Merged: Jim Caldwell's offense

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1355191123' post='1257058']
On the flip side, one can say that Caldwell was brought in to help with the No huddle and it's his input that led to alot of the No Huddle success. Maybe [b]Cam wasn't as comfortable with the No Huddle and that's why the Offense would be so quick to get away from it. Much like you that's pure speculation on my part.[/b]

I think people are looking too deep into the play calling aspect of it. Also too much is being made about what offense will be run. I think with Caldwell's knowledge of the "passing game" the offense will remain the same, they'll just focus more on the details of how to take advantages of strengths vs defensive weakness.

Caldwell said just goal is to get the offense, just a little bit better. I have to agree, you can't put up the type of offensive numbers at home and not be a good offense. How i view it is like building a business. Cam was the start up guy, he help build it from the ground up and he got this offense to show flashes of what they can be.

Caldwell is that guy who doesn't really have the skill set to build a business, but he's a great CEO type. He's the guy you hire to take your profitable business to the next level. I'm willing to to bet the Ravens just want Caldwell to make minor tweaks and be able to take this offense to the next level, instead of stripping everything down and rebuilding it.

So look for minor changes to the offense, that leads to things being more open
[/quote]
My (delusional Raider fan, not you NFLfan123 if you are reading this) friend said that it was all on Flacco, but I agree with the Bolded, but our O needs to use more 3 WR sets. [b]That[/b] along with an increased running game might help us!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1355191229' post='1257065']
Jim - let your offense be my christmas gift. Boldin in the slot, torrey running crosses and slants, more no huddle, and more rice screens.

he may not change the scheme all that much but the way he uses them should. he can't be any more stubborn to give up the offense than cam was.
[/quote]
NO CONSERVATIVE CRAP! Or I will run you out of town too!

[Ravenseconbeast]

Like I always say. Good QBs arent dictated by who OC is.

They make the offense theirs and make the weapons. So far its been alot of nothing from Joe with exception of few games like Raiders & Redskins 1st half(both worst secondaries in NFL).

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355191680' post='1257086']
Like I always say. Good QBs arent dictated by who OC is.

They make the offense theirs and make the weapons. So far its been alot of nothing from Joe with exception of few games like Raiders & Redskins 1st half(both worst secondaries in NFL).
[/quote]
Yes, but when Brees and Rivers both struggled under Cam (we are talking about someone who is to damn stubborn to play well, and a future hall of famer), you kind of know that he is the problem.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355191798' post='1257092']

Yes, but when Brees and Rivers both struggled under Cam (we are talking about someone who is to damn stubborn to play well, and a future hall of famer), you kind of know that he is the problem.
[/quote]

Cam stunk. He is part of the blame on offense struggle. But so is Flacco, and so is the O-line. If one thing has worked, the other one hasnt shown up.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355192208' post='1257109']
Cam stunk. He is part of the blame on offense struggle. But so is Flacco, and so is the O-line. If one thing has worked, the other one hasnt shown up.
[/quote]
Cam Cameron: The Jimmy Carter of OCs
But in this case, Flacco tried, but bc of the [b]really[/b] sucky routes the WR cannot get open, forcing him to hold the ball! Then the O-Line does not give him time, and then all hell breaks loose!

[AlaskanRavensFan]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355191680' post='1257086']
Like I always say. Good QBs arent dictated by who OC is.

They make the offense theirs and make the weapons. So far its been alot of nothing from Joe with exception of few games like Raiders & Redskins 1st half(both worst secondaries in NFL).
[/quote]

I think Joe has been good up to this point, just not great. That's what Ozzie is trying to see, greatness. Hopefully Jim can help him get there.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' timestamp='1355192346' post='1257115']
I think Joe has been good up to this point, just not great. That's what Ozzie is trying to see, greatness. Hopefully Jim can help him get there.
[/quote]
Joe has his flashes, then Cam takes away the no huddle, which is incredibly hard to defend.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355192456' post='1257122']
Joe has his flashes, then Cam takes away the no huddle, which is incredibly hard to defend.
[/quote]
Joe is the most comfortable when he's in shotgun. He can see the whole field and can throw as soon as he gets the ball, which means the o-line doesn't have to hold up for as long. It also allows us to spread defenses out. I think Cam just doesn't have a feel for games, because his play-calling was some times inexplicable and brutally predictable. With Joe having more comfort and more freedom, look for the offense to get off to faster starts.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' timestamp='1355192872' post='1257141']
Joe is the most comfortable when he's in shotgun. He can see the whole field and can throw as soon as he gets the ball, which means the o-line doesn't have to hold up for as long. It also allows us to spread defenses out. I think Cam just doesn't have a feel for games, because his play-calling was some times inexplicable and brutally predictable. With Joe having more comfort and more freedom, look for the offense to get off to faster starts.
[/quote]
Is Alaska Nice? Anyway I agree... The O needs to [b]attack[/b]. This is the pros, you play to win the game! We need to win!

[AlaskanRavensFan]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355192942' post='1257146']
Is Alaska Nice? Anyway I agree... The O needs to [b]attack[/b]. This is the pros, you play to win the game! We need to win!
[/quote]
It is if you like snow and the outdoors.
Too often it seemed as though to offense was playing not to lose. You could sense the tension through the tv!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='AlaskanRavensFan' timestamp='1355193119' post='1257157']
It is if you like snow and the outdoors.
Too often it seemed as though to offense was playing not to lose. You could sense the tension through the tv!
[/quote]
Even out here in the west as well SMH. And I love snow! Just not the shoveling.... The Maryland snowstorm of 2010, I had to shovel all six feet

[Hjulmann]

Please for christs sake just no more going deep on 2nd and 10, please no more!

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1355171236' post='1256355']
more short routes is all i want. i would think ray would actually get his touches now?
[/quote]
Agreed. You got to have a short passing game going when your oline has more holes then
Swiss cheese. . Long routes with poor pass protection is a great way to get your QB injured ,
strip sacked,or picked.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1355194274' post='1257206']
Agreed. You got to have a short passing game going when your oline has more holes then
Swiss cheese. . Long routes with poor pass protection is a great way to get your QB injured ,
strip sacked,or picked.
[/quote]

I think they will still run deep routes, but I think they will mix it up a lot more and there will be less plays with only three possible reads. I am hoping Jim will get more players on the field too. Let's see what Doss and Laquan can do. Keep the defense off balance with fresh legs at receiver and RB. Good offensive teams always seem to find no-name talent at WR. I think Cam liked to only use this top two or three receivers all game. It's hard to know what players can do when they don't get any chance to show it.

[Alexir]

Maybe he will find the chapter in the playbook called "Slants and Crosses".

[AlaskanRavensFan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1355194737' post='1257224']
Maybe he will find the chapter in the playbook called "Slants and Crosses".
[/quote]

The only time Cam called slants is on third and short. The passes were always either knocked down or nearly picked. Hopefully they'll call them in appropriate situations when the corners are playing off, rather than in press man when the whole defense is looking for it.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1355186075' post='1256873']
Well we dont know if it's improved yet, but the signs would point towards that direction. Anything other than Cam would be an improvement as far I am concerned. But yes, I'm in the wait and see mode, at least I have something to be optimistic about now.
[/quote]This pretty much sums it up for me. But if the players are happy i'm happy too.

[Kwothdaraven]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355191680' post='1257086']
Like I always say. Good QBs arent dictated by who OC is.

They make the offense theirs and make the weapons. So far its been alot of nothing from Joe with exception of few games like Raiders & Redskins 1st half(both worst secondaries in NFL).
[/quote]

I disagree most QBs are mostly successful because of their system they are in.

Look at tom brady, he plays in by far the most effective and efficient system in the nfl. He went down and matt freaking cassel still won them 11 games. All he does is dump the ball off. Hes always leading the league in pass attempts of under 10 yards.

Aaron rogers plays in a wide open system with 5 reciever sets being typical.

Look at rg3, perfect example. The redskins have a gimmikey college pistol offense running which is the only reason he is having the season he is.

Not many qbs will be able to perform at a high level in cams system. Look at drew brees and phillip rivers who both became top 5 qbs the season after cam left them.

The only qb that transcends this is peyton manning but thats because hes his own OC

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355192208' post='1257109']
Cam stunk. He is part of the blame on offense struggle. But so is Flacco, and so is the O-line. If one thing has worked, the other one hasnt shown up.
[/quote]
Yeah if people can't blame man you can blame the receivers too.

[UMDan]

There's been a lot of talk about the no-huddle and how Joe is most comfortable in it, and that Caldwell is more likely to let him run what he wants (especially without OC experience). This presents a dilemma. I think there's no doubt Joe looks good in the no-huddle for the most part, however, it leaves the defense on the field way too long, and TOP can be really important. I just am not sure that the payoff is worth it if it takes so much out of the defense.

I think predictability and creativity is what needs the most addressing on the offense, but unless Caldwell has known this was coming for some time now I'm not sure that we can get that.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1355191680' post='1257086']
Like I always say. Good QBs arent dictated by who OC is.

They make the offense theirs and make the weapons. So far its been alot of nothing from Joe with exception of few games like Raiders & Redskins 1st half(both worst secondaries in NFL).
[/quote]

That's just not true. Look at the "Good,Great,Elite" QBs over the last 10 and you'll find that 90% if not all have had offenses cartered to them.

Their coaches come up with gameplans and it's up to the QB to execute. The put the weapons in position and it's up to the QB to deliver the ball.

A guy like RG3 has a offense that his coach catered to him. He's a above average passer, so if you ask him to drop back as a traditional passer 30-40 times a game, he's not nearly as successful. However when the OC allows him to do what he does best, thats when the offense becomes his.

Same goes for a Tom Brady. Yes Brady does a great job of adjusting to his weapons, however Billichek knows much like all QBs, Brady is a rhythm passer, so he usually starts off with some easier throws for Brady. Shorts crosses, slants and WR screens, they also focus on getting the running game going just enough for the play action to become effective.

That only became his offense as a result of staying in basically the same systems for 7-10yrs. Even when they had Moss and the deep ball was a big part of their offense, they still found easy ways to get Brady in a rhythm early.

The classic example is Peyton. Peyton has always been one of the most talented QBs in the game. Probably since his 2nd season, that Colts offense was considered his. However he still credits guys like Caldwell and Moore for his development. People continue to talk about play calling with Caldwell, Cris Carter made a great point this morning, he talked about how Caldwell is heavily involved in gameplaning for those prolific passing offenses with Peyton.

At the end of the day, we as fans don't see exactly what goes into game planing and which coaches are responsible for putting it together. However what is obvious is that coaches have to come up with a gameplan for a reason. If it was all on the QB, there would be no need for QB/OC/ and offensive assistant coaches. These guys are responsible for making things as easy as possible for the QB to succeed. I agree that QBs need to own their offense and they are responsible for making guys better, however it's the coaches job to put guys in the right position to make plays and i feel thats why Cam didn't keep his job.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1355239928' post='1257825']
There's been a lot of talk about the no-huddle and how Joe is most comfortable in it, and that Caldwell is more likely to let him run what he wants (especially without OC experience). This presents a dilemma. I think there's no doubt Joe looks good in the no-huddle for the most part, however, it leaves the defense on the field way too long, and TOP can be really important. I just am not sure that the payoff is worth it if it takes so much out of the defense.

I think predictability and creativity is what needs the most addressing on the offense, but unless Caldwell has known this was coming for some time now I'm not sure that we can get that.
[/quote]

Disagree. The no huddle doesn't have to be fast. The reason you wanna run the no huddle is to keep the defense on it's heels and less complexed. Even if the offense does score quickly, it doesn't have to hamper the defense.

Even though they have slipped the last 2 weeks, the defense allows more FGs then TDs. So if you force teams to match FGs with TDs, thats a win.

The Ravens are averaging like 30+ points at home and the defense isn't giving up nearly as much. I agree that creativity is big, but i think more importantly is that the Ravens need to remain aggressive when ggetting double digit leads. Staying in the no huddle will allow the Ravens to do this.

[Purple Nurple]

Bring back Zorn now. Joe loved that guy

[The Raven]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1355243363' post='1257916']
Bring back Zorn now. Joe loved that guy
[/quote]

Is Zorn available? I could only imagine how happy Joe would be with Zorn back as QB coach and Caldwell as OC.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355244225' post='1257938']
Is Zorn available? I could only imagine how happy Joe would be with Zorn back as QB coach and Caldwell as OC.
[/quote]

QB coach for the Chiefs. Dont know the contract situation. I agree though, Joe would be super happy to have him back. Nothing wrong with that.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355244225' post='1257938']


Is Zorn available? I could only imagine how happy Joe would be with Zorn back as QB coach and Caldwell as OC.
[/quote]
I thought he was at KC with cassel

[lowrider]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355191372' post='1257074']
NO CONSERVATIVE CRAP! Or I will run you out of town too!
[/quote]
Seems like such a simple statement, but I think you are right. I never understood why when the Ravens get a rhythm, they let up. I am very interested to see how this offense is going to respond.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1355239928' post='1257825']
There's been a lot of talk about the no-huddle and how Joe is most comfortable in it, and that Caldwell is more likely to let him run what he wants (especially without OC experience). This presents a dilemma.[u][b] I think there's no doubt Joe looks good in the no-huddle for the most part, however, it leaves the defense on the field way too long, and TOP can be really important. I just am not sure that the payoff is worth it if it takes so much out of the defense.[/b][/u]

I think predictability and creativity is what needs the most addressing on the offense, but unless Caldwell has known this was coming for some time now I'm not sure that we can get that.
[/quote]

sooo, are you saying that the Ravens offense should "slow it down" and for them NOT try to score as many points as possible? smh! there is NOTHING like taking total control of a game offensively by scoring as many points as quickly as you can. not only does it give your offense tremendous confidence in knowing that; for the most part...they are unstoppable and can make plays to move the chains...it also breaks the spirit and will of your opponents! imo, it also may inspire the defense on the sideline to match the offensives intensity. case & point....last nights game. the patriots jumped all over the texans early and often and went up 21-0 at one point. they didn't let up...they ended with a score of 42-14. lol! to me...many people will try to make this an issue of the fast paced offense vs the defense being on the field....when it need not be! score quick! score fast! take a commanding lead and then....let the defense hunt!

~Mili

[nextgen_RavensFan]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1355239928' post='1257825']
There's been a lot of talk about the no-huddle and how Joe is most comfortable in it, and that Caldwell is more likely to let him run what he wants (especially without OC experience). This presents a dilemma. I think there's no doubt Joe looks good in the no-huddle for the most part, however, it leaves the defense on the field way too long, and TOP can be really important. I just am not sure that the payoff is worth it if it takes so much out of the defense.

I think predictability and creativity is what needs the most addressing on the offense, but unless Caldwell has known this was coming for some time now I'm not sure that we can get that.
[/quote]

Very well said and i agree. We need to get back to basics in coverage, route running. Both sides of the ball have played less then stellar. To many dropped passes, not getting away clean off of the line etc. The defense is a bust at tackling and staying in their zones. To many times have i seen the middle of the field empty of our defense of the first or second guy missing tackles. We cannot afford to give away free yardage.