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Purple_ICE 81

Joe Flacco assessment and miscellaneous "stuff"

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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1354933316' post='1249356']
It should also be noted that Cam Cameron has coached exactly one pro bowler (Brees), and NEVER coached a quarterback who threw for at least 4000 yards or at least 30+ TDs - oh, and both Brees and Rivers had completion percentages in the low 60s under Cam, and after he left Rivers is now averaging 65 percent in the last 5 years and Brees has done nothing but put up 4000 yard, 65+ percent completions (hitting over 70 twice) and has thrown at least 33 TDs in all but his first 2 seasons in New Orleans.
[/quote]

The man is an offensive cancer who really is only staying here because our team has been so talented on D that the abysmal offensive production he has produced has been enough to get to double digit wins year after year.

He will stay here again this year because several teams have been kind enough to hand us wins on a silver platter patting his resume (SD, DAL, PIT @ PIT, Cleveland @ Bal).

Just to defend these wins that should have been losses

SD - 4th and 29 screw up by the chargers. No nfl team should allow that crap.

DAL - The Ravens gave DAL a chance to win it at the end by not recovering the onside and DAL gave it right back with a missed kick that was very make-able.

Pit - Leftwich almost beat us with cracked ribs...

Cleveland - Greg little drops a td pass that was put right in his hands.

Common link - In all of these games, with the exception of DAL, the offense flat-lined. You can argue KC should be on the list, but that was an ugly game all around on both sides of the ball for both teams. KC didnt give us the game, it was ugly but we won.
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[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1354933867' post='1249359']
The man is an offensive cancer who really is only staying here because our team has been so talented on D that the abysmal offensive production he has produced has been enough to get to double digit wins year after year.
[/quote]

The sad part is that, IMO, more talented offensive coordinators have been fired in the last five years - example, I was absolutely stunned when the Falcons fired Mike Mularkey - he led Matt Ryan to a 4000 yard season in 2011 and a pro bowl in 2010. Now Koetter Comes in and Ryan is on pace to finish with the highest QB rating, YPG and yards he's ever thrown in his career. I really don't get it at all - Mularkey does what he does and gets replaced. Arians leads the Steelers to 2 Superbowl appearances and Roethlisberger, behind a terrible offensive line, to 2 4000 yard seasons and 2 pro-bowls, and gets canned. Cam has had his job for 5 miserable years, with no end in sight.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1354931163' post='1249332']
Reality is that he is the best QB WE HAVE EVER HAD. He sucks? Boller sucked, Dilfer sucked, Elvis sucked. Joe blows them all out of the water. If Evans holds on to that pass, we go to the SB, proving your point to be invalid. He CAN lead us to the promise land. Yes Delhome did that too, but he had elite weapons, if anything RYAN is the next Delohme.

Nothing has changed, we have not fired Cam. Our expectations are high, he has potential. The only people who are agreeing with you are irrational Flacco haters. Oh and btw, he has developed a connection with Torrey, the WR are no longer the problem (though another WR would be nice), he has a connection with Pitta, but what is holding him back is sophmore Jah Reid, who gets a pass bc he is technically a rookie. We have a [b]young [/b]O-line and a banged up D. And are we still 9-3? YES we are. With a Boller, expect us to be winless. Flacco is not a bad QB, or the problem! The O-Line needs to [b]mature[/b], which they will, as a matter a fact they have impressed me for how young everyone cept Birk is. Cam needs to go, and Caldwell needs to have full control of Joe, even Peyton had his bad days.
[/quote]

:feedtroll:

We've already had much better discussion than what's being presented
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1354934159' post='1249366']
:feedtroll:

We've already had much better discussion than what's being presented
[/quote]
Lol
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1354934153' post='1249365']
The sad part is that, IMO, more talented offensive coordinators have been fired in the last five years - example, I was absolutely stunned when the Falcons fired Mike Mularkey - he led Matt Ryan to a 4000 yard season in 2011 and a pro bowl in 2010. Now Koetter Comes in and Ryan is on pace to finish with the highest QB rating, YPG and yards he's ever thrown in his career. I really don't get it at all - Mularkey does what he does and gets replaced. Arians leads the Steelers to 2 Superbowl appearances and Roethlisberger, behind a terrible offensive line, to 2 4000 yard seasons and 2 pro-bowls, and gets canned. Cam has had his job for 5 miserable years, with no end in sight.
[/quote]

Arians got fired because the Steelers owner wanted to change offensive philosophy to a more run based approach. Its not that Arians scheme wasnt working, its just that they wanted to go in a different direction.

I cant explain Mularky. I dont know enough about the Falcons offense to give a valid opinion on it.

I can explain Cam though. It makes sense on paper to keep him

Here is his resume

2008 - Playoff appearance + afc championship appearance with a rookie Flacco. 11 wins
2009 - 9-7 record with another playoff appearance and loss to the eventual superbowl afc representative.
2010 - 12-4 record with a loss to superbowl afc rep Pitt.
2011 - 12-4 record, won the division, swept Pitt, afc championship appearance.

You dont get rid of a guy like that. However, like I said before his resume is very misleading. The offense, I believe, has never finished in top 10 in any yardage category. He has cost us multiple games through stupid decisions (Rice getting 5 touches against Jags). The defense during these years has been nothing short of spectacular making it so the offense only had to do the bare minimum to win games.
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[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This topic changes gears more than racecars on a road course. Sheesh![/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What are we even talking about anymore? Firing Cam, again?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1354933316' post='1249356']
It should also be noted that Cam Cameron has coached exactly one pro bowler (Brees), and NEVER coached a quarterback who threw for at least 4000 yards or at least 30+ TDs - oh, and both Brees and Rivers had completion percentages in the low 60s under Cam, and after he left Rivers is now averaging 65 percent in the last 5 years and Brees has done nothing but put up 4000 yard, 65+ percent completions (hitting over 70 twice) and has thrown at least 33 TDs in all but his first 2 seasons in New Orleans.
[/quote]Alot of this is due to rule changes. Cam is as decent as they come at coordinating offense.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354908175' post='1249056']
Wrong again !!!!! Jennings stats in Torrey's rookie season was (Receiving 949 yards and nine touchdowns) thrown from the best Qb in the league. Torrey's numbers 841 yards and seven touchdowns. 108 more yards and 2 touchdowns, yeah those are Torrey's numbers.
[/quote]Imagine getting neg repped for facts ......lmao
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1354931636' post='1249343']
Jennings was hurt last year too, with a QB that spreads the ball to everyone, and anyone he can
[/quote]My point is still valid, his numbers are Torrey's numbers since Torrey came in the league.
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[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1354942651' post='1249427']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This topic changes gears more than racecars on a road course. Sheesh![/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What are we even talking about anymore? Firing Cam, again?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]
Nothing, there is no reasoning anymore. These trolls are as stubborn as hell. No point :gaah: [img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/popcorn%20drama.gif[/img] :feedtroll:
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354946903' post='1249447']
My point is still valid, his numbers are Torrey's numbers since Torrey came in the league.
[/quote]
:popcorn drama:
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[quote name='CosmicRedPanda' timestamp='1354942651' post='1249427']
[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]This topic changes gears more than racecars on a road course. Sheesh![/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]What are we even talking about anymore? Firing Cam, again?[/i][/font]

[font=trebuchet ms,helvetica,sans-serif][i]~ Cosmic[/i][/font]
[/quote]Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had .......lol
:268213:
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354947124' post='1249450']
Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had
[/quote]
:)
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354921234' post='1249229']
i feel this. Joe made a statement in his presser after the Raiders game when he was pulled late. he stated something to this effect; [u][i][b]"yeah! you'd like to stay in there and put up some more stats!"[/b][/i][/u] when i heard that....i was like...no wonder why he's audibling out of run plays and just launching the ball all over the damn field. c'mon man! smh! the ONLY state worthy fighting for is that of being a Superbowl Champion.

~Mili
[/quote]

Thanks! I missed his post game interview. If that was his thinking then it answers the question. It indicates that he is feeling pressure concerning his contract and is perhaps making at least some of his choice of plays for personal rather than team reasons. None the less, contracts are what most players go through, if they are fortunate enough to make it that far.

His personality didn't appear to be one that would respond to contract pressure in that way. Maybe pressure originates from home, little is known about the impact that can have. Whatever is going on he has to get it under control and keep the team first or things will only get worst.
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[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1354975652' post='1249544']
Thanks! I missed his post game interview. If that was his thinking then it answers the question. It indicates that he is feeling pressure concerning his contract and is perhaps making at least some of his choice of plays for personal rather than team reasons. None the less, contracts are what most players go through, if they are fortunate enough to make it that far.

His personality didn't appear to be one that would respond to contract pressure in that way. Maybe pressure originates from home, little is known about the impact that can have. Whatever is going on he has to get it under control and keep the team first or things will only get worst.
[/quote]

I think you and mili are reading too far into that quote. To me, it's [i]obviously[/i] a lighthearted joke about wanting to put up stats. Joe likes to joke around.
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Flacco's been pulled multiple times in games, if he (or the Ravens) were concerned with pretty numbers, he'd take every snap.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354946280' post='1249443']
Alot of this is due to rule changes. [b]Cam is as decent as they come at coordinating offense.[/b]
[/quote]
This may break neg records
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Assessing Flacco so far...he is not doing TOO terrible as far as production-3038yds 16td 8int. He is 12th in passing yards right behind Aaron Rodgers Eli Manning. And he is 20th in tds directly behind Eli Manning, Mathew Stafford. I project that he will finish with just over 4000 yards and 23td/11 int. That would be career high is passing yards and surpass his TD/INT ratio from last year that was 20/12. Obviously I am guessing but if Flacco averages 225 yards per game which is very sustainable...he will get to 4000. Its nice that he atleast will finish with a lot of passing yards. Now if he gets more consistant as far as his mechanics go...a slight tweak here...a slight tweak there and hopefully with the addition of a new OC he will be much better next year.

He does sport a completion percentage of under 60% and obviously had a kind of bad year besides his production...but so far this year I would say he is a solid top 15 QB...maybe even lower by the end of the season.
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[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1354947124' post='1249450']
Gotta fire Cam cause it can't be Flacco he is the best Qb we have ever had .......lol
:268213:
[/quote]
Of coarse techinically Flacco is the best Qb we ever had...and while firing cam will likely help the offense a lot, Flacco does need to work a lot more to become more of an elite passer. And I think its just a matter of tweaking his mechanics a little bit. Working on accuracy and timing, and pocket awareness and more quick of a release. He has decent accuracy and a huge gun, so hopefully he keeps working and gets better.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354921234' post='1249229']
i feel this. Joe made a statement in his presser after the Raiders game when he was pulled late. he stated something to this effect; [u][i][b]"yeah! you'd like to stay in there and put up some more stats!"[/b][/i][/u] when i heard that....i was like...no wonder why he's audibling out of run plays and just launching the ball all over the damn field. c'mon man! smh! the ONLY state worthy fighting for is that of being a Superbowl Champion.

~Mili
[/quote]
C'mon now you cant just make assumptions like that. Now look at the Saints last year THEY were pressing drew brees to get stats. They would be up by like 4 scores and leave Brees in there to throw all over the place-why he finished with 5400+pass yards! They played the colt last year on sunday night football and the score was like 49-7 or something like that and they let Drew finish the entire game running up over 60 points and go for 400 yards and 5 tds. Now THAT is running up your stats. If Flacco wanted better stats or more passing plays he would complain to cam alot moren than he does...and he probably doesnt at all. Just because he audibles out of passing plays doesnt mean anything, it shows that he is in charge out there and sees something that we dont-a better opportunity to make a play. And im not sure if you are going towards him trying to run up his stats in order to be paid top dollar in the offseason, but if you are Flacco could throw 25 interceptions this year and would still be taken in free agency in 2 seconds if we let him walk. He would have no problem making money for another team. So I think you are just constorting what Flacco said too much, he is a humble guy he doesnt care about stats more than winning a superbowl.
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[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1354939380' post='1249410']
Arians got fired because the Steelers owner wanted to change offensive philosophy to a more run based approach. Its not that Arians scheme wasnt working, its just that they wanted to go in a different direction.

I cant explain Mularky. I dont know enough about the Falcons offense to give a valid opinion on it.

I can explain Cam though. It makes sense on paper to keep him

Here is his resume

2008 - Playoff appearance + afc championship appearance with a rookie Flacco. 11 wins
2009 - 9-7 record with another playoff appearance and loss to the eventual superbowl afc representative.
2010 - 12-4 record with a loss to superbowl afc rep Pitt.
2011 - 12-4 record, won the division, swept Pitt, afc championship appearance.

You dont get rid of a guy like that. However, like I said before his resume is very misleading. The offense, I believe, has never finished in top 10 in any yardage category. He has cost us multiple games through stupid decisions (Rice getting 5 touches against Jags). The defense during these years has been nothing short of spectacular making it so the offense only had to do the bare minimum to win games.
[/quote]
Yea that is what I always try and explain to people...he is a terrible offensive coordinator on a great team. Obviously he is the most vannila coordinator of all time and does the bare minimum to win games and is very inconsistant. But Harbaugh, Ozzie, Biscotti are all happy with the wins and vow that everyone in the cabinet-cam included are doing what needs to be done to get closer to a championship. Could our offense be better without cam? ABSOLUTELY! However we are still winning games and Flacco is in line to put up career high stats in yards, and our offense "isnt doing that bad" according to Harbaugh. My guess is that Cam will be here next season. I want him gone NOW let alone next season or the offseason...but that likely wont happen. Hopefully they will look at the facts-cam is mediocre doesnt know how to coordinate and run a balanced offense, and the fact that we could do WAYYYY better on the offensive side of the ball. There is still a chance Cam will be fired but like you pointed out, Ozzie Steve and harbaugh will all look at the resume. Andy Reid has never gotten a superbowl ring and is about to be fired from the most mediocre team in football this season, but will be a head coach 2 seconds after he is fired. He might look feeble or like a bad head coach which I kind of think he is...but his many many wins tell other wise.
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i wouldnt be surprised if we lose out:
rg3 , peyton, eli, dalton/green/the Law
we're bad, just like Rome said, pretenders, its so sad. Joe Flacco sucks.
the redskins hav a complex defensive shceme, peyton will just shred us and their d my devour flacco who will stand there and let them do it, we usually own eli, but tuck and osi will smash flacco all night,
and then to visit cinci with playoffs on the line, we may end up 9-7. what a tragedy....
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[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1354997228' post='1249720']
i wouldnt be surprised if we lose out:
rg3 , peyton, eli, dalton/green/the Law
we're bad, just like Rome said, pretenders, its so sad. Joe Flacco sucks.
the redskins hav a complex defensive shceme, peyton will just shred us and their d my devour flacco who will stand there and let them do it, we usually own eli, but tuck and osi will smash flacco all night,
and then to visit cinci with playoffs on the line, we may end up 9-7. what a tragedy....
[/quote]while it could unfold the way you said, i can't see the leaders on this team letting it happen. We will make the playoffs one way or another.
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The main concern that I have about Flacco and in all the Flacco discussion is is Cam Cameron holding him back from reaching his full potential? I am seriously considering Norv Turner next year if he is available because I do not think Cam is the answer.
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For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1354992967' post='1249676']
Yea that is what I always try and explain to people...he is a terrible offensive coordinator on a great team. Obviously he is the most vannila coordinator of all time and does the bare minimum to win games and is very inconsistant. But Harbaugh, Ozzie, Biscotti are all happy with the wins and vow that everyone in the cabinet-cam included are doing what needs to be done to get closer to a championship. Could our offense be better without cam? ABSOLUTELY! However we are still winning games and Flacco is in line to put up career high stats in yards, and our offense "isnt doing that bad" according to Harbaugh. My guess is that Cam will be here next season. I want him gone NOW let alone next season or the offseason...but that likely wont happen. Hopefully they will look at the facts-cam is mediocre doesnt know how to coordinate and run a balanced offense, and the fact that we could do WAYYYY better on the offensive side of the ball. There is still a chance Cam will be fired but like you pointed out, Ozzie Steve and harbaugh will all look at the resume. Andy Reid has never gotten a superbowl ring and is about to be fired from the most mediocre team in football this season, but will be a head coach 2 seconds after he is fired. He might look feeble or like a bad head coach which I kind of think he is...but his many many wins tell other wise.
[/quote]

To be fair you cant compare Reid to Cameron. Reid is a good coach but has had to deal with 2 problems over the last two seasons.

1. Lack of o line this year
2. Defense gelling last year ie bad scheme but he is an offensive minded coach so yea he needed to hire a more competent coordinator for that talent. One who will get Nnamdi in positions where he can be effective.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354999725' post='1249744']
For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
[/quote]
The problem with your idea is that it contradicts the nature of the Air Coryell system which is to take shots deep outside the numbers to open up the run game up the middle which in turn will open up the deep ball game outside the numbers. Again the prob with the system is what you pointed out, but I'm just explaining why Cam doesnt do it which is smart. If he is running that type of system, than he has to call the plays that make that system work. Its a bad idea for him to run the system, but the playcalling to make the system work is in fact correct. The flaw lies within the system and the plays it forces the coordinator to call to make the system work, not the actual playcalling.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354999725' post='1249744']
For the record, 18.3 percent of joes attempts travel more than 20 yards in the air. Good for first in the league by almost 2 percent. Brees and Brady hover around 13 percent, Eli and Peyton are around 12 percent. Matt Ryan has the lowest in the league at 10.4. Rodgers just above him at 10.9 percent.

Joe completes under 40 percent of them, which is 4th worst on the league, yet we still insist on throwing them? Cam is top, Rodgers and Peyton second and third, maybe because they don't attempt the, that much so when they do players are more open, as well as them being generally more accurate.

He completes 70 percent of passes thrown under 20 yards. Common sense would be pass deep less, pass short and intermediate more often.
[/quote]

Damn. 70 percent of passes under 20 yards? That's a damn good number.
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[quote name='Purple_ICE 81' timestamp='1354992474' post='1249671']
[u][b]C'mon now you cant just make assumptions like that. [/b][/u]Now look at the Saints last year THEY were pressing drew brees to get stats. They would be up by like 4 scores and leave Brees in there to throw all over the place-why he finished with 5400+pass yards! They played the colt last year on sunday night football and the score was like 49-7 or something like that and they let Drew finish the entire game running up over 60 points and go for 400 yards and 5 tds. Now THAT is running up your stats. If Flacco wanted better stats or more passing plays he would complain to cam alot moren than he does...and he probably doesnt at all. Just because he audibles out of passing plays doesnt mean anything, it shows that he is in charge out there and sees something that we dont-a better opportunity to make a play. And im not sure if you are going towards him trying to run up his stats in order to be paid top dollar in the offseason, but if you are Flacco could throw 25 interceptions this year and would still be taken in free agency in 2 seconds if we let him walk. He would have no problem making money for another team. [u][b]So I think you are just constorting what Flacco said too much,[/b][/u] he is a humble guy he doesnt care about stats more than winning a superbowl.
[/quote]

three words....Joe said it!

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1355003616' post='1249774']


three words....Joe said it!

~Mili
[/quote]find me the interview, I'd bet my life savings that he said it jokingly
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