Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

[ratedr]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1350881784' post='1199835']
Yall dont make threads anymore but ive heard plenty of Raven fans say they wanted Ryan to fell in games... Mainly because of the Ryan and Flacco thing in the other team game threads.... So its not a big difference... It is what it is... Like i said... atleast 90% of us Falcon fans are way past that but some are not.
[/quote]Maybe back in 2010, when the comparisons were at an all-time high. Not so much anymore, we have our own issues to deal with before worrying about Matt Ryan.

For what I've seen over there most Falcons fans think Flacco isn't even comparable, so the fact that he's still such a hot topic of discussion is a bit amusing.

[atljbo]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1350881746' post='1199834']
When it comes to pure physical tools, I don't think it's a stretch to say Flacco is the most gifted in the league. He has arguably the strongest arm and beyond ideal height and build for the position. We need to find a coordinator who is better able to apply those tools.
[/quote]

Im glad you brought this up...The thing is most of the most physical tool QB's dont reach the Peyton Manning or Brady or Brees level because they are so talented... Peyton and Brand heck Matt Ryan has to be so sharpe on their Mechanics and mental approach because if they wasnt.. They cant get away with half the stuff an ultra talented QB can.

That what Makes Rodgers so special....First of all dude has a GREAT SCHEME.... Its built to make a QB succeed.... But dude is gifted athletically and mentally

[ratedr]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1350881980' post='1199838']
I agree that it's a function of our weapons. I'm steadily losing my faith in Boldin (disregard the sig) and though I like Torrey and Jacoby and even Doss, none of them can be considered elite. Matt Ryan has arguably the top receiver tandem in the league plus a HOF TE in Gonzalez. It would be completely shameful for him not to produce in that position. Compare to Flacco, and I can't see him having all that much success without that proven, elite weapon.

Tangent: Dwayne Bowe wants to leave KC [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/17/report-dwayne-bowe-wants-out-of-kansas-city-very-badly/"]http://profootballta...ity-very-badly/[/url]

I love Joe and will support him through thick and thin, but I have to admit his ceiling is low given the lack of true weaponry around him, relative to the rest of the league. Not to mention this defense has been disgusting all year.
[/quote]I think Flacco's weapons are fine (well...he needs a better #2 TE if we're gonna run 2 TE sets...Dickson isn't good enough). But I do not like the OC.

[SecretAgentMan]

The ravens are one of the favorites for a reason, and it's not the d. It's bc of Flacco and rice, the best QB RB tandem in the nfl

[atljbo]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1350881980' post='1199838']
I agree that it's a function of our weapons. I'm steadily losing my faith in Boldin (disregard the sig) and though I like Torrey and Jacoby and even Doss, none of them can be considered elite. Matt Ryan has arguably the top receiver tandem in the league plus a HOF TE in Gonzalez. It would be completely shameful for him not to produce in that position. Compare to Flacco, and I can't see him having all that much success without that proven, elite weapon.

Tangent: Dwayne Bowe wants to leave KC [url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/17/report-dwayne-bowe-wants-out-of-kansas-city-very-badly/"]http://profootballta...ity-very-badly/[/url]

I love Joe and will support him through thick and thin, but I have to admit his ceiling is low given the lack of true weaponry around him, relative to the rest of the league. Not to mention this defense has been disgusting all year.
[/quote]

I gotta step in... Ive been trying to not say this because Tony is a HOF so let me say this in a nicer way.... Lets start with this... Matt Ryan was successful when Tony and Julio was here... He had Justin Peele (whose not in the league) and Michael Jenkins (whose the Vikings 4th WR...... THE VIKINGS 4TH WR) .... OK back to what i was saying.... We have a nice mix because i love Tony G .. The guy is a HOF but he is shining because Julio and Roddy command a double team.... Tony is still crafty... Not fast but crafty enough to out body LB's.....

Julio is going to be a beast and Roddy is a beast... I love our weapons... You have to have weapons to compete in the NFC just like in the past you guys had to have a great hard nosed D to compete in the AFC North.


Ryan has great talent but hear what Ryans talent says about him.. Tony was on fox earlier today and he said its working because Ryan is playing out of his skull right now... Ryan is the main reason our offense is what it is.... Right now we dont have a running game to fall back on so its all on him

[atljbo]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350882125' post='1199845']
I think Flacco's weapons are fine (well...he needs a better #2 TE if we're gonna run 2 TE sets...Dickson isn't good enough). But I do not like the OC.
[/quote]

That could be true....Us falcon Fans has been begging for that for years..... I cant lie the switch has made a big difference

[reediddy]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350882125' post='1199845']
I think Flacco's weapons are fine (well...he needs a better #2 TE if we're gonna run 2 TE sets...Dickson isn't good enough). But I do not like the OC.
[/quote]

'Fine' gets you the results you saw today. We need to improve in that department.

[atljbo]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350882059' post='1199840']
Maybe back in 2010, when the comparisons were at an all-time high. Not so much anymore, we have our own issues to deal with before worrying about Matt Ryan.

For what I've seen over there most Falcons fans think Flacco isn't even comparable, so the fact that he's still such a hot topic of discussion is a bit amusing.
[/quote]

I disagree... Most just feel like Ryan is better.... There will ALWAYS be fans on both sides that are ultra pro their QB so much that they are blind..... Im on the falcons board.. I dont think its as bad as you are making it.... Certain fans cant get over the Ryan/Flacco thing on both sides.. I do hate when i see a Flacco thread up on our boards because it makes us look petty when its really like 7 or 8 dudes out of 100's on the boards saying let it go

[Guest RBates]

Really!!!!! the guy still fumbles words in the press conferences. I am sold on him being our guy. Franchise? He's good for now.

His contract needs to be realistic. We need to find him a better Offensive coordinator.

If we are calling him our guy, why not get him all the things he needs to be successful.

[reediddy]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1350882769' post='1199861']
I gotta step in... Ive been trying to not say this because Tony is a HOF so let me say this in a nicer way.... Lets start with this... Matt Ryan was successful when Tony and Julio was here... He had Justin Peele (whose not in the league) and Michael Jenkins (whose the Vikings 4th WR...... THE VIKINGS 4TH WR) .... OK back to what i was saying.... We have a nice mix because i love Tony G .. The guy is a HOF but he is shining because Julio and Roddy command a double team.... Tony is still crafty... Not fast but crafty enough to out body LB's.....

Julio is going to be a beast and Roddy is a beast... I love our weapons... You have to have weapons to compete in the NFC just like in the past you guys had to have a great hard nosed D to compete in the AFC North.


Ryan has great talent but hear what Ryans talent says about him.. Tony was on fox earlier today and he said its working because Ryan is playing out of his skull right now... Ryan is the main reason our offense is what it is.... Right now we dont have a running game to fall back on so its all on him
[/quote]

I think it's mutual. I'm not trying to say that Ryan's success is solely due to his weapons, nor am I saying that the success of his receivers is solely due to his play. I think it makes sense that his weapons play well because they have confidence in their QB and vice versa, and ALSO to the fact that they are on the same page with their OC. There's a strong rapport going on there and it's producing beautiful results.

As far as Ryan's weapons back in the day, an elite guy like Roddy still makes a palpable difference, tell me if I'm wrong. Mike Jenkins was a serviceable dude, you guys also had Harry Douglas who has been there for a while. To be honest I'm getting lost with all the factors it takes to ensure that a QB is successful, but having the weapons is certainly one of the bigger factors, followed by OC chemistry and OL and run game etc etc.

[atljbo]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1350883236' post='1199868']
I think it's mutual. I'm not trying to say that Ryan's success is solely due to his weapons, nor am I saying that the success of his receivers is solely due to his play. I think it makes sense that his weapons play well because they have confidence in their QB and vice versa, and ALSO to the fact that they are on the same page with their OC. There's a strong rapport going on there and it's producing beautiful results.

As far as Ryan's weapons back in the day, an elite guy like Roddy still makes a palpable difference, tell me if I'm wrong. Mike Jenkins was a serviceable dude, you guys also had Harry Douglas who has been there for a while. To be honest I'm getting lost with all the factors it takes to ensure that a QB is successful, but having the weapons is certainly one of the bigger factors, followed by OC chemistry and OL and run game etc etc.
[/quote]

I agree both parties complete each other... (QB and WR's)

To the Weapons... Im sorry... Mike Jenkins didnt have 1 100 yard game for us... Dude wasnt good... Besides Harvin Minny dont have any good WR's... Dude is their 4th WR... Its a reason why we gave up so many picks to go get Julio.... As a falcon fan... TRUST ME.

Roddy has 1 1000 yard season before Ryan..... Since Ryan... Every year has been a 1000 yard year... Roddy wasnt Elite before Ryan got here... The year before Ryan got here we finnaly felt like Roddy finally got it (had his breakout year... That preseason 80% of falcon fans was saying realese him... No lie) .... Dude grew into being elite with Ryan as his QB.... Im not saying Ryan made Roddy Elite... My point is it works hand and hand...



I cant lie.... I wanted us to draft Torrey Smith in that draft (before we went up and got Julio) .... I thought torrey was a #2 speed WR but now i think he has the tools to be a top 10 WR in this league ...

[Npane171]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1350868137' post='1199390']
His INTs were not his fault. And please, he had no time to throw. Thats not a crappy O-Line, its this years beatdown that every team gets.
[/quote]

Please...I was at the game...he played like crap. You can chalk it up to whatever you wish, but he overthrew a lot of receivers and spent entirely too much time in the pocket. You can't stand in the pocket that long against a defense like that. He's not a bad QB by and means, so don't NOT hear me. However, this was a terrible game for him. We looked AWFUL!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350883866' post='1199882']


Please...I was at the game...he played like crap. You can chalk it up to whatever you wish, but he overthrew a lot of receivers and spent entirely too much time in the pocket. You can't stand in the pocket that long against a defense like that. He's not a bad QB by and means, so don't NOT hear me. However, this was a terrible game for him. We looked AWFUL!
[/quote]
Our whole team played like crap. So.... Every QB has at least one bad game all season, this was awful, and KC was bad, but KC wasn't his fault.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350883866' post='1199882']
Please...I was at the game...[u][b]he played like crap.[/b][/u] You can chalk it up to whatever you wish, but [u][b]he overthrew a lot of receivers and spent entirely too much time in the pocket. You can't stand in the pocket that long against a defense like that[/b][/u]. He's not a bad QB by and means, so don't NOT hear me. However, this was a terrible game for him. We looked AWFUL!
[/quote]

hence the safety!

it was unbelievable to see Flacco standing in the endzone, seeing the rush coming and STILL holding onto the ball instead of throwing it at Rice, a receiver or in the dirt as usual and going down with a sack. c'mon son!

~Mili

[flynismo]

Yeah, I think it would be stating the obvious to say that Flacco played like crap today. Yes, I realize that he had no chance to succeed between our OL, our poor play at WR and as always, Cam Cameron. But, he played just as bad as everyone else did.

But I dont care about that. It happens, not the first and wont be the last; I can take the good with the bad.

What DOES bother me is that at one stretch of the game, it looked like every single person on the offense, including Flacco, just gave up early in the third quarter.
Maybe that is just imagined, maybe I was misreading body language, but I dont think that I am...I think they flat out gave up on themselves at one point.

[Greatness]

I can't wait till the off-season. I pray Joe walks and then when we get a real fraud at QB a lot of you will know what time it is.

[D-Rey]

[quote name='Greatness' timestamp='1350889696' post='1199918']
I can't wait till the off-season. I pray Joe walks and then when we get a real fraud at QB a lot of you will know what time it is.
[/quote]I hope that doesn't happen, we know frauds at QB. We've had many of them lol. We need Flacco.

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350889429' post='1199917']
Yeah, I think it would be stating the obvious to say that Flacco played like crap today. Yes, I realize that he had no chance to succeed between our OL, our poor play at WR and as always, Cam Cameron. But, he played just as bad as everyone else did.

But I dont care about that. It happens, not the first and wont be the last; I can take the good with the bad.

What DOES bother me is that at one stretch of the game, [b]it looked like every single person on the offense, including Flacco, just gave up early in the third quarter.[/b]
Maybe that is just imagined, maybe I was misreading body language, but I dont think that I am...I think they flat out gave up on themselves at one point.
[/quote]

You weren't the only person that felt that. I felt it too. It was almost palpable (/Castor-Zuse). You could even see on Harbaugh's face. I'm sure everyone thought that they couldn't wait for the game to be over at one point. I truly believe that most of the team gave up early in the 3rd quarter. We haven't been in that situation in a long time and it caught people by surprise (for them at least).

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Greatness' timestamp='1350889696' post='1199918']
I can't wait till the off-season. I pray Joe walks and then when we get a real fraud at QB a lot of you will know what time it is.
[/quote]
that´s a joke, right?

everybody has bad games. all in all flacco has more good games then bad ones.

he really looked goofy yesterday but those things happen....

[arnie_uk]

Thread ruined by the Ryan talk....

[rlh445]

Joe just didn't have it yesterday at all. It's funny because he's usually the bright spot when the rest of the team isn't bringing it but I guess even he has bad nights. I haven't seen him just blatantly miss throws like that....ever. I mean even in his rookie year, he'd miss guys but it was obvious they were timing routes and our subpar receivers were disrupted or weren't looking or something but tonight he was just flat overthrowing or throwing at a receiver that wasn't even there. I dunno what was up with him. I know some were saying he was 'rattled,' but I've seen the guy get tagged way more than he was tonight by bigger and better men and he would always just step right back in and make plays so I think it was more than that. Maybe he had to bury the family dog or something.

[jimmypowder]

I beginning to believe that Joe will never be an elite QB like Brady,Bree's,Rodgers..

I am willing to withhold my final judgement until we get a new Offensive Coordinator.

[berad]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1350891329' post='1199931']
Thread ruined by the Ryan talk....
[/quote]

But he's so pretty and applies hair gel so well <3

[ravens88]

the way the texans D-line was playing i dont think any QB would have been effective i mean Joe played terrible dont get me wrong but houston was kicking our o-line around and got into Joe's head it seemed. if he had time maybe a pump fake or rolling out the pocket plays could have helped negate those batted passes who knows. we never changed our offensive play calling just stuck to it despite it not working at all. i mean we gave up running after 4 minutes in the game then we just tried to force the gameplan that wasnt working over and over, which is the defination of insanity. maybe some screens or WR screens something to try to slow their Dline if we are going to pass over and over.

[Sizzlebshu]

Minus Dallas guess where all of these bad games have been, on the road. Why? The no huddle offense. This is their first year installing it, so obviously there are going to be problems. Relax, it will get better as time goes on, the sky isnt falling yet.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350913727' post='1200073']
Minus Dallas guess where all of these bad games have been, on the road. Why? The no huddle offense. This is their first year installing it, so obviously there are going to be problems. Relax, it will get better as time goes on, the sky isnt falling yet.
[/quote]

Flacco did well against DAL. The offense only really stumbled on those two three and outs in the second half.

[Npane171]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350889429' post='1199917']
Yeah, I think it would be stating the obvious to say that Flacco played like crap today. Yes, I realize that he had no chance to succeed between our OL, our poor play at WR and as always, Cam Cameron. But, he played just as bad as everyone else did.

But I dont care about that. It happens, not the first and wont be the last; I can take the good with the bad.

What DOES bother me is that at one stretch of the game, it looked like every single person on the offense, including Flacco, just gave up early in the third quarter.
Maybe that is just imagined, maybe I was misreading body language, but I dont think that I am...I think they flat out gave up on themselves at one point.
[/quote]

Yeah, I agree. I wasn't trying to put it all off on Flacco, and apologize if it seemed that way. The team as a whole played like poop. A couple of missed catches which could have kept a drive alive (Dickson, Blodin). I was actually very hopeful at the outset of the game. We were moving the ball, and actually stopping the run decently. The crowd even became frustrated after we got them off the field the third time in a row. Yet, it was the punt from that series which led to their safety. Let me tell you...it was all down hill from there!! It's just so frustrating to see us work so well throughout the first quarter, then be unable to score TD, settle for FG's, and ultimately just continually fizzle out all the way to the fourth quarter. I was seriously disgusted...

I have no idea how we're going to beat them in the playoffs, if we see them.

[Npane171]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1350913727' post='1200073']
Minus Dallas guess where all of these bad games have been, on the road. Why? The no huddle offense. This is their first year installing it, so obviously there are going to be problems. Relax, it will get better as time goes on, the sky isnt falling yet.
[/quote]

I don't know...I tend to disagree right now. I mean, I agree with the notion that the "no-huddle" is still new for the team; however, if you can't run it in a stadium that you know is going to be loud, why prepare to use it? I just don't understand that concept. Also, while the no-huddle may be new to the Ravens offense, they've had the entire off-season to prepare for it and still the past 6 weeks as well. It's showing no signs, whatsoever, of growth on the road; in fact, in my eyes it's actually dying a bit...even at home. We look confused at times; the offense doesn't even look the same as week one. As the season progresses, we look more inconsistent and weak on offense, whether at home or not. If it doesn't get fixed, it's going to be a tough rest of the season.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1350914041' post='1200082']
Flacco did well against DAL. The offense only really stumbled on those two three and outs in the second half.
[/quote]
I only included it cause the op included it.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1350914596' post='1200098']
I don't know...I tend to disagree right now. I mean, I agree with the notion that the "no-huddle" is still new for the team; however, if you can't run it in a stadium that you know is going to be loud, why prepare to use it? I just don't understand that concept. Also, while the no-huddle may be new to the Ravens offense, they've had the entire off-season to prepare for it and still the past 6 weeks as well. It's showing no signs, whatsoever, of growth on the road; in fact, in my eyes it's actually dying a bit...even at home. We look confused at times; the offense doesn't even look the same as week one. As the season progresses, we look more inconsistent and weak on offense, whether at home or not. If it doesn't get fixed, it's going to be a tough rest of the season.
[/quote]

Its a learning process. Flacco has to learn how to use it in these type of environments to become a more effective qb and to create a more effective offense. You have to roll with the punches before you can land a few.

You can't simulate an away environment at home during the off season so that point is irrelevant.

As for its effectiveness at home, that has more to do with us facing better defenses than it does anything else.