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PDO

Merged: Coaching Decisions that cost us...

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Quite simply...

#1) After the Rice TD, we should have gone for two. The risk is that you don't get it, and you're still up by 7, and you lose the chance of winning by stopping the two point convert. The reward is that if you get it, it's now a two possession game and likely over. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt us.

#2) Taking the ball first in OT. The way the rules are set up now, you're MUCH better off to get the ball second, especially given the injury to RGIII. Let a 2nd round rookie try and move the ball, and if he doesn't, you're likely just needing a first down, maybe two, to kick the game winning FG...

Neither of those calls would have been conventional, but either one of them would have given us a better opportunity at winning.
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[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1355093246' post='1253423']
Quite simply...

#1) After the Rice TD, we should have gone for two. The risk is that you don't get it, and you're still up by 7, and you lose the chance of winning by stopping the two point convert. The reward is that if you get it, it's now a two possession game and likely over. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt us.
[/quote]
I actually thought about that as well. The defense was getting gashed again because they're plugs. Belichick would have gone for it. I think most coaches would have.
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Yes, because we had a much better chance of holding them to a field goal then marching and scoring a TD on our first possession. We all know why that is.
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You drive down the field with 29secs and 1 timeout to get in field goal range....bottom line!
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Chicken-crap, playing scared, cowardice. Timid BS that is just not good enough to get us to the promised land.
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I was sort of wondering why they didn't try to throw the ball deep down the field on the last drive before halftime. You at least try for one long pass.
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Horrible, horrible coaching decisions.
29 seconds, 2 time outs, and we just lay down and give up?
Total lack of confidence in your players, fearful play-calling is no way to win a game, much less a championship.

As much as I love Harbs, whoever is responsible for that decision deserves to be fired. Our guys played their hearts out, they deserve better than this.
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[quote name='display name' timestamp='1355096239' post='1253680']
Harbs is a great offseason/motivational coach. B[b]ut a terrible in-game coach.[/b]
Terrible.
[/quote]
He is chicken out and thought if we hold on to the lead, we will win; but but with 28th ranked defense in the league??

wow....I agree Harbs has been an outstanding coach in the offseason but in game is just horrific as ever been.

PS: what's up with playing not to lose or playing 60 min game?
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[quote name='MTRavensFan' timestamp='1355096644' post='1253708']
Horrible, horrible coaching decisions.
[b]29 seconds, 2 time outs,[/b] and we just lay down and give up?
Total lack of confidence in your players, fearful play-calling is no way to win a game, much less a championship.

As much as I love Harbs, whoever is responsible for that decision deserves to be fired. Our guys played their hearts out, they deserve better than this.
[/quote]
It's like you have 2min running offense without timeout...stupid not to put some more points against hot coming RGIII offense. Besides, does Harbs still think our used to be defense bail us out again?
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Did this irritate anyone else?

Before the half you have 44 sec and two TOs, yet you take the knee?

Before the end of the regulation, 30 secs and a timeout, and again, you take the knee?

Why not give one of the best kickers in the league a shot? Where is the killer instinct on this coaching staff? And if you (the coaches) have so little faith in Flacco to move the ball, then why do you want him here?
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355098204' post='1253821']
Did this irritate anyone else?

Before the half you have 44 sec and two TOs, yet you take the knee?

Before the end of the regulation, 30 secs and a timeout, and again, you take the knee?

Why not give one of the best kickers in the league a shot? Where is the killer instinct on this coaching staff? And if you (the coaches) have so little faith in Flacco to move the ball, then why do you want him here?
[/quote]
And if there's a fumble or a tipped pass you'd give the game away. If it's under 45 seconds, which is statistically about 10 yards, you have a much greater chance of losing going for it. It's called playing smart.
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[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1355098303' post='1253826']
And if there's a fumble or a tipped pass you'd give the game away. If it's under 45 seconds, which is statistically about 10 yards, you have a much greater chance of losing going for it. It's called playing smart.
[/quote]I can understand not doing it at the end of regulation, where a mistake loses the game.

But why not do it before the half, when you not only have the lead, but you get the ball to start the second half? That to me is cowardice.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355098390' post='1253833']
I can understand not doing it at the end of regulation, where a mistake loses the game.

But why not do it before the half, when you not only have the lead, but you get the ball to start the second half? That to me is cowardice.
[/quote]

Because it's 30 seconds left, and in obvious passing situations your QB can get hurt. If there's a minute on the clock you go for it. If there's 50 it depends. If it's 40 or less, you don't go for it. Period. Unless you get the ball around the 40.
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That's Harbs' gameplan ahead of time; let's play convervative and not turning the ball over. Well, we turn over the ball 2 times during crucial time. I think Harbs is choking badly, not believing in his players......

It's downright horrific for our coaching staffs.....
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[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1355098610' post='1253848']
Because it's 30 seconds left, and in obvious passing situations your QB can get hurt. If there's a minute on the clock you go for it. If there's 50 it depends. If it's 40 or less, you don't go for it. Period. Unless you get the ball around the 40.
[/quote]It was 44 seconds with 2 timeouts in your pocket.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355098762' post='1253854']
It was 44 seconds with 2 timeouts in your pocket.
[/quote]
We were at the 20 right?
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Totally agree with both of these points, I just think that once again Harbs (i love the guy, but he's a little bit of a softie) stuck to the safe side of things. Although deep passes at the end of the 2nd and 4th quarter could have cost turnovers, have you ever heard of the expression 'go down fighting'? Plain and simple, the coaches and the players laid down for Washington today.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one that was wondering, "Why aren't we going for two here?" after the Rice touchdown. Also, you'd think with 0:29 we'd at least take a couple of shots down the field to try to get a field goal. Either scenario would've equaled a "W" today.

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]My question is, can anyone confirm or deny if the kickoff to Jacoby was in-bounds or out-of-bounds? Not looking for another excuse, but it looked like Jacoby was near the five-yard line before he gave up catching it in-bounds.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355098204' post='1253821']
Did this irritate anyone else?

Before the half you have 44 sec and two TOs, yet you take the knee?

Before the end of the regulation, 30 secs and a timeout, and again, you take the knee?

Why not give one of the best kickers in the league a shot? Where is the killer instinct on this coaching staff? And if you (the coaches) have so little faith in Flacco to move the ball, then why do you want him here?
[/quote]

You are right. Period. Bottom line. They played it scared and conservative. That gets you beat everytime. I can't think of one SB caliber coach that wouldn't have tried for more points in the halftime situation AT A MINIMUM. They rather lose trying than bending over. Let the players decide it, not terrible judgment from weak coaches.

Plus, if they truly believed in Flacco they would have gone for points especially against a "weak" secondary like the Skins. Everything the coaches say is lip service. We know that now.
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Hey! Don't worry guys! We're 9-4! You act like we're a fraudulent 9-win team with holes and a horrific coaching staff who can't make adjustments and living off player talent! We'll be fine! No need to panic even though we have 4 games left and still haven't clinched our division! DON'T WORRY! Keep that faith! I trust in Harbaugh, Killa Cam and The Dean...Pees!

Wait a minute...

We didn't attempt to score at the end of the half or at the end of the game? lol, playing not to lose and lose.
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Harbaugh is horrible at situational football to be sure, but I don't think that those specific decisions cost the team this game.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355101228' post='1253992']
Harbaugh is horrible at situational football to be sure, but I don't think that those specific decisions cost the team this game.
[/quote]

You're right! It was our D coordinator insisting that blitzes are a thing of the past. We let Kirk Cousins... let me please repeat that. KIRK COUSINS CLUTCH US! Are you kidding me!
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[quote name='Greatness' timestamp='1355101374' post='1254005']
You're right! It was our D coordinator insisting that blitzes are a thing of the past. We let Kirk Cousins... let me please repeat that. KIRK COUSINS CLUTCH US! Are you kidding me!
[/quote]

You really shouldn't be surprised, they let Charlie Batch do the same thing last week.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355101457' post='1254016']
You really shouldn't be surprised, they let Charlie Batch do the same thing last week.
[/quote]I can forgive Batch, who a) is on a team who knows us inside and out and b ) has NFL experience and has won in this league in the past.

Cousins though? Unforgivable.
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[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1355093630' post='1253457']
You drive down the field with 29secs and 1 timeout to get in field goal range....bottom line!
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Why in the world would a head coach choose to let those precious 29 seconds go at the end of the game? We have all seen Joe drive all the way down the field for a TD in under a minute. He couldn't drive to within Tucker's range for a field goal in 29 seconds with one time out? We couldn't even try? Instead we choose to go into an overtime match with a team that has been running roughshod over our defense for the last 4 quarters? I am stunned, stupefied and amazed at the sheer stupidity of that decision, in a season filled with foolish coaching decisions that was the worst. Sure, there was no guarantee that we would have done much more than make a few yards, but to not even try? At least give Tucker the chance at least.
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This week feels like Groundhog's Day (last week). The dreary rainy Monday is gonna' be hard to face! Can't wait to hear the Coach's Report at four o'clock tomorrow afternoon ::eyeroll::
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355102575' post='1254088']


My thoughts exactly. Why in the world would a head coach choose to let those precious 29 seconds go at the end of the game? We have all seen Joe drive all the way down the field for a TD in under a minute. He couldn't drive to within Tucker's range for a field goal in 29 seconds with one time out? We couldn't even try? Instead we choose to go into an overtime match with a team that has been running roughshod over our defense for the last 4 quarters? I am stunned, stupefied and amazed at the sheer stupidity of that decision, in a season filled with foolish coaching decisions that was the worst. Sure, there was no guarantee that we would have done much more than make a few yards, but to not even try? At least give Tucker the chance at least.
[/quote]

If it makes any sense, for Harbs it is easier to trust Flacco not to lose it as opposed to trust him to win it.I'm sure Joes two turnovers influenced that some what.
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:lol: Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown :lol: what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1355102575' post='1254088']
My thoughts exactly. [b]Why in the world would a head coach choose to let those precious 29 seconds go at the end of the game?[/b] We have all seen Joe drive all the way down the field for a TD in under a minute. He couldn't drive to within Tucker's range for a field goal in 29 seconds with one time out? We couldn't even try? Instead we choose to go into an overtime match with a team that has been running roughshod over our defense for the last 4 quarters? I am stunned, stupefied and amazed at the sheer stupidity of that decision, in a season filled with foolish coaching decisions that was the worst. Sure, there was no guarantee that we would have done much more than make a few yards, but to not even try? At least give Tucker the chance at least.
[/quote]

It's obvious......... the coach doesn't have enough faith in Flacco in those situations.
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[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1355093246' post='1253423']
Quite simply...

#1) After the Rice TD, we should have gone for two. The risk is that you don't get it, and you're still up by 7, and you lose the chance of winning by stopping the two point convert. The reward is that if you get it, it's now a two possession game and likely over. Maybe they get it, maybe they don't, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt us.

#2) Taking the ball first in OT. The way the rules are set up now, you're MUCH better off to get the ball second, especially given the injury to RGIII. Let a 2nd round rookie try and move the ball, and if he doesn't, you're likely just needing a first down, maybe two, to kick the game winning FG...

Neither of those calls would have been conventional, but either one of them would have given us a better opportunity at winning.
[/quote]once you win the coin toss you have to get ball first so you cant really do anything about it.
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To me, the coaching decision that cost us was Pees going with a 3 man line on the 2 pt conversion. You never go with a 3 man rush on a 2 pt conversion which is like 2 yards from the end zone b/c the QB draw is obviously super easy with 6 blockers to 3 D-lineman, smh! I called draw on that before they hiked the ball.
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[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1355103810' post='1254199']
:lol: Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown :lol: what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, and this is why I think the chosen examples did not lose the game. Harbaugh has done a lot of bad things on the side lines, there are plenty of examples to chose from, but those are not the right ones.

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355104422' post='1254249']
If the coaching staff does not trust Flacco they should let him walk.
[/quote]

Have you seen the QB class this year? There are no saviors in this draft class for any franchise, let alone one stuck with a later pick. And there isn't a Peyton Manning waiting to be hired this off-season as a FA, and even if there was why would he want to play behind an offensive line that is that bad? I've tried to be a Flacco supporter in the past, he makes it really difficult sometimes, but regardless of what you think of him he is probably the best option available. Maybe an intelligent coaching staff could use him better, and that seems like the only way to make this team better in the next 3-4 seasons. Look what the good Harbaugh brother did with Alex Smith. Coaching really does matter, and Flacco has certainly shown more than Alex Smith ever has.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1355104874' post='1254279']
You're absolutely right, and this is why I think the chosen examples did not lose the game. Harbaugh has done a lot of bad things on the side lines, there are plenty of examples to chose from, but those are not the right ones.



Have you seen the QB class this year? There are no saviors in this draft class for any franchise, let alone one stuck with a later pick. And there isn't a Peyton Manning waiting to be hired this off-season as a FA, and even if there was why would he want to play behind an offensive line that is that bad? I've tried to be a Flacco supporter in the past, he makes it really difficult sometimes, but regardless of what you think of him he is probably the best option available. Maybe an intelligent coaching staff could use him better, and that seems like the only way to make this team better in the next 3-4 seasons. Look what the good Harbaugh brother did with Alex Smith. Coaching really does matter, and Flacco has certainly shown more than Alex Smith ever has.
[/quote]I agree completely, I'm just saying if you don't believe in him, why keep him around?

Maybe Flacco turns the ball over, but maybe he scores. It's a risk you have to take, at least before the half. That's an indictment of the coaching staff's cowardice more than Flacco imo.
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[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1355105348' post='1254309']
I agree completely, I'm just saying if you don't believe in him, why keep him around?

Maybe Flacco turns the ball over, but maybe he scores. It's a risk you have to take, at least before the half. That's an indictment of the coaching staff's cowardice more than Flacco imo.
[/quote]

Absolutely man, you gotta take the shot. And it's not the first time the coaching staff has done that this season. Have some stones, go for the win.
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[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1355103810' post='1254199']
:lol: Yes, Hindsight Children, it makes perfect sense to try and go down the length of the field with 29 seconds left and a timeout. Suuuuuuuuuuure. This isn't Madden kiddos, no way was that going to be a possibility. Gimme a break, guys. Also, I love the hindsighting of saying we should have gone for two after Ray Rice's touchdown :lol: what are you, high? Nobody in the NFL does that, ever except in hindsight by fans. You don't take a chance on missing putting points on after the touchdown so that if they come down and get the two pointer, they win.
[/quote]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]So, what you're saying is -- if the Ravens failed the two-point conversion and were still up by seven. You being Shanahan would drive down the field, score six and then attempt a two-pointer to win the game as opposed to just kicking a field goal to tie it up? You'd really be willing to risk that?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Just asking. 'Cause I think that would go against your philosophy of missing opportunities of putting points up on the board.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
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[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1355105745' post='1254333']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]So, what you're saying is -- [b]if the Ravens failed the two-point conversion and were still up by seven. You being Shanahan would drive down the field, score six and then attempt a two-pointer to win the game as opposed to just kicking a field goal to tie it up? You'd really be willing to risk that?[/b][/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Just asking. 'Cause I think that would go against your philosophy of missing opportunities of putting points up on the board.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]

my exact thoughts and I even made mention of the 2 pt conversion in the "in game thread" asking " do you go for 2 here?" knowing that if you miss your still up by 7 and if you make it, its a two score game.
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[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1355109101' post='1254513']
my exact thoughts and I even made mention of the 2 pt conversion in the "in game thread" asking " do you go for 2 here?" knowing that if you miss your still up by 7 and if you make it, its a two score game.
[/quote]

Thought process is usually that its easier to stop a 2 pt conversion then make it. They were counting on the fact that we had a shot to end the game with a 2 point conversion stop w/ an extra point. It obviously backfired.
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[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1355109423' post='1254530']
Thought process is usually that its easier to stop a 2 pt conversion then make it. They were counting on the fact that we had a shot to end the game with a 2 point conversion stop w/ an extra point. It obviously backfired.
[/quote]

I will agree with that statement but they made it look easy
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When we scored the last touchdown to go up 27 to 20 why didn't we go for 2 points and make it a two score game 29 to 20. By going for the PAT we still left it a 1 score game. It wouldn't have made any difference if we didn't make the two point conversion we still would have been up 27 to 20. It was a bad coaching call and one more reason the Ravens will be out of the playoffs.
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No. We shouldn't have allowed a TD with 4 minutes left and an 8 point lead. Yeah, that sounds like a better one.
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If we miss on the two point conversion we allow them to tie it with a PAT. As was we forced them to take a two point conversion which we should have been able to stop. That coaching decision may not be the best one, but it's hardly the open-and-shut case you make it out to be.
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The coaching blunders were again abundant. There was obvious tension and disagreement between Coach Harbaugh and Cam Cameron on whether to attept to get into FG position or run out the clock at the end of the 1st half w/ 44 seconds left. I think running out the clock in that situation was the right call but there were other costly mistakes too. I also questioned not going for two after the Rice TD but the worst coaching lapse was calling a pass play on 3rd down and 6 at the Redskins' 11 yard line with an empty backfield. There was nobody back there with Flacco to pick up the blitze and he threw an interception. That was a 6 point swing. We would have kicked a FG and the INT led to a Redsins FG. That was what ultimately snatched another defeat from the jaws of victory and kept us from winning in the final analysis. Notwithstanding Joe's poor execution on the ill-advised play, it was a stupid call in the first place. Wasting a timeout on a fake Punt play which wasn't run was equally dumb. It was almost as dumb as the wasted challenge by Coach Harbaugh last week. Someone should also teach Michael Oher that it is better to get called for holding than to let his starting QB get blind-sided. Its a tad ironic that there is a movie about Michael called The Blind Side. Maybe that's our problem. Maybe Leanne Tuohy is calling the plays! Seriously, he is too slow to be a left tackle.

I think Joe was making progress under Zorn; I think he 's regressing under Caldwell. Its time for major coaching changes after the season is over. If we don't [u][b]win our Division[/b][/u], we should start cleaning house during the off-season from top to bottom.

Mike Shanahan's talk with his players seems to have worked. When they lost earlier in the year, he told them that it was time to think about who would be on the team next year . Since then, they have won 4 in a row. A Head Coach must be a master psychologist. I don't think that is one of Harbaugh's strong suits. John wants to be the players' BFF, which is different than being a players' coach like Andy Reid. Oh, they won today! Bring back Coach Billick! At least he can call his own offensive plays and win a Super Bowl with a much less gifted QB. What a waste of talent!!!
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no, we should've gone for the fg position with 29 seconds left in the game and a timeout... at least a couple of shots down field to torrey... or boldin on hall
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The team rolled over and died when it got the lead, like it always does......

with 45 seconds, the ball and 2 time outs they didnt even try to get a atleast a fieldgoal

And that is reason number 76 our coaches need to be gone , all of them.
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Many things contribute to the loss.
4 minutes left, up 8 and letting the Skins drive to tie the game
not trying for a FG with 29 seconds and a time out
not playing good punt defense and allowing a big return
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