Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357509070' post='1294940']
And while I am at it, I will make you eat Meatloaf from Cheescake Factory
[b]RBates hanging around the Tyrod Thread [/b]again
[/quote]

to know that means that you are too! lol!

~Mili

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='Trilogique' timestamp='1357508442' post='1294887']
Flacco played damn well today. Recall that 3 passes were drops, arguably 4.
[/quote]

Definitely 4. 3 by Doss and 1 by Rice. All 4 were in their hands.

[Malkavian Raven]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]That's what coach used to tell us. If you can touch it, you can catch it.[/i][/font]

[3-4ravdef509]

I remember two by doss in the endzone, one by rice, what was the fourth drop?


EDIT: was it the one where joe threw it pretty high when running to his left?

[The Raven]

Boldin had a monster day, but the WRs were mostly absent. I was at the game, and I can confirm that our guys had no separation on most plays. Doss had three ugly drops.

Did anyone notice how great Joe's pocket presence was today? He really "felt the rush" for once and moved in the pocket a lot. Any props?

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1357516795' post='1295413']
Boldin had a monster day, but the WRs were mostly absent. I was at the game, and I can confirm that our guys had no separation on most plays. Doss had three ugly drops.

Did anyone notice how great Joe's pocket presence was today? He really "felt the rush" for once and moved in the pocket a lot. Any props?
[/quote]

I noticed this too. Hopefully he can continue that vs MIller/Dumervil next week.

[Malkavian Raven]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Oh yeah, I really want a QB like RGIII... you know, the kind that breaks their leg twice in the same season.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This is why Running QBs will never work.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]Take it to the bank![/i][/font]

[flynismo]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1357509591' post='1294985']
to know that means that you are too! lol!

~Mili
[/quote]

haha!

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1357509304' post='1294959']
i agree! i was soooo excited and happy for Joe on those big throws. this is the way that i like to see Joe play! he is our QB! the leader! he needs to lead like today! i hope he keeps it up next week in denver and then against who ever the Ravens opponent would be next after that! let's go Joe!

~Mili
[/quote]

And this is why I have mad respect for you. You have your criticism of Flacco (and we all do at times) but you're not just riding the guy's butt ALL the time. When he does well, you're there with praise as well.

[gabefergy]

Joe played a great game. He had one really bad throw that should have been a pick, but overall he played extremely well. That second deep ball to Q was one of the best passes I have seen all season. You cant throw a deep ball any better than that.

The other thing that impressed me was Joe's mobility and pocket presence. He avoided the rush on multiple occassions and made big throws including the TD pass to Pitta. He got caught on the one Boot, but to be fair he almost avoided that sack too if he hadnt been tripped!

Great game Joe. We need you to keep playing at this level if we are going to get Ray and Ed to the SB.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1357524852' post='1295862']
Joe played a great game. He had one really bad throw that should have been a pick, but overall he played extremely well. That second deep ball to Q was one of the best passes I have seen all season. You cant throw a deep ball any better than that.

The other thing that impressed me was Joe's mobility and pocket presence. He avoided the rush on multiple occassions and made big throws including the TD pass to Pitta. He got caught on the one Boot, but to be fair he almost avoided that sack too if he hadnt been tripped!

Great game Joe. We need you to keep playing at this level if we are going to get Ray and Ed to the SB.
[/quote]
Late to the party! Ed and Ray will get there, next week if he shows up we will win

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357409891' post='1290244']
You just want him gone, and want Alex Smith. Smith is horrible outside of Jim's system anyway. We are giving Joe what he wants. Franchise QB's are hard to come by. Smith is not one, Flacco is
elite is when he becomes more consistant
[/quote]

HAHA

Flacco is not elite, he is not becoming elite, and he will never be elite.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357410579' post='1290255']
9-11 max. lmao
Sanchez is getting over 10

I'll tell you what, your boss is offering you $2 an hour less than the worst guy in your company. You can take it or walk, and you know there are at least 5 similar companies that are in desperate need of your type of services. What cha gonna do?

I have to agree with Mr. Irrelevant at this point in time. You just want him to go. Period. For your own personal reasons.
[/quote]

You just proved my point, Sanchez is getting over 10. Is he worth it? Do you think the Jets still think that was a wise investment?

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1357405274' post='1290183']
but he's not worth what you said based what his peers have been paid. Kolb Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, etc etc have all been paid between 11 and 14. Joe is better than everyone and his agent should not except a deal lower than them because they set market value.

They are the most recent QB contacts, ignoring mannings because he's clearly a level above joe. Market value has been set and he won't take less than that.

That's what everyone isn't understanding. Business 101
[/quote]

YES!!!!! EXACTLY

None of the Qb's you mentioned is worth what they are getting paid. We don't have to continue that trend of overpaying medicore players.

You know we differ on the topic of Joe Flacco, so this discussion is bias either way. The primary difference here is you believe we can win a Superbowl with him and I don't think we can. If I did think Joe could win us a Superbowl I would be all for 15 million a year; but, for me thats not the case.

And I just don't see the point in spending time or money on a guy who I don't think will ever amount to a Superbowl.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357523522' post='1295788']
And this is why I have mad respect for you. You have your criticism of Flacco (and we all do at times) but you're not just riding the guy's butt ALL the time. When he does well, you're there with praise as well.
[/quote]

i appreciate that ravensdfan! i've always said that i like Joe and want him to played and be great! he's "OUR" quarterback! i have no problems praising Joe when it is deserved but i refuse to "overlook" his poor game play (at times) like others do. oddly enough, with his performance vs the giants and then the colts....Joe is really starting to grow on me some. shhhhh! don't tell anyone that i said that. LOL! now he needs to play well once again this weekend against the broncos. he can do it!

~Mili

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357742399' post='1299355']


YES!!!!! EXACTLY

None of the Qb's you mentioned is worth what they are getting paid. We don't have to continue that trend of overpaying medicore players.

You know we differ on the topic of Joe Flacco, so this discussion is bias either way. The primary difference here is you believe we can win a Superbowl with him and I don't think we can. If I did think Joe could win us a Superbowl I would be all for 15 million a year; but, for me thats not the case.

And I just don't see the point in spending time or money on a guy who I don't think will ever amount to a Superbowl.
[/quote]

You're entitled to an opinion bro, but us all a favor...chill.

[callahan09]

Not sure if this post belongs here, but I just wanted to do a little comparison of how Flacco plays late in the season... Beware, stat dump incoming:


[u]Joe Flacco in the final quarter (last 4 games) of the regular season + post-season[/u]
(The numbers in the brackets at the end of each line are the splits for the first 12 games of the season. The percentages are really "percentile", that is the percent of qualifying players that he ranked better than)

[u]Season by season[/u]

2012 (5 Games, Rank 6/30 = 80%): 77 / 128, 1061 Yards, 9 TD, 2 INT --> 103.7 QB Rating
[85.0 QB Rating, Rank 18/34 = 47%]

2011 (6 Games, Rank 11/30 = 63%): 108 / 171, 1197 Yards, 11 TD, 5 INT --> 93.1 QB Rating
[78.3 QB Rating, Rank 21/31 = 32%]

2010 (6 Games, Rank 9/29 = 69%): 99 / 155, 1024 Yards, 9 TD, 3 INT --> 94.1 QB Rating
[92.8 QB Rating, Rank 10/31 = 68%]

2009 (6 Games, Rank 12/30 = 60%): 82 / 138, 955 Yards, 7 TD, 4 INT --> 85.3 QB Rating
[84.6 QB Rating, Rank 19/33 = 42%]

2008 (7 Games, Rank 27/28 = 4%): 88 / 172, 1132 Yards, 3 TD, 6 INT --> 63.4 QB Rating
[82.3 QB Rating, Rank 20/32 = 38%]

[u]Cumulative[/u]

Since 2008 (30 Games, Rank 13/21 = 38%): 454 / 764, 5369 Yards, 39 TD, 20 INT --> 87.0 QB Rating
[84.6 QB Rating, Rank 18/29 = 38%]

Since 2009 (23 Games, Rank 8/21 = 62%): 366/592, 4237 Yards, 36 TD, 14 INT --> 93.8 QB Rating
[85.0 QB Rating, Rank 16/30 = 47%]

Since 2010 (17 Games, Rank 8/26 = 69%): 284 / 454, 3282 Yards, 29 TD, 10 INT --> 96.4 QB Rating
[85.2 QB Rating, Rank 17/31 = 45%]

Since 2011 (11 Games, Rank 7/26 = 73%): 185 / 299, 2258 Yards, 20 TD, 7 INT --> 97.7 QB Rating
[81.6 QB Rating, Rank 21/31 = 32%]

Since 2012 (5 Games, Rank 6/30 = 80%): 77 / 128, 1061 Yards, 9 TD, 2 INT --> 103.7 QB Rating
[85.0 QB Rating, Rank 18/34 = 47%]

[u]Some analysis[/u]

What I'm seeing is that Flacco is typically below average (what I'd consider below the 50th percentile) in the first 3 quarters of the season, but plays better than average at the end and in the post-season. There are two exceptions in each case: He played above average in the 2010 early season, and below average in the 2008 (rookie year) late season.

This year, as you can see from the stats above, he has been the 6th best quarterback since (and including) the Redskins game (and yes, that includes the Denver game, too!). He's got a 103.7 QB Rating in the past 5 games, including the two losses at Redskins and versus Denver (also includes the Cincinnati game that he only played two series' in). I think that's pretty impressive, that even including 2 games he is considered to have lost for his team (though I know that's a load of malarky about the Redskins game... after all his turnovers were past, he led to the team to another touchdown to give the team an 8-point lead... that's the definition of doing what you must to win, but the defense and special teams let the other guys come right back to take it from us), his stats still look really good.

Since 2009 (so just excluding his rookie year), he has had a 93.8 QB rating in the final quarter of the regular season + play-offs combined. I'll take that any day. The man steps it up late in the year, and that's not an insignificant factor in why we get into the play-offs and win play-off games every year.

That has been improving ever since, as well. His cumulative late-season QB Rating has improved every year since his rookie year, to an all-time high this season.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357742399' post='1299355']
YES!!!!! EXACTLY

None of the Qb's you mentioned is worth what they are getting paid. [b]We don't have to continue that trend of overpaying medicore players.[/b]

You know we differ on the topic of Joe Flacco, so this discussion is bias either way. The primary difference here is you believe we can win a Superbowl with him and I don't think we can. If I did think Joe could win us a Superbowl I would be all for 15 million a year; but, for me thats not the case.

And I just don't see the point in spending time or money on a guy who I don't think will ever amount to a Superbowl.
[/quote]

Flacco didn't set the market. The Ravens didn't set the market. Those teams that overpaid Sanchez and the rest will do the same if Flacco hits the market. There are a ton, a ton, of QB hungry teams right now. QBs that you proclaim better than Flacco are sitting on their couches right now, watching Flacco and the Ravens in the post season. It's a TEAM sport. He may never be what you consider elite, but he doesn't have to be to take us to the SB or to win one. He just has to do what we know he is capable of (because we've seen him play that well) on a more consistent basis. With Cam gone, taking his horrid predictable play calling with him, I believe he will. That doesn't mean he won't have that bad game ever, all QBs do. Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers....they've all had statistically horrid games this season. It just means he'll have less of them. You don't think we'll get there with Flacco, fine. But when we get there and win a SB with Flacco (because I know the FO is too smart to let him hit the market) don't be coming back with excuses and disclaimers of why he doesn't get any credit. You want to claim our lack of reaching the ultimate game is due solely to Flacco, then when we hoist that Lombardi, he gets the credit as well.

[margeta2005]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357742399' post='1299355']
YES!!!!! EXACTLY

None of the Qb's you mentioned is worth what they are getting paid. We don't have to continue that trend of overpaying medicore players.

You know we differ on the topic of Joe Flacco, so this discussion is bias either way. The primary difference here is you believe we can win a Superbowl with him and I don't think we can. If I did think Joe could win us a Superbowl I would be all for 15 million a year; but, for me thats not the case.

And I just don't see the point in spending time or money on a guy who I don't think will ever amount to a Superbowl.
[/quote]

Well he proved he can reach the superbowl, he hit evans right in the chest if i remember correctly.. what was he supossed to do? run the ball himself in? it couldnt have been thrown better.. in the end its a team game, and last year flacco had nothing to do with us not being in the SB it was all on evans and cundiff..

and this argument: you are never going to win a SB with flacco is the dumbest one ive ever heard.. the odds of winning a SB are 1/32, so its a pretty safe bet to say such a thing

[callahan09]

This year when Flacco threw to his running backs, he was 91 / 122, 680 Yards, and 1 TD.

That's 74.6% completion percentage, very high, but only 5.57 yards per attempt (7.47 yards per completion) and an astoundingly bad 122 passes per touchdown (a touchdown every 91 catches).

Tom Brady on the other hand was 54 / 82, 646 Yards, 5 TD when throwing to his running backs, for a much worse 65.9% completion percentage, but benefiting from 7.88 yards per attempt (11.96 yards per completion) and a very good 16.4 throws per touchdown (a touchdown every 10.8 catches)!

What's that about? Flacco was completing everything he threw their way, seemingly, but they just weren't breaking for much yardage and weren't getting into the endzone. I'm sure this lack of productivity from dump-offs was a bit of a factor in making the passing game less impressive for Flacco this season. Flacco's yards per completion was lower than Brady's yards per attempt!

If Flacco's running backs were as productive per reception as Brady's were, they would have contributed 1089 yards and 8 or 9 touchdowns. Which could have increased Flacco's season numbers to about:

317 / 531, 4226 Yards, 30 TD, 10 INT --> [b]96.0 QB Rating[/b]

Interesting, I thought. Brady's actual rating was 98.7. Not much better than what Flacco's would have been if he had received identical productivity from his dump-off passes.


EDIT:

OK, I did a bit more research into this phenomenon of productivity per completion to running backs. I looked at the stats when throwing to running backs / fullbacks for all QBs who finished the season with a higher QB Rating than Flacco. Flacco finished 12th in QB Rating, so all rankings I describe are out of 12, but these rankings are not actually a rank of the quarterback so much as a rank of the support the QB received from his running backs (keep that in mind when reading)...

Flacco ranked 9th in TD rate, with all 3 who ranked lower (Rodgers, RGIII, Roethlisberger) receiving no TDs from their running backs at all, but also with a lot fewer completions to their backs.

Flacco also ranked 8th in yards per completion, with the 4 who ranked lower being Schaub, Rivers, and RGIII and Ryan.

The only QB who ranked lower than Flacco in both metrics was RGIII.

The QB who received the most support from his running backs per completion was Brady. If Flacco had received the same level of support as Brady, his QB Ranking would have been [b]96.0[/b].

The QB who received the least support from his running backs per completion was RGIII. If Flacco had received the same level of support as RGIII, his QB Ranking would have been [b]86.8[/b].

Flacco's actual passer rating of 87.7 is much closer to the floor of possibility (RGIII) than the potential ceiling (Brady).

If he had received the same level of support as each individual quarterback, his QB Rating would have been higher than it actually was in all cases except 3 (RGIII, Roethlisberger, and Rivers).

If he had received the average support shared among all 11 QBs ranked higher than him, he would have finished the season:

317 / 531, 3860 Yards, 24 TD, 10 INT --> [b]89.3 QB Rating[/b]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1357742997' post='1299364']


i appreciate that ravensdfan! i've always said that i like Joe and want him to played and be great! he's "OUR" quarterback! i have no problems praising Joe when it is deserved but i refuse to "overlook" his poor game play (at times) like others do. oddly enough, with his performance vs the giants and then the colts....Joe is really starting to grow on me some. shhhhh! don't tell anyone that i said that. LOL! now he needs to play well once again this weekend against the broncos. he can do it!

~Mili
[/quote]

How much do you credit Caldwell for Flacco's performances against the NYG and Colts? Obviously it's Joe out there on the field doing his thing, but I think Caldwell is doing a heck of a job putting Flacco in favorable situations. He's also doing a great job of using guys to their strengths and that helps Flacco as well.

Also, what would another strong performance "on the road" against a top 5 defense say to you?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357741942' post='1299348']
HAHA

Flacco is not elite, he is not becoming elite, and he will never be elite.
[/quote]
Well Alex Smith Sucks, will never be good, and will not win a Super Bowl ever, what is your point?

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1357761891' post='1299708']
How much do you credit Caldwell for Flacco's performances against the NYG and Colts? Obviously it's Joe out there on the field doing his thing, but [u][b]I think Caldwell is doing a heck of a job putting Flacco in favorable situations. He's also doing a great job of using guys to their strengths and that helps Flacco as well.[/b][/u]

Also, what would another strong performance "on the road" against a top 5 defense say to you?
[/quote]

i believe that's the key! unlike Cam....Caldwell has taken the handcuffs off of Joe and he seems to be properly utilizing the talent around him. IF Joe can go into mile high and expose the broncos defense for the win....he's simply taking the next step in his maturity as a 5th year starting QB. imo, Joe has to make everyone on the offensive side of the ball around him play better! meaning...that as he elevates his game more consistently....he must also demand that of his teammates. imo, that's what good leaders do!

~Mili

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357775923' post='1300013']
Well Alex Smith Sucks, will never be good, and will not win a Super Bowl ever, what is your point?
[/quote]

You salty, thats my point.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='margeta2005' timestamp='1357750218' post='1299521']
Well he proved he can reach the superbowl, he hit evans right in the chest if i remember correctly.. what was he supossed to do? run the ball himself in? it couldnt have been thrown better.. in the end its a team game, and last year flacco had nothing to do with us not being in the SB it was all on evans and cundiff..

and this argument: you are never going to win a SB with flacco is the dumbest one ive ever heard.. the odds of winning a SB are 1/32, so its a pretty safe bet to say such a thing
[/quote]

Did we reach the Superbowl last year? Oh that's right we didn't. Only fools and hypocrites argue in hypotheticals, so which are you?

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357747760' post='1299475']
Flacco didn't set the market. The Ravens didn't set the market. Those teams that overpaid Sanchez and the rest will do the same if Flacco hits the market. There are a ton, a ton, of QB hungry teams right now. QBs that you proclaim better than Flacco are sitting on their couches right now, watching Flacco and the Ravens in the post season. It's a TEAM sport. He may never be what you consider elite, but he doesn't have to be to take us to the SB or to win one. He just has to do what we know he is capable of (because we've seen him play that well) on a more consistent basis. With Cam gone, taking his horrid predictable play calling with him, I believe he will. That doesn't mean he won't have that bad game ever, all QBs do. Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers....they've all had statistically horrid games this season. It just means he'll have less of them. You don't think we'll get there with Flacco, fine. But when we get there and win a SB with Flacco (because I know the FO is too smart to let him hit the market) don't be coming back with excuses and disclaimers of why he doesn't get any credit. You want to claim our lack of reaching the ultimate game is due solely to Flacco, then when we hoist that Lombardi, he gets the credit as well.
[/quote]

The next time the Ravens hoist the Lombardi Flacco won't be a part of this team.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1357743469' post='1299370']
You're entitled to an opinion bro, but us all a favor...chill.
[/quote]

No

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357844832' post='1300701']
Did we reach the Superbowl last year? Oh that's right we didn't. Only fools and hypocrites argue in hypotheticals, so which are you?
[/quote]

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357844897' post='1300702']
I have nothing better to do, so I'm on here talking crap bout Joe
[/quote]
We know man, we know

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357747760' post='1299475']
Flacco didn't set the market. The Ravens didn't set the market. Those teams that overpaid Sanchez and the rest will do the same if Flacco hits the market. There are a ton, a ton, of QB hungry teams right now. QBs that you proclaim better than Flacco are sitting on their couches right now, watching Flacco and the Ravens in the post season. It's a TEAM sport. He may never be what you consider elite, but he doesn't have to be to take us to the SB or to win one. He just has to do what we know he is capable of (because we've seen him play that well) on a more consistent basis. With Cam gone, taking his horrid predictable play calling with him, I believe he will. That doesn't mean he won't have that bad game ever, all QBs do. Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers....they've all had statistically horrid games this season. It just means he'll have less of them. You don't think we'll get there with Flacco, fine. But when we get there and win a SB with Flacco (because I know the FO is too smart to let him hit the market) don't be coming back with excuses and disclaimers of why he doesn't get any credit. You want to claim our lack of reaching the ultimate game is due solely to Flacco, then when we hoist that Lombardi, he gets the credit as well.
[/quote]

So, when Flacco doesn't win a Superbowl what excuses will you have?