Merged: Coaching Decisions that cost us...

[SuggsBarber]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355102575' post='1254088']


My thoughts exactly. Why in the world would a head coach choose to let those precious 29 seconds go at the end of the game? We have all seen Joe drive all the way down the field for a TD in under a minute. He couldn't drive to within Tucker's range for a field goal in 29 seconds with one time out? We couldn't even try? Instead we choose to go into an overtime match with a team that has been running roughshod over our defense for the last 4 quarters? I am stunned, stupefied and amazed at the sheer stupidity of that decision, in a season filled with foolish coaching decisions that was the worst. Sure, there was no guarantee that we would have done much more than make a few yards, but to not even try? At least give Tucker the chance at least.
[/quote]

If it makes any sense, for Harbs it is easier to trust Flacco not to lose it as opposed to trust him to win it.I'm sure Joes two turnovers influenced that some what.

[rlh445]

Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.

[wayne]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355102575' post='1254088']
My thoughts exactly. [b]Why in the world would a head coach choose to let those precious 29 seconds go at the end of the game?[/b] We have all seen Joe drive all the way down the field for a TD in under a minute. He couldn't drive to within Tucker's range for a field goal in 29 seconds with one time out? We couldn't even try? Instead we choose to go into an overtime match with a team that has been running roughshod over our defense for the last 4 quarters? I am stunned, stupefied and amazed at the sheer stupidity of that decision, in a season filled with foolish coaching decisions that was the worst. Sure, there was no guarantee that we would have done much more than make a few yards, but to not even try? At least give Tucker the chance at least.
[/quote]

It's obvious......... the coach doesn't have enough faith in Flacco in those situations.

[ratedr]

If the coaching staff does not trust Flacco they should let him walk.

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1355093246' post='1253423']
Quite simply...

#1) After the Rice TD, we should have gone for two. The risk is that you don't get it, and you're still up by 7, and you lose the chance of winning by stopping the two point convert. The reward is that if you get it, it's now a two possession game and likely over. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt us.

#2) Taking the ball first in OT. The way the rules are set up now, you're MUCH better off to get the ball second, especially given the injury to RGIII. Let a 2nd round rookie try and move the ball, and if he doesn't, you're likely just needing a first down, maybe two, to kick the game winning FG...

Neither of those calls would have been conventional, but either one of them would have given us a better opportunity at winning.
[/quote]once you win the coin toss you have to get ball first so you cant really do anything about it.

[wayne]

To me, the coaching decision that cost us was Pees going with a 3 man line on the 2 pt conversion. You never go with a 3 man rush on a 2 pt conversion which is like 2 yards from the end zone b/c the QB draw is obviously super easy with 6 blockers to 3 D-lineman, smh! I called draw on that before they hiked the ball.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1355103810' post='1254199']
Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, and this is why I think the chosen examples did not lose the game. Harbaugh has done a lot of bad things on the side lines, there are plenty of examples to chose from, but those are not the right ones.

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355104422' post='1254249']
If the coaching staff does not trust Flacco they should let him walk.
[/quote]

Have you seen the QB class this year? There are no saviors in this draft class for any franchise, let alone one stuck with a later pick. And there isn't a Peyton Manning waiting to be hired this off-season as a FA, and even if there was why would he want to play behind an offensive line that is that bad? I've tried to be a Flacco supporter in the past, he makes it really difficult sometimes, but regardless of what you think of him he is probably the best option available. Maybe an intelligent coaching staff could use him better, and that seems like the only way to make this team better in the next 3-4 seasons. Look what the good Harbaugh brother did with Alex Smith. Coaching really does matter, and Flacco has certainly shown more than Alex Smith ever has.

[ratedr]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355104874' post='1254279']
You're absolutely right, and this is why I think the chosen examples did not lose the game. Harbaugh has done a lot of bad things on the side lines, there are plenty of examples to chose from, but those are not the right ones.



Have you seen the QB class this year? There are no saviors in this draft class for any franchise, let alone one stuck with a later pick. And there isn't a Peyton Manning waiting to be hired this off-season as a FA, and even if there was why would he want to play behind an offensive line that is that bad? I've tried to be a Flacco supporter in the past, he makes it really difficult sometimes, but regardless of what you think of him he is probably the best option available. Maybe an intelligent coaching staff could use him better, and that seems like the only way to make this team better in the next 3-4 seasons. Look what the good Harbaugh brother did with Alex Smith. Coaching really does matter, and Flacco has certainly shown more than Alex Smith ever has.
[/quote]I agree completely, I'm just saying if you don't believe in him, why keep him around?

Maybe Flacco turns the ball over, but maybe he scores. It's a risk you have to take, at least before the half. That's an indictment of the coaching staff's cowardice more than Flacco imo.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355105348' post='1254309']
I agree completely, I'm just saying if you don't believe in him, why keep him around?

Maybe Flacco turns the ball over, but maybe he scores. It's a risk you have to take, at least before the half. That's an indictment of the coaching staff's cowardice more than Flacco imo.
[/quote]

Absolutely man, you gotta take the shot. And it's not the first time the coaching staff has done that this season. Have some stones, go for the win.

[Malkavian Raven]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1355103810' post='1254199']
Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
[/quote]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]So, what you're saying is -- if the Ravens failed the two-point conversion and were still up by seven. You being Shanahan would drive down the field, score six and then attempt a two-pointer to win the game as opposed to just kicking a field goal to tie it up? You'd really be willing to risk that?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Just asking. 'Cause I think that would go against your philosophy of missing opportunities of putting points up on the board.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]

[redlobster]

[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1355105745' post='1254333']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]So, what you're saying is -- [b]if the Ravens failed the two-point conversion and were still up by seven. You being Shanahan would drive down the field, score six and then attempt a two-pointer to win the game as opposed to just kicking a field goal to tie it up? You'd really be willing to risk that?[/b][/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Just asking. 'Cause I think that would go against your philosophy of missing opportunities of putting points up on the board.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]

my exact thoughts and I even made mention of the 2 pt conversion in the "in game thread" asking " do you go for 2 here?" knowing that if you miss your still up by 7 and if you make it, its a two score game.

[PuRock]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1355109101' post='1254513']
my exact thoughts and I even made mention of the 2 pt conversion in the "in game thread" asking " do you go for 2 here?" knowing that if you miss your still up by 7 and if you make it, its a two score game.
[/quote]

Thought process is usually that its easier to stop a 2 pt conversion then make it. They were counting on the fact that we had a shot to end the game with a 2 point conversion stop w/ an extra point. It obviously backfired.

[redlobster]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1355109423' post='1254530']
Thought process is usually that its easier to stop a 2 pt conversion then make it. They were counting on the fact that we had a shot to end the game with a 2 point conversion stop w/ an extra point. It obviously backfired.
[/quote]

I will agree with that statement but they made it look easy

[wizard1]

When we scored the last touchdown to go up 27 to 20 why didn't we go for 2 points and make it a two score game 29 to 20. By going for the PAT we still left it a 1 score game. It wouldn't have made any difference if we didn't make the two point conversion we still would have been up 27 to 20. It was a bad coaching call and one more reason the Ravens will be out of the playoffs.

[Greatness]

No. We shouldn't have allowed a TD with 4 minutes left and an 8 point lead. Yeah, that sounds like a better one.

[The King]

If we miss on the two point conversion we allow them to tie it with a PAT. As was we forced them to take a two point conversion which we should have been able to stop. That coaching decision may not be the best one, but it's hardly the open-and-shut case you make it out to be.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The coaching blunders were again abundant. There was obvious tension and disagreement between Coach Harbaugh and Cam Cameron on whether to attept to get into FG position or run out the clock at the end of the 1st half w/ 44 seconds left. I think running out the clock in that situation was the right call but there were other costly mistakes too. I also questioned not going for two after the Rice TD but the worst coaching lapse was calling a pass play on 3rd down and 6 at the Redskins' 11 yard line with an empty backfield. There was nobody back there with Flacco to pick up the blitze and he threw an interception. That was a 6 point swing. We would have kicked a FG and the INT led to a Redsins FG. That was what ultimately snatched another defeat from the jaws of victory and kept us from winning in the final analysis. Notwithstanding Joe's poor execution on the ill-advised play, it was a stupid call in the first place. Wasting a timeout on a fake Punt play which wasn't run was equally dumb. It was almost as dumb as the wasted challenge by Coach Harbaugh last week. Someone should also teach Michael Oher that it is better to get called for holding than to let his starting QB get blind-sided. Its a tad ironic that there is a movie about Michael called The Blind Side. Maybe that's our problem. Maybe Leanne Tuohy is calling the plays! Seriously, he is too slow to be a left tackle.

I think Joe was making progress under Zorn; I think he 's regressing under Caldwell. Its time for major coaching changes after the season is over. If we don't [u][b]win our Division[/b][/u], we should start cleaning house during the off-season from top to bottom.

Mike Shanahan's talk with his players seems to have worked. When they lost earlier in the year, he told them that it was time to think about who would be on the team next year . Since then, they have won 4 in a row. A Head Coach must be a master psychologist. I don't think that is one of Harbaugh's strong suits. John wants to be the players' BFF, which is different than being a players' coach like Andy Reid. Oh, they won today! Bring back Coach Billick! At least he can call his own offensive plays and win a Super Bowl with a much less gifted QB. What a waste of talent!!!

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

no, we should've gone for the fg position with 29 seconds left in the game and a timeout... at least a couple of shots down field to torrey... or boldin on hall

[nk02442]

The team rolled over and died when it got the lead, like it always does......

with 45 seconds, the ball and 2 time outs they didnt even try to get a atleast a fieldgoal

And that is reason number 76 our coaches need to be gone , all of them.

[funky141]

Many things contribute to the loss.
4 minutes left, up 8 and letting the Skins drive to tie the game
not trying for a FG with 29 seconds and a time out
not playing good punt defense and allowing a big return

[Tank 92]

Of all the criticisms of coaching decisions I think this one is probably the most warranted. Worst case we go for two, miss, and they kick the extra point to send the game into OT. Make it and we create a two score lead. I thought this while RR was flexing his biceps in the end zone, but also felt there was little chance that the skins would drive for a TD much less get a two point conversion. The D was playing well in the 4th and it seemed like we were home free.

This decision didn't lose the game, just like not trying to get a FG at half, or the bad call on the fumble or anything else that happened during the course of the game. We lost the by allowing the TD drive and the two point play. Period. Yes, more points would have won the game, but at the end we were positioned to win and the fact remains that less points for the skins was the answer. Our DBs just flat out choked again when it mattered most.

[arnie_uk]

I don't think going for two would have been the right call, the defence played well the second half, trust your d to stop them.

That shambles at the end of the first half, calling a draw then a timeout, then just giving up after getting a first down was a shambles. 45 seconds, 2 timeouts, you need what 50 yards for fg range, you can do that easily, we were ripping them apart in the first half. You kick a fg, take momentum into the half and then get the first ball ipad the second half we could have killed the game.

Harbs didn't make it clear what he wanted, he has a sideline row with cam, then we come out flat and conservative in the second half.

Then 30 seconds 1 timeout and 50 yards for fg range again is doable. You don't knee it out, especially after how the offense minus one drive sucked in the second half, and the defence just let cousins score on them. You have to try and get out of there without going to overtime, the skins had all momentum.

Poor coaching by harbaugh. We also could have had two timeouts left if we didnt waste one on that ridiculous fake punt whatever the hell that was meant to be.

[Slim]

[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1355093246' post='1253423']
Quite simply...

#1) After the Rice TD, we should have gone for two. The risk is that you don't get it, and you're still up by 7, and you lose the chance of winning by stopping the two point convert. The reward is that if you get it, it's now a two possession game and likely over. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt us.

[/quote]

A couple of years back I would've said, let's go for one and put it on our D's shoulders, not anymore, if we can kill the game let's do it !

[jaege]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1355103810' post='1254199']
Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
[/quote]

The two point conversion is a hindsight issue. I agree completely. At the time how would w know that they would even get a TD much less te conversion themlves.

As to making a play with time on the clock? I can tell you that NE would not have rolled over and let that time go. I saw Lady Brady, last season, with seconds on the clock, go for a long bomb to try and get a few more points on the board. He did it. And just last season we saw Joe go 92 yards in under minute for thegame winning TD. So he couldn't at least try to go 35 or 40 yards to give Tucker a chance at a long field goal to win the game. If you think that cannot be done then you spend too much time with your Madden toys, "kiddo".

[Desert]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1355093630' post='1253457']
You drive down the field with 29secs and 1 timeout to get in field goal range....bottom line!
[/quote]

I totally agree with this statement, even my wife asked about this during the game....

Desert

[MTRavensFan]

[quote name='i82much' timestamp='1355098597' post='1253846']
I can deal with losing, but least die with your boots on.
[/quote]
Exactly!

Cameron's decisions? Deserves to be fired,

BallSoHard - Montana chapter

[redrum52]

Keeping Cam for this long and not bringing in Mike Nolan when he was available, with no offense to Pees. I just ready like Nolan as a DC.

[DHaran]

[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1355093246' post='1253423']#2) Taking the ball first in OT. The way the rules are set up now, you're MUCH better off to get the ball second, especially given the injury to RGIII. Let a 2nd round rookie try and move the ball, and if he doesn't, you're likely just needing a first down, maybe two, to kick the game winning FG...

Neither of those calls would have been conventional, but either one of them would have given us a better opportunity at winning.
[/quote]

Ummmm, what? If they score a TD the game is over.... you absolutely positively NEVER give the ball to the other team in OT, doesn't matter what team or who is QB. I'm going to assume you're just confused about the OT rules to even suggest that....

[i82much]

I think this goes back to protection issues. The turnovers yesterday and last week are why this happened now.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

As far as coaching decisions go i think one that actually bit us in the rear in the second half was Oher at LT while Mckinnie sat yet again. I like Mckinnie at LT and if he were in there i do not see Joe losing the ball. What do the coach's have against Mckinnie and why hurt the team by sitting him. You are also putting Joe in jeopardy of taking hits from the backside.