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Purple_ICE 81

Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

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[quote name='ravensfan520' timestamp='1354834361' post='1248336']
When Joe has quick routes he stares at the wr and gets int or makes a bad throw.
[/quote]

Sorry but I just don't see that. I mean he has been known to stare down a receiver, but its not like he gets picked with any regularity. I would even be willing to bet that half his INT's this year have been on balls more than 15 yards down field.

[quote]
Joe is not great at reading defenses... he is a good but not great and may never be great. After this year save your money and invest in some defense and not be afraid to trade up instead of down and get first round talent.
[/quote]

All this I can agree with, well as long as you are still keeping Joe in your plans for next season. I am not a proponent of backing the truck up to his door, but he does need to be resigned. Although Yes, I think defense is the need, and quality first round talent would be great.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354878048' post='1248807']
This coversation goes back a long way. I'm actually mad that they brought Troy Smith up with no sample size and considering he is not Tyrod. SMH But the same guys talking also called Jennings a probowl receiver in four games.
[/quote]
Fair enough. If we're comparing the two I think Tyrod is capable of being more than Troy Smith was. Tyrod is a more dynamic player.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354843585' post='1248519']
The fact being you saying he is of pro bowl caliber receiver who has played in 4 games this year. Makes me wonder if you watch the game at all. Do you follow other teams? Not trying to disrepect you im serously wondering.

If it offends you i will take it down.
[/quote]
If he was healthy all season, yes he is a pro bowler. Injuries ruin a season. And he would not be producing "Torrey numbers". Smith isn't at his level yet
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Flacco has spoiled this fanbase. He's good enough that many Ravens fans have forgotten what truly bad QB play looks like. You do not win as consistently as the Ravens have with a bad QB, even if the rest of the team is stacked.

I dare the Ravens to let Flacco walk. The team will not be better for it. Might as well rename us Vikings South or Cardinals East.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354878234' post='1248808']
Redkins weapons and our's are equal? Im trolling and you have 44 posts? Am i saying that they are outplaying Flacco --------YES Check their numbers and win loss record for rookies,
[/quote]

What does me having 44 post have to do with anything?I switched accounts twice before because I got tired of my old names.And you probably dont even know anything about the redskins weapons or you wouldve mentioned them so theres no point in debating.
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[quote name='HomeoftheBRAVENS' timestamp='1354860682' post='1248766']
Obviously youre just trolling lol.Our offensive weapons and the redskins weapons are even and those other rookies arent playing on Flaccos level so why compare receivers???Are you saying that theyre better or close to Flacco?Also,gb has the best/deepest wrs corp in the league and a beast te.You dont have to know much about football to know that.
[/quote]

Weapons only matter if you can use them friend. Between Cam's play calling and Joe's inconsistent play our weapons are just getting very good exercise out there trying to track errant passes etc. Right now Joe is playing at the level he did 2 years ago and you cannot deny he is making very bad choices in the pocket such as holding the ball to long, taking sacks etc. Granted i know a lot of his throws he could not step into because he had pressure from the front but here is an idea, MOVE !! Enough of the excuses. I hope they do his contract under this years numbers i really do as until he can prove he can be good year in and year out we do not pay him on what he could be and then just keep waiting and saying "This is Joe's break out year". LMAO !! Would love to do a search on how many times that was said.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1354904218' post='1248999']
Weapons only matter if you can use them friend. Between Cam's play calling and Joe's inconsistent play our weapons are just getting very good exercise out there trying to track errant passes etc. Right now Joe is playing at the level he did 2 years ago and you cannot deny he is making very bad choices in the pocket such as holding the ball to long, taking sacks etc. Granted i know a lot of his throws he could not step into because he had pressure from the front but here is an idea, MOVE !! Enough of the excuses. I hope they do his contract under this years numbers i really do as until he can prove he can be good year in and year out we do not pay him on what he could be and then just keep waiting and saying "This is Joe's break out year". LMAO !! Would love to do a search on how many times that was said.
[/quote]
I agree with most of this, he does need to be more mobile. But, Cam is a [b]huge [/b]factor. He is also holding back Joe. Joe will never have a breakout year until he is gone.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354887615' post='1248854']
flacco can be mobile, as shown by previous runs, for some reason he just doesn't do it anymore. No one knows why, is he hurt! Is it coming from above? Is it his own choice?

No one here knows why he doesn't, but to say he is not mobile shows you clearly no nothing about him. Rg3 would still be mobile even if he didnt run...
[/quote]I never said that he wasn't mobile Arnie. For some reason(probably the fear of getting hurt in a contract year)he has stopped using his legs.This really ticks me off when i am seeing running lanes that he can exploit.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1354896034' post='1248930']
If he was healthy all season, yes he is a pro bowler. Injuries ruin a season. And he would not be producing "Torrey numbers". Smith isn't at his level yet
[/quote] Wrong again !!!!! Jennings stats in Torrey's rookie season was (Receiving 949 yards and nine touchdowns) thrown from the best Qb in the league. Torrey's numbers 841 yards and seven touchdowns. 108 more yards and 2 touchdowns, yeah those are Torrey's numbers.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354907724' post='1249051']
I never said that he wasn't mobile Arnie. For some reason(probably the fear of getting hurt in a contract year)he has stopped using his legs.This really ticks me off when i am seeing running lanes that he can exploit.
[/quote]i thought your were implying that. At least we agree he can move, and is Mobile, he just needs to do it more.
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[quote name='HomeoftheBRAVENS' timestamp='1354903106' post='1248984']
What does me having 44 post have to do with anything?I switched accounts twice before because I got tired of my old names.And you probably dont even know anything about the redskins weapons or you wouldve mentioned them so theres no point in debating.
[/quote]Josh Morgan, Leonard Hankerson, Paulsen, Moss, Garcon, Morris Are better than___ Anquan ,Torrey, Jacoby, Pitta, Ray Rice, Dickson.

At least you were right about one thing, there is no need to debate.......lol
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354908478' post='1249061']
i thought your were implying that. At least we agree he can move, and is Mobile, he just needs to do it more.
[/quote]Like i think we both said in another thread. Give him his contract because he is playing scared *(to get injured).
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354908743' post='1249068']
Like i think we both said in another thread. Give him his contract because he is playing scared *(to get injured).
[/quote]

I don't think Joe refuses to run because of fear of injury, but may be determined to pass in the attempt to prop up his passing numbers for sake of the contract; I hope that is not the case. If so, it's working in the opposite direction at a cost to the team.
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[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1354914949' post='1249152']
I don't think Joe refuses to run because of fear of injury, [u][b]but may be determined to pass in the attempt to prop up his passing numbers for sake of the contract[/b][/u]; I hope that is not the case. If so, it's working in the opposite direction at a cost to the team.
[/quote]

i feel this. Joe made a statement in his presser after the Raiders game when he was pulled late. he stated something to this effect; [u][i][b]"yeah! you'd like to stay in there and put up some more stats!"[/b][/i][/u] when i heard that....i was like...no wonder why he's audibling out of run plays and just launching the ball all over the damn field. c'mon man! smh! the ONLY "stat" worthy fighting for is that of being a Superbowl Champion.

~Mili
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354908743' post='1249068']
Like i think we both said in another thread. Give him his contract because he is playing scared *(to get injured).
[/quote]

He is not playing scared. He is playing like Joe. He has always been erratic with glimpses of above average. I do not think the play calling helps and the fact that everyone wants him to be his own play caller. He needs leadership and he does not have it. To do your own play calling is beyond him and only few have.
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I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed, still playing at a terribly inconsistent and mediocre level.

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you AGAIN but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.
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[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1354927459' post='1249304']
Flacco sucks, face it; stop trying to rationalize why and just accept reality.
[/quote]
Reality is that he is the best QB WE HAVE EVER HAD. He sucks? Boller sucked, Dilfer sucked, Elvis sucked. Joe blows them all out of the water. If Evans holds on to that pass, we go to the SB, proving your point to be invalid. He CAN lead us to the promise land. Yes Delhome did that too, but he had elite weapons, if anything RYAN is the next Delohme.
[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1354928960' post='1249321']
I love being right. The mark of a great QB is consistency, anyone can have a few great games here and there; but, that doesn't make them great. Joe and this offense has been the epitome of inconsistent since the begining. And for years, everyone on this forum has blamed everyone but the QB.

08- Joe was a rookie, how high could our expectations really be
09- Joe was developing, and our oline was weak, just give him more time
10- Joe has no deep threat, Cam doesn't know what he is doing, and the oline was weak
11- Joe needs to develop a connection with Torrey, the tight ends, Cam is terrible and the oline lost Grubbs, but he is on the cusp of being Elite
12- Joe is same old Joe, nothing has changed, still playing at a terribly inconsistent and mediocre level.

When will you people get it, the guy is who he is, sorry to break it to you AGAIN but this isn't the next Brees, or Eli; he is the next Delhome or Hasselbeck. Your expectations from the getgo were way to high. This city got so wrapped up in finally having a steady QB that everyone went all in on his greatness, and now 5 years later people are starting to agree with what I have been saying for the last 4 years.
[/quote]
Nothing has changed, we have not fired Cam. Our expectations are high, he has potential. The only people who are agreeing with you are irrational Flacco haters. Oh and btw, he has developed a connection with Torrey, the WR are no longer the problem (though another WR would be nice), he has a connection with Pitta, but what is holding him back is sophmore Jah Reid, who gets a pass bc he is technically a rookie. We have a [b]young [/b]O-line and a banged up D. And are we still 9-3? YES we are. With a Boller, expect us to be winless. Flacco is not a bad QB, or the problem! The O-Line needs to [b]mature[/b], which they will, as a matter a fact they have impressed me for how young everyone cept Birk is. Cam needs to go, and Caldwell needs to have full control of Joe, even Peyton had his bad days.
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mabye im on my own here but id be happy with him developing into a Matt Hasselback. Hes one of my favorite QBs to watch
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[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1354931430' post='1249339']
mabye im on my own here but id be happy with him developing into a Matt Hasselback. Hes one of my favorite QBs to watch
[/quote]
Hasselback had back luck, was a good QB otherwise, just had a sucky team
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354908175' post='1249056']
Wrong again !!!!! Jennings stats in Torrey's rookie season was (Receiving 949 yards and nine touchdowns) thrown from the best Qb in the league. Torrey's numbers 841 yards and seven touchdowns. 108 more yards and 2 touchdowns, yeah those are Torrey's numbers.
[/quote]
Jennings was hurt last year too, with a QB that spreads the ball to everyone, and anyone he can
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Just gonna repeat myself here.

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1354903052' post='1248983']
Flacco has spoiled this fanbase. He's good enough that many Ravens fans have forgotten what truly bad QB play looks like. You do not win as consistently as the Ravens have with a bad QB, even if the rest of the team is stacked.

I dare the Ravens to let Flacco walk. The team will not be better for it. Might as well rename us Vikings South or Cardinals East.
[/quote]I'm hardly a Flacco-lover, but lol @ him sucking.

Part of me wants him to walk just to see what the blind haters say when the team goes 7-9.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354908175' post='1249056']
Wrong again !!!!! Jennings stats in Torrey's rookie season was (Receiving 949 yards and nine touchdowns) thrown from the best Qb in the league. Torrey's numbers 841 yards and seven touchdowns. 108 more yards and 2 touchdowns, yeah those are Torrey's numbers.
[/quote]

That's because Jennings has been getting hurt the last few seasons. He only played in 13 games last year.
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For all those complaining that Cameron is not a problem in terms of hindering a quarterbacks development,

[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/profile"]http://www.nfl.com/p...2504775/profile[/url]

Look at Brees's numbers while in SD. The team easily had way more talent that Joe has now, back then and Brees numbers were not much different than Flacco's now.

Brees then goes to the saints who arguably had less talent than said Chargers but a much better offensive playcaller and his numbers spike.

Here are Phillip Rivers numbers while with Cam Cameron

[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/philiprivers/2506121/profile"]http://www.nfl.com/p...2506121/profile[/url]

While Cam was only there until 2006, again you see that minus the sophomore slump Rivers numbers improved. I will admit though it was not much of a sample size for Rivers

In 2007 he goes to Miami and coaches a 1-15 offense before we hire him here.

Now I know this has been brought up before, and I know the Flacco haters are going to disregard this argument. Im not saying Flacco will become Brees if Cameron leaves, but there is no denying that offensive production and qb numbers improve after this man departs from the team. It is not fair to evaluate Flacco while he has to deal with Cameron.
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[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1354932895' post='1249355']
For all those complaining that Cameron is not a problem in terms of hindering a quarterbacks development,

[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/profile"]http://www.nfl.com/p...2504775/profile[/url]

Look at Brees's numbers while in SD. The team easily had way more talent that Joe has now, back then and Brees numbers were not much different than Flacco's now.

Brees then goes to the saints who arguably had less talent than said Chargers but a much better offensive playcaller and his numbers spike.

Here are Phillip Rivers numbers while with Cam Cameron

[url="http://www.nfl.com/player/philiprivers/2506121/profile"]http://www.nfl.com/p...2506121/profile[/url]

While Cam was only there until 2006, again you see that minus the sophomore slump Rivers numbers improved. I will admit though it was not much of a sample size for Rivers

In 2007 he goes to Miami and coaches a 1-15 offense before we hire him here.

Now I know this has been brought up before, and I know the Flacco haters are going to disregard this argument. Im not saying Flacco will become Brees if Cameron leaves, but there is no denying that offensive production and qb numbers improve after this man departs from the team. It is not fair to evaluate Flacco while he has to deal with Cameron.
[/quote]

It should also be noted that Cam Cameron has coached exactly one pro bowler (Brees), and NEVER coached a quarterback who threw for at least 4000 yards or at least 30+ TDs - oh, and both Brees and Rivers had completion percentages in the low 60s under Cam, and after he left Rivers is now averaging 65 percent in the last 5 years and Brees has done nothing but put up 4000 yard, 65+ percent completions (hitting over 70 twice) and has thrown at least 33 TDs in all but his first 2 seasons in New Orleans.
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[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1354931430' post='1249339']
mabye im on my own here but id be happy with him developing into a Matt Hasselback. Hes one of my favorite QBs to watch
[/quote]

Well, considering he's already better than Hasselbeck was, yeah you're on your own, lol
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1354933316' post='1249356']
It should also be noted that Cam Cameron has coached exactly one pro bowler (Brees), and NEVER coached a quarterback who threw for at least 4000 yards or at least 30+ TDs - oh, and both Brees and Rivers had completion percentages in the low 60s under Cam, and after he left Rivers is now averaging 65 percent in the last 5 years and Brees has done nothing but put up 4000 yard, 65+ percent completions (hitting over 70 twice) and has thrown at least 33 TDs in all but his first 2 seasons in New Orleans.
[/quote]

The man is an offensive cancer who really is only staying here because our team has been so talented on D that the abysmal offensive production he has produced has been enough to get to double digit wins year after year.

He will stay here again this year because several teams have been kind enough to hand us wins on a silver platter patting his resume (SD, DAL, PIT @ PIT, Cleveland @ Bal).

Just to defend these wins that should have been losses

SD - 4th and 29 screw up by the chargers. No nfl team should allow that crap.

DAL - The Ravens gave DAL a chance to win it at the end by not recovering the onside and DAL gave it right back with a missed kick that was very make-able.

Pit - Leftwich almost beat us with cracked ribs...

Cleveland - Greg little drops a td pass that was put right in his hands.

Common link - In all of these games, with the exception of DAL, the offense flat-lined. You can argue KC should be on the list, but that was an ugly game all around on both sides of the ball for both teams. KC didnt give us the game, it was ugly but we won.
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[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1354933867' post='1249359']
The man is an offensive cancer who really is only staying here because our team has been so talented on D that the abysmal offensive production he has produced has been enough to get to double digit wins year after year.
[/quote]

The sad part is that, IMO, more talented offensive coordinators have been fired in the last five years - example, I was absolutely stunned when the Falcons fired Mike Mularkey - he led Matt Ryan to a 4000 yard season in 2011 and a pro bowl in 2010. Now Koetter Comes in and Ryan is on pace to finish with the highest QB rating, YPG and yards he's ever thrown in his career. I really don't get it at all - Mularkey does what he does and gets replaced. Arians leads the Steelers to 2 Superbowl appearances and Roethlisberger, behind a terrible offensive line, to 2 4000 yard seasons and 2 pro-bowls, and gets canned. Cam has had his job for 5 miserable years, with no end in sight.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1354931163' post='1249332']
Reality is that he is the best QB WE HAVE EVER HAD. He sucks? Boller sucked, Dilfer sucked, Elvis sucked. Joe blows them all out of the water. If Evans holds on to that pass, we go to the SB, proving your point to be invalid. He CAN lead us to the promise land. Yes Delhome did that too, but he had elite weapons, if anything RYAN is the next Delohme.

Nothing has changed, we have not fired Cam. Our expectations are high, he has potential. The only people who are agreeing with you are irrational Flacco haters. Oh and btw, he has developed a connection with Torrey, the WR are no longer the problem (though another WR would be nice), he has a connection with Pitta, but what is holding him back is sophmore Jah Reid, who gets a pass bc he is technically a rookie. We have a [b]young [/b]O-line and a banged up D. And are we still 9-3? YES we are. With a Boller, expect us to be winless. Flacco is not a bad QB, or the problem! The O-Line needs to [b]mature[/b], which they will, as a matter a fact they have impressed me for how young everyone cept Birk is. Cam needs to go, and Caldwell needs to have full control of Joe, even Peyton had his bad days.
[/quote]

:feedtroll:

We've already had much better discussion than what's being presented
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