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edsopafan

Two Hot Seats Remain

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Two HOT SEATS REMAIN.

1. John Harbaugh. He took 2 years to make this decision. Jon too has shown a propensity for not managing time clock well.

2. Joe Flacco. He needs to develop and show his wares the remaining 3 games and the playoffs. He wants money and the Ravens need to know IF he can be our QB for the future. I looked at the pay scales for the QBS for 2013. Joe's request would be good for $1-18 mil IF he was on the high end of his performance in consistent game production. This is not true what were the reason. So he as 4 games at least to show his ability. If he would take $12-14 I would have no issue. But if he still wants $16 plus with his game performance, I would franchise him and look at maybe a draft for qb.

Where is Ozzie in the move?


Off-season should be interesting.
-11

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Unless Joe really outperforms himself, he is not worth the money he was asking. Now that Canm is fired, I am hoping he proves he is worth that much and more. Wouldn't that be nice?
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This is a deciding time to see if Flacco is at fault or if it really was a cam issue which i doubt. Right now joe has been shown the Ravens think he is the man. Now he needs to prove it. We cannot franchise him at any point without losing a few other players so he needs to step it up.
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If not Joe Flacco then who? Is there a QB in college we can get, or is there someone sitting on someone else's roster? It took us nearly 12 years to find a young QB with Flacco's talent. The result is 4 years of playoffs and near misses.
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Harbs has lead this team to 2 AFC Championship games, and the playoffs every season since arriving, and what looks like to continue that trend as well. A winning record for what? 5 straight seasons? I can't see Harbs being on the hot seat for a winning record.
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[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355258413' post='1258265']
If not Joe Flacco then who? Is there a QB in college we can get, or is there someone sitting on someone else's roster? It took us nearly 12 years to find a young QB with Flacco's talent. The result is 4 years of playoffs and near misses.
[/quote]

we also shouldve canned kyle boller after his 1st year, but we didnt. Forcing ourselves to pay a player that is not worth his value and getting rid of key players will be a disaster.
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[quote name='edsopafan' timestamp='1355249127' post='1258072']
Two HOT SEATS REMAIN.

1. John Harbaugh. He took 2 years to make this decision. Jon too has shown a propensity for not managing time clock well.
[/quote]

I highly doubt we'd fire a coach who led us to soon-to-be five straight playoff appearances for something as miniscule as clock management, which I actually think he does pretty well.
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Cam Cameron was gone beginning of last year but they elected to keep him due to the lock out.

And if not Flacco...who? It's not as if we were a qb factory prior to Joe.
Sometimes I honestly wonder if the people in here actually watched the Ravens prior to 2008.

*Perhaps fond memories of Billick and Boller?????
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Dean Pees won't be here next year but it's not all his fault, Also there is no way we get rid of flacco!
Flacco is a good quarterback but is really inconsistant but has the chance to be great.
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[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355258413' post='1258265']
[b]If not Joe Flacco then who?[/b] Is there a QB in college we can get, or is there someone sitting on someone else's roster? It took us nearly 12 years to find a young QB with Flacco's talent. The result is 4 years of playoffs and near misses.
[/quote]


Lol you'll realize quick that it doesn't matter who we replace Joe with, as long as Joe is here, some of these people won't be happy. We could bring Dilfer out of retirement, and people wouldn't care, as long as Joe's gone.
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[quote name='RavenzAllDay' timestamp='1355260554' post='1258305']
[b]Dean Pees won't be here next year but it's not all his fault[/b], Also there is no way we get rid of flacco!
Flacco is a good quarterback but is really inconsistant but has the chance to be great.
[/quote]


Yes he will be. I highly doubt we fire him in the offseason. Remember, we kept Mattison around for 3 years. Not to mention, Pees can't help that we've been dealing with injuries over and over again.
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The Ravens have had to replace some big time names, JJ, Ray, Ngata, Suggs, Webb and Jimmy, either do to injury or FA at some point this season. No longer can people say Harbs, like Flacco is only winning because of a great defense, but this defense is far from it.

Harbs has lead this predominantly young team to what seems to be it's 2nd straight Divison crown, what could be the 3rd straight 12 win season and it's 5th straight playoff appearance. If his seat is hot, it's only because the heat at the Castle is broken and Harbs has a seat warmer.

Flacco? On the hot seat? What's wrong with some of you guys? Is he perfect, No, but he's a winner. The Ravens as a franchise hasn't had enough good QB play or overall success to be this spoiled to say that Flacco and Harbs should be replaced because they haven't won a Super Bowl.

Flacco led a championship caliber drive against the Redskins and should have put that game away. If that sounds familiar, it should because Flacco does it often. To say this guy is on the hot seat is crazy.
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355264830' post='1258412']
The Ravens have had to replace some big time names, JJ, Ray, Ngata, Suggs, Webb and Jimmy, either do to injury or FA at some point this season. No longer can people say Harbs, like Flacco is only winning because of a great defense, but this defense is far from it.

Harbs has lead this predominantly young team to what seems to be it's 2nd straight Divison crown, what could be the 3rd straight 12 win season and it's 5th straight playoff appearance. If his seat is hot, it's only because the heat at the Castle is broken and Harbs has a seat warmer.

Flacco? On the hot seat? What's wrong with some of you guys? Is he perfect, No, but he's a winner. The Ravens as a franchise hasn't had enough good QB play or overall success to be this spoiled to say that Flacco and Harbs should be replaced because they haven't won a Super Bowl.

Flacco led a championship caliber drive against the Redskins and should have put that game away. If that sounds familiar, it should because Flacco does it often. To say this guy is on the hot seat is crazy.
[/quote]

After looking at Arnie's stats on Qb fumbles(a big complaint against Joe cause hes not throwing alot of picks) id say Joe is pretty damn good.
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[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1355261442' post='1258325']



Yes he will be. I highly doubt we fire him in the offseason. Remember, we kept Mattison around for 3 years. Not to mention, Pees can't help that we've been dealing with injuries over and over again.
[/quote]
You're probably right, but like i said it's not all his fault . I wouldn't be against it completely, but there are better options out there.
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Raven nation is really so spoiled when it comes to winning. You've got people on here baying for Harbaugh's blood, meanwhile there are teams like the Steelers who, at a worse record than us, wouldn't bad mouth Lord Tomlin if they were paid to. I really want John to win the big one so everyone will just be quiet about his 'clock management'.
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Uh, no. Flacco is not on the hot seat. He is the QB and he's going to get paid unless he pulls whatever Ratliff pulled on Jones on Biscotti, and even then that's doubtful. Those who hate Flacco need to realize he's not going anywhere yet. I'm not some Flacco cheerleader. I will tell you what he does wrong, which is plenty. But I will not sit here and say he is on the hot seat. He's not.

Caldwell is on the hot seat, but not even by much. He's more auditioning for a higher job as opposed to losing a job. I like him better as interim and find a permanent solution and let him develop Flacco.

Perhaps Moeller. He could be on the hot seat.

But with all this hot seat talk let me ask: who would be better than what we have? There aren't a ton of options out there.
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I'd keep Flacco, I think he's great for us, obviously he's not the best, but everytime I think of Flacco, I reel those videos in my head of me watching that clean throw to lee evans last year, or to torrey smith at Pit's and so on, I guess I'm just a positive person because everyone makes mistakes, even the best, all the negativity towards him does not help.. Let's just see how he does the rest of the year(which shouldn't be judged much because of the sudden change) and then next year WITHOUT Cam
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355272970' post='1258563']
Raven nation is really so spoiled when it comes to winning. You've got people on here baying for Harbaugh's blood, meanwhile there are teams like the Steelers who, at a worse record than us, wouldn't bad mouth Lord Tomlin if they were paid to. I really want John to win the big one so everyone will just be quiet about his 'clock management'.
[/quote]

His clock management and challenge/timeout usage are probably some or the worse in the NFL. There is also the fact lord Lord Tomlin has 2 sb appearances and a win. Then the fact his team has injury issues similar to ours with less talent and still manages to beat us and perform better on a week to week basis. If Tomlin said to our team we're having a padded practice and they to mutiny he's suspending guys especially after a piss poor performance in a blow out loss. He also probably doesn't keep Cam around. Say what you want but hrs holds himself coaches and players accountable.
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The real hot seats:

1.Oher.Hes been getting abused over the past 2 or 3 games and was responsible for the 2 fumbles over the past 2.

2.Ed Reed.Hes in a contract year and hes been invisible and missing tackles this year.I almost thought we gave him the past few weeks off lol jk.If he wants a nice contract after the season is over hes going to have to show us hes not trending downward.
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[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355258413' post='1258265']
If not Joe Flacco then who? Is there a QB in college we can get, or is there someone sitting on someone else's roster? It took us nearly 12 years to find a young QB with Flacco's talent. The result is 4 years of playoffs and near misses.
[/quote]

Why dont more people know this ?
I mean its really, really, really, really, really obvious.

If you think Joe is getting cut you are out of your mind.
Joe might not get the contract he wants, but he is going to get a worthy contract. bet on it.
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let joe go and live with a matt moore next year. bomb the season with someone like him and hope, and i mean hope, that the 2014 qb class is good. sounds like a great strategy.

We will be paying this man no matter how he plays. some people can't deal with it !
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[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1355276926' post='1258629']
let joe go and live with a matt moore next year. bomb the season with someone like him and hope, and i mean hope, that the 2014 qb class is good. sounds like a great strategy.

We will be paying this man no matter how he plays. some people can't deal with it !
[/quote]
Dude are you crazy??? You do NOT start Moore if you want a high or #1 pick. You start Painter.
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[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1355274476' post='1258593']


His clock management and challenge/timeout usage are probably some or the worse in the NFL. There is also the fact lord Lord Tomlin has 2 sb appearances and a win. Then the fact his team has injury issues similar to ours with less talent and still manages to beat us and perform better on a week to week basis. If Tomlin said to our team we're having a padded practice and they to mutiny he's suspending guys especially after a piss poor performance in a blow out loss. He also probably doesn't keep Cam around. Say what you want but hrs holds himself coaches and players accountable.
[/quote]

How do the Steelers perform better on a week to week basis? They just had 8 turnovers in a lost to the Browns. They just got beat down at home against a team with a lame duck coach, who had to travel 2 time zones.

But more importantly. Tomlin got Tebowed in the playoffs. Maybe he should have unleashed Hell and the Steelers would have won.
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355276090' post='1258622']


Why dont more people know this ?
I mean its really, really, really, really, really obvious.

If you think Joe is getting cut you are out of your mind.
Joe might not get the contract he wants, but he is going to get a worthy contract. bet on it.
[/quote]
I think I accidentally attracted my old buddies down in Jacksonville and some EXTREME die hard raider and 69er fans who want him.... They are crossing their fingers
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[quote name='TT_05_Stang' timestamp='1355257936' post='1258255']
I would have thought Pees would be #1, and most of our OL...

I wonder if people even watch the game
[/quote]
They watch it, unfortuantly alot of people just don't understand it.
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355289973' post='1258836']


How do the Steelers perform better on a week to week basis? They just had 8 turnovers in a lost to the Browns. They just got beat down at home against a team with a lame duck coach, who had to travel 2 time zones.

But more importantly. Tomlin got Tebowed in the playoffs. Maybe he should have unleashed Hell and the Steelers would have won.
[/quote]

He's beaten our team twice on his way to 2 super bowls. I don't think you can blame him for the crap defensive game plan that got them torched in the playoffs. You want to talk about losses, how about the Eagles getting one of their 4 w's against us? And for as bad as you try to make that team sound they beat us at home with a 3rd string qb and numerous injuries on both sides of the ball. Let me repeat that Joe Flacco was outplayed by a 3rd string qb at home. Their o line is worse than ours as is their secondary yet they still usually manage to contain teams passing attacks. Yes he "Unleashed Hell" only to miss the playoffs but for the most part they handle their business in not only the regular season but the post season. I think we begin to dominate this division but that relies on the arm of Joe. You can think what you want but I think player for player we are a more talented all around team which has helped make Harbaugh look better than he is. Also, even with the 8 turnovers(most fumbles by backs which a coach doesn't have control over) they still only lost by 4. I'd love to see what would happen to this team if we managed to give the rock away that much in game.
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Let me ask you guys. If you were in Dean Pees' shoes, what would you do?

Lets go over a list of injuries for this year:

Ray Lewis - Not playing as well as he once was, but still a force to reckon with
Ed Reed - Clearly not playing at his high level
Suggs - DPOY. Come on man.
Webb - Probably one of the best corners in the league
Ngata - Was playing injured for a good chunk of the season
Jimmy Smith - People hate, but this kid isn't nearly as bad as hes made out to be. Important corner depth.

Hell, according to the injury report, Pollard and Chykie Brown were also injured,l despite full participation

Our defense is torn apart. Maybe Pees is just working with what he has. He's made mistakes, sure, but overall, look at his work and realize that hes doing a lot more than I could reasonably expect with what he has.
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[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1355291196' post='1258845']
They watch it, unfortuantly alot of people just don't understand it.
[/quote]

i think is because following the ball [and not what the men (are supposed to) do] is so hypnotic
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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355272970' post='1258563']
there are teams like the Steelers who, at a worse record than us, wouldn't bad mouth Lord Tomlin if they were paid to.
[/quote]
Hah. That is so true!
Funny, isn't it???
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While I don't feel Harbaugh is on the hot seat, I think some of his duties might be. Front office might step in and make some assistant coach/coordinator decisions for him.

Ozzie has an interesting offseason and he has to realize in this draft that we need to trade up, not back. Let Ed Reed hit free agency, fix the trenches (LT, C, NT, DE), find a backer and find an offensive coordinator.

Maybe going to a 4-3 would be better? Suggs-Ngata-McPhee-Kruger? Ellerbe-Lewis/McClain-Upshaw?
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355264830' post='1258412']
The Ravens have had to replace some big time names, JJ, Ray, Ngata, Suggs, Webb and Jimmy, either do to injury or FA at some point this season. No longer can people say Harbs, like Flacco is only winning because of a great defense, but this defense is far from it.

Harbs has lead this predominantly young team to what seems to be it's 2nd straight Divison crown, what could be the 3rd straight 12 win season and it's 5th straight playoff appearance. If his seat is hot, it's only because the heat at the Castle is broken and Harbs has a seat warmer.

Flacco? On the hot seat? What's wrong with some of you guys? Is he perfect, No, but he's a winner. The Ravens as a franchise hasn't had enough good QB play or overall success to be this spoiled to say that Flacco and Harbs should be replaced because they haven't won a Super Bowl.

Flacco led a championship caliber drive against the Redskins and should have put that game away. If that sounds familiar, it should because Flacco does it often. To say this guy is on the hot seat is crazy.
[/quote]


What he said.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1355277704' post='1258646']

Dude are you crazy??? You do NOT start Moore if you want a high or #1 pick. You start Painter.
[/quote]
Lol
Lmao
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[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1355294004' post='1258861']


He's beaten our team twice on his way to 2 super bowls. I don't think you can blame him for the crap defensive game plan that got them torched in the playoffs. You want to talk about losses, how about the Eagles getting one of their 4 w's against us? And for as bad as you try to make that team sound they beat us at home with a 3rd string qb and numerous injuries on both sides of the ball. Let me repeat that Joe Flacco was outplayed by a 3rd string qb at home. Their o line is worse than ours as is their secondary yet they still usually manage to contain teams passing attacks. Yes he "Unleashed Hell" only to miss the playoffs but for the most part they handle their business in not only the regular season but the post season. I think we begin to dominate this division but that relies on the arm of Joe. You can think what you want but I think player for player we are a more talented all around team which has helped make Harbaugh look better than he is. Also, even with the 8 turnovers(most fumbles by backs which a coach doesn't have control over) they still only lost by 4. I'd love to see what would happen to this team if we managed to give the rock away that much in game.
[/quote]

See this is where guys like yourself lose me. Everything bad that happens with the Ravens is Harbs fault. However you can't blame Tomlin for a bad defensive gameplan. The same people who stood talk to say Flacco didn't outplay Brady because of the poor Pats D, now stand just a tall to say Flacco performed poorly against the Top ranked D, while Batch had a "career day".

So you can blame Harbs because the defensive performance but can't blame Tomlin? Don't get me mistaking, i'm not saying one guy is any better then the other, because i'm a fan of both. Each guy brings something different. The Stteelers have just as many poor outings that make people question how they won. Only because of their history with the National media, people call it the Steelers Way. Find a way to win, they have character and a strong mental make up. But with Harbs he's lucky to have won.

Yea Tomlin does have 2 SB apperances, but how can you give him credit for all that's good and not critic him for the bad. Oh if such and such happened, Tomlin would have benched this guy. Get real man. He benched some young RBs and Mendenhall(who was already struggling) just to make a point. If that's what he felt he needed to do for "HIS" team cool.

Ben makes foolish turnover that cost them games often, he didn't bench him? He didn't stash Wallace on the bench, he took a title away from him, but the guy still played just as much as usual.

Harbs and Tomlin both have 5 playoff wins. They basically have the same win loss record over their first 4 years. So if you wanna bash Harbs, cool, but at least be even with it.
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[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355258413' post='1258265']
If not Joe Flacco then who? Is there a QB in college we can get, or is there someone sitting on someone else's roster? It took us nearly 12 years to find a young QB with Flacco's talent. The result is 4 years of playoffs and near misses.
[/quote]

Rivers, Vick......
-1

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Good Riddance to Cam Cameron I predicted his firing last week and I believe Joe Flacco is not far behind. This will be his last season in a Ravens uniform. Thankfully as with Kyle Boller-the Joe Flacco experiment is finally nearing an end.
-2

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Ha. Unless Flacco throws 8 interceptions on Sunday, I'd say his seat is pretty luke-warm. He was way off vs. Pittsburgh, sure, but he was playing great (NOT elite...) in the 1st half @ Redskins and was just totally shut down vs. Texans. There are teams out there who would give an arm and a leg for a guy like Joe.
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[quote name='PurpleCityLights' timestamp='1355324511' post='1258979']


Rivers, Vick......
[/quote]

Vick? Please NO. He can't stay healthy and as he gets older he'll be forced to be more of a pocket passer which he isn't very good at.

I would place Rivers in the same category as Flacco. They are both very good QBs that have yet to win the Superbowl. Why pay Rivers when we already have Flacco here?
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If you think you're going to get a good read on Flacco's value now because we have 3 games to play after Cam was booted, you've got another thing coming.

First of all, Caldwell has never been a play caller in the NFL. He's never designed a play book in the NFL. He's inexperienced in this department, there's no time to implement a new offensive system anyway. Flacco will still have to play within the confines of Cam Cameron's play book, despite Cam being out of the picture. Next season is when we can have a fresh play book, with totally new route trees, which is what we needed more than anything. I have ALWAYS contended that Cam's downside wasn't necessarily his game time decisions and play calling, but his X's and O's play designs. The play book is an out-dated, generic mess that simply doesn't work, and that's not going to change in the remaining 3 games.

Secondly, we've still got a revolving door offensive line with 1 truly good player, the rest are simply par or worse, too inexperienced or too old, and the O Line coach is one of the luckiest guys in this world to have that job. Moeller is pathetic and a drunk and he needed to be booted right alongside Cam.
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355250044' post='1258094']
Unless Joe really outperforms himself, he is not worth the money he was asking. Now that Canm is fired, I am hoping he proves he is worth that much and more. Wouldn't that be nice?
[/quote]

The offense is not changing so what do you expect Flacco to do ? He is what he is. I can tell you but i will get more negative votes but ok here it goes. LOL

What is Joe Flacco ?
Erratic passing.
Bad Decision Making (way to much time waiting for plays to develop).
Rattled easy, forever to recover.
Zero Pocket Presence.

and he is regressing back to his 2nd or 3rd year performance. I know Cams play calling was very bad but he cannot be on the field making the throws for Flacco, nor can he make Joe have a quicker and sharper thought process. He canot just teach pocket presence. You either have it or you do not and Joe does not and that will be his worst enemy to keep him from going to the next level. If we had a decent defense i would say he would feel less pressure but better quarterbacks have been under the same pressure and still put up very good numbers despite their O'line and pressure. Joe just cannot be that quarterback. But he got his wish and Cam is gone now he will not only expose all of his weaknesses and there will be no excuses. What Joe wanted most is what is going to hurt him the most. Watch out what you wish for.
-2

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[quote name='Latch' timestamp='1355325369' post='1258998']
Ha. Unless Flacco throws 8 interceptions on Sunday, I'd say his seat is pretty luke-warm. He was way off vs. Pittsburgh, sure, but [u][b]he was playing great (NOT elite...) in the 1st half @ Redskins[/b][/u] and was just totally shut down vs. Texans. There are teams out there who would give an arm and a leg for a guy like Joe.
[/quote]


10 / 13, 127 Yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
76.9% Completion Percentage, 9.77 Yards Per Attempt, 146.5 QB Rating

No need to go out of your way to qualify that kind of performance as "NOT elite". That's an elite half, no ifs ands or buts about it.
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[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1355319106' post='1258945']
While I don't feel Harbaugh is on the hot seat, I think some of his duties might be. Front office might step in and make some assistant coach/coordinator decisions for him.

Ozzie has an interesting offseason and he has to realize in this draft that we need to trade up, not back. Let Ed Reed hit free agency, fix the trenches (LT, C, NT, DE), find a backer and find an offensive coordinator.

Maybe going to a 4-3 would be better? Suggs-Ngata-McPhee-Kruger? Ellerbe-Lewis/McClain-Upshaw?
[/quote]

Upshaw? As a 4-3 OLB? I don't even!
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355330899' post='1259088']
The offense is not changing so what do you expect Flacco to do ? He is what he is. I can tell you but i will get more negative votes but ok here it goes. LOL

What is Joe Flacco ?
Erratic passing.
Bad Decision Making (way to much time waiting for plays to develop).
Rattled easy, forever to recover.
Zero Pocket Presence.

and he is regressing back to his 2nd or 3rd year performance. I know Cams play calling was very bad but he cannot be on the field making the throws for Flacco, nor can he make Joe have a quicker and sharper thought process. He canot just teach pocket presence. You either have it or you do not and Joe does not and that will be his worst enemy to keep him from going to the next level. If we had a decent defense i would say he would feel less pressure but better quarterbacks have been under the same pressure and still put up very good numbers despite their O'line and pressure. Joe just cannot be that quarterback. But he got his wish and Cam is gone now he will not only expose all of his weaknesses and there will be no excuses. What Joe wanted most is what is going to hurt him the most. Watch out what you wish for.
[/quote]


You may be right, it may be all Joe's fault and Cam is the scapegoat. I guess we will see. But if and when you are proven wrong, I hope you have a healthy appetite for crow, because a lot of folks here will be ready to feed it to you.
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[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1355331135' post='1259097']



10 / 13, 127 Yards, 3 TD, 0 INT
76.9% Completion Percentage, 9.77 Yards Per Attempt, 146.5 QB Rating

No need to go out of your way to qualify that kind of performance as "NOT elite". That's an elite half, no ifs ands or buts about it.
[/quote]

You may be right, but we need Joe to be playing at that level for the entire game, not just the first half.
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Hey we lose a game, lets blame Joe and Harbs! Ridiculous. To even think of replacing a duo whom has been to the playoffs every year since they've been here. Joe won the AFC championship game last year minus a drop and a missed chip shot. You wanna talk about qb hot seats? Why don't you look at teams like the Jets and Chiefs who actually have bad qbs. So tired of the let's blame Joe for everything campaign. We are turning in to the eagles fan base.
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