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Joe Flacco and Torrey Smith


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#1 tctony

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:49 PM

1) Sorry mods if this should go in another thread

2) This is NOT a thread to discuss whether Joe Flacco is elite, should be re-signed, is a good QB, sucks, etc.

Ok.

So why can't Joe and Torrey get these deep balls going? After almost 2 years, they still can not consistently get their timing right. Joe has one of the strongest arms in the league - why can't he hit a deep ball with Torrey to save his life?

Edited by tctony, 09 December 2012 - 10:50 PM.

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#2 SecretAgentMan

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

He underthrows it. Thats all too it.
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#3 Bravens292

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

on some of the replays i saw last year, i saw smith slowing down on his route, underestimating joes arm while the ball sailed over him. this year is more on joe but he seems to judge jacobys speed pretty well so i'm as confused as the next guy. he throws a better deep ball to boldin these days.... smh
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#4 T3hRaven

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

A lot of it has to do with time. Flacco does not feel comfortable in the pocket and very often has a hard time staying alive, so to speak, long enough to get his feet set on these long developing throws. Torrey's faults come into play in this too though. He has a really bad habit of turning off the gas sometimes, which I believe is him giving up on the play, only to have Flacco try to hit him and wind up overshooting before he gets to where he would have been had he not slowed down. Regardless, long bombs are a low completion percentage throw and should not be as big a part of this offense as they are.
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#5 berad

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

In reference to the throw today there were two issues:

1. Joe obviously under-threw it, Torrey had Wilson beat by a good margin

2. Torrey made a bad adjustment to the ball. He slowed down too much which forced him to make a stretching attempt at the pass as it sailed a yard in front of him.

A lot of deep attempts between them look like something like that. Either Joe will throw a poor ball or Torrey will make a bad adjustment / drop it (which happened twice vs Pitt).

That said, they DO hit on a good amount of deep passes. Long attempts are generally hard(er) to complete. I'm also concerned about the 1-2 passes a game that either go over Torrey's head or off too far - is Torrey running the right routes or is Joe just that wild?
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#6 Purple Nurple

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

He underthrows it. Thats all too it.


Lately. I've seen many over throws. Hopefully it'll balance out sooner than later.
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#7 tctony

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

A lot of it has to do with time. Flacco does not feel comfortable in the pocket and very often has a hard time staying alive, so to speak, long enough to get his feet set on these long developing throws. Torrey's faults come into play in this too though. He has a really bad habit of turning off the gas sometimes, which I believe is him giving up on the play, only to have Flacco try to hit him and wind up overshooting before he gets to where he would have been had he not slowed down. Regardless, long bombs are a low completion percentage throw and should not be as big a part of this offense as they are.


I agree that they probably shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.
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#8 kassaiscool

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

Joe has a rocket, but his anticipation needs to get better. That's the only excuse I have for him. His arm is among the strongest in the league, and I have seen him hit people in stride before.
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#9 Militant X 1

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:09 PM

In reference to the throw today there were two issues:

1. Joe obviously under-threw it, Torrey had Wilson beat by a good margin

2. Torrey made a bad adjustment to the ball. He slowed down too much which forced him to make a stretching attempt at the pass as it sailed a yard in front of him.

A lot of deep attempts between them look like something like that. Either Joe will throw a poor ball or Torrey will make a bad adjustment / drop it (which happened twice vs Pitt).

That said, they DO hit on a good amount of deep passes. Long attempts are generally hard(er) to complete. I'm also concerned about the 1-2 passes a game that either go over Torrey's head or off too far - is Torrey running the right routes or is Joe just that wild?


Joe's just that wild! lol!

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#10 berad

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

Joe's just that wild! lol!

~Mili


It seems that way. Otherwise they're inexplicable!
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#11 Ravenslifer

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

I agree that they probably shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.


Hardly any quarterback can complete them consistently, though - that's part of the reason Philip Rivers is always so up and down. If you watch the majority of his deep balls they are lobs, either overthrown or underthrown, the difference is his receivers are giants with a huge catch radius and they make him look more accurate than he is on those passes. He runs the same system we run here, and you can see he had a run of about 3 good seasons and now without VJax and with Gates not nearly the same player he was, Philip Rivers looks average again.
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#12 Cville-Raven

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:14 PM

puts too much drive into them if he could just let Torrey run under it, they'd probably connect more
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#13 T3hRaven

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

I agree that they probably shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.


Not as much as you might think. At deep ranges, covered and uncovered gets blurred a bit depending on the safety's position on the field since you have to account for extra travel time on most of those throws, and a lot of guys are draped close behind on deep throws anyway. Flacco misses a lot because you have to be careful throwing them or they'll get picked off easy because of that.
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#14 K-Dog

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:18 PM

Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.
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#15 SecretAgentMan

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

Joe has a rocket, but his anticipation needs to get better. That's the only excuse I have for him. His arm is among the strongest in the league, and I have seen him hit people in stride before.

Correction, his arm is the strongest in the NFL. But I agree.
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#16 SecretAgentMan

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.

Yep ;p
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#17 Purple Nurple

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:36 PM

Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.


I've been cringing lately when Torrey goes up for those.
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#18 Ravenslifer

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

I still feel the problem with all of these deep passes is that we're trying them at all - so what if your quarterback can throw that far and your receiver is that fast? Like I said, Philip Rivers is supposed to running the same system, but right now he's completing like 30 percent of his passes beyond 20 yards, and it was the same thing in 2011, he got up to maybe 35 percent in 2010, 30 percent in 09, etc. Joe is only completing 15 percent of his passes beyond 20 yards, for whatever reason, and yet he's thrown that far almost 40 times. He's doing much better in the short passing department, but compared to other quarterbacks he's barely thrown short at all. Torrey is so much more than just a deep threat, but in this offense that's all he ever seems to be used as.

Edited by Ravenslifer, 09 December 2012 - 11:38 PM.

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#19 BloodRaven

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:52 PM

Joe has the arm but this system isn't right for him and exposes his weaknesses.
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#20 rayrayven

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

I hate watching Flacco play because he plays spooked. If he could run like Michael Vick or RG3 I have no doubt he would be a galloping fool. Joe just doesn't have the field general vibe going on. Watch a game with Manning or Rodgers or Brees playing with a sense of command and then watch Flacco playing on the verge of panic. A better line might help because Raven's OL is mediocre.
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