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tctony

Joe Flacco and Torrey Smith

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1) Sorry mods if this should go in another thread

2) This is [u][size=5][b]NOT[/b][/size][/u] a thread to discuss whether Joe Flacco is elite, should be re-signed, is a good QB, sucks, etc.

Ok.

So why can't Joe and Torrey get these deep balls going? After almost 2 years, they still can not consistently get their timing right. Joe has one of the strongest arms in the league - why can't he hit a deep ball with Torrey to save his life?
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on some of the replays i saw last year, i saw smith slowing down on his route, underestimating joes arm while the ball sailed over him. this year is more on joe but he seems to judge jacobys speed pretty well so i'm as confused as the next guy. he throws a better deep ball to boldin these days.... smh
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A lot of it has to do with time. Flacco does not feel comfortable in the pocket and very often has a hard time staying alive, so to speak, long enough to get his feet set on these long developing throws. Torrey's faults come into play in this too though. He has a really bad habit of turning off the gas sometimes, which I believe is him giving up on the play, only to have Flacco try to hit him and wind up overshooting before he gets to where he would have been had he not slowed down. Regardless, long bombs are a low completion percentage throw and should not be as big a part of this offense as they are.
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In reference to the throw today there were two issues:

1. Joe obviously under-threw it, Torrey had Wilson beat by a good margin

2. Torrey made a bad adjustment to the ball. He slowed down too much which forced him to make a stretching attempt at the pass as it sailed a yard in front of him.

A lot of deep attempts between them look like something like that. Either Joe will throw a poor ball or Torrey will make a bad adjustment / drop it (which happened twice vs Pitt).

That said, they DO hit on a good amount of deep passes. Long attempts are generally hard(er) to complete. I'm also concerned about the 1-2 passes a game that either go over Torrey's head or off too far - is Torrey running the right routes or is Joe just that wild?
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355111637' post='1254625']
He underthrows it. Thats all too it.
[/quote]

Lately. I've seen many over throws. Hopefully it'll balance out sooner than later.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355111661' post='1254627']
A lot of it has to do with time. Flacco does not feel comfortable in the pocket and very often has a hard time staying alive, so to speak, long enough to get his feet set on these long developing throws. Torrey's faults come into play in this too though. He has a really bad habit of turning off the gas sometimes, which I believe is him giving up on the play, only to have Flacco try to hit him and wind up overshooting before he gets to where he would have been had he not slowed down. Regardless, long bombs are a low completion percentage throw and should not be as big a part of this offense as they are.
[/quote]

I agree that they [i]probably[/i] shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.
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Joe has a rocket, but his anticipation needs to get better. That's the only excuse I have for him. His arm is among the strongest in the league, and I have seen him hit people in stride before.
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1355111720' post='1254629']
In reference to the throw today there were two issues:

1. Joe obviously under-threw it, Torrey had Wilson beat by a good margin

2. Torrey made a bad adjustment to the ball. He slowed down too much which forced him to make a stretching attempt at the pass as it sailed a yard in front of him.

A lot of deep attempts between them look like something like that. Either Joe will throw a poor ball or Torrey will make a bad adjustment / drop it (which happened twice vs Pitt).

That said, they DO hit on a good amount of deep passes. Long attempts are generally hard(er) to complete. I'm also concerned about the 1-2 passes a game that either go over Torrey's head or off too far - [b]is Torrey running the right routes or is Joe just that wild?[/b]
[/quote]

Joe's just that wild! lol!

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355112565' post='1254666']
Joe's just that wild! lol!

~Mili
[/quote]

It seems that way. Otherwise they're inexplicable!
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355111945' post='1254641']
I agree that they [i]probably[/i] shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.
[/quote]

Hardly any quarterback can complete them consistently, though - that's part of the reason Philip Rivers is always so up and down. If you watch the majority of his deep balls they are lobs, either overthrown or underthrown, the difference is his receivers are giants with a huge catch radius and they make him look more accurate than he is on those passes. He runs the same system we run here, and you can see he had a run of about 3 good seasons and now without VJax and with Gates not nearly the same player he was, Philip Rivers looks average again.
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puts too much drive into them if he could just let Torrey run under it, they'd probably connect more
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355111945' post='1254641']
I agree that they [i]probably[/i] shouldn't be as big of a part of our offense as they are, but...they are open so consistently. I wish they could just connect on them.
[/quote]

Not as much as you might think. At deep ranges, covered and uncovered gets blurred a bit depending on the safety's position on the field since you have to account for extra travel time on most of those throws, and a lot of guys are draped close behind on deep throws anyway. Flacco misses a lot because you have to be careful throwing them or they'll get picked off easy because of that.
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Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.
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[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1355112480' post='1254657']
Joe has a rocket, but his anticipation needs to get better. That's the only excuse I have for him. His arm is among the strongest in the league, and I have seen him hit people in stride before.
[/quote]
Correction, his arm is the strongest in the NFL. But I agree.
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355113084' post='1254690']
Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.
[/quote]
Yep ;p
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[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1355113084' post='1254690']
Joe thinks Torrey is seven foot tall with go-go-gadget arms.
[/quote]

I've been cringing lately when Torrey goes up for those.
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I still feel the problem with all of these deep passes is that we're trying them at all - so what if your quarterback can throw that far and your receiver is that fast? Like I said, Philip Rivers is supposed to running the same system, but right now he's completing like 30 percent of his passes beyond 20 yards, and it was the same thing in 2011, he got up to maybe 35 percent in 2010, 30 percent in 09, etc. Joe is only completing 15 percent of his passes beyond 20 yards, for whatever reason, and yet he's thrown that far almost 40 times. He's doing much better in the short passing department, but compared to other quarterbacks he's barely thrown short at all. Torrey is so much more than just a deep threat, but in this offense that's all he ever seems to be used as.
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I hate watching Flacco play because he plays spooked. If he could run like Michael Vick or RG3 I have no doubt he would be a galloping fool. Joe just doesn't have the field general vibe going on. Watch a game with Manning or Rodgers or Brees playing with a sense of command and then watch Flacco playing on the verge of panic. A better line might help because Raven's OL is mediocre.
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Torrey is going deep faaaaaar too often... If it doesnt work stop doing it every plwy. Teams dont even have to defend it
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Joe missed Torrey that had Josh Wilson fried on the sidelines with no safety help. I was already screaming touchdown when the ball left his hands. You can imagine the feel of reality setting in when Torrey slows down, and has to play defense on the underthrow.
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I'm not excusing Joe (who does often overthrow the long balls) but Torrey is inconsistent with his speed. You can watch closely and you'll see him trying to judge the ball instead of trusting that it will be where it is supposed to be. Sadly, he misjudges and thus slows down or speeds up incorrectly.

The two need to work MORE on trusting the ball and receiver will be in the right place at the right time.
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It's unbelievable that a guy with as strong an arm as Joe can continue to under throw Torrey on deep balls... we've missed out on at least 7 or 8 TDs or game-changing plays because of that. It's time for those two to get on the same page.
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joe had 3 yards in the 3rd quarter yesterday. he shouldn't be throwing a deep ball. its rare when other, more experienced QB's throw it because they know that doesn't win games. successful time consuming drives wins game (on offense).
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[quote name='bk31th' timestamp='1355150352' post='1255020']
joe had 3 yards in the 3rd quarter yesterday. he shouldn't be throwing a deep ball. its rare when other, more experienced QB's throw it because they know that doesn't win games. successful time consuming drives wins game (on offense).
[/quote]
He only through the ball 2 times too. I'm all for running the ball, but that seems a little extreme. How many plays did the O run.
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Both have been at fault on some plays but I don't think the miscues on deep balls would be as glaring if semeingly 3/4s Torrey's targets came on them. How does a guy with his talent go 8 of 13 games with three catches or less? It goes back to an OC unwilling to get him involved on shorter plays.
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I personally think these deep balls are starting to hurt our drives, because too many of them are not working out this season.
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[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1355152291' post='1255085']
Both have been at fault on some plays but I don't think the miscues on deep balls would be as glaring if semeingly 3/4s Torrey's targets came on them. How does a guy with his talent go 8 of 13 games with three catches or less? It goes back to an OC unwilling to get him involved on shorter plays.
[/quote]

shorter plays you say? cam-puter says no! long-long-long or round-around-the block or run-run-in the middle
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[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1355111394' post='1254614']
1) Sorry mods if this should go in another thread

2) This is [u][size=5][b]NOT[/b][/size][/u] a thread to discuss whether Joe Flacco is elite, should be re-signed, is a good QB, sucks, etc.

Ok.

So why can't Joe and Torrey get these deep balls going? After almost 2 years, they still can not consistently get their timing right.[b] Joe has one of the strongest arms in the league [/b]- why can't he hit a deep ball with Torrey to save his life?
[/quote]

Maybe this is a myth. We've been spoon fed this for five years, yet he routinely underthrows receivers or overthrows them which I take as blind heaves. Maybe he isn't the cannon armed QB we all think he is. Just saying.
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