Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[Purple_ICE 81]

1. Drew Brees
2. Tom Brady
3.Aaron Rodgers
4. Peyton Manning
5. Eli manning
6. Ben Rothelisburger
7. [b]Joe Flacco[/b]
8. Phillip Rivers
9. Matt Ryan
10.Matt Schaub

[ratedr]

Great quarterbacks make their weapons better. Let's not scapegoat the receivers, because clearly he's fine with them at home. He's simply not a good QB on the road with a few exceptions, point blank period. And for a team with SB aspirations, that's unacceptable.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350922322' post='1200336']
Great quarterbacks make their weapons better. [b]Let's not scapegoat the receivers[/b], [b]because clearly he's fine with them at home. He's simply not a good QB on the road with a few exceptions, point blank period. [/b]And for a team with SB aspirations, that's unacceptable.
[/quote]

Acknowledging the WRs struggle to gain separtion isn't scapegoating them. That's been an issue regardless of where the team is playing. Even against Cowboys when the offense was efficiently moving the ball, it took a lot of great throws and contested catches. The easiest completion I remember came when a CB fell down leaving Q wide open.

I can't deny Joe has looked poor on the road, but almost no aspect of the passing offense has either. The running game has often failed to be established or emphasized. The o-line routinely struggles. And the receivers struggle to separate (Cam doesn't make their jobs easier).

[atljbo]

why do ppl keep saying Matt Ryan Played with Julio Jones and Tony G since he was rookie... Last year was Julio Rookie year...lol... Matt Ryan was the RTookie of the year and took us to the playoff without Tony G ...... Ima just drop the Matt Ryan talk because its not about Ryan... Its about Flacco.... On the first couple of pages i gave my outside looking in opinion...

You guys have a good QB.... Run Ray Rice so you can use Joe at his strength ... A safety in the box so Joe show off that gun of a arm that he has.... His thing is not picking apart a D.

[ratedr]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1350923621' post='1200363']
why do ppl keep saying Matt Ryan Played with Julio Jones and Tony G since he was rookie... Last year was Julio Rookie year...lol... Matt Ryan was the RTookie of the year and took us to the playoff without Tony G ...... Ima just drop the Matt Ryan talk because its not about Ryan... Its about Flacco.... On the first couple of pages i gave my outside looking in opinion...

You guys have a good QB.... Run Ray Rice so you can use Joe at his strength ... A safety in the box so Joe show off that gun of a arm that he has.... His thing is not picking apart a D.
[/quote]Nobody has mentioned Matt Ryan for the longest, no need to resurrect the subject.

[POE]

Simply put, the WR's aren't being used properly, the middle of the field is being under utilized in the passing game, Cam chooses to pass often when we should be running, the o-line gives up way too much pressure, Flacco looked much better when he looks to have control of the offense using audibles instead of following what is sent in from the coaches. Joe did look a bit off from the start of the game, throwing behind receivers and over throwing them often, but there was much more than just Joe's mistakes that was just shameful.

[ratedr]

[quote name='POE' timestamp='1350924142' post='1200377']
Simply put, the WR's aren't being used properly, the middle of the field is being under utilized in the passing game, Cam chooses to pass often when we should be running, the o-line gives up way too much pressure, Flacco looked much better when he looks to have control of the offense using audibles instead of following what is sent in from the coaches. Joe did look a bit off from the start of the game, throwing behind receivers and over throwing them often, but there was much more than just Joe's mistakes that was just shameful.
[/quote]I agree, coaching is a HUGE issue. I wish we could've gotten a new OC before paying him.

On the bright side, if we get him for cheap and he turns out to be great under a new OC, that's fantastic for the cap.

[ravensfan160]

After the safety and pick six I knew it was going to be one of those games for Flacco where he is just terrible and there is little we can do about it. The Jaguars game last year comes to mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the back of their minds our defense felt the same way. They came out and played so well until the offense starting vomiting all over themselves. Coincidence? Maybe, but I knew that pick six pretty much decided the game in the first half.

[Npane171]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350889429' post='1199917']
Yeah, I think it would be stating the obvious to say that Flacco played like crap today. Yes, I realize that he had no chance to succeed between our OL, our poor play at WR and as always, Cam Cameron. But, he played just as bad as everyone else did.

But I dont care about that. It happens, not the first and wont be the last; I can take the good with the bad.

What DOES bother me is that at one stretch of the game, it looked like every single person on the offense, including Flacco, just gave up early in the third quarter.
Maybe that is just imagined, maybe I was misreading body language, but I dont think that I am...I think they flat out gave up on themselves at one point.
[/quote]

I was at the game, and one the most disturbing things the loud-mouth fans said to me was that the Ravens were giving up. It wasn't just you that saw it; even the Texans fans saw it, and they loved every second of it while I sat there with my arms crossed, silent, sunken in my seat. "Hey, your boys are just laying down for us. Haha." Terrible, terrible thing to witness...

[berad]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350926407' post='1200440']
I was at the game, and one the most disturbing things the loud-mouth fans said to me was that the Ravens were giving up. It wasn't just you that saw it; even the Texans fans saw it, and they loved every second of it while I sat there with my arms crossed, silent, sunken in my seat. "Hey, your boys are just laying down for us. Haha." Terrible, terrible thing to witness...
[/quote]

I don't buy that. Not when Osemele was carted off the field, Ngata hobbled off, and Ed Reed was down on the sideline [i](thought I heard some Texan fan cheers but that's another topic)[/i] and all of those guys came back to play - even when it was pretty obvious what was going to happen.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350926407' post='1200440']
I was at the game, and one the most disturbing things the loud-mouth fans said to me was that the Ravens were giving up. It wasn't just you that saw it; even the Texans fans saw it, and they loved every second of it while I sat there with my arms crossed, silent, sunken in my seat. "Hey, your boys are just laying down for us. Haha." Terrible, terrible thing to witness...
[/quote]

It must have felt great for them to beat our second string defense. Hope they enjoyed it.

[Npane171]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350926652' post='1200450']
It must have felt great for them to beat our second string defense. Hope they enjoyed it.
[/quote]

Yeah, I made that comment but, of course, it was met with the "No excuses" one. Hopefully we can see them again and put them out of the playoffs. That would really be worth it all!

[flynismo]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350926872' post='1200457']
Yeah, I made that comment but, of course, it was met with the "No excuses" one. Hopefully we can see them again and put them out of the playoffs. That would really be worth it all!
[/quote]

No excuses? The same people that swore that the only reason we kicked them out of the playoffs last year was because Schaub wasn't playing?

[ratedr]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350926872' post='1200457']


Yeah, I made that comment but, of course, it was met with the "No excuses" one. Hopefully we can see them again and put them out of the playoffs. That would really be worth it all!
[/quote]Funny from Texans fans, who had every excuse ready when we swept them last year.

[Blex64]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350926652' post='1200450']
It must have felt great for them to beat our second string defense. Hope they enjoyed it.
[/quote]

Can we not do this, and make bad excuses? With Webb and Lewis out for the foreseeable future, that was our first team defense. If we seem them in the playoffs, that's probably going to be the defense we see them with (assuming we don't have even more injuries).

We stunk it up, on both sides of the ball. Almost nobody played a good game. Rice was abandoned early (I'm aware we were down 2 TDs quick, but I would have liked us to run a bit on that drive, the game was not yet out of hand.

The Oline stunk it up that game. We were playing real good football until that awful safety, which came off not 1 but 2 unblocked defenders (I think it was a DB blitz, don't remember). Batted passes were a huge issue. One of the ways to allieviate that is pump faking. Part of that is on Joe, for not doing it, part of it is on the Oline for not giving him time, and part of it is on Cam for not rolling him out to stop batted passes. That drive was crucial and required some quick adjustments that we didn't make. Run, followed by play action with Joe rolling out, do something other then the same garbage over and over again.

This is why were so fed up with Cam. He can't solve problems on the field, he goes in with what he's got and we either execute or we don't.

Our defense is a larger issue as a whole, and I don't even know what to say about it. We suck. I don't know if its Pees or all these new starters, or (probbly) both, but we need to make some changes. I was glad to see Cody starting today, and Suggs back is a godsend, but I don't know what else to say. We've missed Redding badly all season, and hopefully our OLB play as a whole will improve greatly.

[ellicottraven]

Most telling stat: I don't really know what it means other than it cannot be good right?

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/joe-flacco/3e20766f-6520-4ca1-9901-44389aaea8b8/"]Joe Flacco[img]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/url][color=#555555][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(225, 227, 228)] had a [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens"]Total QBR[/url][color=#555555][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(225, 227, 228)] (a metric that accounts for everything a QB does) of 0.3 in Sunday's loss to the Texans, the lowest in a single game by any player over the last 5 seasons (min. 30 action plays[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[flynismo]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1350927862' post='1200478']
Can we not do this, and make bad excuses?
[/quote]

Who's making excuses?
Even if it were being used as an excuse, I'd say that Not having Ray and Webb, and having an injured Ed Reed and Ngata, and Suggs' situation are pretty good excuses for the level of play that we saw from our defense.

[ratedr]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1350928227' post='1200489']
Most telling stat: I don't really know what it means other than it cannot be good right?

[url="http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster/joe-flacco/3e20766f-6520-4ca1-9901-44389aaea8b8/"]Joe Flacco[img]http://www.baltimoreravens.com/assets/nflimg/icon-article-link.gif[/img][/url][color=#555555][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(225, 227, 228)] had a [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/bal/baltimore-ravens"]Total QBR[/url][color=#555555][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(225, 227, 228)] (a metric that accounts for everything a QB does) of 0.3 in Sunday's loss to the Texans, the lowest in a single game by any player over the last 5 seasons (min. 30 action plays[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]It doesn't tell you anything because QBR is a made up stat by ESPN. The same star said Brady was better than Flacco in the AFC title game.

I don't need a fake stat to tell me he was awful.

[Dannyre]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350928669' post='1200501']
Who's making excuses?
Even if it were being used as an excuse, I'd say that Not having Ray and Webb, and having an injured Ed Reed and Ngata, and Suggs' situation are pretty good excuses for the level of play that we saw from our defense.
[/quote]

I cannot believe that anyone would point out the injury problems the Ravens have as an excuse for not performing well. The Texans came one play away from beating the Ravens in the playoffs last year using multiple second stringers and a THIRD string quarterback...suck it up, you just got outplayed...

[flynismo]

[quote name='Dannyre' timestamp='1350930953' post='1200560']
I cannot believe that anyone would point out the injury problems the Ravens have as an excuse for not performing well. The Texans came one play away from beating the Ravens in the playoffs last year using multiple second stringers and a THIRD string quarterback...suck it up, you just got outplayed...
[/quote]

Nobody is using that as an excuse. I said this:

[i]Even if it were being used as an excuse, I'd say that Not having Ray and Webb, and having an injured Ed Reed and Ngata, and Suggs' situation are pretty good excuses for the level of play that we saw from our defense.[/i]

So, that being said, if Ray Lewis and Webb are out, Ed Reed and Ngata are playing hurt, and Suggs is playing part time after not seeing the field all year (and who knows how close he is to 100%), do you not think it is reasonable to expect your defensive production to slip significantly when four future HOF players are either missing or injured? And the fifth guy is easily a top 5 CB in the league?

[Tank 92]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1350919983' post='1200249']
I accidentally hit +1. Joe's O line his first and 2nd year were excellent. Even last year and this year they have been very good. I'm tired of it always being the o line. I'll give some of the sacks to play design as well. A major problem with Joe, that continues to be a problem is he plain holds the ball to damn long. I'm watching Dalton play last night and even in his second year he seems to have a better internal clock than Flacco. There have been MANY plays where guys are open and he's just locked into certain players and doesn't hit the open guy. The safety never should've happened yesterday and it seems he's always good for at least 2-3 ROOKIE mistakes a game. Those are things you can't defend.
[/quote]


I won't debate how good our O line has been. I think if you have watched the games the proof is there to see. And it's been a different group each year. Hard to build chemistry with each other that way. Safety should have never happened? The guy that sacked him came unblocked from the blind side before Joe even set his feet. And watching Williams whiff on a block from a head fake was comical! Talk about rookie mistakes.........

And the receiving corps? I think anyone would say that this year is by far the best all around group we've had in the past 5 years. But, this is the first year that group is together as a whole and they are running a new scheme. In games when the passing game has struggled, you often hear "the Ravens receivers can't get separation". What's up with that? Is it poor route running? Is it bad play calling? You tell me. Did they have rib grease on their fingers in KC? I don't know.

I'm not saying Joe is beyond reproach. What I am saying is that others that have seemed to have had more success have operated with a much more stable squad than him. I think he has done quite well with what he has had to work with. Cmon' man! Even Rogers has an off day now and again. And look at the group of receivers he has had in recent years.

[callahan09]

The play calling and play designs are just so abysmally bad sometimes that I can't believe Cam Cameron actually has a job in the NFL. This is ridiculous.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Dannyre' timestamp='1350930953' post='1200560']
I cannot believe that anyone would point out the injury problems the Ravens have as an excuse for not performing well. The Texans came one play away from beating the Ravens in the playoffs last year using multiple second stringers and a THIRD string quarterback...[u][b]suck it up, you just got outplayed.[/b][/u]..
[/quote]

1st...i agree with you. we got outplayed! you'll get no excuses from me by using the "injury" or "we're hurt" excuse. this is the NFL, and all of these cats are pros and all teams have to play through that. yesterday...we didn't! point blank!

2nd..we got outplayed in 1 game yesterday like we've outplayed your texans in 6 previously and we had to listened to you all make the excuses of not have mario, andre or shaub. now own that! just sayin!

good game...but it was 1 loss for the Ravens who are still 5-2. the Ravens and texans will meet again and when they do, it will be a very different Ravens offense and defense that the texans will face. great win....enjoy it!

~Mili

[nk02442]

Joe played like a scared little girl. He couldnt hit any of his guys even when they were open. The offense woes lay mostly on him.

[FerrariFan87]

Cam Cam has cost Flacco an easy $10 million... he better sign quick before it gets any worse with 5 road games remaining.

[RavensPunkXVX]

Do we use any of our tight ends to help block or are they mostly just used for passing? I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday, but I watched highlights, and noticed on the safety, one guy came in untouched.

After watching, Pitt, I like the way Heath Miller is used. I wish we could have Flacco, Rice, and one of our TE's to help block. Like, in shotgun situations, one on each side.

[berad]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1350934372' post='1200658']
Do we use any of our tight ends to help block or are they mostly just used for passing? I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday, but I watched highlights, and noticed on the safety, one guy came in untouched.

After watching, Pitt, I like the way Heath Miller is used. I wish we could have Flacco, Rice, and one of our TE's to help block. Like, in shotgun situations, one on each side.
[/quote]

Miller's a much, much better blocker than any of our guys

[RavensPunkXVX]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1350934565' post='1200664']
Miller's a much, much better blocker than any of our guys
[/quote]

True. That's one thing I always appreciated about Todd Heap. Solid tight end. It just sucks to see so much pressure, when we could easily get our TE's involved.

[berad]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1350934724' post='1200668']
True. That's one thing I always appreciated about Todd Heap. Solid tight end. It just sucks to see so much pressure, when we could easily get our TE's involved.
[/quote]

Definitely true.

Semi off-topic but at one point during the game, I saw Flacco in the shotgun with Leach at his side [i](Rice was watching on the sidelines)[/i], I think that speaks to how poor Rice is in pass protection

[ratedr]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1350934372' post='1200658']
Do we use any of our tight ends to help block or are they mostly just used for passing? I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday, but I watched highlights, and noticed on the safety, one guy came in untouched.

After watching, Pitt, I like the way Heath Miller is used. I wish we could have Flacco, Rice, and one of our TE's to help block. Like, in shotgun situations, one on each side.
[/quote]Only Bajema is used for blocking. We used him during the Dallas game, but he was inactive yesterday.