Dean Pees Next In Line?

[nk02442]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355204127' post='1257487']
Dude, Corey Graham has been lights out.
And Jimmy could be excellent if he could ever stay on the field more than a few weeks at a time
[/quote]

Graham has been ok. hes got a few picks but he has also been torced a couple times, and is poor in zone.

Jimmy shoulda coulda woulda... blah blah. Production is all that matters and he has been a bust so far.

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355204670' post='1257498']


Graham has been ok. hes got a few picks but he has also been torced a couple times, and is poor in zone.

Jimmy shoulda coulda woulda... blah blah. Production is all that matters and he has been a bust so far.
[/quote]

And that somehow guarantees he will never, ever be a good corner?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1355205281' post='1257511']
And that somehow guarantees he will never, ever be a good corner?
[/quote]
[i]FACEPALM[/i]

[gabefergy]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355204670' post='1257498']


Graham has been ok. hes got a few picks but he has also been torced a couple times, and is poor in zone.

Jimmy shoulda coulda woulda... blah blah. Production is all that matters and he has been a bust so far.
[/quote]
Jimmy was very good last season, but you want to ignore that? CB is not a position where young players excel without any hiccups. It takes time to adjust to the physicality and speed of the game.

[flynismo]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355204670' post='1257498']
Graham has been ok. hes got a few picks but he has also been torced a couple times, and is poor in zone.

Jimmy shoulda coulda woulda... blah blah. Production is all that matters and he has been a bust so far.
[/quote]

I hear you on Jimmy. Not that it means much at this stage of his career, but so far, he is not producing up to his 1st round status.

But Graham has been 10x better than Cary could ever dream of being in the limited action he has seen.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355205909' post='1257532']
I hear you on Jimmy. Not that it means much at this stage of his career, but so far, he is not producing up to his 1st round status.

But Graham has been 10x better than Cary could ever dream of being in the limited action he has seen.
[/quote]
IMO Jimmy has had his moments, ask most of my family (including my father) he will tell you Jimmy is already above average, with the chance to be the [b]best[/b] in the NFL! He had one hell of a game vs Dallas, and basically shut Austin Down....

[nk02442]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1355205844' post='1257529']
Jimmy was very good last season, but you want to ignore that? CB is not a position where young players excel without any hiccups. It takes time to adjust to the physicality and speed of the game.
[/quote]

Did you somehow miss the San Diego Game last year when Jimmy Was SHREADED and gave up 2+ touchdowns. Fact was he was injured half the year just like this year. So he has not developed where he needs to be and is always injured. Anyway you cut it he has not lived up to expectations and has been a bust this far. Top round picks NEED to develop into impact players or your team will suck. First round players need to start unless they are a QB who is being groomed.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355206065' post='1257535']
IMO Jimmy has had his moments, ask most of my family (including my father) he will tell you Jimmy is already above average, with the chance to be the [b]best[/b] in the NFL! He had one hell of a game vs Dallas, and basically shut Austin Down....
[/quote]

I dont think there is a bigger Jimmy fan here on these boards (I had us taking him and Chykie in my mock last year), but he has been very inconsistent so far in his career, which is to be expected

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355206191' post='1257537']
Did you somehow miss the [b]San Diego Game last year [/b]when Jimmy Was SHREADED and gave up 2+ touchdowns. Fact was he was injured half the year just like this year. So he has not developed where he needs to be and is always injured. Anyway you cut it he has not lived up to expectations and has been a bust this far. Top round picks NEED to develop into impact players or your team will suck. First round players need to start unless they are a QB who is being groomed.
[/quote]
And can anyone cover Vincet Jackson... Anyone, Anyone?
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPVyieptwA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPVyieptwA[/url]

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355206230' post='1257538']
I dont think there is a bigger Jimmy fan here on these boards (I had us taking him and Chykie in my mock last year), but he has been very inconsistent so far in his career, which is to be expected
[/quote]
Well, he is a DB, and Webb didnt pan out till his third year!

[nk02442]

I love me some Ben Stien. One of the smartest men alive.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355206328' post='1257541']
Well, he is a DB
[/quote]

Who you calling a dooshbag?

[flynismo]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355206191' post='1257537']
Did you somehow miss the San Diego Game last year when Jimmy Was SHREADED and gave up 2+ touchdowns. Fact was he was injured half the year just like this year. So he has not developed where he needs to be and is always injured. Anyway you cut it he has not lived up to expectations and has been a bust this far. Top round picks NEED to develop into impact players or your team will suck. First round players need to start unless they are a QB who is being groomed.
[/quote]

So, you are going to dismiss a respectable rookie season because of one game? Brilliant!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355206932' post='1257550']
Who you calling a dooshbag?
[/quote]
Defensive Back which is what webb is, Cary is a Dbag.....

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355207041' post='1257551']
So, you are going to dismiss a respectable rookie season because of one game? Brilliant!
[/quote]
Can anyone cover Jackson? Nope. Next Question

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355205371' post='1257513']

[i]FACEPALM[/i]

[/quote]

I know I know. But this guy makes me laugh, with his imaginary facts and proof.

I'm just feeding him for yucks. But you're right. It's a waste of time.

I'm done.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1355207723' post='1257564']
I know I know. But this guy makes me laugh, with his imaginary facts and proof.

I'm just feeding him for yucks. But you're right. It's a waste of time.

I'm done.
[/quote]

[reediddy]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1355205844' post='1257529']
Jimmy was very good last season, but you want to ignore that? CB is not a position where young players excel without any hiccups. It takes time to adjust to the physicality and speed of the game.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, but at a certain point, if the player can't seem to get a grasp of how to play the position at this level, it just isn't meant to be. As with any position, translating abilities from college to the pros is never guaranteed. Jimmy has always had the measurables to succeed at this position but it just hasn't materialized. Whereas you look at a young guy like Dennard in NE who just knows how to play the position, regardless of size. Of course, that is also a product of his defensive system and pass rush, but nevertheless he has a grasp on how to play CB.

A big part of Jimmy's lack of success is his inability to stay healthy. Hopefully he can come back soon and get some valuable work in and become an asset to this defense. Otherwise, the bust label will continue to be thrown around.

[jaege]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355201510' post='1257426']
Then that owner needs to go back to his billion dollar staffing company and leave sports teams to people who want to win. I guess the Patriots are in financial shambles based on their cuthroat roster moves?
[/quote]


A fine temperment, but its easy to sit back and be an armchair owner. In the real world someone has to come up with the money. What with gatorade, and washing the uniforms, that stuff adds up. Are YOU going to do it. You got an extra billion dollars laying around? Planning on making a bid to own the Ravens? I didnt think so.

As far as the Pats, Brady is their draw, their cash cow. It just so happens that he can still play well. There are a large number of Bostonian women (and men with man-crushes) that are sporting Brady jerseys that know nothing about the game. Of course, do any NE fans really know anything about the game? Heh. Of all sports, football has the shortest season but makes the most money. One of the reasons is that we, the fans, get to keep our players. You do not see all the shuffling that baseball and basketball has. Its a fact. Fans identify with the team through the players. They do not like seeing their favorites dumped or traded. They want the team to win, but they want to do it with their favorite players. And like it or not, without fans their would be no football. Any owner or manager for that matter, knows the reality of that situation. Funny that a mere fan like yourself doesnt realize it.

[nk02442]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355225490' post='1257643']
A fine temperment, but its easy to sit back and be an armchair owner. In the real world someone has to come up with the money. What with gatorade, and washing the uniforms, that stuff adds up. Are YOU going to do it. You got an extra billion dollars laying around? Planning on making a bid to own the Ravens? I didnt think so.

As far as the Pats, Brady is their draw, their cash cow. It just so happens that he can still play well. There are a large number of Bostonian women (and men with man-crushes) that are sporting Brady jerseys that know nothing about the game. Of course, do any NE fans really know anything about the game? Heh. Of all sports, football has the shortest season but makes the most money. One of the reasons is that we, the fans, get to keep our players. You do not see all the shuffling that baseball and basketball has. Its a fact. Fans identify with the team through the players. They do not like seeing their favorites dumped or traded. They want the team to win, but they want to do it with their favorite players. And like it or not, without fans their would be no football. Any owner or manager for that matter, knows the reality of that situation. Funny that a mere fan like yourself doesnt realize it.
[/quote]

I think Biscotti is a great guy. Got to meet him at my schools alumni function and was very nice and is a VERY smart businessman.

With that being said, Owning a NFL team is like owning a Seat on the NYSE. Its a licence to print money. The TV deals alone put most teams in the black before you add in ticket sales, merchandising, and other endevlours. Bisscotti bought his ownership share from Model for MUCH less than the team is currently worth.

He is here to make money. Problem is this team does not to be a great team for him to make money. Even teams that cant sell tickets or Jerseys are still making money. (Carolina/JAcksonville) That is undisputible.


Anyone can see this team is setting it self up for failure in future years, and does not have the young players needed to restock the aging and over the hill stars.

There is a reason succsesfull companies pay consultants from the outside to come in and solve their problems. They come in with fresh eyes, and can look at things objectivley without bias or favoritisim.

[sawyer1]

At the risk of making a bad pun, I say give Pees a chance. At least through the rest of this season. I will say this, however. The offense did not lose the game for us against the Washington football club. The defense allowed Cousins to go straight down the middle untouched into the end zone. If he doesn't make it, there is no need to run an offensive play, i.e, take the knee and let time run out. We win 28-26. That may have been what was on CC's mind, with the expectation that Cousins doesn't get in. And so that's the play they went with with 29 seconds to go on offense. I admit that he should've regrouped after that defensive failure, but no way does Cousins score on that play if there is even a modicum of defensive effort. Meanwhile, it's not too late to go all the way. This is mostly a veteran team that ought to be hungry enough to eat from a super bowl.

[jaege]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1355229377' post='1257682']
I think Biscotti is a great guy. Got to meet him at my schools alumni function and was very nice and is a VERY smart businessman.

With that being said, Owning a NFL team is like owning a Seat on the NYSE. Its a licence to print money. The TV deals alone put most teams in the black before you add in ticket sales, merchandising, and other endevlours. Bisscotti bought his ownership share from Model for MUCH less than the team is currently worth.

He is here to make money. Problem is this team does not to be a great team for him to make money. Even teams that cant sell tickets or Jerseys are still making money. (Carolina/JAcksonville) That is undisputible.


Anyone can see this team is setting it self up for failure in future years, and does not have the young players needed to restock the aging and over the hill stars.

There is a reason succsesfull companies pay consultants from the outside to come in and solve their problems. They come in with fresh eyes, and can look at things objectivley without bias or favoritisim.
[/quote]


You are just reiterating my point. We agree completely. Football makes money. Big money. But all those ticket sales, merchandise and TV deals are based upon one element. Fans. We are the grease that moves the wheel. And fans like their players. If baseball would learn that lesson they could take back the title of America's Favorite pastime. Alas, they fail to learn.

And we agree that winning is not important. The teams make money win, lose or draw. So ditching favorite players, like Lewis or Reed is not conducive to fan morale or support. Although I have to agree that we need to get more young talent. Really though the draft process only allows us to grab so much a year. I am unsure how the team could proceed.

Do you think we are not getting our share? Are bad decisions being made? What is your take? How do you think we could get younger? Realistically, even if Lewis and Reed and all the older guys retired we wouldnt have much talent to fill in the holes with. At least not yet. You are saying we are setting ourselves up for failure, how? And how do you think it could be stopped?

[Ed_Reed20]

I really don't see the point in firing Pees. From sending the house to mostly hanging back in coverage and between, he's made tons of adjustments during the season but nothing has really worked consistently. Anyone who was watching the Ravens for the first time in '07 might have thought Rex was a terrible. Did his play-calling suddenly take a dive or was he missing key personnel and having to rely on guys like David Pittman and Derrick Martin. A DC can only do so much.

Considering the injuries to and diminished impact from Suggs, Webb, Haloti, Ray and McPhee, is anyone really surprised the D has often looked piss poor this season?

Pees hasn't been without fault and if the FO decides to release him in the off-season so be it, but personnel has clearly been the bigger issue this season. The D needs to be reloaded.

[Fang]

[size=6][sub]Dean Pees needs to go also. Losing Suggs doesn't mean we should drop from 3rd to the bottom of the league. We lost Suggs back in the winter so it's not like Pees didn't have time to adjust. The defense was being sliced even when we had Ray, Webb, Jimmy Smith and everyone else healthy. [/sub]

[sub]I think John Harbaugh is a very good coach. But assuming he picks his own coordinators, I think he needs improvement in that area. I don't understand the approach in the NFL where coaches bounce from team to team having failed in their prior job. Why was Cam hired when he didn't exactly light it up on San Diego and then was fired after a 1 year head coaching stint. Why is Dean Pees our defensive coordinator when Bill Belichick didn't seem to think he was worth keeping? Bill Belichick is the guy we're trying to beat and we hire his cast-off D coordintator. It makes no sense to me.[/sub]

[sub]Whatever this hiring trend is of coaches it has to stop. We now have two coordinators in Caldwell and Pees who were essentially fired by their previous teams.[/sub][/size]

[Free Agent]

The defense would have dropped off even with Pagano still at the helm. No one could have taken this current group and made them play as well as last year, or even close.

We havent had Suggs for most of the season, and while he has been back, he hasnt been himself. Webb is out. Lewis is out. Reed isn't playing at the level he has for most of his career, and much of the remainder of the starters shouldnt be starting and wouldnt be starting on other NFL teams.

Its been a rough year for the defense, but the injuries, combined with the new defensive system havent helped. I expect things to be better next year.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355248157' post='1258039']
[size=6][sub]Dean Pees needs to go also. Losing Suggs doesn't mean we should drop from 3rd to the bottom of the league. We lost Suggs back in the winter so it's not like Pees didn't have time to adjust. The defense was being sliced even when we had Ray, Webb, Jimmy Smith and everyone else healthy. [/sub]

[sub]I think John Harbaugh is a very good coach. But assuming he picks his own coordinators, I think he needs improvement in that area. I don't understand the approach in the NFL where coaches bounce from team to team having failed in their prior job. Why was Cam hired when he didn't exactly light it up on San Diego and then was fired after a 1 year head coaching stint. Why is Dean Pees our defensive coordinator when Bill Belichick didn't seem to think he was worth keeping? Bill Belichick is the guy we're trying to beat and we hire his cast-off D coordintator. It makes no sense to me.[/sub]

[sub]Whatever this hiring trend is of coaches it has to stop. We now have two coordinators in Caldwell and Pees who were essentially fired by their previous teams.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

Caldwell wasnt hired to be a head coach, he was hired to be a QBs coach. Circumstances led to him being promoted, if only temporarily to offensive coordinator.

Pees chose to leave the Patriots after his contract expired in 2010. He was not fired.

Your point about coaches failing in their previous jobs and then being hired by other teams doesnt make sense. Thats often how it goes in the NFL, teams look for experience in their coaches, and a firing is often the only way a coach with experience becomes available.

Also, look at Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips. He was a pretty sad excuse for a head coach in Dallas, but as a defensive coordinator in Houston, he has made the Texans defense into one of the top defenses in the league relatively quickly.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1355203807' post='1257479']


I dont see why you say that. He is working with a bunch of guys who should be pumping gas, not starting defensive players on an NFL roster.

If we were getting these results all year long with a healthy Ngata, Suggs, Webb and Ray (FOUR Pro Bowl caliber players!), then I would be aboard with these lunatics calling for his head. But that obviously isnt the case
[/quote]
In the same post I said he deserves a chance, though I understand how it could be confusing due to the way I ended my post.

With that said, Pees has done a good job with the ridiculous injuries we have suffered. There is some things he can do to fix our defense even with the personnel not performing well. For instance, why did nobody spy the QB for essentially the game-winning touchdown against the Redskins? It's possible he told them to do it but they didn't, but come on. That TD was unacceptable.

That's just one example. Also, there comes a point where I can't blame the personnel and have to blame the coaches. It is the coaches job to ensure the players are prepared. I have no idea what's happening in the meetings, but I feel that Pees can do better. I do think he has performed decently with what he has had.

[flynismo]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1355265542' post='1258435']
In the same post I said he deserves a chance, though I understand how it could be confusing due to the way I ended my post.

With that said, Pees has done a good job with the ridiculous injuries we have suffered. There is some things he can do to fix our defense even with the personnel not performing well. For instance, why did nobody spy the QB for essentially the game-winning touchdown against the Redskins? It 9;s possible he told them to do it but they didn't, but come on. That TD was unacceptable.

That's just one example. Also, there comes a point where I can't blame the personnel and have to blame the coaches. It is the coaches job to ensure the players are prepared. I have no idea what's happening in the meetings, but I feel that Pees can do better. I do think he has performed decently with what he has had.
[/quote]

Okay I can agree with that. There is always room for improvement, I dont care who you are, and Pees is no exception.From what I've seen, I think he is pretty good with a solid system. The question is whether his system is a good fit for us, and we wont know that until we are at or close to full strength.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355248157' post='1258039']
[size=6][sub]Dean Pees needs to go also. Losing Suggs doesn't mean we should drop from 3rd to the bottom of the league. We lost Suggs back in the winter so it's not like Pees didn't have time to adjust. The defense was being sliced even when we had Ray, Webb, Jimmy Smith and everyone else healthy. [/sub]

[sub]I think John Harbaugh is a very good coach. But assuming he picks his own coordinators, I think he needs improvement in that area. I don't understand the approach in the NFL where coaches bounce from team to team having failed in their prior job. Why was Cam hired when he didn't exactly light it up on San Diego and then was fired after a 1 year head coaching stint. Why is Dean Pees our defensive coordinator when Bill Belichick didn't seem to think he was worth keeping? Bill Belichick is the guy we're trying to beat and we hire his cast-off D coordintator. It makes no sense to me.[/sub]

[sub]Whatever this hiring trend is of coaches it has to stop. We now have two coordinators in Caldwell and Pees who were essentially fired by their previous teams.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

What was Pees supposed to adjust? The talent level of Kruger, Upshaw, Kindle, and McClellan? Lol.
The issue is talent, not scheme, and you're blind not to see it.

Also, Cam set records in San Diego. Good try though!

Pees left of his own accord. He wasn't fired. He coached a few top 10 defenses while in New England. Good try again! Play again?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355271198' post='1258532']


What was Pees supposed to adjust? The talent level of Kruger, Upshaw, Kindle, and McClellan? Lol.
The issue is talent, not scheme, and you're blind not to see it.

Also, Cam set records in San Diego. Good try though!

Pees left of his own accord. He wasn't fired. He coached a few top 10 defenses while in New England. Good try again! Play again?
[/quote]
The only thing I would like to see more of and it may have already happened is using Ngata at NT, Jones & McPhee at the DEs. I think that alignment would work best for us right now with the play of both NTs.