Merged: Jim Caldwell's offense

[Dubs]

A good no huddle eats up the clock just as long as a good power run team - as long as you dont abandon the run and take/have outlet options that keep the clock running. Its not like in a no huddle you are snapping the ball with an extra 15 or 20 seconds on the clock, if anything teams like Denver and New England are probably the most consistant with snapping under five seconds. It is clear Joe is a rhythm quarterback and a no huddle would nurture that the most, I think the crucial thing will be if Joe continually knows when to and does audible to run plays.

[Ravensfan23]

@Militant X, i agree. Harbs has said plenty of times that he wants the offense to operate at a faster pace. Flacco has publicly stated how "Super Bowl" teams have offenses that can drop the hammer on teams and stay aggressive throughout the game. In this wide open version of the NFL, you will rarely win consistently being conservative.

Just because you wanna establish the running game, doesn't mean you have to become stagnant offensively. In a 4 minute offense, you can continue to attack, it's just about having high percentage plays. You see guys like Brady control the game at the LOS by working the clock but continuing to keep defenses on their heels. The Pats force defenses to continue to make plays to stop them, instead of going into a shell.

I know everyone is making this comparison because of Caldwell's past, but it's just like the Colts. Right now the defense is a bend but don't break unit. Much like the Colts they make big plays in spurts and focus on either getting the ball back or holding a team to a FG, in hopes that the Offense will score a TD. However when you need a stop, chances are they won't come up big.

If and when the offense starts early and puts up TDs, the defense usually plays better. So you want the offense to stay aggressive, because when they take their foot off the peddle, things become stagnant and that's when the defense being on the field too long becomes a issue.

[Fang]

Be careful of that no-huddle. If the Ravens go 3 and out often that will only leave Manning more time to possess the ball. Stating the obvious, but if we don't move the ball the no-huddle will make a bad defense even worse.

[UMDan]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355243301' post='1257914']
Disagree. The no huddle doesn't have to be fast. The reason you wanna run the no huddle is to keep the defense on it's heels and less complexed. Even if the offense does score quickly, it doesn't have to hamper the defense.

Even though they have slipped the last 2 weeks, the defense allows more FGs then TDs. So if you force teams to match FGs with TDs, thats a win.

The Ravens are averaging like 30+ points at home and the defense isn't giving up nearly as much. I agree that creativity is big, but i think more importantly is that the Ravens need to remain aggressive when ggetting double digit leads. Staying in the no huddle will allow the Ravens to do this.
[/quote]

I understand the concept of the no-huddle, I just think you need the personnel to support it, and at this juncture I'm not sure that we do. You're right, the defense has turned it on in the red zone, but it has been injury prone this year and they are spending more time on the field that ever. Facing QBs like Peyton and Eli, I think we'll have trouble holding them to field goals.

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355246355' post='1257982']
sooo, are you saying that the Ravens offense should "slow it down" and for them NOT try to score as many points as possible? smh! there is NOTHING like taking total control of a game offensively by scoring as many points as quickly as you can. not only does it give your offense tremendous confidence in knowing that; for the most part...they are unstoppable and can make plays to move the chains...it also breaks the spirit and will of your opponents! imo, it also may inspire the defense on the sideline to match the offensives intensity. case & point....last nights game. the patriots jumped all over the texans early and often and went up 21-0 at one point. they didn't let up...they ended with a score of 42-14. lol! to me...many people will try to make this an issue of the fast paced offense vs the defense being on the field....when it need not be! score quick! score fast! take a commanding lead and then....let the defense hunt!

~Mili
[/quote]

Of course I'm not saying that. If the no-huddle is what it takes for Joe to put up points, I'm all for it. I just don't know that it is. I hate to give them any props, but we are not the New England Patriots. Yes, we did beat them and still can on any given Sunday, but Joe Flacco isn't Tom Brady. If we are running the no-huddle effectively, putting points on the board (quickly or not) and the defense giving up touchdowns every drive then I support it, but it seems that even our no-huddle can be quite stagnant at times, putting the defense back on the field minutes after they came off it. From a historical perspective it has been difficult for Ravens' defenses constantly having to cover for the offense. We finally have a formidable offense, we just need to execute it the best we can for the situation at hand. There are times when the no-huddle makes sense and there are times when it does not. Adapting to the situation is essential.


[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1355246697' post='1257992']
Very well said and i agree. We need to get back to basics in coverage, route running. Both sides of the ball have played less then stellar. To many dropped passes, not getting away clean off of the line etc. The defense is a bust at tackling and staying in their zones. To many times have i seen the middle of the field empty of our defense of the first or second guy missing tackles. We cannot afford to give away free yardage.
[/quote]

Right. I understand the concept of keeping the defense winded but if we've struggled so much in route running and getting separation is the no-huddle really all that useful? I don't hate the idea of no-huddle, I just think it has really diminished our defense at times.

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355248616' post='1258051']
@Militant X, i agree. Harbs has said plenty of times that he wants the offense to operate at a faster pace. Flacco has publicly stated how "Super Bowl" teams have offenses that can drop the hammer on teams and stay aggressive throughout the game. In this wide open version of the NFL, you will rarely win consistently being conservative.

Just because you wanna establish the running game, doesn't mean you have to become stagnant offensively. In a 4 minute offense, you can continue to attack, it's just about having high percentage plays. You see guys like Brady control the game at the LOS by working the clock but continuing to keep defenses on their heels. The Pats force defenses to continue to make plays to stop them, instead of going into a shell.

I know everyone is making this comparison because of Caldwell's past, but it's just like the Colts. Right now the defense is a bend but don't break unit. Much like the Colts they make big plays in spurts and focus on either getting the ball back or holding a team to a FG, in hopes that the Offense will score a TD. However when you need a stop, chances are they won't come up big.

If and when the offense starts early and puts up TDs, the defense usually plays better. So you want the offense to stay aggressive, because when they take their foot off the peddle, things become stagnant and that's when the defense being on the field too long becomes a issue.
[/quote]

I don't disagree with remaining aggressive at all. I feel like we absolutely put ourselves at risk of losing momentum based on play-calling and strategy at times. I just am concerned that our personnel on both sides of the ball right now may not be able to handle the no-huddle all of the time.

[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355249013' post='1258068']
Be careful of that no-huddle. If the Ravens go 3 and out often that will only leave Manning more time to possess the ball. Stating the obvious, but if we don't move the ball the no-huddle will make a bad defense even worse.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[Ravensfan23]

@UMDan...i understand your concern and what you are saying. However i will say that every team has stretches in a game where they go 3 and out or doesn't score. Running less no huddle won't fix that. I feel, just putting your team in position to be comfotable and maximize their talents, is ultimately helps in this area.

You say the Ravens don't have the personnel to run the no huddle and i strongly disagree. I actually think the Ravens have the personnel to be one of the best teams in the NFL running the no huddle. Just look at the success they've had with it at home. The issue is properly using that personnel.

I agree that Flacco isn't Brady. But he doesn't have to be. Brady isnt Peyton, Peyton isn't Rodgers, and Brees isn't Eli. What separates those guys, is the fact their offenses puts them in position to succeed more often then not.

Brady is probably the best QB playing right now. But if he was in a offense that called for him to push the balll down field 70-80% of the time, Brady probably wouldn't be as successful, because that's not his game. Even when he had Moss, his deep passing wasn't stellar, Moss bailed him out a lot.

So Flacco doesn't have to play like Brady, he just needs to be able to do what he does well more often, instead of conforming to someone else's system.

[i82much]

Truth is we have no idea what Flacco's ceiling is because he has been handcuffed for so long. Comparisons to Brady and Manning are silly. The point is to find out now whether it is realistic to think he may reach that point instead of paying him and finding out later that he cannot.

[burnell]

Flacco was excellent last year in the AFC champ game vs Patriots. Flacco was excellent in the no-huddle game vs the Bengals this year. Flaccos recent problems are due limited pass blocking, and an offensive play calling that could be guessed by the opposition, forcing Flacco into many 2nd and 3rd and longs. Our offense does much better when the D must guess between a Rice Run or a pass. When they know its pass-pass, its blitz and punt return.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Fang' timestamp='1355249013' post='1258068']
Be careful of that no-huddle. If the Ravens go 3 and out often that will only leave Manning more time to possess the ball. Stating the obvious, but if we don't move the ball the no-huddle will make a bad defense even worse.
[/quote]

Point well taken, but again that has nothing to do with the no huddle not working. The Ravens can huddle all game, but if they aren't converting 1st downs, Peyton will be right back on the field.

Again, the no huddle wasn't the issue, it was the route concepts and play designs by Cam. There is a difference being no huddle and up tempo.

If it's 3rd & 7 and you call a 5 yard curl or out route, it doesn't matter if that play was called at the LOS or in the huddle, chances are it won't work.

The Ravens need to keep the offense moving and that will force them to keep Manning on the bench and in a trail mode

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1355244327' post='1257941']
QB coach for the Chiefs. Dont know the contract situation. I agree though, Joe would be super happy to have him back. Nothing wrong with that.
[/quote]

While the Chiefs are likely going to clean house this off-season, why would Zorn return to a team that did him wrong? Harbaugh's firing of him was very unprofessional IMO.

[Bravens292]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355256311' post='1258219']
While the Chiefs are likely going to clean house this off-season, why would Zorn return to a team that did him wrong? Harbaugh's firing of him was very unprofessional IMO.
[/quote]

true, same reason rex would never do that as long as john is here. maybe even garrett... i hope not. i'd like him here if jim isn't the long term answer.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1355249933' post='1258089']
Of course I'm not saying that. If the no-huddle is what it takes for Joe to put up points, I'm all for it. I just don't know that it is. I hate to give them any props, but [b]we are not the New England Patriots[/b]. Yes, we did beat them and still can on any given Sunday, but [b]Joe Flacco isn't Tom Brady[/b]. If we are running the no-huddle effectively, putting points on the board (quickly or not) and the defense giving up touchdowns every drive then I support it, but [u][b]it seems that even our no-huddle can be quite stagnant at times, putting the defense back on the field minutes after they came off it[/b][/u]. From a historical perspective it has been difficult for Ravens' defenses constantly having to cover for the offense. We finally have a formidable offense, we just need to execute it the best we can for the situation at hand. There are times when the no-huddle makes sense and there are times when it does not. Adapting to the situation is essential.
[/quote]

of course the Ravens aren't the patriots and Flacco isn't Brady but the question becomes...."why not?" the answer: he (they) was handicapped by Cam Cameron. Flacco is a stallion that has been trying to run free for 5 years now and Cam had him tied up like a government mule. lol! in order for the offense to become more efficient in the no huddle "quicker pace" offensive approach like the patriots, packers and even the falcons; they (Ravens offense) must be allowed to grow into that and that wouldn't be done when Cam was constantly pulling back on the reigns. he's gone now so i say....take off their shackles and open up the offense! let these guys get this thing going!

~Mili

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355191339' post='1257071']
My ([b]delusional Raider fan[/b], not you NFLfan123 if you are reading this) friend said that it was all on Flacco, but I agree with the Bolded, but our O needs to use more 3 WR sets. That along with an increased running game might help us!
[/quote]

Just out of curiosity, was this before or after Joe passed for three TDs and ran for another on them?

[baroquenspirit]

Well, you guys got your wish. The timing is interesting. The stretch run is upon us....

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355257592' post='1258245']


of course the Ravens aren't the patriots and Flacco isn't Brady but the question becomes...."why not?" the answer: he (they) was handicapped by Cam Cameron. Flacco is a stallion that has been trying to run free for 5 years now and Cam had him tied up like a government mule. lol! in order for the offense to become more efficient in the no huddle "quicker pace" offensive approach like the patriots, packers and even the falcons; they (Ravens offense) must be allowed to grow into that and that wouldn't be done when Cam was constantly pulling back on the reigns. he's gone now so i say....take off their shackles and open up the offense! let these guys get this thing going!

~Mili
[/quote]

Harbs said this was a move to put the Ravens in position to win the Super Bowl, so i think what you ask for will certainly happen.

No doubt the Ravens will open things up and put the ball in Flacco's hands. Caldwell sees the game from the QB perspective and i fully expect him to play to what Flacco does best and wants to do. That spells spread, shotgun, and a uptempo offense. It would not surprise me to hear that from the second Caldwell took over, he and Flacco started puttting the game plan together.

[Ravenslifer]

Here's a good article from Bucky Brooks on some of what our offense can do to be more successful going forward.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000109827/article/baltimore-ravens-offense-can-be-fixed-with-this-fourstep-plan

Actually, a lot of these points are things we've been saying for the past 2+ years - involve Rice, diversify Torrey's route tree, get the tight ends more involved, etc.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355263575' post='1258382']
Here's a good article from Bucky Brooks on some of what our offense can do to be more successful going forward.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000109827/article/baltimore-ravens-offense-can-be-fixed-with-this-fourstep-plan"]http://www.nfl.com/n...s-fourstep-plan[/url]

Actually, a lot of these points are things we've been saying for the past 2+ years - involve Rice, diversify Torrey's route tree, get the tight ends more involved, etc.
[/quote]

was about to post the same thing lol

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355259987' post='1258292']


Just out of curiosity, was this before or after Joe passed for three TDs and ran for another on them?
[/quote]
After lol

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355263968' post='1258391']
After lol
[/quote]

Then I hope you asked your buddy how it felt for his team to be thrashed by such a poor quarterback.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355271174' post='1258531']
Then I hope you asked your buddy how it felt for his team to be thrashed by such a poor quarterback.
[/quote]
He said that the Raiders are a joke team and wouldve beat us easy with Mcfadden...
He said any QB would thrash their secondary.

[RavenFanatic1327]

I definitely hope he adds more creativity to the offense. more pick plays , more crossing routes, lots of trip sets. we have all the tools to be a great offense and i honestly think cam was holding some guys back from their full potential.

[Bravens292]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1355263575' post='1258382']
Here's a good article from Bucky Brooks on some of what our offense can do to be more successful going forward.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000109827/article/baltimore-ravens-offense-can-be-fixed-with-this-fourstep-plan"]http://www.nfl.com/n...s-fourstep-plan[/url]

Actually, a lot of these points are things we've been saying for the past 2+ years - involve Rice, diversify Torrey's route tree, get the tight ends more involved, etc.
[/quote]

thank god [i]someone[/i] in the media actually found torrey needs to run more than a vertical

[K-Dog]

Caldwell should call an end around just to screw with the fans

[Ravensfan23]

I think both Brooks and Jaws are hitting the nail right on the head with what was ailing this offense. The lack of basic concepts that help guys who aren't #1 WRs get open. Cam's approach seemed to be....As long as you win your 1on1 matchups the offense will succeed. However when you have defensive coordinators getting more complexed, you have to become just as creative.

Again when you have guys with either great speed or return ability like Jones, Smith, Doss, LQW, Reed and Thompson, those guys should be given opportunities to catch the ball in space, RAC potential. Screens, rubs, picks, stacks, slants, shallow crosses,post, corners, post corner, and deep square in routes should all be featured prominently in this offense.

The fact that Flacco is a really strong play action guy who can make all the throws on the field would only help. That means defenses would really have to defend all areas of the field. In order to use the play action successfully you have to utilize the run game. This means your Pro Bowl RB, Pro Bowl FB and really good rookie RB would automatically be heavily involved in the game plan.

This doesn't even mention your 2 TEs who are a mismatch for most LBs and Safeties. I can't count the number of times i was frustrated by RG3 showing the ball, then quickly completing a pass just behind the LBs. The frustrating part was that there was no defense for it. The LBs had to respect the run, thus creating space behind them and in front of the safeties.

I find it hard to believe that you can't convince opposing LBs that you are willing to run the ball with Ray Rice. I also find it hard to believe that guys like Dickson, Pitta, Doss and Boldin couldn't quickly get behind LBs and make them pay for committing to the run.

This now does 2 things. Force the safeties to stay in the middle of the field, to try and help keep those plays over the middle from being huge gains. That means when they are sucked up by play action, Smith and Jones have a better chance at running away from man cover on deep routes.

It also helps the running game because eventually the LBs, will spot committing to the run so soon and Olineman will be able to get to 2nd level blocks easier. That creates more explosive plays in the running game.

Yes this all sounds so simple, but remember, these are the exact concepts that made Peyton and the Colts so successful. Yea Flacco isn't Peyton, but he has way more weapons then Peyton did and that should make this offense really take off imo.

[RavensDE]

System Normal. Same plays, different play calls. More no huddle. Different gameplans. More autonomy for Flacco.

In my mind I see us throwing more as Flacco calls his own number. Ray Rice's carries are still a question, but a less important one than if the passing game can be more effective/efficient.

Another possibility, however unlikely, is we take a radical new turn with playcalling catch at least one team off guard.

[Ravenslifer]

The thing I'm almost sure we're going to see right off the bat is a greater diversity in route-running. That is the big reason Cam was fired, according to Jaws.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8732341/baltimore-ravens-fire-cam-cameron-tab-jim-caldwell

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1355262541' post='1258354']
Well, you guys got your wish. [b]The timing is interesting.[/b] The stretch run is upon us....
[/quote]

we've had an inept offense for the past several games brah! hot one minute...cold the next! it was time for a change so this is just right! unconventional...but just right! think about it: 3 games left....2 prolific passers coming to town in Peyton and Eli. get rid of the cancer (Cam) and let's start putting teams away by playing aggressive offensively! and here's what i like....no new system to learn. no new plays to learn. no new philosophy to learn....just a lil' bit of tweaking here and there! we got this! i expect the Ravens offense to show what they are really capable of if given the chance. it's about to get real!

~Mili

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355277867' post='1258652']
Caldwell should call an end around just to screw with the fans


[/quote]
Enthusiastically seconded!

[baroquenspirit]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355282748' post='1258752']
we've had an inept offense for the past several games brah! hot one minute...cold the next! it was time for a change so this is just right! unconventional...but just right! think about it: 3 games left....2 prolific passers coming to town in Peyton and Eli. get rid of the cancer (Cam) and let's start putting teams away by playing aggressive offensively! and here's what i like....no new system to learn. no new plays to learn. no new philosophy to learn....just a lil' bit of tweaking here and there! we got this! i expect the Ravens offense to show what they are really capable of if given the chance. it's about to get real!

~Mili
[/quote]

Ya, obviously I have no idea how it will work out. Fans got what they wanted...now we see if they are happy with the results.

[berad]

May just be me but Caldwell sounded a lot more lively in his most recent press conference than past ones. I hope he's excited, he inherited an offense with a good amount of talent.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1355289837' post='1258833']
Ya, obviously I have no idea how it will work out. [b]Fans got what they wanted[/b]...now we see if they are happy with the results.
[/quote]

not just the fans but the owner as well. Caldwell will do well. once again, we are not learning a new system so this should be a difficult transition even this late in the season. plus, Caldwell has Joe, Rice, Q and Torrey along with the other offensive position coaches to assist him. we got this! i am excited about the change and expect to see an immediate difference in the play calling and our offenses production. the Ravens O is about to make cats nervous. let's gooo!

~Mili