Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1357166163' post='1287376']
It should have been silenced by his performance on Sunday.
[/quote]
RBates still wants him....

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1357166163' post='1287376']
It should have been silenced by his performance on Sunday.
[/quote]

Credit for good performance usually gets deflected towards Ray Rice. Remember, after the first Bengals game, when many where still complaining Ray didn't get enough touches? Ridiculous.
I feel a lot of credit might go to Ray Lewis for a victory in the playoffs. Many analysts are already coming up with stories, how this is the push the Ravens needed.
Not saying Joe should get sole credit for the teams record. Football is a team sport. But, he pretty much ends up getting all of the blame most of time.
I think that's the reason why so many fans, who do believe in Joe are so easily angered. Joe still remains the NFLs fav whipping boy.
Still. This has been a season of transition. You can't deny that it was Flacco and Rice who lead this team to the playoffs. Not the defense. Maybe this is Flaccos time.
The old leader leaves and a new leader rises. These playoffs and this pivotal moment in Ravens history might be the break Joe needed to gain the respect, he seems to want and maybe deserves. The only thing to do is shine in the playoffs.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1357167579' post='1287406']
Credit for good performance usually gets deflected towards Ray Rice. Remember, after the first Bengals game, when many where still complaining Ray didn't get enough touches? Ridiculous.
I feel a lot of credit might go to Ray Lewis for a victory in the playoffs. Many analysts are already coming up with stories, how this is the push the Ravens needed.
Not saying Joe should get sole credit for the teams record. Football is a team sport. But, he pretty much ends up getting all of the blame most of time.
I think that's the reason why so many fans, who do believe in Joe are so easily angered. Joe still remains the NFLs fav whipping boy.
Still. This has been a season of transition. You can't deny that it was Flacco and Rice who lead this team to the playoffs. Not the defense. Maybe this is Flaccos time.
The old leader leaves and a new leader rises. These playoffs and this pivotal moment in Ravens history might be the break Joe needed to gain the respect, he seems to want and maybe deserves. The only thing to do is shine in the playoffs.
[/quote]

Well regardless of what people think of Joe, I can't believe anybody who actually watched the game on Sunday would think Tyrod Taylor could replace him. The longest throw he tried was 25 yards and he still barely completed 60 percent of his passes, to go along with the game-deciding pick-six, against Cincinnati's second and third string players.

[Mordhom]

People need stop slamming Joe for every single problem our team has. Teams have figured out how to make him almost useless by double covering Tory Smith and that's when you need to mix it up with TE's and I don't think we do it nearly enough but when they have Pitta and them have simply been dropping catches. This QB is Baltimore's QB Joe Flacco is just like when the people of the day supported our Baltimore Colts QB Johnny Unitas. Our town stood by him in good and bad times. Pittsburgh stands by their QB just like many other teams. We got to do the same if you don't think fan support doesn't effect his performance your wrong. Be glade we don't have Boller anymore and people need to let go of the Boller attitude towards the QB's of the future.

You got to also understand he came out already has the record for going to the playoffs every year since his rookie and if not for a dropped pass we would have been in the Superbowl, we could also have tied the game with a kick that also missed. You can't win them all and you can't blame one person for everything remember they also like to call 3 running plays when the first and second both gained 1 or 0 yards. If you ever watch Flacco college tapes you would understand why he was perfect for the ravens as teams O-Line crumbled and he could still pass. He was good under pressure. What makes me mad is when they get on about talking about a citys team history and yet they never touch ours considering we had the colts Uniform silver and green and then what the colts use to day. All that history is Ravens history all the way up until it had Indy in its name. Art has been practicly banned from the hall of fame because he restored football to a City that helped kick start it back in the day. We can't use any type of throw backs altered or not and they never think about what happened to us. Hell we are also the only city to have a Grey Cup as the team the Stallions. Yet all this history we are not allowed to show off, its like Baltimore was new to football, I know I got off topic a bit but people fight for our history, fight for our team and fight for Art. When we got the Browns turned ravens we left all History behind for that team got new uniforms and a new name. The NFL jumped us for those actions but nothing was said about the Indy move, they did not try to help protect us... Today they still spit in our face as team put on their throwbacks and we are not allowed even though out city picked the the name of the team, why would not want to make the team unique to your city. At least some agreement should be ironed out so we have throwbacks and maybe even work with the CFL for that throw back also so that we can show off our history this would include both white/blue and the silver & green the older uniform. They already smacked out history in the face by allowing them to use our alternative logo, maybe next time they will let their QB where the high tops just like Johnny U I don't get why the NFL hates our city. But maybe one day they will set things straight

Anyways Sorry for going off topic a little but next time I hear how the browns fans are so up set how about stepping in our shoes. Art gave them lots of his time he gave a city back its football pride that was stolen while now both teams have what they love football but Baltimore still has issues that have not been healed even the real players of the Orignal Colts call only baltimore home.
[b] [/b]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357166545' post='1287386']
RBates still wants him....
[/quote]

Yeah, well Mike Preston still wants Troy Smith.

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1357260334' post='1288538']


Yeah, well Mike Preston still wants Troy Smith.
[/quote]

ROTFLMAO!

[qredett]

[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1350867858' post='1199377']
A lot of us (well atleast I did) expected Flacco to go in and take control of the offense and put up a fight as our defense presumably took a downfall. Well our defense still looked bad...for me questions around our secondary mostly. And Flacco of coarse did not play up to par what so ever and it was his third straight week posting "average stats".

I knew at the end of the first half that people on here would start to bring out the "tyrod" chants and all the other flacco bashing comments. I would like to know the general consensus on Flacco. Like I said he has been in a slump the past three weeks except for the dallas game where he still only threw for 234/TD. But he didnt get it done today.

In my humble opinion I think every QB is entitled to a few ugly games, be it Brady Rodgers Manning every QB has their horrible game every once in a while. Hopefully Joe has a game to remember when we take on the Browns after the bye. I think we would really appreciate seeing Flacco go for 400 yards and a trio of touchdowns in a dominant performance against the Browns in a perfect setting for a blowout bounceback game.

I still think this is Flaccos team and has yet to truly take it over, but that is also becuase no elite qb in this league has a runningback like we do(and every team has a better offensive coordinator hahah) so we cant throw alot on a consistant basis. Down the longrun Joe will improve and start winning games for us.

I know stats dont necessarily win games or tell how skillful a QB is.

BUT just for the record Flaccos worst games this season

Loss VS Eagles- 22/42 232yds TD, INT

Win VS KC- 13/27 187yds 0TD, INT

Win VS Dallas- 17/26 234yds TD

Loss VS Texans 21/43 147yds TD, 2INTs
[/quote]

The texans game stats can be misleading. Both interceptions were batted balls. The Glover Quin interception was an amazing play. Flacco could have thrown it away from JJ Watt but I wouldn't pack as much heat as a lot of people do on Flacco for that game.

[Ravensfan23]

I really like Joe's approach to the the playoffs this year. Last year he went out and played with the media, kinda throwing jabs and they of course ate it up, twisting Joe's joking remarks and making it seem like he was begging for respect.

Well this year, instead of Joe joking about how he gets no credit, Joe said it's all on him to lead this team. He said there has to be better decisions and play from the QB position. He said it's up to him, to get the offense going, to get Rice involved and keep the offense in rhythm.


I love that approach. Even though I had no problem with Joe's approach last year, I like the sense of urgency and personal responsibility Joe seems to be taking. The Ravens will go as far as Flacco takes them and i expect huge things from Joe over the next 4 games.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1357166163' post='1287376']
It should have been silenced by his performance on Sunday.
[/quote]

but no, it's even got 30+ more pages than this one, makes one wonder hmmm

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1357293053' post='1289057']
but no, it's even got 30+ more pages than this one, makes one wonder hmmm
[/quote]

Bandwagoners and people who don't know what they're talking about - I think my favorite thing is seeing people compare Tyrod to Russell Wilson and Drew Brees because all three are around 6 feet tall. And I've also seen some serious flip-flopping - apparently Joe has no excuses because "our receiving corps is as good as any in the league" but Tyrod "was playing without starting receivers" in spite of the fact that Cincy also had it's second and third string defense in there. And I still, still can't get over the stupidity of Mark Kreigel - I tried to like him, but the fact that Joe has outperformed Luck in every statistical category except yards, but because Luck threw for 4000 yards and Joe threw for only 3800 in 15 games, Joe apparently isn't as good as Luck is now.

[BmoreRavens732]

Wow at this thread.....alot of pages

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='BmoreRavens732' timestamp='1357324551' post='1289347']
Wow at this thread.....alot of pages
[/quote]
This thread has become a war zone. Flacco haters vs supporters

[Sizzlebshu]

This thread recently has been pointless. You guys have all been evaluating on a game by game basis with opinions changing withe very game instead of looking at the entire body of work.

Flacco gets owned by Denver - he sucks. The supporters say he needs to work on some things

Flacco owns the giants - Sign him now and the haters go quiet.

When in actuality evaluating Flacco should go something like this

Year 1 - Review

Year 2 - Review

Year 3 - Review

Year 4 - Review

Year 5 - Review

These reviews should really only take the regular season into account for two reasons

1. Largest body of work and a good measure of consistency

2. Playoff wins escape even the GOATS sometimes and sometimes crappy qbs win in playoffs (Peyton for awhile vs Eli here). It was hard for Peyton to win in playoffs when compared to his Brother who could get hot and win 4 straight.

I will probably do an evaluation on this later, but I can tell you from the body of work I have seen just generally over viewing it and not digging into great detail, that Flacco should be resigned.

[Sizzlebshu]

Note when I say turnover differential here I am saying how many times Joe has generated a TD vs how many times he has turned the ball over. You could call it scoring differential, but I called it turnover differential as I dont know the exact metric for it.

2008 - Joe's rookie year. Joe finished with a modest 14/12 TD/INT ratio but showed good decision making in that he threw 0 picks in the red zone (an extraordinary feat for a rookie). He threw for 2,917 yards and produced a reasonable 60% completion percentage. He had 2 rushing touchdowns bringing his total TD's to 16 and 5 fumbles making him finish the season at -1 in turnover differential. All in all Flacco turned in an average rookie season but showed some above average level of decision making. The fumbling issue you can attribute to several things such as him being a rookie, an offensive system that forces him to hold on to the ball, no receivers of note, and of course the offensive line was also ranked near the bottom of the league (need confirmation on this one as I cant find stats that go that far back, but given they were ranked 20th in 2009, I cant imagine much variation). Strength of schedule (playing the leagues best defenses right out the gate twice a year is also a factor). All in all the deck was stacked against Flacco this year and he was still able to turn in an average season. This is a good sign.

2009 - Joe's sophomore season. Joe like most afc north Flacco avoided the dreaded sophomore slump. Flacco showed tremendous improvement upon his rookie season by finishing with a 63.1 completion percentage, 3613 yards, 21: 12 TD/INT ratio with again no picks in the red zone. He did have 2 fumbles and the line ranked in the bottom third of the league finishing at 20th but Joe turnover differential improved to +7. Flacco showed clear signs on improvement and development. He also showed that he could shoulder a heavier load of the offense by throwing for 499 attempts (compared to 428) and improved from 185 yards/game on 26.8 attempts per game to 225 yards a game on 31.2 attempts per game. Again clear signs of improvement and development from Flacco. On top of that, he also did not make any mistakes on things he was already doing correctly which shows that he can assimilate and process new information while maintaining the things he was already doing correctly ie his game was growing and he was absorbing information without losing anything or regressing.

2010 - Joe's best season. The acquisition of Anquan Boldin proved valuable for Joe. Joe finished the season with 3,622 yards (improvement within a negligible range) on about the same amount of attempts with a 62.6 completion percentage ( a slight knock but again within the negligible range). Furthermore, he generated an impressive 25/10 TD/INT ratio. He fumbled the ball twice and ran the ball in once giving him an impressive finish of 26/12 making him +14 in turnover differential. His yards per game improved to 226.4 (negligible improvement). Again no picks in the red zone.

It is important to note that it was after this season that Zorn was let go of, as well as Heap, Houshmanzadah, and Mason. Joe lost a lot of targets he had gained familiarity with and the quarterback coach that guiding him to steady improvement while maintaining his good points.

2011 - This is where the Flacco haters come in. Flacco's numbers dipped quite a bit. He finished the season with a 57.6 completion percentage but this can be accounted for by the fact that he was forced to throw the ball 50 more times than in the previous two years throwing 542 times (499, 489 in the previous 2). His TD/INT dropped to 20/12 but he fumbled twice and only ran for 1 TD making his turnover differential +7, a huge drop compared to the previous year. He threw for about the same amount of yards (3,600 again) and averaged about 225 yards a game. It is important to note though, that his attempts per game increased to 33.9. Clearly, Flacco came back down to earth this season, but still turned in a good season given that he was working with 3 new targets (dickson, pitta, torrey smith. Four if you count Lee evans) and a teacher change. Still no red zone picks (phenomenal) but the haters can take delight in the ability to question Flacco's ability to become elite due to the dip in his completion percentage and his inability to shoulder an even larger portion of the offense and can cite that due to this season and his limited attempts in previous seasons (this is his first season throwing for over 500 attempts) that Flacco is no more than a game manager. However, the supporters have a valid argument that Cam's system along with all of the new receivers struggling early on can account for Flacco's dip in numbers.

2012 - Finally we are on to this season. It is important to note that once again, Joe is forced to deal with a new qb coach, and will have to deal a new offensive coordinator mid season (however the latter I will not count at all since it was for only 2 games). Flacco's numbers this season can only be used for 15 games as he sat out 95% of the last game. He was also becoming accustomed to a new no huddle offensive system that is in general harder to run on the road and more effective at home. Flacco once again threw for over 500 attempts (531) and was able to improve his completion percentage to 59.7. While the haters can take delight in that 59.7% is by no means a great number, it is an improvement and Flacco is still developing under a new version of his system. So all in all while a 2% improvement isnt great, it is a good sign and good for Flacco. He improved his TD/INT to 22/10 making him +12 in turnover differential (he finished with 3 fumbles but also had 3 scores so 25/13). An important thing to note though, is that Flacco did have 2 red zone picks which is a career high for him. He also set career highs in yardage with 3817, yards per game with 238.6. Factor in that this was over 15 games and Flacco assuming he maininted his average or close to it even would have been a 4000 yard passer. This year was a positive for Flacco.

So what does the aggregation of data tell us?

1. Flacco is improving. Furthermore, Flacco is consistently improving.

2. The stigma that haters seems to have about Flacco being inconsistent is a fallacy. The truth is, and the numbers show, Flacco has been nothing but consistent from year to year.

3. As the haters have pointed out, there is room for improvement in Flacco's game and as the data has pointed out, Flacco is improving from year to year and he has been able to assimilate more and more into his game as a whole from year to year.

4. Flacco is not costing us games. Maybe I shouldnt say that, rather Flacco is by far the last thing wrong with this team. He generates more scores than he does turnovers and generally maintains a 2/1 int ratio from year to year.

5. Flacco is not a HoF QB but he is/can be in that elite class that is more than capable of winning games on there own, and of course a superbowl. Those of him expecting him to be Aaron Rodgers, or Tom Brady can rest assured that he is not that. However, I would ask those that hold Flacco to this standard to please compare the talent Flacco has to work with offensively, from a personnel standpoint, to that of Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers. The contrast is truly striking.

Imo Flacco does deserve 15 mil a year given the current market for quarterbacks. He is in the top 8 or 25th percentile of the league, is young, and still has tremendous room to improve and is showing improvement from year to year. I realize that many people, myself included, do not want to give him this money due to the nature of the salary cap and desire to build a talent loaded superbowl team, but it is what he deserves (if you have a problem with 15 mil being too much strain on the cap you can likely thank Brees, Brady, Manning, and in the near future Aaron Rodgers, for inflating the market. You cant really blame Flacco though for not wanting to give us a hometown discount when the fans make his life a nightmare.)

[BMORE_96]

If Jaw's opnion matters, he did rank flacco as the 8th quarterback in his final 2012 ranking behind guys like aaron, tom , peyton, and etc.

People have to understand it is a [b]team [/b]game. Losses are not meant to fall upon the shoulders of one player.The entire team contributes to a win and a loss.

Now, a quarterback has, arguably, the biggest impact on the field because he is in charge of the offense and in order to win a game you must score points. Under the flacco era, we have made it into the playoffs 5 times. Almost made it to the superbowl twice(2008 and 2011). Flacco has indeed shown improvement, yes it may not appear in stats all the time but it is mostly intangibles like leadership and poise.

I predict flacco will have a very good game sunday and he is deserving of being signed to a 15 million dollar contract because of his track record and high potential of guranteed success. Flacco is certainly better than tyrod and who would you rather have than flacco. I can name maybe two guys that I would prefer to be on this team.Aaron rodgers or Drew Brees. Passers that don't have superior perssonal, yet lift their entire team to victory. In my opinion, peyton ,as of now, has a very good team around him and brady has top offensive personal.

SO, in conclusion, Flacco is the best we've had,and we should respect him because he could be gone and our super bowl chances would be gone as well.

[BmoreInBmore]

Two seasons ago the vast majority of this forum swore Joe would be elite. Now this entire forum; which not so long ago shouted elite from the rooftops is afraid to even drop the word in the same sentence as Joe Flacco.

Joe does not deserve 15 million because Joe has consistently proven how inconsistent he truly is. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton have, over the course of many seasons, displayed their consistent ability to make plays when called upon. In other words 99% of the time you know what you are getting from any one of these guys come Sunday.

When you have to ask yourself which Joe is going to "show up" on gameday there is a problem. And we as an organization should not be willing to overpay a guy simply because we have no immidiate successor solution. Paying Joe 15 million is resignation to the fact that we will egregiously reward mediocrity. If Joe gets 15 million we might as well give Cary Williams 10 million a year, and set a franchise precedent of paying players far more than they are worth. Joe is worth 9-11 max, offer him that contact and let him decide.

You can't win with scared money; give money where money is due.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357398140' post='1290136']
Two seasons ago the vast majority of this forum swore Joe would be elite. Now this entire forum; which not so long ago shouted elite from the rooftops is afraid to even drop the word in the same sentence as Joe Flacco.

Joe does not deserve 15 million because Joe has consistently proven how inconsistent he truly is. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton have, over the course of many seasons, displayed their consistent ability to make plays when called upon. In other words 99% of the time you know what you are getting from any one of these guys come Sunday.

When you have to ask yourself which Joe is going to "show up" on gameday there is a problem. And we as an organization should not be willing to overpay a guy simply because we have no immidiate successor solution. Paying Joe 15 million is resignation to the fact that we will egregiously reward mediocrity. If Joe gets 15 million we might as well give Cary Williams 10 million a year, and set a franchise precedent of paying players far more than they are worth. Joe is worth 9-11 max, offer him that contact and let him decide.

You can't win with scared money; give money where money is due.
[/quote]but he's not worth what you said based what his peers have been paid. Kolb Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, etc etc have all been paid between 11 and 14. Joe is better than everyone and his agent should not except a deal lower than them because they set market value.

They are the most recent QB contacts, ignoring mannings because he's clearly a level above joe. Market value has been set and he won't take less than that.

That's what everyone isn't understanding. Business 101

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357398140' post='1290136']
Two seasons ago the vast majority of this forum swore Joe would be elite. Now this entire forum; which not so long ago shouted elite from the rooftops is afraid to even drop the word in the same sentence as Joe Flacco.

Joe does not deserve 15 million because Joe has consistently proven how inconsistent he truly is. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton have, over the course of many seasons, displayed their consistent ability to make plays when called upon. In other words 99% of the time you know what you are getting from any one of these guys come Sunday.

When you have to ask yourself which Joe is going to "show up" on gameday there is a problem. And we as an organization should not be willing to overpay a guy simply because we have no immidiate successor solution. Paying Joe 15 million is resignation to the fact that we will egregiously reward mediocrity. If Joe gets 15 million we might as well give Cary Williams 10 million a year, and set a franchise precedent of paying players far more than they are worth. Joe is worth 9-11 max, offer him that contact and let him decide.

You can't win with scared money; give money where money is due.
[/quote]
You just want him gone, and want Alex Smith. Smith is horrible outside of Jim's system anyway. We are giving Joe what he wants. Franchise QB's are hard to come by. Smith is not one, Flacco is
elite is when he becomes more consistant

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357398140' post='1290136']
Two seasons ago the vast majority of this forum swore Joe would be elite. Now this entire forum; which not so long ago shouted elite from the rooftops is afraid to even drop the word in the same sentence as Joe Flacco.

Joe does not deserve 15 million because Joe has consistently proven how inconsistent he truly is. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton have, over the course of many seasons, displayed their consistent ability to make plays when called upon. In other words 99% of the time you know what you are getting from any one of these guys come Sunday.

When you have to ask yourself which Joe is going to "show up" on gameday there is a problem. And we as an organization should not be willing to overpay a guy simply because we have no immidiate successor solution. Paying Joe 15 million is resignation to the fact that we will egregiously reward mediocrity. If Joe gets 15 million we might as well give Cary Williams 10 million a year, and set a franchise precedent of paying players far more than they are worth. Joe is worth 9-11 max, offer him that contact and let him decide.

You can't win with scared money; give money where money is due.
[/quote]

9-11 max. lmao
Sanchez is getting over 10

I'll tell you what, your boss is offering you $2 an hour less than the worst guy in your company. You can take it or walk, and you know there are at least 5 similar companies that are in desperate need of your type of services. What cha gonna do?

I have to agree with Mr. Irrelevant at this point in time. You just want him to go. Period. For your own personal reasons.

[Malkavian Raven]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357326668' post='1289376']
This thread recently has been pointless. You guys have all been evaluating on a game by game basis with opinions changing withe very game instead of looking at the entire body of work.

Flacco gets owned by Denver - he sucks. The supporters say he needs to work on some things

Flacco owns the giants - Sign him now and the haters go quiet.

When in actuality evaluating Flacco should go something like this

Year 1 - Review

Year 2 - Review

Year 3 - Review

Year 4 - Review

Year 5 - Review

These reviews should really only take the regular season into account for two reasons

1. Largest body of work and a good measure of consistency

2. Playoff wins escape even the GOATS sometimes and sometimes crappy qbs win in playoffs (Peyton for awhile vs Eli here). It was hard for Peyton to win in playoffs when compared to his Brother who could get hot and win 4 straight.

I will probably do an evaluation on this later, but I can tell you from the body of work I have seen just generally over viewing it and not digging into great detail, that Flacco should be resigned.
[/quote]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What would you like to know? I've already done a bunch of research on Joe for the last five years... putting it all into one signature image that is just too crowded for my liking.[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i][i]I'll tell you without even looking, 2010 was his best year as far as performance, he had about a 13-game stretch where his QBR was 80 or above. So, that proves he can be a consistent QB.[/i][/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i][i]And the teams he faced in that stretch were no slouches: PIT, NE, ATL, PIT, HOU, NO[/i][/i][/font]

[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/joeflacco/382/gamelogs?season=2010"]http://www.nfl.com/p...ogs?season=2010[/url]

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357410579' post='1290255']
9-11 max. lmao
Sanchez is getting over 10

I'll tell you what, your boss is offering you $2 an hour less than the worst guy in your company. You can take it or walk, and you know there are at least 5 similar companies that are in desperate need of your type of services. What cha gonna do?

I have to agree with Mr. Irrelevant at this point in time. You just want him to go. Period. For your own personal reasons.
[/quote]
I think he would rather have Sanchez too

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1357398140' post='1290136']
Two seasons ago the vast majority of this forum swore Joe would be elite. Now this entire forum; which not so long ago shouted elite from the rooftops is afraid to even drop the word in the same sentence as Joe Flacco.

Joe does not deserve 15 million because Joe has consistently proven how inconsistent he truly is. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton have, over the course of many seasons, displayed their consistent ability to make plays when called upon. In other words 99% of the time you know what you are getting from any one of these guys come Sunday.

When you have to ask yourself which Joe is going to "show up" on gameday there is a problem. And we as an organization should not be willing to overpay a guy simply because we have no immidiate successor solution. Paying Joe 15 million is resignation to the fact that we will egregiously reward mediocrity. If Joe gets 15 million we might as well give Cary Williams 10 million a year, and set a franchise precedent of paying players far more than they are worth. Joe is worth 9-11 max, offer him that contact and let him decide.

You can't win with scared money; give money where money is due.
[/quote]
Look at the the qbs you listed and compared Joe to. 3 GOATS and a sure fire HoF. That goes above the elite level of qb. Peyton and Brady, you can make the argument for being the greatest of all time at their position. No qb in the league can compete with that and I doubt any qb in the last 10 years could. Honestly make a valid comparison.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1357412345' post='1290273']
Look at the the qbs you listed and compared Joe to. 3 GOATS and a sure fire HoF. That goes above the elite level of qb. Peyton and Brady, you can make the argument for being the greatest of all time at their position. No qb in the league can compete with that and I doubt any qb in the last 10 years could. Honestly make a valid comparison.
[/quote]

[SecretAgentMan]

It's like arguing with my friends all over again
Friend : Flacco will never win us games
Me: Really? Last I checked we had ten wins

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357413023' post='1290284']



[/quote]hes far from a troll once you get through his shell.

[ratedr]

All I'll say that is if we lose tomorrow and Flacco is the reason, God help him.

For your sake and mine (because I don't want to be around here if that happens), please play well tomorrow Joe.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1357413313' post='1290294']
All I'll say that is if we lose tomorrow and Flacco is the reason, God help him.

For your sake and mine (because I don't want to be around here if that happens), please play well tomorrow Joe.
[/quote]
Even if he plays well, it will still fall on him.............

[ratedr]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1357413485' post='1290298']
Even if he plays well, it will still fall on him.............
[/quote]If we lose 40-37 I don't think anyone will hold it agaisnt him (unless he throw a game-ending INT).


If he loses in Romo-like fashion from last week...well...

[Malkavian Raven]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]I don't know how else to put it. So, here is a breakdown of Joe's QBR per OPP per game. Aside from Houston & Denver -- Joe is consistent (good or bad) or showing improvement against the rest of the league. Divisional games are kind of "iffy" since there are quite a few more of those, but we all know Joe tends to bring his A-game when it comes to divisional foes.[/i][/font]
[quote]Joe QBR vs OPP

Arizona Cardinals: Game 55 - 72.0

Atlanta Falcons: Game 41 - 99.5

Buffalo Bills: Game 39 - 111.0

Carolina Panters: Game 42 - 110.8

Chicago Bears: Game 30 - 135.6

Cincinnati Bengals: Game 1 - 63.7, Game 12 - 119.9, Game 21 - 70.1, Game 24 - 48.3, Game 34 - 23.8, Game 48 - 69.0, Game 58 - 105.5, Game 64 - 112.7, Game 65 - 128.4, Game 80 - 61.5

Cleveland Browns: Game 2 - 47.8, Game 8 - 109.6, Game 19 - 111.8, Game 25 - 98.1, Game 35 - 128.7, Game 47 - 90.2, Game 60 - 66.9, Game 63 - 73.6, Game 68 - 83.2, Game 72 - 94.6

Dallas Cowboys: Game 15 - 96.9, Game 70 - 106.9

Denver Broncos: Game 23 - 109.2, Game 37 - 81.4, Game 78 - 76.5

Detroit Lions: Game 29 - 120.8

Green Bay Packers: Game 28 - 27.2

Houston Texans: Game 9 - 118.9, Game 45 - 107.5, Game 53 - 78.5, Game 71 - 45.4

Indianapolis Colts: Game 5 - 57.0, Game 26 - 75.4, Game 61 - 102.5

Jacksonville Jaguars: Game 16 - 115.8, Game 54 - 61.0

Kansas City Chiefs: Game 17 - 95.8, Game 69 - 55.6

Miami Dolphins: Game 6 - 120.2, Game 40 - 129.6

Minnesota Vikings: Game 22 - 109.2

New England Patriots: Game 20 - 78.7, Game 38 - 119.3, Game 67 - 117.7

New Orleans Saints: Game 46 - 112.9

New York Giants: Game 10 - 58.1, Game 79 - 114.2

New York Jets: Game 33 - 62.2, Game 52 - 37.4

Oakland Raiders: Game 7 - 81.9, Game 32 - 72.7, Game 73 - 115.8

Philadelphia Eagles: Game 11 - 95.5, Game 66 - 66.8

Pittsburgh Steelers: Game 3 - 81.7, Game 14 - 22.2, Game 27 - 100.8, Game 31 - 83.1, Game 36 - 82.7, Game 44 - 88.7, Game 49 - 117.6, Game 56 - 85.4, Game 74 - 75.5, Game 76 - 61.9

San Diego Chargers: Game 18 - 96.6, Game 62 - 81.3, Game 75 - 86.6

Seattle Seahawks: Game 57 - 67.4

San Francisco 49ers: Game 59 - 100.1

St. Louis Rams: Game 51 - 103.6

Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Game 43 - 103.2

Tenneessee Titans: Game 4 - 50.4, Game 50 - 51.2

Washington Redskins: Game 13 - 64.4, Game 77 - 121.4[/quote]

[Raven Hammer]

Playing QB in this town is a tough gig. Joe or anybody else can't win with some people. Joe may or may not ever be as good as Payton or Tom but he is the best this town has seen since Johnny U. I still remember the parade of qb's that marched through this town before joe got here. If the next Tom Brady or Payton falls in our lap OK but until then get on board. Joe Flacco is the QB of the Baltimore Ravens. He's led us to five straight playoff births. I dont know about the rest of you guys but i like our seasons not ending in Dec. There's alot of things that have to go right to win the SB. The very first thing is Makeing the Playoff's. If we win this year Joe will be just a part of it. If we don't Joe will still be just a part of it.