the duty Caldwell is charged with, but the next 3 games won't be enough to say yay or nay as to whether Flacco is the answer or not. However if he goes on a Rodgers, Brady, Brees or Eli type playoff run and actually win the Super Bowl, that'd say alot. Because while Flacco has had his moments and has come up clutch, he has never been consistently dominant in the playoffs. That would shut a lot of people up....hopefully

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[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1355265586' post='1258436']
It's been so obvious this year that Joe gets frustrated with the offense and with Cam whenever they take control away from him. He wants to go no-huddle.
[/quote]

Yup, Flacco has flat out said as much to the media recently (and in preseason as well)
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[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355287691' post='1258815']


Yup, Flacco has flat out said as much to the media recently (and in preseason as well)
[/quote]
Who wouldn't??? I would be pissed as well
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[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1355285793' post='1258792']
From the press conference, Harbs looked pissed when Cameron is fired; he definitely wants Cam to stay as long as he does, but when it winds down to either him or both, Harbs will save his own ends..... I wish Ozzie or Biscotti should have done this earlier.....
[/quote]

So the fact that his team just dropped 2 winnable games to backup QBs and they missed a opportunity to lock up the division had nothing to do with Harbs being pissed?

Some times you guys are just unbelievable. Harbs is said to be a really loyal guy and he just had to fire a 20+ year "friend". I guess he should have had a huge grin on his face?

At the end of the day, what does it matter, why, who, or what was the reason behind Cam's firing. First you guys bash him for not firing Cam, who by the way was signed to a 1 year deal, last time i checked Harbs isn't the owner. Now you have people saying the big issue is how long it took and Harbs seemingly being mad the decision was made. I guess next he'll be called a lair for saying it was his decision and the 1st punt, he'll be called foolish for choosing the guy with no play calling experience.
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355288895' post='1258826']


So the fact that his team just dropped 2 winnable games to backup QBs and they missed a opportunity to lock up the division had nothing to do with Harbs being pissed?

Some times you guys are just unbelievable. Harbs is said to be a really loyal guy and he just had to fire a 20+ year "friend". I guess he should have had a huge grin on his face?

At the end of the day, what does it matter, why, who, or what was the reason behind Cam's firing. First you guys bash him for not firing Cam, who by the way was signed to a 1 year deal, last time i checked Harbs isn't the owner. Now you have people saying the big issue is how long it took and Harbs seemingly being mad the decision was made. I guess next he'll be called a lair for saying it was his decision and the 1st punt, he'll be called foolish for choosing the guy with no play calling experience.
[/quote]
Then they will blame him for global warming!
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This WHOLE mess will get worse before it gets better.....Trust me.

Cam didn't cause Joe's "Kyle Boller" pocket behavior last Sunday.
Cam didn't cause Joe to consistently "Under Throw" Torrey.
Cam didn't cause Joe to hold the ball with one hand in traffic.
Cam didn't cause Joe to hold the ball instead of throwing it away.
Cam didn't cause the Offensive line to just plain suck.
Cam didn't cause Ray Rice to rarely follow Leach while blocking.
Cam didn't cause the Defense to stop finishing games (Steeler's & Redskins)

This team has many many problems that will not be repaired with an Offensive coordinator dismissal.

Deer in the headlights Caldwell is NOT the short term answer.

Desert
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355287128' post='1258812']
Flacco also had big games against the Cowboys and Bengals who are 8th & 10th in pass defense respectively. His combined numbers in those games was: 38/55 519yds 69% 3TDs 0Ints 115.5 passer rating. Also note that those number could have been much bigger, but he sat most of the 4th quarter against the Bengals and the offense only ran 49 plays against DAL.

I agree that the pass rush might be a issues, but thats where game planing has to become a factor. You can't just take deep drops over and over against these guys, without setting those routes up. I look for lots of play action.

The Gaints have like the 27th ranked pass defense, so again if Flacco comes out and plays well these next two games, it doesn't say much to me. These next two games aren't make or break for Flacco or Caldwell imo. Also working for the Ravens is the fact that the Broncos really don't know what the Ravens will look like under Caldwell.

What will speak loudest to me is exact how Caldwell gets Flacco going. What kind of high percentage throws does he give Flacco early. How does he set up those play action shot plays, does he try to naturalize the speed run with screens and stretch runs.

But Flacco playing well won't be a statement of any sorts that he is or isn't worth a contract, because A. Caldwell will have only had the offense for a couple of weeks and while small adjustments can be made, different route concepts and audibles will take time to perfect. B. Flacco and the offense plays well at home.

Flacco is a Stud, he just has to show it consistently. Thats the duty Caldwell is charged with, but the next 3 games won't be enough to say yay or nay as to whether Flacco is the answer or not. However if he goes on a Rodgers, Brady, Brees or Eli type playoff run and actually win the Super Bowl, that'd say alot. Because while Flacco has had his moments and has come up clutch, he has never been consistently dominant in the playoffs. That would shut a lot of people up....hopefully
[/quote]

Lots of good points. Yes, despite the bashing here, it's plainly obvious that Flacco has the skills, the mental makeup and the decision making capability to be a very good long-term QB. It's also obvious he needs some tweaking - he needs to improve at finding his 2nd target when the first one's covered, he needs a better pocket awareness and to shift in the pocket to evade the rush; however, these are fixable, and Caldwell may be the Flacco-whisperer.

I also agree that these last 3 games will not determine Flacco's long-term status with the Ravens - they may franchise him for a year, but he'll be a Raven for life... though a SB would firm up his support, and give him confidence. At best, Caldwell will give Joe the freedom to audible, to run the no-huddle, and some variation in the game plans.

Sadly, with the OLine hurting, and the D stumbling lately, Flacco could have a great game the next 2 weeks, and we still may lose - Peyton is hot and Eli can turn it on - and some people here would still blame Joe. Flacco had excellent stats against the 'Skins - completed 76% of his passes - yet talk-radio callers blamed him equally with the defense. Joe may need a SB to win everyone long-term here.
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I was listening to the Bernard Pollard show last night and he flat out said, "I would be lying, if I said I was surprised"

Players saw this coming. I am sure the rift started after the Texans game when Harbs and the team and coordinators went at it. We all heard about that I think two weeks ago.

Not a good sign. The team is falling apart and there is a lot of animosity. Hopefully getting Cam out of here will ease the tensions but really, the team is lost for Harbs.

I am a fan and want us to win as much as the next guy but I do not have confidence in this team like I did last season. Just too much to overcome.

Injuries on defense
Ugly Joe rearing his head
Poor O-line play and now Yanda is down
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[quote name='Desert' timestamp='1355296577' post='1258874']
This WHOLE mess will get worse before it gets better.....Trust me.

Cam didn't cause Joe's "Kyle Boller" pocket behavior last Sunday.
Cam didn't cause Joe to consistently "Under Throw" Torrey.
Cam didn't cause Joe to hold the ball with one hand in traffic.
Cam didn't cause Joe to hold the ball instead of throwing it away.
Cam didn't cause the Offensive line to just plain suck.
Cam didn't cause Ray Rice to rarely follow Leach while blocking.
Cam didn't cause the Defense to stop finishing games (Steeler's & Redskins)

This team has many many problems that will not be repaired with an Offensive coordinator dismissal.

Deer in the headlights Caldwell is NOT the short term answer.

Desert
[/quote]


Anyone who believes that firing Cam will turn this team into the 2013 SB champ could be considered delusional. That goes without saying. But anyone who doesnt believe that his firing is a good first step is just as delusional. Sure we have a bunch of problems on the offense, but the biggest and easiest to correct was firing Cam. The rest will require a new OC to create and actually use more aggressive plays that are built around the personel that we have, practice, stressing the fundamentals, moving players to positions that they are more confortable and better at playing, maybe replacing some players etc. The roadblock to our offense getting better was Cam. With that now removed hopefully we can and will move forward.
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Cam was not the solution but he wasn't the entire problem with this offense either. I keep reading it was Cam who took the no huddle away from Flacco, it's simply not true and apologetic Flacco chatter at best.

The reason the no huddle has gone by the wayside was the poor performance from Flacco and this offense as a unit. Just too many misfires and three and outs which put additional pressure on the defensive unit and (no way to tell but)probably hurt some bodies on defense because of being on the field for so much time.

We'll see in the coming weeks how much of it was on Cam and how much of it was on Flacco. If I had to bet the Flacco fans that happen to follow this organization are fermenting excuses for Flacco's weaknesses in his game as I type this.
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[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1355263773' post='1258389']
I was reading the rumor post [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-1211-Rumors-Surrounding-Cam-Camerons-Dismissal/5e2ad17f-abed-43fc-9cef-75e0d2b5b4bd"]http://www.baltimore...ef-75e0d2b5b4bd[/url]

and it seems like these guys are on to something. Think about it. We bring in Jim Zorn just two years after moderate progression with Flacco. Flacco and Zorn form a good relationship which Cam supposedly dislikes and Zorn is fired the next year.


When Zorn was fired it was the first time we heard Flacco really speak out. I'm sure this widened the rift with Cam Cameron. Has there been this underlying dislike towards Cam by much of the players and coaching staff this long? I think it's very possible.

I have yet to see a tweet by a player wishing Cam good luck or someone who seemed surprised other than Suggs. [b]Everyone seems to have moved on pretty fast and isn't looking back.[/b]
[/quote]

I think Big Mac said something to the effect of, 'It's harsh, it's a business,'. That's how the guys are probably handling it. I truly doubt anyone 'hated' Cam Cameron on the team even if they disagreed with his style.
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355278512' post='1258673']
What is the evidence that Cam did good things? That we had several winning seasons? We never had more than an average offense in all that time. [b]How do we know that it wasn't just the sheer talent of the players, particularly the defense (which [u]was[/u] coached well) that overcame Cams foolish schemes?[/b] Lets face it, for the last 4 years the defense has carried this team. And they were not under Cams control. I think that the team played well in spite of Cam, and that's how they racked up 4 winning seasons. This year when the salary cap butchered our talent was when Cams foolishness came to light. Good riddance.
[/quote]

That bolded sentence is the stuff I hate. People can't blame Cam for the offensive stagnating and not the talent, but then when the offense does well take away credit from Cam and give it to the talent. Gimme a break. It wasn't 'sheer' talent, because aside from Little Ray and Joe, what did we really have until this year? Nothing but old men, rookies and guys playing outside their natural positions. We have had a skeleton crew on offense for the past several years. Cam was apart of helping us win games, and that's that. He made horrible decisions yes and his firing was probably at least two years in the making but let's give credit where it's due.
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