Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

dhstandard

Larger Issue behind Cam Firing?

67 posts in this topic

I was reading the rumor post [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-1211-Rumors-Surrounding-Cam-Camerons-Dismissal/5e2ad17f-abed-43fc-9cef-75e0d2b5b4bd"]http://www.baltimore...ef-75e0d2b5b4bd[/url]

and it seems like these guys are on to something. Think about it. We bring in Jim Zorn just two years after moderate progression with Flacco. Flacco and Zorn form a good relationship which Cam supposedly dislikes and Zorn is fired the next year.


When Zorn was fired it was the first time we heard Flacco really speak out. I'm sure this widened the rift with Cam Cameron. Has there been this underlying dislike towards Cam by much of the players and coaching staff this long? I think it's very possible.

I have yet to see a tweet by a player wishing Cam good luck or someone who seemed surprised other than Suggs. Everyone seems to have moved on pretty fast and isn't looking back.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It seems like there has always been dislike for Cam from the offense, especially from Flacco.

After all, how can you like the guy who holds the key to your handcuffs?
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1355263773' post='1258389']
I was reading the rumor post [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Late-For-Work-1211-Rumors-Surrounding-Cam-Camerons-Dismissal/5e2ad17f-abed-43fc-9cef-75e0d2b5b4bd"]http://www.baltimore...ef-75e0d2b5b4bd[/url]

and it seems like these guys are on to something. Think about it. We bring in Jim Zorn just two years after moderate progression with Flacco. Flacco and Zorn get a good relationship and which Cam supposedly dislikes and Zorn is fired the next year.


When Zorn was fired it was the first time we heard Flacco really speak out. I'm sure this widened the rift with Cam Cameron. Has there been this underlying dislike towards Cam by much of the players and coaching staff this long? I think it's very possible.

I have yet to see a tweet by a player wishing Cam good luck or someone who seemed surprised other than Suggs. Everyone seems to have moved on pretty fast and isn't looking back.
[/quote]

It had been rumored for a while that the players do not get along with Cam Cameron. It was most evident in Joe, going back to a shouting match with Cam a few years ago.

Had no idea he didn't get along with coaches either!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355264029' post='1258393']
[b]It had been rumored for a while that the players do not get along with Cam Cameron[/b]. It was most evident in Joe, going back to a shouting match with Cam a few years ago.

Had no idea he didn't get along with coaches either!
[/quote]


Others players have since come out and said Cam thinks everything he says is right. Willie Anderson and Daniel Wilcox to name a few.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray Rice wished him luck. I'm sure our players are being asked to keep things tight lipped.

[quote]“I thought he was a great coach and he’s done a lot for me the last few years,” Rice said. “I don’t know the pressure of being an offensive coordinator, but I do know the pressure to win, and we’ve done a lot of winning over the last few years with him. I’m sure he’ll get a job elsewhere. I definitely wish the guy the best in his career.”[/quote]

from http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ray-Rice-Reacts-To-Offensive-Coordinator-Change/d5e2dece-6f9b-4087-9320-f876046a1b67
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1355264140' post='1258394']
Others players have since come out and said Cam thinks everything he says is right. Willie Anderson and Daniel Wilcox to name a few.
[/quote]

Cam is hardheaded and never thought he was wrong. Im guessing it was a my way or the highway philosophy .
I doubt IMO if he listened to his players much and from the argument with Harbs on Sunday,he maybe wasn't listening to him either.

Good riddance .I guarantee you Caldwell already has more respect in less then a year from his players then Cam
had in five .
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1355264231' post='1258395']
Ray Rice wished him luck. I'm sure our players are being asked to keep things tight lipped.



from [url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Ray-Rice-Reacts-To-Offensive-Coordinator-Change/d5e2dece-6f9b-4087-9320-f876046a1b67"]http://www.baltimore...20-f876046a1b67[/url]
[/quote]


But Ray Rice was also the same one fuming after the Redskins game and he has said numerous times about not being able to finish games and giving up points. I think we know what he really means by that.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's been so obvious this year that Joe gets frustrated with the offense and with Cam whenever they take control away from him. He wants to go no-huddle. And from the behind the bench videos I've seen over the last two years, the players have to constantly come up to Cam and tell him what he's doing wrong because Cam doesn't see it.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It seems like Joe got along well with Hue Jackson, Jim Zorn and Jim Caldwell, so apparently it's not Flacco that is the personality problem here. I suspect there was a little more tension between Flacco and Cam then anyone's admitting.

But, like Mike Preston said, it's all on Flacco now - he doesn't have anyone left to blame, if he doesn't prosper now...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='woodson2000' timestamp='1355267662' post='1258480']
Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
[/quote]
Well, to be fair, ben is a pompous moron while Todd Haley is really creepy! And Ben is elite (though his SBs have nothing to do with him, he was just their to throw the ball)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1355267977' post='1258485']
It seems like Joe got along well with Hue Jackson, Jim Zorn and Jim Caldwell, so apparently it's not Flacco that is the personality problem here. I suspect there was a little more tension between Flacco and Cam then anyone's admitting.

But, like Mike Preston said, it's all on Flacco now - he doesn't have anyone left to blame, if he doesn't prosper now...
[/quote]

Prosper this year or next? If all things stay the same from last year to this year, does it really say anything about Joe? Flacco is averaging over 300yds and 2TDs at home this year. With 2 of the next 3 games at home and the no huddle probably being featured heavily, would it really speak favorably of Flacco if he comes out and marches up and down the field on the Broncos and Giants?

I think this Cam thing was a long time coming and guys like myself took long to see the writing on the wall. I do think Flacco has been held back by Cam, but i think people are putting too much into the whole, now the pressure falls on Flacco thing, at least for the remainder of this year. Now starting next year, yes because he'll be in his 6 year and the offense will be catered to fit him.
However, i expect nothing different from Flacco this year. I expect him to put up big number at home the next 2 weeks.
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355270621' post='1258526']
Well, to be fair, ben is a pompous moron while Todd Haley is really creepy! And Ben is elite (though his SBs have nothing to do with him, he was just their to throw the ball)
[/quote]


Ben isnt elite,hes just really good.The elite qbs are Brady,Rodgers,Manning and Brees.Roethlisberger and Eli are a step below that.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let's not forget the time Harbs stopped an apparent 'mutiny' in the locker room. I highly doubt that Cam wasn't a topic of discussion there. I'm assuming it was a kind of 'be-nice-to-him-because-coach-says-too' thing.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='woodson2000' timestamp='1355267662' post='1258480']
Time will tell all! Is Flacco in the top 5 now that Cam gone?????? We will see. Sometimes the grass is no greener,just asks the Squeelers, who had been crying for Arians head for years,is there O any better without him,3 first downs in the first half with the Chargers says NO!!!! Food for thought.
[/quote]

Steelers have a much bigger problem though. Ben liked Arians and Todd Haley isn't exactly a top OC. They also have even worse offensive line issues with their top 2 picks going to waste and a ton of injuries on the line. There receivers also are pretty bad with Mike Wallace showing the least effort on the field of any player I have ever seen. He literally won't run after catchable balls just because he's lazy.

Remember our first game against them this year when he caught the ball in the end zone but didn't get his second foot down. He could have easily done so but showed no effort.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How long before we REALLY see a difference ?
Sunday?
next week ?
Final regular season game ?

If there is one, a post season?

No significant change until next year?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1355265586' post='1258436']
It's been so obvious this year that Joe gets frustrated with the offense and with Cam whenever they take control away from him. He wants to go no-huddle. And from the behind the bench videos I've seen over the last two years, the players have to constantly come up to Cam and tell him what he's doing wrong because Cam doesn't see it.
[/quote]
that is true , i saw that behind the bench video, where boldin was telling CAM to "give me some over the middle", i think it was vs SD
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355272623' post='1258555']
There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
[/quote]
agree, especially in game adjustments, none.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355272623' post='1258555']
There are a LOT of reasons that Cam could/should have been fired.

1) the clear friction with several players, including Joe

2) the strange game plans

3) the lack of adjustments

4) according to Jaws, a big reason was his refusal to use modern offensive tactics i.e. route-running concepts, etc.

5) and finally, sometimes offenses just stagnate, or really any side of the ball just stagnates, after hearing the same voice for too long. Ultimately I think that's what did Billick in, his losing control over the locker room and his inability to inspire confidence in many of the players. Like I said, Cam did good things here, helped this offense as much as he could (up until last year, I'd say), but now it's time to incorporate new strategies, use our players to the best of their abilities, and take this offense to the next level in the coming seasons.
[/quote]


What is the evidence that Cam did good things? That we had several winning seasons? We never had more than an average offense in all that time. How do we know that it wasn't just the sheer talent of the players, particularly the defense (which [u]was[/u] coached well) that overcame Cams foolish schemes? Lets face it, for the last 4 years the defense has carried this team. And they were not under Cams control. I think that the team played well in spite of Cam, and that's how they racked up 4 winning seasons. This year when the salary cap butchered our talent was when Cams foolishness came to light. Good riddance.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355270944' post='1258529']
Prosper this year or next? If all things stay the same from last year to this year, does it really say anything about Joe? Flacco is averaging over 300yds and 2TDs at home this year. With 2 of the next 3 games at home and the no huddle probably being featured heavily, would it really speak favorably of Flacco if he comes out and marches up and down the field on the Broncos and Giants?
[/quote]
With the Broncos fielding the 4th best Defense, and Von Miller (16) and Elvis Dumervil (8) leading the way in sacks against our banged-up OLine, it [b]will[/b] speak well of Flacco, if he's able to pass for 300 yards against their D... Of course, if Peyton marches up & down the field on our D, Caldwell will probably open it up, giving Flacco many more attempts.

One other thing of note: Flacco's three 300 yard home passing games were against the 21st (Cleveland), 28th (Oakland) and 29th (Patriots) pass defenses.

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355270944' post='1258529']
I think this Cam thing was a long time coming and guys like myself took long to see the writing on the wall. I do think Flacco has been held back by Cam, but i think people are putting too much into the whole, now the pressure falls on Flacco thing, at least for the remainder of this year. Now starting next year, yes because he'll be in his 6 year and the offense will be catered to fit him.
However, i expect nothing different from Flacco this year. I expect him to put up big number at home the next 2 weeks.
[/quote]

As others have said, I want to see if the new system - which will be more tweaks and better playcalling, IMO - will include some variation - slants across the middle, more motion... less vanilla... similar to New England's last night, against Houston. Brady hit several players IN STRIDE across the middle, and they gained lots of YAC.

Yes, it's time for Flacco to shine... or his future may dim, here in Baltimore. I think you're probably right, he'll do better with Caldwell - at least we hope so.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355277576' post='1258637']
How long before we REALLY see a difference ?
Sunday?
next week ?
Final regular season game ?

If there is one, a post season?

No significant change until next year?
[/quote]

Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1355274241' post='1258586']
Steelers have a much bigger problem though. Ben liked Arians and Todd Haley isn't exactly a top OC. They also have even worse offensive line issues[size=5] with their top 2 picks going to waste [size=4]a[/size][/size]nd a ton of injuries on the line. There receivers also are pretty bad with Mike Wallace showing the least effort on the field of any player I have ever seen. He literally won't run after catchable balls just because he's lazy.

Remember our first game against them this year when he caught the ball in the end zone but didn't get his second foot down. He could have easily done so but showed no effort.
[/quote]
Not sure what the bolded comment meant...

Their 2nd round pick, OT Mike Adams, started the last 6 games until he was injured in the 2nd game vs the Ravens, at M & T. He had played in each of the first 10 games.

David DeCastro, their 1st round pick at OG, has missed the whole season with an injury, but the word is, he'll be starting this week against Dallas.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]

Darn, that's one heck of a turnaround.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1355279321' post='1258694']
Not sure what the bolded comment meant...

Their 2nd round pick, OT Mike Adams, started the last 6 games until he was injured in the 2nd game vs the Ravens, at M & T. He had played in each of the first 10 games.

David DeCastro, their 1st round pick at OG, has missed the whole season with an injury, but the word is, he'll be starting this week against Dallas.
[/quote]

We were talking about how the Steelers haven't done well since switching to Todd Haley. The reasons I gave was that there O-line was way worse because DeCastro as you said, hasn't started a game and Mike Adams was awful while he started.

Obviously DeCastro will probably be a stud and Mike Adams has a lot of time to develop but in terms of just this season they were wasted picks and a major reason why the Steelers have been struggling.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Larger issue is that Harbaugh waited this long to dump him.

Flacco had reached his ceiling under Cam. Joe has potential to be great, but not under Cam.

I'm sure the entire offense is glad to see him and his predictable offense shown the door.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355281736' post='1258740']
Larger issue is that Harbaugh waited this long to dump him.

Flacco had reached his ceiling under Cam. Joe has potential to be great, but not under Cam.

I'm sure the entire offense is glad to see him and his predictable offense shown the door.
[/quote]

Only time will tell if it's Joe or Cam. I had huge expectations for Flacco this year from watching him move around in the pocket and rolling out as well vs Pats in AFCCG. Reminded me of a certain Packers QB. Don't really see that much this year
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote]

Wow.
The effects travel much further than I expected.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1355278872' post='1258684']


Immediately!

Im sleeping better!
Lost a few pounds with a better diet!
Stopped berating my wife incessantly!
Havent kicked my dog since Sunday!

List goes on....
[/quote] Animal Abuse!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites