Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[ratedr]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350938720' post='1200826']
Every team has great players on both sides of the ball. Some more than others, Who were Brady's receivers when they won the Superbowl who were his tight ends? Sure the defense was great but every Superbowl champion has had a good defense, or at least a hot one. The point is it didn't matter who you put around guys like Brady, and Peyton, because they elevate the players around them to elite status. So just take a chill pill bro.
[/quote]I agree. Our offensive weapons are pretty good. Not fantastic, but good enough to have some offensive firepower, as we've seen in our home games. Look at Denver too - I would hardly say they have elite weapons at WR, but with an elite QB, it doesn't matter. Granted, Peyton is one of the best ever, but the point stands.

I get on Joe at lot on this site but believe it or not I have defended him quite a bit offline (I work with too many Steelers and Patriots fans not to), but the list of excuses is growing rather thin.

That said, I do believe it all starts with Cam. Flacco isn't losing skill on the road, the WRs don't forget how to separate on the road, it's all about gameplanning. I think the brass made a HUGE mistake not firing Cam last year and giving Flacco a new coordinator in his contract year. Maybe it good for the Ravens...if Flacco ends up cheaper and explodes with a new OC like Rivers and Brees post-Cam, then the team saves a huge chunk of $$$ against the cap.

[arnie_uk]

Just watched the safety again. My oh my oh my I didn't think it was that damn noticeable.

Before the snap there was a guy lined up to birks right, between him and yanda, I think it was smith, then mercilus I thnk, number 53 on Williams and Barwin was lined up on oher.

Then it happens, yanda slaps birk,smith slides over on top of Williams, causing Williams to block him, oher then has to pull inside to block mercilus, or whoever 53 is and then that leaves Barwin untouched.

They knew the snap count, point blank, yanda slaps birk, birk looks between his legs and presto, snapped.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1350936092' post='1200711']
I'm telling you, [u][b]we're having an identity crisis. We don't who we are.[/b][/u] It's a shame really, we have talented guys. [u][b]I try to keep my faith in Flacco, but it diminishes week after week. I[/b][/u] still think we should use our TE's for blocking, give him more time, and see what he can do. I don't know what else to say.

[u][b]I feel like we're trying to push it into EVERYONES mind that Joe Flacco is ELITE[/b][/u]. Just let him be a QB. Manage the game. I'd rather have a game manager and win games than have a coordinator trying to push an elite QB down our throats.
[/quote]

i hear where you're coming from but Flacco's gameplay and what i see with my own eyes determines whether or not i think that he's elite! not what others say!

~Mili

[D-Rey]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1350938443' post='1200816']
It almost seemed like Yanda was doing something to signal Birk to snap. I kept noticing it (maybe it was Birk), but it was pretty noticeable that something was giving away the snap.
[/quote]They do it every game, I don't know why

[D-Rey]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1350937926' post='1200780']
So flacco doesn't benefit from any good, and matt ryan has everything so good? I'm not buying that. If Joe wasn't on this team I doubt he wins as much playoff games if any. This defense literally carries him year in and year out(besides this year so far). That Jaguars game last year which Joe and the whole offense just sucked cost us everything. If we won that game we would have home field throughout the playoffs and new england would have had to come to Bmore. They blew it because the offense did absolutely nothing. I'm tired of hearing excuses for flacco.
[/quote]Without Joe we don't go to the playoffs, so......

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The Houston game was not one of Joe's best games --- that's for sure. Most of the time he didn't have adequate time to throw. The Texans were all over him and in his face a lot. Unless the play of our O-line improves dramatically, Joe will not make it through the season healthy. He simply needs more protection. Ben Rothlisberger got a lot of blocking help last night from Heath Miller and Heath still contributed to the offense by catching some passes. Joe took more direct hits yesterday than Joe Frazier took against Ali in their last fight. Our defense is no longer the dominant force it once was and we need to face up to that. The blocking scheme against an all-out blitz on the safety play caught the Ravens off-guard. It looked like a prison break and set the tone for the rest of the half. We were flat out whipped hy a better team yesterday. Could some of the tipped passes have anything to do with JJ Watts' 55 inch standing vertical jump? Hats off to T-Sizzle! That was a remarkable display of courage, guts and athletic ability.

I thought at the beginning of the season our division would be the black & blue division in the AFC. I still see it that way. If we go 5-5 for the rest of the season (including yesterday's loss to the Texans), we will win the division and our final record will be 10-6, Unfortunately, the future is now. We need a victory in Cleveland to finish the 1st half of the season 6-2. With our killer schedule, we will be lucky to go 4-4 in the second half. This may sound pessimistic to some but it is realistic, given some of the adversity we will have to overcome. On a positive note, I love the way our team keeps playing despite the lop-sided score in losing efforts. Kudos to Osel, Reed, Nagata and Suggs! Hurry back, Ray!

[PuRock]

[quote name='D-Rey' timestamp='1350941097' post='1200891']
They do it every game, I don't know why
[/quote]

I know why they do it. The crowd noise and our tendency to play out of the shotgun formation.

Everytime we went shotgun and Yanda/Birk cued the snap, there was a crazy fast rush on Flacco. The safety and second INT came off shotgun plays where it looked like the snap was cued.

[wizard1]

I wasn't going to say anything this season. I was going to let the season play out and see where things end up but " I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore". Do we really have to go through another year of the Flacco rollercoaster-really??? Please if there is a God in Heaven don't renew this bums contract. He is not getting any better-in fact he is playing worse than last year. He is not elite he is PeeWee Herman. How embarrassing in the interview on national TV when he was asked about J.J. Watts and he said he was just" going to do what he does". Yeah thats right PeeWee keep doin what your doin! I hate to say it folks but " turn out the lights the partys over"!

[Bravens292]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1350943092' post='1200928']
I wasn't going to say anything this season. I was going to let the season play out and see where things end up but " I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore". Do we really have to go through another year of the Flacco rollercoaster-really??? Please if there is a God in Heaven don't renew this bums contract. He is not getting any better-in fact he is playing worse than last year. He is not elite he is PeeWee Herman. How embarrassing in the interview on national TV when he was asked about J.J. Watts and he said he was just" going to do what he does". Yeah thats right PeeWee keep doin what your doin! I hate to say it folks but " turn out the lights the partys over"!
[/quote]

you can hope and hope all you want but he will be here for many more years to come. i suggest you stop being a ravens fan if you can't handle that.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1350941538' post='1200902']
I know why they do it. The crowd noise and our tendency to play out of the shotgun formation.

Everytime we went shotgun and Yanda/Birk cued the snap, there was a crazy fast rush on Flacco. The safety and second INT came off shotgun plays where it looked like the snap was cued.
[/quote]

I've noticed the Yanda thing. My son and I were talking about it during yesterday's game. He doesn't set with the rest of the line, then raises up slightly and sets. Almost looks like false start.

[ellicottraven]

The bottom line as I see it is that Flacco needs to improve his play on the road. But I also see a few impediments in that happening. One is the callous (almost nonchalant) attitude he displays when he plays poorly. The second is the self belief that he is the best QB out there. Between the two, I don't see how there would be drive in him to improve game to game. I just don't...

My advice to Joe. Feel the pain of the loss more than you do. Also, feel the energy of a win more than you do! Reconcile to the notion that you are not the best QB in the league at this point - far from it! You are a great talent, but this is an evolving league, so please keep up with the league... passion is what drives performance - so develop it!

[ratedr]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1350943825' post='1200946']
The bottom line as I see it is that Flacco needs to improve his play on the road. But I also see a few impediments in that happening. One is the callous (almost nonchalant) attitude he displays when he plays poorly. The second is the self belief that he is the best QB out there. Between the two, I don't see how there would be drive in him to improve game to game. I just don't...

My advice to Joe. Feel the pain of the loss more than you do. Also, feel the energy of a win more than you do! Reconcile to the notion that you are not the best QB in the league at this point - far from it! You are a great talent, but this is an evolving league, so please keep up with the league... passion is what drives performance - so develop it!
[/quote]Well said. I'm not one to criticize Flacco's demeanor. His original comments about being "the best" were taken out of context, but he's been fanning the flames whenever he's asked about it. He needs to walk the walk if he's gonna talk the talk. He said after the Bengals game he's not getting any cheaper. Let Ozzie decide that and just focus on your game.

[kassaiscool]

[quote name='D-Rey' timestamp='1350941133' post='1200892']
Without Joe we don't go to the playoffs, so......
[/quote]

Joe was pretty average last year. Similar stats to Dalton and he was a rookie.

[ratedr]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1350944671' post='1200957']


Joe was pretty average last year. Similar stats to Dalton and he was a rookie.
[/quote]Stats don't win games. Dalton doesn't win the games vs. the Steelers that gave us the bye.

[kassaiscool]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350945080' post='1200968']
Stats don't win games. Dalton doesn't win the games vs. the Steelers that gave us the bye.
[/quote]

They don't win games but they are important, to players, GM's, and owners. If Flacco's had the same stats as Aaron rodgers this year, he would get paid big time.

[ratedr]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1350945664' post='1200982']


They don't win games but they are important, to players, GM's, and owners. If Flacco's had the same stats as Aaron rodgers this year, he would get paid big time.
[/quote]They're only important if they come with wins. Ask Dallas.

[TimeEdReed]

At this rate Flacco can forget that 90 mil, more like expect the franchise tag next season.

[mdrsharon]

I don't care about other QB's and I don't care about the "elite" tags.

All I want is consistancy - that is something we have struggled with for 5 years.
Lots of passes yesterday had their d-line hands all over them. Not good.

Yes, Joe needs protection and support.
Yes, we need receivers to actually catch the ball.

Remember the first game of this year... 40 points, we looked awesome.
Where is that team?
Yesterday was a bad game, we haven't looked really strong since the opener.
Joe has that "tenative" feel - not a real strong and determined presence. He needs to take command and make things happen - that is what will win games, not that hang dog "what do we do next" feeling.

C'mon Ravens, let's get Ray another ring, and after Suggs awesome comeback - those guys deserve better play.

Joe see

[wizard1]

I think we all need to turn out the Flacco lights-anybody looked at Bollers stats and Flaccos stats-Hmmmm Kinda eerily similar and eerily similar demeanor's. I know this is Halloween and all but did anyone notice Kyle Boller lurking around M&T Bank Stadium-shush yo mouth

[Tank 92]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1350946512' post='1201004']
I don't care about other QB's and I don't care about the "elite" tags.

All I want is consistancy - that is something we have struggled with for 5 years.
Lots of passes yesterday had their d-line hands all over them. Not good.

Yes, Joe needs protection and support.
Yes, we need receivers to actually catch the ball.

Remember the first game of this year... 40 points, we looked awesome.
Where is that team?
Yesterday was a bad game, we haven't looked really strong since the opener.
Joe has that "tenative" feel - not a real strong and determined presence. He needs to take command and make things happen - that is what will win games, not that hang dog "what do we do next" feeling.

C'mon Ravens, let's get Ray another ring, and after Suggs awesome comeback - those guys deserve better play.

Joe see
[/quote]

Good post. Joe see what?

[Mick0311]

I'm not calling for Tyrod, nor am I buying the "time to throw" crap either. Was he hurried at times, even sacked? Yes. But, he was also missing open receivers standing still. He looked like garbage the other day. I like Flacco a lot, but Sunday was tough to watch. I know people are going to roll their eyes at this, but I'm also sick of watching him mope around on the sideline or sitting on the bench staring around after a tough drive. He just seems so removed at times, it's frustrating.

[RavensPunkXVX]

I think that's the deal with a lot of fans. Frustrating. We have such high expectations for Joe and our offense, and then they go and flop. If you're having problems with protections, bring in a TE to BLOCK, that's it. Then, it will be on the receivers to get separation, and if they notice a blitz, Flacco has to get out of it, audible, call quick routes and get the ball out of his hands.

I'd like to see Joe show a little more emotion, he reminds me a lot of Jason Campbell. I say Jason in terms of EMOTION, not gameplay haha. But my dad is a skins fan so I got a large dose of him, but the guys face never changes. Granted, I have seen Flacco get mad, and excited, and what not. But after a sack, three and out, or pick, he just lowers his head, and walks to the sideline, nothing. That has nothing to do with his game plan, but I wish he'd get mad or something. haha

I hope they're able to pick up these easy blocks in the future, like the safety in the endzone, the Troy P. hit that caused the fumble. A QB has to see those payers on the edge and call in a block. Bring in extra blockers, give Joe time, WR's get separation, perfect right?

[The Raven]

[quote name='wizard1' timestamp='1350947180' post='1201015']
I think we all need to turn out the Flacco lights-anybody looked at Bollers stats and Flaccos stats-Hmmmm Kinda eerily similar and eerily similar demeanor's. I know this is Halloween and all but did anyone notice Kyle Boller lurking around M&T Bank Stadium-[b]shush yo mouth[/b]
[/quote]

That's the idea. We'd all appreciate it!

[rlh445]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1350945664' post='1200982']
They don't win games but they are important, to players, GM's, and owners. If Flacco's had the same stats as Aaron rodgers this year, he would get paid big time.
[/quote]

Dude, I don't know how long you've been here, but when you've got ratedr defending Joe Flacco and making someone else look more controversial then him, it's probably best if you just leave it alone. Some of you ought to check out the Gang Green message boards. At this point they're willing to trade Mark Sanchez for a bum that sits outside their stadium and a bag of nachos. It's not just us .

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350877942' post='1199733']
I've said before that Eli is basically an improved version of Flacco.

Difference is Flacco will alternate great games with crap games. Eli will have a string of crap games then save his string of great games for the end of the season.
[/quote]
That's the one thing I actually agree with!

[Alexir]

Joe Flacco threads always pop up when he has a below average game and it seems like its every other week this year.

Want him to do better? Take the ball out of his hands and put it in Rices and only throw it 40% of the time. Run Ray Run!

[Tank 92]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350877942' post='1199733']
I've said before that Eli is basically an improved version of Flacco.

Difference is Flacco will alternate great games with crap games. Eli will have a string of crap games then save his string of great games for the end of the season.
[/quote]


Hmmmm.......... How many bad games has Joe had at the end of the season/post season?

[redrum52]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1350936223' post='1200718']
See my post above.

Anyway my argument isn't an "argument" - it's fact. ATL weapons > BAL weapons. You don't need to believe Joe is a good QB to see this.

They are mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

Matt Ryan ability to read a defense> Flaccos

He also releases the ball faster.

I think Joe can be great. I also think Joe needs to man up and start accepting responsibility. If you see the plan isn't working forget the play and audible. Cam leaves hm back there like a sitting duck. Th fact he's never missed a game is amazing to me but he's eventually going to get hurt playing like this. If what your being told to do isn't working buck the system. If you ask me he's worth more to the team than Cam in long run so if he's changing losing plays to winning plays I doubt the team would be too angry at him.

Every year people hat someone else to beam but Joe. The best qb in the league doesn't have performances like this. People blame the o line but isn't Joe mobile? Big Ben's line is atrocious and has been yet he still succeeds. I don't see play like this from Ben. People say if he had Brady's line he wou ld look better. If Brady had Rice he would be godly. Rodgers line isn't that good and Peyton has Ben behind bad lines as well but you know what? They make the lines look good. Joe needs to get the bAll out faster. That's why Rodgers and Peyton look so good. They aren't afraid to throw into tight windows right when th ball is snapped. Joe sits there and plays pitty pat with the football why there are chances to get short yards. Those short yards add up though and wear out defenses. For our no huddle to do damage that's what we need Joe to do. Stop forcing it to Torrey deep and take what the defense gives him and that doesn't mean just dump it off to Rice every time. There are plenty times I see people open over the middle for easy completions but he doesn't either see them or throw. I don't know if it's what he reads or he's just scared but for some reason he doesn't seem too good working the middle of the field which I would think is that easiest place to get quick yards. Or line is much better than it gets credit for and so is our wr core. The problem is mostly that OC and partially the qb.

[SizzleSuggs55]

Im a tad surprised with our O-line, because they looked real solid the first 3 games, now...well i guess i need not comment further, but it's just a head scratcher. We have a pro bowl guard, and KO is pro bowl talent, maybe not as a rookie but by far one of the better tackles to come out of this years draft class.

[admartian]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1350952733' post='1201116']
Matt Ryan ability to read a defense> Flaccos

He also releases the ball faster.

I think Joe can be great. I also think Joe needs to man up and start accepting responsibility. If you see the plan isn't working forget the play and audible. Cam leaves hm back there like a sitting duck. Th fact he's never missed a game is amazing to me but he's eventually going to get hurt playing like this. If what your being told to do isn't working buck the system. If you ask me he's worth more to the team than Cam in long run so if he's changing losing plays to winning plays I doubt the team would be too angry at him.

Every year people hat someone else to beam but Joe. The best qb in the league doesn't have performances like this. People blame the o line but isn't Joe mobile? Big Ben's line is atrocious and has been yet he still succeeds. I don't see play like this from Ben. People say if he had Brady's line he wou ld look better. If Brady had Rice he would be godly. Rodgers line isn't that good and Peyton has Ben behind bad lines as well but you know what? They make the lines look good. Joe needs to get the bAll out faster. That's why Rodgers and Peyton look so good. They aren't afraid to throw into tight windows right when th ball is snapped. Joe sits there and plays pitty pat with the football why there are chances to get short yards. Those short yards add up though and wear out defenses. For our no huddle to do damage that's what we need Joe to do. Stop forcing it to Torrey deep and take what the defense gives him and that doesn't mean just dump it off to Rice every time. There are plenty times I see people open over the middle for easy completions but he doesn't either see them or throw. I don't know if it's what he reads or he's just scared but for some reason he doesn't seem too good working the middle of the field which I would think is that easiest place to get quick yards. Or line is much better than it gets credit for and so is our wr core. The problem is mostly that OC and partially the qb.
[/quote]Maybe, just maybe you're right...