Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[ravens rule]

I really can't stand our offense because they can't execute whatsoever. How is it that the line can't block, recievers can't get open, Qb can't make quick reads. Every week we are having the same disscusion.The Packers do not have a complex offense (best Qb in the league though) like the Pats offense, yet they execute, and Arods recievers get open for him .We have way too much talent on offense to keep having poor games like this. I don't care I have to blame coaching because they don't know how to use personal.

[BmoreInBmore]

I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed since 09

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you again but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350927835' post='1200477']
Funny from Texans fans, who had every excuse ready when we swept them last year.
[/quote]
Agreed. And if there is a rematch in the playoffs all the pressure will be on them. It's why I was glad we didn't have to face the Seelers in the playoffs last year. Sweeping them in the regular season and than losing in the playoffs would be horrible. Hopefully we can do that to Houston this year.

[admartian]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1350878779' post='1199756']
No doubt Rodgers is better then both.... Thats not even a question.... I just feel like I just feel like thw Matt Ryan has more [b]weapons then Flacco when Flacco has weapons himself is a built in excuse..[/b]... I would not trade our weapons for nothing in the world.. I feel like we have some of the best... Saying that.. Flacco has weapons to.

[/quote]lol it's not an excuse if it's real.

If a 200 pound anvil crushes a 10 ounce tin can; it does it because it's heavier. It's not a "built in" excuse.

Roddy and Julio, and Tony; together, are an elite group of receivers to throw to.

Defenses key in on Torrey whenever Q or Jacoby or Pitta can't get open. Just listen to the commentators (national broadcast ones) that consistently say our WRs don't get open. Is Joe inconsistent? Sure.

But don't let that fool you that if he had the ATL trio that he wouldn't be a bit more consistent.


Thank you.

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350935442' post='1200693']
I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed since 09

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you again but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.
[/quote]

While I agree to an extent - Joe needs the right coach to the best of his abilities. He's not gonna be a guy that can make WR1 or WR2 or 3 or 4 etc etc look like world beaters. He's not Brees or Rodgers in that regard.

He [i][b]is [/b][/i]talented, just not ion the way those guys are.

Joe needs talent around him tog et open. He can be clutch,. Just not consistently so.

I truly believe we can win a ring with him. Just not the way we're trying to do it with Cam's stubborn and un-imaginative playcalling and scheme.

We've seen what we can do with Joe + Cam. Time to let Cam go and see what happens with Joe with a different guy,

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1350935619' post='1200698']
lol it's not an excuse if it's real.

If a 200 pound anvil crushes a 10 ounce tin can; it does it because it's heavier. It's not a "built in" excuse.

Roddy and Julio, and Tony; together, are an elite group of receivers to throw to.

Defenses key in on Torrey whenever Q or Jacoby or Pitta can't get open. Just listen to the commentators (national broadcast ones) that consistently say our WRs don't get open. Is Joe inconsistent? Sure.

But don't let that fool you that if he had the ATL trio that he wouldn't be a bit more consistent.


Thank you.
[/quote]

When you look at truly Elite Qb's their weapons don't make them, they make their weapons. Who were Brady's weapons when he won three Superbowls?

Look at Peyton, he turns Stokely, Collie, Gonzalez, and Tamme into Pro Bowlers.

Last year when Gates, Floyd, and Jackson went down what did Rivers do? had a 400 yard passing game with Seyi Ajirotutu as his number one.

You argument is ridiculous, What the commentators say? That is what you are judging our recievers by? I heard Chris Collinsworth once say Joe was one of the most mobile Qb's in the League. I guess that must be true, so obviously everything they say is a fact.

Give me a break, stop making dumb excuses so you can sleep better at night.

[RavensPunkXVX]

I'm telling you, we're having an identity crisis. We don't who we are. It's a shame really, we have talented guys. I try to keep my faith in Flacco, but it diminishes week after week. I still think we should use our TE's for blocking, give him more time, and see what he can do. I don't know what else to say.

I feel like we're trying to push it into EVERYONES mind that Joe Flacco is ELITE. Just let him be a QB. Manage the game. I'd rather have a game manager and win games than have a coordinator trying to push an elite QB down our throats.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350935442' post='1200693']
I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed since 09

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you again but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.
[/quote]awh your that guy. The guy that roots for the team to get beat and joe to play poor to prove a point.. Wich now is totally incorrect..

[ratedr]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350935442' post='1200693']
I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed since 09

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you again but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.
[/quote]I have to agree with this, though I would still like to see him under a new coordinator.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1350935619' post='1200698']
lol it's not an excuse if it's real.

If a 200 pound anvil crushes a 10 ounce tin can; it does it because it's heavier. It's not a "built in" excuse.

Roddy and Julio, and Tony; together, are an elite group of receivers to throw to.

Defenses key in on Torrey whenever Q or Jacoby or Pitta can't get open. Just listen to the commentators (national broadcast ones) that consistently say our WRs don't get open. Is Joe inconsistent? Sure.

But don't let that fool you that if he had the ATL trio that he wouldn't be a bit more consistent.


Thank you.



While I agree to an extent - Joe needs the right coach to the best of his abilities. He's not gonna be a guy that can make WR1 or WR2 or 3 or 4 etc etc look like world beaters. He's not Brees or Rodgers in that regard.

He [i][b]is [/b][/i]talented, just not ion the way those guys are.

Joe needs talent around him tog et open. He can be clutch,. Just not consistently so.

[b]I truly believe we can win a ring with him. Just not the way we're trying to do it with Cam's stubborn and un-imaginative playcalling and scheme.[/b]

[b]We've seen what we can do with Joe + Cam. Time to let Cam go and see what happens with Joe with a different guy,[/b]
[/quote]

I competely agree

[admartian]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936025' post='1200710']
When you look at truly Elite Qb's their weapons don't make them, they make their weapons. Who were Brady's weapons when he won three Superbowls?

Look at Peyton, he turns Stokely, Collie, Gonzalez, and Tamme into Pro Bowlers.

Last year when Gates, Floyd, and Jackson went down what did Rivers do? had a 400 yard passing game with Seyi Ajirotutu as his number one.

You argument is ridiculous, What the commentators say? That is what you are judging our recievers by? I heard Chris Collinsworth once say Joe was one of the most mobile Qb's in the League. I guess that must be true, so obviously everything they say is a fact.

Give me a break, stop making dumb excuses so you can sleep better at night.
[/quote][quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936025' post='1200710']
When you look at truly Elite Qb's their weapons don't make them, they make their weapons. Who were Brady's weapons when he won three Superbowls?

Look at Peyton, he turns Stokely, Collie, Gonzalez, and Tamme into Pro Bowlers.

Last year when Gates, Floyd, and Jackson went down what did Rivers do? had a 400 yard passing game with Seyi Ajirotutu as his number one.

You argument is ridiculous, What the commentators say? That is what you are judging our recievers by? I heard Chris Collinsworth once say Joe was one of the most mobile Qb's in the League. I guess that must be true, so obviously everything they say is a fact.

Give me a break, stop making dumb excuses so you can sleep better at night.
[/quote]See my post above.

Anyway my argument isn't an "argument" - it's fact. ATL weapons > BAL weapons. You don't need to believe Joe is a good QB to see this.

They are mutually exclusive.

[admartian]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936204' post='1200717']
I competely agree
[/quote]lol thanks for seeing that.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1350936100' post='1200712']
awh your that guy. The guy that roots for the team to get beat and joe to play poor to prove a point.. Wich now is totally incorrect..
[/quote]

The only thing incorrect is you, I never wish this team to lose, but when it happens im not going to silence myself. And who are you MR. Self Rithgeous? The judge of Ravens fans? Your Fanship is just sooooooo much greater than everyone else's so you have free range to Judge all Ravens fans you don't agree with?

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1350936223' post='1200718']
See my post above.

Anyway my argument isn't an "argument" - it's fact. ATL weapons > BAL weapons. You don't need to believe Joe is a good QB to see this.

They are mutually exclusive.
[/quote]

It definitly helps to have great weapons; however, great Qb's don't need great weapons to be great; but your right Joe isn't great so he does need more help from the players around him.

[admartian]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936560' post='1200731']
It definitly helps to have great weapons; however, great Qb's don't need great weapons to be great; but your right Joe isn't great so he does need more help from the players around him.
[/quote]No you don't need great weapons to be a great QB.

But I sincerely think Joe is great [i]enough[/i] to win. Just needs help where he [b][i]should[/i][/b] be getting help. No one is trying to pass off blame from him though.

'Tis a team game after all. I think teams and fans can get tunnel-vision in finding a Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Peyton, and forget thje team aspect.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936338' post='1200722']


The only thing incorrect is you, I never wish this team to lose, but when it happens im not going to silence myself. And who are you MR. Self Rithgeous? The judge of Ravens fans? Your Fanship is just sooooooo much greater than everyone else's so you have free range to Judge all Ravens fans you don't agree with?
[/quote]got it in one good sir!

[UMDan]

Flacco is a completely different QB on the road. I'm not sure anyone looks so different home vs. away. That really needs to be addressed if he is to be considered 'elite' and if he wants the money he thinks he deserves...

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1350936847' post='1200741']
No you don't need great weapons to be a great QB.

[b]But I sincerely think Joe is great [i]enough[/i] to win. Just needs help where he [i]should[/i] be getting help. No one is trying to pass off blame from him though.

'Tis a team game after all. I think teams and fans can get tunnel-vision in finding a Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Peyton, and forget thje team aspect.[/b]
[/quote]

I completely agree, I do believe we can win with him, but this team and coaching staff need to step up.

[jimmypowder]

Id like to know why Joe is so bad on the road but usually damn good at home.

Yes he's had some good games away (Patriots last year,Chiefs playoff win) but
many away games his play is mind boggling.

Should we be running the ball more when away? YES! I think this would help Joe in away games

We should have been running the ball when the texans got the safety yesterday. Dumb play call.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1350937117' post='1200749']
Flacco is a completely different QB on the road. I'm not sure anyone looks so different home vs. away. That really needs to be addressed if he is to be considered 'elite' and if he wants the money he thinks he deserves...
[/quote]

I haven't seen a QB yet that looks so different on the road then Joe. I'm talking over the last 10 years or so .
It's puzzling .I know he's not out there partying like McCalister.

[admartian]

Yeah I don't know why we don't run the ball more - road or otherwise. Not a knock on Joe, but just make it easier for yourself if you have a Joe/Rice combo.

Yes, if Rice isn't running well, then by all means throw it. But we've abandoned it way too early lately,

[kassaiscool]

[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1350915391' post='1200117']
haha did you see Matt Ryan in the playoffs? He sucks. He is good during the regular season throwing to his PRO BOWL RECEIVERS. He also has had a pro bowl caliber runningback ever since being drafted too. How can you say that is a bad situation. Who did Flacco have when he was drafted Todd Heeeeap? Derrick Mason? Mark "Dropsies" Clayton? Haha if Flacco had Roddy White Julio Jones and Tony Gonzales instead of Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Pitta/Dickson I dont even think we would be talking on this post, rather it would be how Flacco dominated because he has receivers who can actually seperate because they are who they are. In time smith will get better but Flacco has never had the cream of the crop like Matt Ryan does. And ryan has been running that offense left, right, up, and down since day 1. Flacco STILL gets held back by Cam's BS. Matt Ryan is like lebron James...gets it done during the season...but not during the playoffs
[/quote]
[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1350915391' post='1200117']
haha did you see Matt Ryan in the playoffs? He sucks. He is good during the regular season throwing to his PRO BOWL RECEIVERS. He also has had a pro bowl caliber runningback ever since being drafted too. How can you say that is a bad situation. Who did Flacco have when he was drafted Todd Heeeeap? Derrick Mason? Mark "Dropsies" Clayton? Haha if Flacco had Roddy White Julio Jones and Tony Gonzales instead of Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Pitta/Dickson I dont even think we would be talking on this post, rather it would be how Flacco dominated because he has receivers who can actually seperate because they are who they are. In time smith will get better but Flacco has never had the cream of the crop like Matt Ryan does. And ryan has been running that offense left, right, up, and down since day 1. Flacco STILL gets held back by Cam's BS. Matt Ryan is like lebron James...gets it done during the season...but not during the playoffs
[/quote]

So flacco doesn't benefit from any good, and matt ryan has everything so good? I'm not buying that. If Joe wasn't on this team I doubt he wins as much playoff games if any. This defense literally carries him year in and year out(besides this year so far). That Jaguars game last year which Joe and the whole offense just sucked cost us everything. If we won that game we would have home field throughout the playoffs and new england would have had to come to Bmore. They blew it because the offense did absolutely nothing. I'm tired of hearing excuses for flacco.

[Bravens292]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1350932016' post='1200581']
The play calling and play designs are just so abysmally bad sometimes that I can't believe Cam Cameron actually has a job in the NFL. This is ridiculous.
[/quote]

yep. they should've fired him 2 years ago. who cares what harbs thinks. its the interest of the team not because you want to work with your friend. Reid had a great connection with Castillo but he still got fired. Harbs would never man up like that. if he is going to get fired, it will have to be from the FO unfortunately. i didn't know they like underacheiving every year.

as far as the flacco debate above, i consider myself a flacco fan but not a homer. i know year after year there seems to be another excuse for him but if he cannot perform under a better coordinator, then i will admit he isn't that great. for right now though, i think our offense as a whole is underachieving starting with cam. if our offense played well but flacco is holding us up, i would call that out but it seems nobody on the offense can do anything right, in other words execute. our players are perfectly capable of executing the way we want. What we need is a pagano on the offensive side of the ball that gets the best or even more out of his players. We are having that problem on the d side as well. i know for a fact we can get more out of torrey and rice than we are right now. With a good O-coordinator, torrey could probably put up fitz numbers.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I do not think you can blame Flacco for what happened against the texans. almost half of the balls got batted down and where does that stem from ? The front line not "persuading" them to keep their hands down. Our Oline is just not holding the D back and giving Flacco room. What about a helmet shot to the gut when the hands raise to block the pass ?

I honestly can say that Flacco is doing what he can with a terrible Oline and the D dictating if we run or not and yes they can dictate it. They take away passing lanes, stack the line and we are help to 3 and outs.

[jimmypowder]

Big question: If Joe still keeps asking for elite money on his next contract,do you let him walk?

I say yes.Elite QB's don't play like he has in away games.

Should he get 'Good" QB money, yes absolutely. I see him as a B QB, Rodgers,Brees,Brady are A
rated.

[arnie_uk]

Matt birk giving away the snap count on the road doesn't help much

[rlh445]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1350936560' post='1200731']
It definitly helps to have great weapons; however, great Qb's don't need great weapons to be great; but your right Joe isn't great so he does need more help from the players around him.
[/quote]

This is just a ridiculous statement. Ridiculous. Name the last QB to make and win a Super Bowl without the benefit of great players around him, offense and defense. Go ahead; I'll wait.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1350938147' post='1200795']
I do not think you can blame Flacco for what happened against the texans. almost half of the balls got batted down and where does that stem from ? The front line not "persuading" them to keep their hands down. Our Oline is just not holding the D back and giving Flacco room. What about a helmet shot to the gut when the hands raise to block the pass ?

I honestly can say that Flacco is doing what he can with a terrible Oline and the D dictating if we run or not and yes they can dictate it. They take away passing lanes, stack the line and we are help to 3 and outs.
[/quote]

I generally agree with you but where is Joe calling a timeout and going to Cameron and say we gotta do something different?

[PuRock]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1350938243' post='1200804']
Matt birk giving away the snap count on the road doesn't help much
[/quote]

It almost seemed like Yanda was doing something to signal Birk to snap. I kept noticing it (maybe it was Birk), but it was pretty noticeable that something was giving away the snap.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1350938443' post='1200816']


It almost seemed like Yanda was doing something to signal Birk to snap. I kept noticing it (maybe it was Birk), but it was pretty noticeable that something was giving away the snap.
[/quote]he sticks his [profanity deleted] up looks between his legs and snaps or something to that affect, I knew 90 percent of the time in the game the snap was coming. I only notice it on the road, it must be a communication problem they have, but it needs fixed!

Sometimes it looks like the snap count is on oher to, because he's away a fraction of second before every one else. Like he signals and goes when he signals so by the time the others react there's a split second difference. I've noticed this lately to, and it kind of coincides with him dramatically cutting down false starts

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1350938281' post='1200808']
This is just a ridiculous statement. Ridiculous. Name the last QB to make and win a Super Bowl without the benefit of great players around him, offense and defense. Go ahead; I'll wait.
[/quote]

Every team has great players on both sides of the ball. Some more than others, Who were Brady's receivers when they won the Superbowl who were his tight ends? Sure the defense was great but every Superbowl champion has had a good defense, or at least a hot one. The point is it didn't matter who you put around guys like Brady, and Peyton, because they elevate the players around them to elite status. So just take a chill pill bro.