Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1356974889' post='1284887']

Yeah, Russell Okung and Trent Williams. That type of young LT type talent would do wonders. If RG3 and Joe were on the board back when Joe was a rookie I'd take RG3 but as of now I want Joe and more talent.
[/quote]im not sure i would, based on durability alone. I'm not sure how long RG 3 lasts he really needs to avoid big hits.

Before the draft I felt the colts made a mistake not taking him, now I'm not so sure, he might only see 12 or so games a season which won't cut it

[ravens__]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1356975161' post='1284889']
im not sure i would, based on durability alone. I'm not sure how long RG 3 lasts he really needs to avoid big hits.

Before the draft I felt the colts made a mistake not taking him, now I'm not so sure, he might only see 12 or so games a season which won't cut it
[/quote]

Glad I'm not the only one feeling that way about RG3.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='ravens__' timestamp='1356975873' post='1284900']


Glad I'm not the only one feeling that way about RG3.
[/quote]dont get me wrong i think he will be a great QB, just not a great one over a full season. I think he will go the way of Vick, albeit better when he does play.

But forgive me for being old fashioned, I'd rather a good QB play 16 games than a great one playing 10 or 12.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1356975161' post='1284889']
im not sure i would, based on durability alone. [b]I'm not sure how long RG 3 lasts he really needs to avoid big hits.[/b]

Before the draft I felt the colts made a mistake not taking him, now I'm not so sure, he might only see 12 or so games a season which won't cut it
[/quote]

He seems to be more run-first than so far in the league than he seemed like he was in college. He really hasn't progressed in avoiding that big hit and sliding, and I've seen some things with accuracy as well.

[callahan09]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1356974748' post='1284883']
just curious, where would Alex smith be on that list
[/quote]

He would come in front of Rodgers for 3rd place:

Alex Smith: (5 + 1) / (218 + 24 + 31) = 1.75%

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1356975161' post='1284889']
im not sure i would, based on durability alone. I'm not sure how long RG 3 lasts he really needs to avoid big hits.

Before the draft I felt the colts made a mistake not taking him, now I'm not so sure, he might only see 12 or so games a season which won't cut it
[/quote]
I'm just saying if you put both their college tape on and both were on the board I'd take RG3 as a rookie. But as of now I'd rather just stick with Joe.

[Claire]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1356985883' post='1285106']
I'm just saying if you put both their college tape on and both were on the board I'd take RG3 as a rookie. But as of now I'd rather just stick with Joe.
[/quote]

How many years would you stick with flacco without going to the SB?

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='Claire' timestamp='1356990781' post='1285222']
How many years would you stick with flacco without going to the SB?
[/quote]
I'll stick with Joe for as long as he plays well and we make the playoffs. I realize how frustrated some people are, and he's had some erratic play but he's a good QB and I'd rather develop talent and chemistry then to jump ship.

That said if there's some disaster and we have the top pick or something like that I may consider it.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1356974889' post='1284887']
Yeah, Russell Okung and Trent Williams. That type of young LT type talent would do wonders. If RG3 and Joe were on the board back when Joe was a rookie I'd take RG3 but as of now I want Joe and more talent.
[/quote]

gotcha..

..yea, i *wish* we had some young stud like Trent/Okung or even a blue chip guy like Duane Brown(26th).

I can almost gurantee Oher or someone in the O-line will do something stupid again in the playoff to cost us something big

[Claire]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1356990991' post='1285224']
I'll stick with Joe for as long as he plays well and we make the playoffs. I realize how frustrated some people are, and he's had some erratic play but he's a good QB and I'd rather develop talent and chemistry then to jump ship.

That said if there's some disaster and we have the top pick or something like that I may consider it.
[/quote]

I think we have no choice but to stick with flacco. The team has invested so much money and time in him between trying to build an offense around him, all of the thousands of hours of coaching, changes in coaching staff etc. I just don't know how many years to stick with him without getting to a SB.

[Ravenslifer]

I really don't get this topic at all at this point. Joe finished this season with the most yards, second most TDs, second highest QBR, tied for the fewest interceptions of his career, and a lot of those milestones were reached after the Redskins game, when Cam was fired and the scheme changed - Flacco's completion percentage went up and he basically doubled the rate of his touchdown passes at the end of the season - to me this proves Cam's scheme was responsible for a lot of the inconsistencies of Joe in particular and our offense in general - it should also be noted that Rice's and Pierce's numbers also went up under Caldwell, especially Pierce. How does this not prove that Cam was the major reason this offense has been held back the last few years?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Claire' timestamp='1356990781' post='1285222']
How many years would you stick with flacco without going to the SB?
[/quote]

Hmmm..how many years did Marino play in Miami and NEVER see a SB? Are you saying that you would have moved on from Marino because the Dolphins failed to make the SB?

I'm just a little confused I suppose.

IMHO Fantasy Football has corrupted most of the football minds around here. Elite? Who cares. FF numbers? Who cares. At then end of the season, there are only two numbers that matter: wins & losses. Joe wins. Sure he has been somewhat inconsistent lately. It's too early to tell if that was mostly on Cam, but I think we've seen enough to know that at least some of that falls there. But in the end, he wins more than he loses. That is what counts and what gets you to the playoffs and a chance to reach the SB.

[Claire]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1356996093' post='1285298']
Hmmm..how many years did Marino play in Miami and NEVER see a SB? Are you saying that you would have moved on from Marino because the Dolphins failed to make the SB?

I'm just a little confused I suppose.

IMHO Fantasy Football has corrupted most of the football minds around here. Elite? Who cares. FF numbers? Who cares. At then end of the season, there are only two numbers that matter: wins & losses. Joe wins. Sure he has been somewhat inconsistent lately. It's too early to tell if that was mostly on Cam, but I think we've seen enough to know that at least some of that falls there. But in the end, he wins more than he loses. That is what counts and what gets you to the playoffs and a chance to reach the SB.
[/quote]



I'm not saying anything, just asking a question. I'm not sure how many years the Ravens should stick with flacco without going to a SB. Seven - ten years??? I'm not sure if the Ravens have any standard as far a SB, it's been over a decade, just wondered how important it is to go to a SB. I THINK, now days, a team like the Steelers would not go for more than 4 or 5 years with a qb who did not lead them back to the SB. Just wondered if the Ravens had similar high expectations for our qb.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1356994365' post='1285280']
I really don't get this topic at all at this point. Joe finished this season with the most yards, second most TDs, second highest QBR, tied for the fewest interceptions of his career, and a lot of those milestones were reached after the Redskins game, when Cam was fired and the scheme changed - Flacco's completion percentage went up and he basically doubled the rate of his touchdown passes at the end of the season - to me this proves Cam's scheme was responsible for a lot of the inconsistencies of Joe in particular and our offense in general - it should also be noted that Rice's and Pierce's numbers also went up under Caldwell, especially Pierce. How does this not prove that Cam was the major reason this offense has been held back the last few years?
[/quote]

You got all of this from the Giants game?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Claire' timestamp='1357000731' post='1285346']
I'm not saying anything, just asking a question. I'm not sure how many years the Ravens should stick with flacco without going to a SB. Seven - ten years??? I'm not sure if the Ravens have any standard as far a SB, it's been over a decade, just wondered how important it is to go to a SB. I THINK, now days, a team like the Steelers would not go for more than 4 or 5 years with a qb who did not lead them back to the SB. Just wondered if the Ravens had similar high expectations for our qb.
[/quote]

Obviously, no one can speak for the FO.

In the five years Flacco has been here we have made the playoffs every season.
We have won at least one playoff game every season.
We have made it as far as the AFCCG twice.

I just don't see the odds of making a SB getting any better than that. It is hard to reach the SB. That is why it is extremely rare for a team to repeat. It is two teams out of 32 that get there. Those are long odds. It is not just on the shoulders of the QB (regardless of the team) either. Last year, Evans' drop, Cundiff choke. There was a Housh drop. Boldin drop. There was the Rice fumble and then the complete breakdown. Stuff happens. Sometimes it seems the universe is working against you at every turn.

I guess to answer your question, we are not talking about a Romo, who is 1-7 in Week 17 big games & playoff appearances. As long as we are being successful, the odds don't get much better than where we've been.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1357002158' post='1285380']
You got all of this from the Giants game?
[/quote]

No - what I saw is that after Cam left, Joe and the offense got much better. Like I said, that proves to me Cam held Joe back. I'm just trying to figure out why this "assessment" still continues - what else do people need to see and/or not see? So far we've seen everything - Joe without Cam is better than Joe with Cam, Tyrod did not "light it up" like certain people were predicting, which should have proved to most people that Joe is and has been the best option this team has had during his tenure. So why does this nonsense persist that we can just get anybody and he'll magically lead us to a Superbowl because everything is on Joe?

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[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1357022854' post='1285593']
No - what I saw is that after Cam left, Joe and the offense got much better. Like I said, that proves to me Cam held Joe back. I'm just trying to figure out why this "assessment" still continues - [u][b]what else do people need to see[/b][/u] and/or not see? So far we've seen everything - Joe without Cam is better than Joe with Cam, Tyrod did not "light it up" like certain people were predicting, which should have proved to most people that Joe is and has been the best option this team has had during his tenure. So why does this nonsense persist that we can just get anybody and he'll magically lead us to a Superbowl because everything is on Joe?
[/quote]

well for me....Joe is a 5th year starting QB. and while he played well vs the Giants (after being highly criticized for 3 horrible games in a row)....that was ONE game! ONE game! Joe needs to string these "types" of QB performances together week after week for me to feel differently about him. and now that it is playoffs time....the Ravens can't afford poor QB play. sure, everyone on the team has to play well but definitely Joe Flacco.

~Mili

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355089043' post='1252843']
stop that! Stop that right now! Stop making sense!!! Common sense isn't allowed!
[/quote]

[callahan09]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1357076419' post='1286099']
well for me....Joe is a 5th year starting QB. and while he played well vs the Giants (after being highly criticized for 3 horrible games in a row)....that was ONE game! ONE game! Joe needs to string these "types" of QB performances together week after week for me to feel differently about him. and now that it is playoffs time....the Ravens can't afford poor QB play. sure, everyone on the team has to play well but definitely Joe Flacco.

~Mili
[/quote]

People are going overboard with the "3 horrible games in a row" talk. He played well in the Redskins game. The INT that he tossed was not really his fault. The line completely broke down, he was trying to unload the ball, someone tipped it, someone else made a ridiculously athletic & lucky play to catch it before it hit the ground. It was a chaos type play that was one of those "dammit, the ball just didn't bounce our way on that one" (we had a lot of those in recent weeks... including missing quite a few takeaway opportunities on defense due to that sort of thing).

The fumble was also a result of no receiver getting opened on a stupid, poorly designed slow-developing play call from the soon-to-be-let-go Cam Cameron, and Michael Oher got beat bad and the pass rusher came in from behind on Flacco's blind side. That happens to every quarterback.

Lost in all that is the fact that he threw 3 TDs and had over a 100 passer rating, and we put up 28 points, most on the road of the entire season. Flacco handed an 8 point lead over to the defense, who proceeded to let a rookie backup drive the length of the field for a touchdown, then get a two point conversion, and in overtime the special teams coverage let them return the ball deep into field goal territory.

Flacco had a great game marred by a couple of plays that didn't go his way and weren't really his fault, and the defense & special teams lost the game for him anyway.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1357151325' post='1286912']
[i][u][b]People are going overboard with the "3 horrible games in a row" talk. [/b][/u][/i] He played well in the Redskins game. The INT that he tossed was not really his fault. The line completely broke down, he was trying to unload the ball, someone tipped it, someone else made a ridiculously athletic & lucky play to catch it before it hit the ground. It was a chaos type play that was one of those "dammit, the ball just didn't bounce our way on that one" (we had a lot of those in recent weeks... including missing quite a few takeaway opportunities on defense due to that sort of thing).

The fumble was also a result of no receiver getting opened on a stupid, poorly designed slow-developing play call from the soon-to-be-let-go Cam Cameron, and Michael Oher got beat bad and the pass rusher came in from behind on Flacco's blind side. That happens to every quarterback.

Lost in all that is the fact that he threw 3 TDs and had over a 100 passer rating, and we put up 28 points, most on the road of the entire season. Flacco handed an 8 point lead over to the defense, who proceeded to let a rookie backup drive the length of the field for a touchdown, then get a two point conversion, and in overtime the special teams coverage let them return the ball deep into field goal territory.

Flacco had a great game marred by a couple of plays that didn't go his way and weren't really his fault, and the defense & special teams lost the game for him anyway.
[/quote]

it is what it is man!

~Mili

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1357151325' post='1286912']


People are going overboard with the "3 horrible games in a row" talk. He played well in the Redskins game. The INT that he tossed was not really his fault. The line completely broke down, he was trying to unload the ball, someone tipped it, someone else made a ridiculously athletic & lucky play to catch it before it hit the ground. It was a chaos type play that was one of those "dammit, the ball just didn't bounce our way on that one" (we had a lot of those in recent weeks... including missing quite a few takeaway opportunities on defense due to that sort of thing).

The fumble was also a result of no receiver getting opened on a stupid, poorly designed slow-developing play call from the soon-to-be-let-go Cam Cameron, and Michael Oher got beat bad and the pass rusher came in from behind on Flacco's blind side. That happens to every quarterback.

Lost in all that is the fact that he threw 3 TDs and had over a 100 passer rating, and we put up 28 points, most on the road of the entire season. Flacco handed an 8 point lead over to the defense, who proceeded to let a rookie backup drive the length of the field for a touchdown, then get a two point conversion, and in overtime the special teams coverage let them return the ball deep into field goal territory.

Flacco had a great game marred by a couple of plays that didn't go his way and weren't really his fault, and the defense & special teams lost the game for him anyway.
[/quote]Thank you

[Mick0311]

I will add this; if Flacco is the reason we lose in Ray's last game, he is dead to me...DEAD I TELL YOU!! lmao

This is meant as a lighthearted post. (unless it comes true, then I'm waiting in his bushes)

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1357156648' post='1287122']
I will add this; if Flacco is the reason we lose in Ray's last game, he is dead to me...DEAD I TELL YOU!! lmao

This is meant as a lighthearted post. (unless it comes true, then I'm waiting in his bushes)
[/quote]

Like this was necessary.

We could have a 8 point lead with 30 seconds left, the opposing team on their own 10, moving 90 yards to score. And that will be Flacco's fault.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357156806' post='1287126']
Like this was necessary.

We could have a 8 point lead with 30 seconds left, the opposing team on their own 10, moving 90 yards to score. And that will be Flacco's fault.
[/quote]
NO NO NO!

EVERYTHING IS JOE'S FAULT~Every Flacco troll ever.

We need to attack early on, that's how we beat the Giants, get the lead to an amount, no one can catch up with

[Mick0311]

Man, I like Flacco as our QB. My post was meant as a joke. I thought that would be obvious by the smiley faces and statements as such. Wow, you guys are ridiculous.

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1357159475' post='1287211']
Man, I like Flacco as our QB. My post was meant as a joke. I thought that would be obvious by the smiley faces and statements as such. Wow, you guys are ridiculous.
[/quote]

I like Ray Lewis a lot, but his announcement will put a ton of pressure on Joe. Not, because Joe will be nervous. We all know, that Flacco is clutch, but a ton of people will hate him for every incomplete pass he'll throw. Even more so, then they do already. And there's a "I want Tyrod Taylor"-thread on this message-board already.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Mick0311' timestamp='1357159475' post='1287211']
Man, I like Flacco as our QB. My post was meant as a joke. I thought that would be obvious by the smiley faces and statements as such. Wow, you guys are ridiculous.
[/quote]

I knew it was a joke.

All I meant was the statement wasn't necessary since no matter how it occurs if we don't make the SB it will be Flacco's fault anyway.

I fixed one of your negs for you too.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1357163148' post='1287301']
I knew it was a joke.

All I meant was the statement wasn't necessary since no matter how it occurs if we don't make the SB it will be Flacco's fault anyway.

I fixed one of your negs for you too.
[/quote]
I tried fixing a neg too...... I aperantly voted already
?

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1357162581' post='1287286']
I like Ray Lewis a lot, but his announcement will put a ton of pressure on Joe. Not, because Joe will be nervous. We all know, that Flacco is clutch, but a ton of people will hate him for every incomplete pass he'll throw. Even more so, then they do already. [b]And there's a "I want Tyrod Taylor"-thread on this message-board already.[/b]
[/quote]

It should have been silenced by his performance on Sunday.