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Purple_ICE 81

Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

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[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1354942651' post='1249427']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This topic changes gears more than racecars on a road course. Sheesh![/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What are we even talking about anymore? Firing Cam, again?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]
Nothing, there is no reasoning anymore. These trolls are as stubborn as hell. No point :gaah: [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/popcorn%20drama.gif[/img] :feedtroll:
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354946903' post='1249447']
My point is still valid, his numbers are Torrey's numbers since Torrey came in the league.
[/quote]
:popcorn drama:
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[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1354942651' post='1249427']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This topic changes gears more than racecars on a road course. Sheesh![/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What are we even talking about anymore? Firing Cam, again?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had .......lol
:268213:
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354947124' post='1249450']
Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had
[/quote]
:)
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354921234' post='1249229']
i feel this. Joe made a statement in his presser after the Raiders game when he was pulled late. he stated something to this effect; [u][i][b]"yeah! you'd like to stay in there and put up some more stats!"[/b][/i][/u] when i heard that....i was like...no wonder why he's audibling out of run plays and just launching the ball all over the damn field. c'mon man! smh! the ONLY state worthy fighting for is that of being a Superbowl Champion.

~Mili
[/quote]

Thanks! I missed his post game interview. If that was his thinking then it answers the question. It indicates that he is feeling pressure concerning his contract and is perhaps making at least some of his choice of plays for personal rather than team reasons. None the less, contracts are what most players go through, if they are fortunate enough to make it that far.

His personality didn't appear to be one that would respond to contract pressure in that way. Maybe pressure originates from home, little is known about the impact that can have. Whatever is going on he has to get it under control and keep the team first or things will only get worst.
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[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1354975652' post='1249544']
Thanks! I missed his post game interview. If that was his thinking then it answers the question. It indicates that he is feeling pressure concerning his contract and is perhaps making at least some of his choice of plays for personal rather than team reasons. None the less, contracts are what most players go through, if they are fortunate enough to make it that far.

His personality didn't appear to be one that would respond to contract pressure in that way. Maybe pressure originates from home, little is known about the impact that can have. Whatever is going on he has to get it under control and keep the team first or things will only get worst.
[/quote]

I think you and mili are reading too far into that quote. To me, it's [i]obviously[/i] a lighthearted joke about wanting to put up stats. Joe likes to joke around.
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Flacco's been pulled multiple times in games, if he (or the Ravens) were concerned with pretty numbers, he'd take every snap.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354946280' post='1249443']
Alot of this is due to rule changes. [b]Cam is as decent as they come at coordinating offense.[/b]
[/quote]
This may break neg records
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Assessing Flacco so far...he is not doing TOO terrible as far as production-3038yds 16td 8int. He is 12th in passing yards right behind Aaron Rodgers Eli Manning. And he is 20th in tds directly behind Eli Manning, Mathew Stafford. I project that he will finish with just over 4000 yards and 23td/11 int. That would be career high is passing yards and surpass his TD/INT ratio from last year that was 20/12. Obviously I am guessing but if Flacco averages 225 yards per game which is very sustainable...he will get to 4000. Its nice that he atleast will finish with a lot of passing yards. Now if he gets more consistant as far as his mechanics go...a slight tweak here...a slight tweak there and hopefully with the addition of a new OC he will be much better next year.

He does sport a completion percentage of under 60% and obviously had a kind of bad year besides his production...but so far this year I would say he is a solid top 15 QB...maybe even lower by the end of the season.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354947124' post='1249450']
Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had .......lol
:268213:
[/quote]
Of coarse techinically Flacco is the best Qb we ever had...and while firing cam will likely help the offense a lot, Flacco does need to work a lot more to become more of an elite passer. And I think its just a matter of tweaking his mechanics a little bit. Working on accuracy and timing, and pocket awareness and more quick of a release. He has decent accuracy and a huge gun, so hopefully he keeps working and gets better.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354921234' post='1249229']
i feel this. Joe made a statement in his presser after the Raiders game when he was pulled late. he stated something to this effect; [u][i][b]"yeah! you'd like to stay in there and put up some more stats!"[/b][/i][/u] when i heard that....i was like...no wonder why he's audibling out of run plays and just launching the ball all over the damn field. c'mon man! smh! the ONLY state worthy fighting for is that of being a Superbowl Champion.

~Mili
[/quote]
C'mon now you cant just make assumptions like that. Now look at the Saints last year THEY were pressing drew brees to get stats. They would be up by like 4 scores and leave Brees in there to throw all over the place-why he finished with 5400+pass yards! They played the colt last year on sunday night football and the score was like 49-7 or something like that and they let Drew finish the entire game running up over 60 points and go for 400 yards and 5 tds. Now THAT is running up your stats. If Flacco wanted better stats or more passing plays he would complain to cam alot moren than he does...and he probably doesnt at all. Just because he audibles out of passing plays doesnt mean anything, it shows that he is in charge out there and sees something that we dont-a better opportunity to make a play. And im not sure if you are going towards him trying to run up his stats in order to be paid top dollar in the offseason, but if you are Flacco could throw 25 interceptions this year and would still be taken in free agency in 2 seconds if we let him walk. He would have no problem making money for another team. So I think you are just constorting what Flacco said too much, he is a humble guy he doesnt care about stats more than winning a superbowl.
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[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1354939380' post='1249410']
Arians got fired because the Steelers owner wanted to change offensive philosophy to a more run based approach. Its not that Arians scheme wasnt working, its just that they wanted to go in a different direction.

I cant explain Mularky. I dont know enough about the Falcons offense to give a valid opinion on it.

I can explain Cam though. It makes sense on paper to keep him

Here is his resume

2008 - Playoff appearance + afc championship appearance with a rookie Flacco. 11 wins
2009 - 9-7 record with another playoff appearance and loss to the eventual superbowl afc representative.
2010 - 12-4 record with a loss to superbowl afc rep Pitt.
2011 - 12-4 record, won the division, swept Pitt, afc championship appearance.

You dont get rid of a guy like that. However, like I said before his resume is very misleading. The offense, I believe, has never finished in top 10 in any yardage category. He has cost us multiple games through stupid decisions (Rice getting 5 touches against Jags). The defense during these years has been nothing short of spectacular making it so the offense only had to do the bare minimum to win games.
[/quote]
Yea that is what I always try and explain to people...he is a terrible offensive coordinator on a great team. Obviously he is the most vannila coordinator of all time and does the bare minimum to win games and is very inconsistant. But Harbaugh, Ozzie, Biscotti are all happy with the wins and vow that everyone in the cabinet-cam included are doing what needs to be done to get closer to a championship. Could our offense be better without cam? ABSOLUTELY! However we are still winning games and Flacco is in line to put up career high stats in yards, and our offense "isnt doing that bad" according to Harbaugh. My guess is that Cam will be here next season. I want him gone NOW let alone next season or the offseason...but that likely wont happen. Hopefully they will look at the facts-cam is mediocre doesnt know how to coordinate and run a balanced offense, and the fact that we could do WAYYYY better on the offensive side of the ball. There is still a chance Cam will be fired but like you pointed out, Ozzie Steve and harbaugh will all look at the resume. Andy Reid has never gotten a superbowl ring and is about to be fired from the most mediocre team in football this season, but will be a head coach 2 seconds after he is fired. He might look feeble or like a bad head coach which I kind of think he is...but his many many wins tell other wise.
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i wouldnt be surprised if we lose out:
rg3 , peyton, eli, dalton/green/the Law
we're bad, just like Rome said, pretenders, its so sad. Joe Flacco sucks.
the redskins hav a complex defensive shceme, peyton will just shred us and their d my devour flacco who will stand there and let them do it, we usually own eli, but tuck and osi will smash flacco all night,
and then to visit cinci with playoffs on the line, we may end up 9-7. what a tragedy....
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[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1354997228' post='1249720']
i wouldnt be surprised if we lose out:
rg3 , peyton, eli, dalton/green/the Law
we're bad, just like Rome said, pretenders, its so sad. Joe Flacco sucks.
the redskins hav a complex defensive shceme, peyton will just shred us and their d my devour flacco who will stand there and let them do it, we usually own eli, but tuck and osi will smash flacco all night,
and then to visit cinci with playoffs on the line, we may end up 9-7. what a tragedy....
[/quote]while it could unfold the way you said, i can't see the leaders on this team letting it happen. We will make the playoffs one way or another.
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The main concern that I have about Flacco and in all the Flacco discussion is is Cam Cameron holding him back from reaching his full potential? I am seriously considering Norv Turner next year if he is available because I do not think Cam is the answer.
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For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1354992967' post='1249676']
Yea that is what I always try and explain to people...he is a terrible offensive coordinator on a great team. Obviously he is the most vannila coordinator of all time and does the bare minimum to win games and is very inconsistant. But Harbaugh, Ozzie, Biscotti are all happy with the wins and vow that everyone in the cabinet-cam included are doing what needs to be done to get closer to a championship. Could our offense be better without cam? ABSOLUTELY! However we are still winning games and Flacco is in line to put up career high stats in yards, and our offense "isnt doing that bad" according to Harbaugh. My guess is that Cam will be here next season. I want him gone NOW let alone next season or the offseason...but that likely wont happen. Hopefully they will look at the facts-cam is mediocre doesnt know how to coordinate and run a balanced offense, and the fact that we could do WAYYYY better on the offensive side of the ball. There is still a chance Cam will be fired but like you pointed out, Ozzie Steve and harbaugh will all look at the resume. Andy Reid has never gotten a superbowl ring and is about to be fired from the most mediocre team in football this season, but will be a head coach 2 seconds after he is fired. He might look feeble or like a bad head coach which I kind of think he is...but his many many wins tell other wise.
[/quote]

To be fair you cant compare Reid to Cameron. Reid is a good coach but has had to deal with 2 problems over the last two seasons.

1. Lack of o line this year
2. Defense gelling last year ie bad scheme but he is an offensive minded coach so yea he needed to hire a more competent coordinator for that talent. One who will get Nnamdi in positions where he can be effective.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354999725' post='1249744']
For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
[/quote]
The problem with your idea is that it contradicts the nature of the Air Coryell system which is to take shots deep outside the numbers to open up the run game up the middle which in turn will open up the deep ball game outside the numbers. Again the prob with the system is what you pointed out, but I'm just explaining why Cam doesnt do it which is smart. If he is running that type of system, than he has to call the plays that make that system work. Its a bad idea for him to run the system, but the playcalling to make the system work is in fact correct. The flaw lies within the system and the plays it forces the coordinator to call to make the system work, not the actual playcalling.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354999725' post='1249744']
For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
[/quote]

Damn. 70 percent of passes under 20 yards? That's a damn good number.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1354992474' post='1249671']
[u][b]C'mon now you cant just make assumptions like that. [/b][/u]Now look at the Saints last year THEY were pressing drew brees to get stats. They would be up by like 4 scores and leave Brees in there to throw all over the place-why he finished with 5400+pass yards! They played the colt last year on sunday night football and the score was like 49-7 or something like that and they let Drew finish the entire game running up over 60 points and go for 400 yards and 5 tds. Now THAT is running up your stats. If Flacco wanted better stats or more passing plays he would complain to cam alot moren than he does...and he probably doesnt at all. Just because he audibles out of passing plays doesnt mean anything, it shows that he is in charge out there and sees something that we dont-a better opportunity to make a play. And im not sure if you are going towards him trying to run up his stats in order to be paid top dollar in the offseason, but if you are Flacco could throw 25 interceptions this year and would still be taken in free agency in 2 seconds if we let him walk. He would have no problem making money for another team. [u][b]So I think you are just constorting what Flacco said too much,[/b][/u] he is a humble guy he doesnt care about stats more than winning a superbowl.
[/quote]

three words....Joe said it!

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355003616' post='1249774']


three words....Joe said it!

~Mili
[/quote]find me the interview, I'd bet my life savings that he said it jokingly
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1354990234' post='1249643']
I think you and mili are reading too far into that quote. To me, [u][b]it's [i]obviously[/i] a lighthearted joke about wanting to put up stats.[/b][/u] Joe likes to joke around.
[/quote]

really? and you know this how Raven?

~Mili
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1355003717' post='1249775']
find me the interview, I'd bet my life savings that he said it jokingly
[/quote]

you go find it! it was after the Raiders game. i've lived long enough to discern jokes brah. bottomline...he said it! it is out there and this is my observation of what was said.

~Mili
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1354990234' post='1249643']
I think you and mili are reading too far into that quote. To me, it's [i]obviously[/i] a lighthearted joke about wanting to put up stats. Joe likes to joke around.
[/quote]

Joking or not, comments come from the top of the conscience mind; besides that was in no way funny.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355003994' post='1249779']
really? and you know this how Raven?

~Mili
[/quote]

1. Joe is not a serious dude. He likes to joke.
2. I used logic and common sense. Joe has never seemed the type to worry about numbers.

Seriously, you're reading way too far into this, like always.

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1355004513' post='1249787']
Joking or not, comments come from the top of the conscience mind; besides that was in no way funny.
[/quote]

It's not meant to be a LOL type joke, just a light hearted comment about stats.

If you guys want to believe that he just wanted to pad his stats, go ahead, but I think you're both making crazy assumptions based on a lighthearted comment by a lighthearted guy.
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I like Joe and all, but I agree with this %100 precent (note Bleacher Report actually made a good article)'
[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1436778-baltimore-ravens-7-ways-baltimore-can-get-ray-rice-more-involved-in-the-offense"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1436778-baltimore-ravens-7-ways-baltimore-can-get-ray-rice-more-involved-in-the-offense[/url]
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1355005298' post='1249797']
1. [b]Joe is not a serious dude.[/b] [b]He likes to joke.[/b]
2. I used logic and common sense. Joe has never seemed the type to worry about numbers.

Seriously, [b]you're reading way too far into this, like always.[/b]
[/quote]

i'm not about to go back and forth over what Joe "meant" by what he said when i both watched it and heard it for myself. smh! so i'll leave this portion of the thread discussion with this.....[u][i][b]many a truth is spoken in jest![/b][/i][/u]

~Mili
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1355005765' post='1249801']
I like Joe and all, but I agree with this %100 precent (note Bleacher Report actually made a good article)'
[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1436778-baltimore-ravens-7-ways-baltimore-can-get-ray-rice-more-involved-in-the-offense"]http://bleacherrepor...-in-the-offense[/url]
[/quote]

I hardly ever read articles from there anymore, but all I had to do was read each of his top points, and I agree with every one of them. Everything he said has been said here by a bunch of posters for a while now. Besides, I think Joe plays better, or at least much more efficiently, when the pass and run are balanced.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354946280' post='1249443']
Alot of this is due to rule changes. [b]Cam is as decent as they come at coordinating offense.[/b]
[/quote]

If you actually believe that we have nothing to discuss. But rule changes have little to do with it - what rule changes occurred between 2005 and 2006 that took Drew Brees from 3500 yards to 4400 yards? I see defenders not being able to hit quarterbacks below the knees, I see several rules that help the defense such as elimination of the force out rule, I see removal of the incidental facemask penalty, I see incomplete forward handoffs considered fumbles instead of incomplete passes, I see no lunging at the quarterbacks legs from on the ground, and no hits on defenseless players, and that's from 2005-2012. None of those rules can make a guy up his completion percentage 5 percent and his yards by over 1000 in one season. In my opinion, Cam is what he is - a guy who's good at fundamentals, but can't coach a mature offense and spread the ball out - which is why we're near the bottom of the league in 3+ receiver sets - Jacoby Jones was in on 10, yes 10, offensive snaps against Pittsburgh, and only 14 the first time in Pittsburgh - he's on pace to finish with fewer snaps, targets, receptions and TDs as our 3rd wideout than he was in Houston last year, behind AJ and Walter. The way to beat Pittsburgh is to spread them out and take advantage of their thin secondary, yet we insist on running 2 receiver sets the entire time.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355003616' post='1249774']
three words....Joe said it!

~Mili
[/quote]

[b]Reporter[/b]: Joe, how does it feel over on the sidelines in the 4th quarter knowing you don't have to play?
[b]Joe[/b]: I don't know, a small part of you wants to stay in there and put up stats but you know you're going to be really running the ball anyway. You're just happy to see Tyrod and some of the other guys get a chance to get in there and play.

And from that you take away that Joe is just interested in the numbers? That's really reaching.
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