Who exactly are these 2012 Ravens?

[PurpleCityLights]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1354638667' post='1246351']
We are a self-feeding problem. We are 9-3 so no change will happen. We win enough games and go to the playoffs so no changes will be made. When we lose the problems are "fixable" and we limp along until the next loss and address the same "fixable" problems again. Yes, health has played a huge part in our struggles. The playcalling has undeniably been the other part. If it was a pie chart it would be 80/20.
[/quote]

This.

[JO_75]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1354597243' post='1245973']
Its crazy, though:

NE game was a "controversial" FG away from being something different.
KC game we needed 4 gifts or the outcome was something different.
Dallas game was a missed FG away from being something different.
Pitt game 1 was a starting QB away from being something different.
San Diego game was a 4th and 29 away from being something different.

I tend to be pretty positive, but damn, we are nearly 4-8!
[/quote]

Destiny my friend, destiny. Look at the Giants in 2007, they had a horrible stretch of losing games in the regular season, Coughlin was on the hot seat then boom, they turned it on for the post-season and won the Super Bowl. So who knows, it may just happen to us as well.

[Gashman]

Are we a crappily coached team that is lucky to have a winning record?

[nextgen_RavensFan]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1354638678' post='1246352']
but this does´t work.
we are 9-3 for a reason.
it wash´t all about being lucky.

we took ourselves in the positions to win those games.

if we were 4-8, would it make you feel any better that we are that close to be 9-3? No. so it should´t make you feel worse that we are 9-3 right now and could be 4-8.

the positive thing is that we played not the best football we are able to play and still stand 9-3.

will we be in the SB this year? probably not. why? because i don´t think that we can beat the texans in their home stadium in the AFC title game.

so if you are realistic with your thoughts your day might be better :-)
[/quote]

You are right, we are where we are because we are almost a complete team. Special teams at times has scored our only touchdowns this year in games and so has defensive interceptions for touchdowns. We have that something that that allows us to come away with wins in many fashions. We are not a STRONG 9-3 but we are a team that wins on many different levels and it is not always an offense that wins games. We have play makers in all 3 aspects of our game and we are very blessed in that aspect. If Joe has a bad game most times we will get that score from some other means and sometimes we wont but a winning club can score from any side of the ball or situation and that we can do.

I think that make sus exciting and has led me to be a nail biter on Sundays. I think by the end of this season i will have an ulcer as i get to into the game and get upset but when it is all said and done we come out with the W.

[Latch]

We are a poorly coached, injured team that has talent and potential busting from it's seams. Although I don't like to use the word 'luck' when describing their record, the football gods definitely had a hand in our 9-3 season. Their identity is unclear at this point and probably will be unclear until the end of the season, but right now they're the grittiest team that I've seen in a long time. Analysts don't seem to understand how much effort it takes to 'squeak out' a 'lucky' victory.

[jaege]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1354597243' post='1245973']
Its crazy, though:

NE game was a "controversial" FG away from being something different.
KC game we needed 4 gifts or the outcome was something different.
Dallas game was a missed FG away from being something different.
Pitt game 1 was a starting QB away from being something different.
San Diego game was a 4th and 29 away from being something different.

I tend to be pretty positive, but damn, we are nearly 4-8!
[/quote]

But we are just as nearly 12 and 0. "What if"s and could, shoulda, woulda are meaningless. We cannot [b]know[/b] what would have happened, since it didnt happen. Never was going to happen. What did happen is exactly what was supposed to happen and the only thing that could happen given all the injuries, weather, and what have you. The only thing we can say for certain is that we are 9-3 and we have been playing questionably. Sometimes fair, sometimes bad.

And also Cam sucks,

[PuRock]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1354644739' post='1246508']
But we are just as nearly 12 and 0. "[b]What if"s and could, shoulda, woulda are meaningless. We cannot know what would have happened, since it didnt happen. Never was going to happen.[/b] What did happen is exactly what was supposed to happen and the only thing that could happen given all the injuries, weather, and what have you. The only thing we can say for certain is that we are 9-3 and we have been playing questionably. Sometimes fair, sometimes bad.

And also Cam sucks,
[/quote]

Yep. I hate that game. I can go to every team in the NFL playoff race and say would've, should've this. It can go either way. Unless your best friends with Doc Brown who has given you keys to a juiced up ride, no one can predict.

[jaege]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1354645178' post='1246519']
Yep. I hate that game. I can go to every team in the NFL playoff race and say would've, should've this. It can go either way. Unless your best friend with Doc Brown who has given you keys to a juiced up ride, no one can predict.
[/quote]

That is my pet peeve. It is one thing to play the "suppose" game, but to say we "coulda been" with any semblance of belief, it just seems foolish and pointless. Anything "coulda" happened, it just didnt.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

We all do have to admit though we have plugged a lot of holes with some decent guys, Graham, Ihedigbo, Ellerbe and finally Kruger is going at it and getting pressure. Now to see Upshaw jump in and be a part of the show as i know he has the speed and strebgth he just needs to slow the game down.

[bpytnjr58]

Yes 9-3 is great but they are still the same Offense that has been on a leash since 2008.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

There are a lot of great posts on this thread! It is difficult to put a finger on what the problem is and answering the topic question but I agree with most of what has been said. Our team is a conundrum. It is true that great teams find ways to win even when they are not playing well. They are able to ride the crest of an emotional wave and they can even rise above a lot of adversity. Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. However, Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It seems like we fit that definition. Yes, we have as gritty of a team as there is in the NFL but something is sorely missing. Motivation comes from within but morale starts at the top. Great teams should also be able to win most of their games when they score twenty points or more. In two of our three losses, we scored 20 points or more but our defense was not up to the task of limiting our opponent to less than 20 points. Let's face it! Our defense is starting to show some wear and tear and it has played hurt for most of the year. There have been years since 2000 when we should have gone to the SB and didn't for one reason or another. Maybe this will be the year we get to the SB when we really didn't seem good enough to get there. It will take some luck and some different game plans in order for us to get there. Calling the same ole plays over and over again is a recipe for disaster. Based on what I saw last night, we will have a hard time beating either the Skins or the Giants and the game with Peyton looms huge. We need to win at least two of the last four games, which looks like a daunting task at this point. They say the cream always rises to the top but the vanilla flavor of our offense is starting to taste bland due to some uncreative play-calling and poor execution.

[jimmypowder]

With the injuries ,they are alot worse then the 2011 Ravens.

Last year's team was a Super Bowl team,this year's team is a 1 and done playoff team ,sad to say.

[Ravenslifer]

People are going to hate this, but who were the 2000 Ravens, the 2002 Bucs, the 2007 and 2011 Giants, the 2001 Patriots? Fact is, we won't know anything until playoff time - there always seems like a surefire contender that falls flat on their face in their first playoff game i.e. when the Saints got taken out by the Seahawks, and there's always a team, like the 2008 Cardinals, who surprises everyone.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1354593083' post='1245894']
To answer your question a Cam Cameron led Ravens on Offense, and an injured Defense.
[/quote]

The defense suffers from too much time on the field and the offense suffers from not enough time on the field.

[Gashman]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1354642672' post='1246475']


Destiny my friend, destiny. Look at the Giants in 2007, they had a horrible stretch of losing games in the regular season, Coughlin was on the hot seat then boom, they turned it on for the post-season and won the Super Bowl. So who knows, it may just happen to us as well.
[/quote]

That gives the coaching staff a pass on lack of accountability

[CorvusCorax]

The world may never know...

[D_UP]

The Ravens are either going to win the Super Bowl or their not. End of story.

[display name]

Pees' playcalling looked a lot like before the bye for some reason.
And on offense, the whole identity issue and refusing to establish/stick to the run...

[baroquenspirit]

[quote name='slowhand' timestamp='1354603866' post='1246065']
A team that is being held back by two coordinators who are stuck in their ways and refuse to adapt.

I have seen this happen in other sports, where a coach will go to a new team and bring his gameplans and strategies with him, and just seems unwilling to adapt, and believes if you keep trying to pound square pegs into round holes they will eventually fit.

This Ravens team has a ton of talent, their record speaks to that. We have some coordinators who just aren't utilizing the players to the best of their abilities however, which is why the team hasn't come even close to realizing their full potential. Harbaugh needs to smarten up really soon, and find some coaches who are willing to work with the tools our players have, otherwise it might cost him his job as well, which would be really unfortunate.
[/quote]

Did any of you guys ever consider that your coordinators might be responsible for your 5 straight trips to the post season? Did it ever occur to you that the same football minds who drafted the team you have picked your coaches and obviously believe in them? Teams that are below .500 and don't make the playoffs would love to have your "problem". smh

[PuRock]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1354676804' post='1247070']
Did any of you guys ever consider that your coordinators might be responsible for your 5 straight trips to the post season? Did it ever occur to you that the same football minds who drafted the team you have picked your coaches and obviously believe in them? Teams that are below .500 and don't make the playoffs would love to have your "problem". smh
[/quote]

Damn straight. Spoiled I tell you! Don't forget Super Bowls grow on trees and are ripe for the plucking.

[Alexir]

The 2012 Baltimore Ravens remind me a lot of the Washington Capitals after they won the president's trophy. They've peaked, they are injured and I believe there will be some coaching changes to try and keep the locker room.

[The Prestige]

DISCLAIMER: If you think Torrey Smith, Ray Rice, Anquan Boldin, Deonte Thompson, La'Quan Williams and Jacoby Jones either aren't great or can't play, then you will disagree with this assessment.

The Ravens are a perfect storm.

IF - because I still hope they are victorious, though it's going to be hard - they end up not winning a Super Bowl, here is why they are a perfect storm:

1. Rex Ryan could've been the head coach if he hadn't have been so brash. While I don't know who he would've brought in as OC, I'm sure he would've been better than Cam Cameron.

2. Rex doesn't get the job, so it goes to John Harbaugh, who excels at getting them to play hard (I think the leaders on defense and offense can do that without him) and at special teams, but has no use for Joe Flacco's arm and the incredible talent at wide receiver (unless...yep, special teams).

3. Cam Cameron torpedoed the primes of Joe Flacco and Ray Rice, and has his sights on ruining Torrey Smith's prime, not to mention wasting the twilight of Ray Lewis' and Ed Reed's careers.

4. Joe Flacco should have all the leverage given that he's the franchise quarterback and his back-up has all of 0 career starts, but he's such a nice guy that he won't stand up and DEMAND an offense that he likes and is comfortable in. It's not easy to bench yourself or refuse to play, but Marc Bulger did that to Scott Linehan for the Rams.


If ANY of these factors weren't existent or were different than they are/were (Rex Ryan being prideful, John Harbaugh not understanding how today's NFL's rules and playmakers work, Cam Cameron being stubborn, Joe Flacco being meek), the Ravens would have won the Super Bowl in 2010, maybe had home-field and won it in 2011, and definitely would be on their way to winning it this season.

[Suggs Package]

I think people get "identity" confused with talent and execution. People say that teams need to find their identities when they're not particularly good at executing an offense or defense. Good teams have an "identity" because they are good at some aspect of the game.

The Ravens, believe it or not, are a passing team. Very few teams are better off running than passing most of the time (SF, Min, KC, Jax, and Ari). All of those teams have questions at QB, and only SF has a winning record. In today's NFL, its hard to be a winning football team and be a run oriented team. Look at all the teams who ran all over us and still lost. The FO and coaches realize this and that's why the offense operates the way it does. Defensively, the Ravens are better at defending the pass than defending the run. They're among the lead leaders in passes defensed and among the lowest in sacks, pressures, etc.

Basically, the Ravens are a boom or bust, inefficient but risk-adverse passing offensive team. Defensively, they're a pass defensed oriented team focused on coverage.

Read this article about football identity, I always reference this when this topic comes up: http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/features/2011/nfl_2011/week_11/nfl_offense_running_for_three_yards_is_like_going_backwards_.html

[J-man]

A team who loses to Charlie Batch at home does not deserve a playoff spot.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1354684201' post='1247144']
The 2012 Baltimore Ravens remind me a lot of the Washington Capitals after they won the president's trophy. They've peaked, they are injured and I believe there will be some coaching changes to try and keep the locker room.
[/quote]


When exactly did they peak? Opening Day against the bengals?

I think they have underachieved most of the year and are due for an upswing, hopefully beginning this week. Just a feeling that runs against all of the signals.

Who are the 2012 Ravens? To paraphrase a rant by Dennis Green, " they aren't who we thought they were!". But I still luv em'.

[Alexir]

[quote name='awholelottahaloti' timestamp='1354817068' post='1248105']
When exactly did they peak? Opening Day against the bengals?

I think they have underachieved most of the year and are due for an upswing, hopefully beginning this week. Just a feeling that runs against all of the signals.

Who are the 2012 Ravens? To paraphrase a rant by Dennis Green, " they aren't who we thought they were!". But I still luv em'.
[/quote]

They peaked when they blew it against Patriots last January. To me, they just haven't been the same. I think that locker room isn't savable until Cam goes.

[Gashman]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1354840972' post='1248439']


They peaked when they blew it against Patriots last January. To me, they just haven't been the same. I think that locker room isn't savable until Cam goes.
[/quote]

Bingo!

I am starting to worry about Harbaugh now. If he continues to let this passing game continue as is, he will make the bullseye bigger on himself. People want to see the playmakers on offense make plays. It's pretty hard for that to happen if our route tree is outs and 9's.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1354840972' post='1248439']


They peaked when they blew it against Patriots last January. To me, they just haven't been the same. I think that locker room isn't savable until Cam goes.
[/quote]


I think I'm with you. To lose the way they did had to be a huge mental blow. And the parade of injuries has just kept on coming. And the ball and chain(cam) remains. Maybe too much to enable a recovery.

The practical, rational side of me thinks we are probably done for the year. Just not enough horses to pull the wagon. But call it "wearing purple shades" or whatever, there is still a chance some folks step up and over achieve and the Ravens get it done. Stranger things have happened.

[JEEPercreepermd]

This is the epitomy of a Jeckyll and Hyde team. They change from game to game, heck even from quarter to quarter. There's the team that hung 44 points on the Bengals and came pretty close to scoring 60 against Oakland..then there's the Offense that we've seen in pretty much every other game. Short 3 and out's, missed opportunities, terrible Oline play, stagnant Offensive strategy all around.

Still though, this team isn't like some of the others in the league who just quit fighting when the chips are down. Adversity seems to band them together, and they find ways to win games that they shouldn't win (San Diego, Pittsburgh,Dallas,)

The defensive struggles have evened out, well at least the front 7 has been playing solid against the run. Kruger and Jones have really been our only pass rush..and they've only gotten hot over the past few weeks. Not making excuses at all but just look at how many new starters we have..and how many other guys are seeing good bits of time that normally would only play in mop up duty. We didn't have Suggs to start the season..which hurt but hurt even worse one Haloti was playing at about 50% because of injury, then Ray goes down, Webb goes down, Jimmy Smith goes down,Then we get both Haloti and Suggs back close to %100 and Suggs goes down again last week. Now Ellerbe too I guess. There have just been too many moving parts this year for the defense to keep pace. Still though, they have been playing admirably..good enough to win given the offense can remove it's head from it's own keester.

Then there's Flacco. Let's face it. He's having a down year. I'm not a Flacco basher by any means, but the Coaching staff really needs to sit down and think long and hard on how to get him back into some kind of rythm, and rebuild the confidence. Ray Rice can only carry us so far.

This stretch of the season is going to make or break us. If we can grab 3 of the last 4 games (which is not far fetched imo) then we finish 12-4, and most likely get the #2 seed again. That is the best possible scenario for us, because for some reason I see Houston getting upset in the Divisional round, which would give us a home AFCC.

It just seems like this team, the one who finds ways to WIN but has issues may just get there over Ravens teams of years past who were much more solid, yet would find was to LOSE games.

[redrum52]

[quote name='baroquenspirit' timestamp='1354676804' post='1247070']
Did any of you guys ever consider that your coordinators might be responsible for your 5 straight trips to the post season? Did it ever occur to you that the same football minds who drafted the team you have picked your coaches and obviously believe in them? Teams that are below .500 and don't make the playoffs would love to have your "problem". smh
[/quote]


You shut your mouth. Your team has 6 rings, 8 appearances and a qb who comes up big in the clutch. I hate but respect your team. You've at least recently witnessed your team win 2 rings with another trip to the big game. Not only that but you coaches take responsibility for losses while ours make excuses. Wasn't it last year you all complained about the direction Arians was taking your team? Cam to me has directly cost us games with his playcalling and Harbaugh as well with him mismanagement of time outs and challenges. Then there is the fact Cam is still here after 2 years of inconsistent offense and continuous 3 and outs. It seems there's no in between with the offense. They are either really good or terrible. Um... What was the thread topic again?